FE Fates Theory Thread

[Chase]

Hi guys!

Now that Fire Emblem: Fates is available in Europe, and it's my muse at the moment, I wanted to expand on something I do normally with Pokemon games only up to this point.

Open a thread to talk theories.

I'm not the only one who can contribute a theory of course - just be mindful of spoiler tagging so to salvage the innocence of our European friends and those who haven't had access to all of the routes (like myself!) yet.

Anyway, you're going to want to do three things when providing a theory

• State your theory - my first one will be a softie for example, but it would look something like this. Kaze and Silas are Corrin's canonical 'retainers'.
• Provide background on involved characters. Kaze is a member of the infamous Saizo ninja family of Hoshido./ Silas is a Nohrian castle knight who was best friends with Corrin when they were children.
• The most important part - provide relevant evidence that connects your background information to your theory.

Kaze blah blah blah pledges his life to Corrin blah blah blah becomes retainer blah blah blah.

Royal Retainers and Corrin - The Canonical Relationships Between Servants and Liege

spoilers for Fire Emblem: Fates from this point forward. Read at your own risk.

In Fates, both royal families are comprised of a figurehead - and four children. Each member of royalty carries two characters under their wing as 'retainers', or people who pledge their lives to them.

Starting with Hoshido, the Liege-Servant relationships are as follows

Queen Mikoto - The Diviner, Orochi - and the Kinshi Knight, Reina

Lord Ryoma - Ninjas, Saizo (V) and Kagero

Lady Hinoka - Monk, Azama, and Archer, Setsuna

Lord Takumi - the Samurai, Hinata, and the Spear Fighter, Oboro

Lady Sakura - The Samurai, Hana, and the Sky Knight, Subaki

Nohr also has this model...

King Garon - The Fighter, Hans, and the Sorcerer, Iago

Lord Xander - The Cavalier, Peri, and the Mercenary, Laslow

Lady Camilla - The Wyvern Rider, Beruka, and the Mercenary, Selena (Severa)

Lord Leo - The Outlaw, Niles, and the sorcerer, Odin (Owain)

Lady Elise - The Fighter, Arthur, and the Knight, Effie

The only unmentioned "royals" remaining are Corrin - the Avatar - and Azura (which is probably going to be a sequel theory when I get more information!)

The story provides us - through the use of Support conversations - with the inclination that Corrin also picks up retainers. It's actually a very important part of keeping the ninja Kaze as an available unit throughout the entirety of the Hoshidan path at the very least.

So, we know that Corrin's first retainer is from Hoshido - Kaze, brother of Saizo V and a part of the Saizo family lineage.

Kaze's story begins before the events of 'Fates.' - as he is a part of King Sumeragi's convoy to Cheve for a supposed peace conference as a child. Young Kaze notices what appears to be Nohrian troops in the distance, but doesn't know their significance - that is, until it's too late. King Garon orders these same troops to fire upon Sumeragi, fatally injuring him and resulting in regicide, along with the kidnapping of Sumeragi's youngest child, Corrin.

Kaze next appears in the introductory chapters of Fates as a prisoner of Nohr. He is released along with Rinkah, member of Hoshido's Flame Tribe, into the throne room of Castle Krakenburg to be fought and executed by Corrin, who was recently bestowed with the Ganglari - a powerful blade that seems to come from