NickCrash Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Petition to ban all Ubers, gg Come on, just deal with it. You guys have, like, thrice the amount of Mega-threats that we have here. Drill harder and you'll see plenty of ways to counter M-Gengar. (Also no I'm not gonna help you beat us.) Do not provoke me. All 4 rules aim to limit our Nation, and no other. Only exception is Kyogre, and that's also debatable. Even so, I do not ask to revoke them, which would be the best option to "deal with it". Mega Gengar is broken AF, and without Primal Groudon & Geomancy Xerneas, it breaks the competition. You don't even have a solid argument against banning it, because you know how OP it is. You are not going to help us win, and we will not sit idly as our pokemon are taken away, while other Nations have ZERO limits. What I ask for is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Tbh the geomancy ban was a bit much and I'm not even in Gaia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vex Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I actually agree with Nick..Banning primals is understandable because they're just stupid but taking away Geomancy Xerneas was a bit much.. If that is going to be the case, the Pokemon of the same threat level should be taken away too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumble Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Mega Gengar could easily just trap a Pokemon that can't kill it, use Perish Song -> Sub -> Protect -> switch, and simply keep getting revenge kills like that whenever a Pokemon on your side faints. The only ways for us to kill it are: - Burn stall / setting Rocks up for every time it switches (which we might be unable to do if you use Heal Bell / Aromatherapy / Rapid Spin / Defog and is also very slow) - Pursuit it when it switches out (which might not even kill and also means suicide) - Using another Shadow Tag Pokemon (which we don't have) or Shed Shell (which shows how over centralizing Mega-Gengar is if we have to dedicate item slots to one specific item to combat it) - Using Infiltrator (which only Whimsicott gets, and Prankster is generally the better choice) - ...Using a strong enough scarf Dark / Ghost / Ground / Psychic move after Mega Gengar (who already Mega'd) switches in - not even Arceus outspeeds it - Prankster Paralysis and hoping for hax - Arceus lives a Focus Blast when it's Timid, and can take it out with +2 Shadow Claw. - Prankster Taunt, although that doesn't exactly take out Mega Gengar. I doubt we can "just deal with it," tbh, but we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) I know Ditto says that it can't be used in the PU slot, but does that mean that it can't be used at all, or simply that it can't occupy the PU slot? (In which case, which slot does it occupy?). Also, IMO, M-Gengar would only really be fair (considering the bans in place ATM) if The Ravenholts were facing Vulcan instead of Gaia. As is, it's honestly kinda degenerate. Edit: Also, which format is this to be run in? I'm assuming it's Ubers, myself, but if it's AG or something else then it'd be good to know. Edited May 22, 2016 by Roswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exalted Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 geomancy ban was indeed needed M.gengar can be put both ways of the argument as it is possible to counter it with your given types but i am not gonna touch that argument like i was saying for geomancy how in the hell is one suppose to shut it down if i may ask. power herb geomancy on a slower poison type sp attker by the time it attks done game hp ground moonblast hypervoice what is suppose to live that on the opposing team even if they do taking it down best bet is a poison or steel type move by a strong physical attacker seeing xerneas bulk no wait even with scarf none can outspeed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntSys Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) @NickCrash Sincere apologies for the provoking remark.-Post nuked due to nation's request- Edited May 23, 2016 by IntSys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt996 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Mega Gengar could easily just trap a Pokemon that can't kill it, use Perish Song -> Sub -> Protect -> switch, and simply keep getting revenge kills like that whenever a Pokemon on your side faints. The only ways for us to kill it are: - Burn stall / setting Rocks up for every time it switches (which we might be unable to do if you use Heal Bell / Aromatherapy / Rapid Spin / Defog and is also very slow) - Pursuit it when it switches out (which might not even kill and also means suicide) - Using another Shadow Tag Pokemon (which we don't have) or Shed Shell (which shows how over centralizing Mega-Gengar is if we have to dedicate item slots to one specific item to combat it) - Using Infiltrator (which only Whimsicott gets, and Prankster is generally the better choice) - ...Using a strong enough scarf Dark / Ghost / Ground / Psychic move after Mega Gengar (who already Mega'd) switches in - not even Arceus outspeeds it - Prankster Paralysis and hoping for hax - Arceus lives a Focus Blast when it's Timid, and can take it out with +2 Shadow Claw. - Prankster Taunt, although that doesn't exactly take out Mega Gengar. I doubt we can "just deal with it," tbh, but we'll see. Lopunny-M. FO, Return. Dead. I'd list others, but that'd be me being a bit helpful. Edited May 22, 2016 by Cobalt996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumble Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Lopunny-M. FO, Return. Dead. I'd list others, but that'd be me being a bit helpful. wasn't even thinking about Mega Lop, tbh Mega Lop could definitely work, though there's always the danger of Gengar switching out or getting burned by something else, but so far it's our best bet yea idk I think that Mega Gengar might still be a little over centralizing but at least we know something that could potentially beat it :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Gengar has ultimately so many tools to use. The biggest problem imo is Shadow Tag as it guarantees kills. There are many fat things like Weezing or defensive Crobat (with or without scarf) to deal with M-Lopunny. Any defensive pokemon we bring in will be put on a timer and die, let it be normal or fairy. It forces us to use M-Lopunny, because nothing else can effectively deal with Gengar, and even so, switches are allowed on your side. I'd like to remind everyone here that Shadow Tag is such a broken ability, it's only allowed in Ubers. Given 5/6 of each team's mons will be below that, it's only logical that we ban it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironbound Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I support the argument to bar Mega Gengar from use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noir Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Unless it's just been edited in, like, say minutes ago, doesn't the OP clearly state that Shadow Tag is not permitted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojama Yellow Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 its been edited minutes ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Tbh the geomancy ban was a bit much and I'm not even in Gaia. Giving access to Geomancy provides an easy revenge sweep. Send it at an opportune time, Geomancy, Stab Moonblast as well as Psyshock? That decimates The Ravenholts effortlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 U-turn + Arena trap Diglett and M-Gengar gets killed by its own Perish Song. But it's forbidden now anyway :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Maybe it would be better if they were matched against another nation then. It seems like this challenge is a bit unbalanced for those two to fight without limitation on one end or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Ghosts can't be trapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 We might be changing the Ubers entirely as there seems to just be too much to account for to maintain balance. Stay tuned folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odybld Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 I second the axing of ubers tbh. Also Mega-Gengar isn't broken in that format lol. Groudon, Arceus-Normal and Xerneas(!) all beat it 1v1. The good Xerneas set tbh beats 1v1 pretty much all of my nation's relevant mons if at full HP. And almost all of them with brutal ohkos. I can send the set, reasoning and relevant calcs in private because like hell I'm giving out the right Xerneas set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironbound Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 With Ubers, it just devolves into who can kill the other's uber first, which is heavily matchup reliant. Considering that all uber mons are basically on steroids, any of them has the potential to kill off all the other 5 on the opposite team. Perhaps it might be better to not involve Ubers versus non Ubers, mmh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) With the type limitations, you'll have a team advantaged against the other every time. Then the next time they will be disadvantaged. And sometimes a disadvantage can let you surprise your opponent (I'll never forget this monotype battle where my fire team has been destroyed by an ice team...). For instance people say dark/poison/ice has an advantage over ground/normal/fairy, but a well placed M-Diancie (not even a uber, leaving you your uber slot) could probably wreck their team with it's common build As for ubers, there's always ways to beat them. Creating a team that can kill the opposite uber in case you're own is down is part of the challenge. I guess you'll answer that it means you'll waste slots to face a single opponent, but your opponent will do the same. So the rules are fine to me Edited May 22, 2016 by Imperial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted User Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Problem is this isn't Ubers tier. As for Diancie, they could easily run say... Bisharp or something to manage. Ubers are on a whole nother level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt996 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) With the type limitations, you'll have a team advantaged against the other every time. Then the next time they will be disadvantaged. And sometimes a disadvantage can let you surprise your opponent (I'll never forget this monotype battle where my fire team has been destroyed by an ice team...). For instance people say dark/poison/ice has an advantage over ground/normal/fairy, but a well placed M-Diancie (not even a uber, leaving you your uber slot) could probably wreck their team with it's common build As for ubers, there's always ways to beat them. Creating a team that can kill the opposite uber in case you're own is down is part of the challenge. I guess you'll answer that it means you'll waste slots to face a single opponent, but your opponent will do the same. So the rules are fine to me Uhhh no. We're the ones saying Dark/Poison/Ice is at the disadvantage. Only reason there was any talk of us being "better" was due to Gengar-M (banned). Note that this is after they've already had two bans (P-don, Geomancy) And the whole "both waste slots" idea only works on a level playing field; if one side's Uber easily neutralizes the other's, in addition to other team members... well, not exactly something you can just burn slots to kill. tbh teambuilding becomes a lot more fluid when Ubers v others is not occuring. Someone just ends up with better choices, and the amount of banning it'd take to level the field would render adding Ubers a moot point. Edited May 22, 2016 by Cobalt996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamina Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 the power gap between uber and OU is way bigger than OU/UU , UU/NU, NU/PU. So big that whoever uber poke dies first is most likely going to lose as there are few non uber checks to uber pokemon (very centralizing). I agree with getting rid of uber and replacing it with a wild card from another tier to balance out the match ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Agreed. When Avalon were discussing team building it basically came down to this: Uber/OU/4 gimmick mons to try and screw the uber before we use ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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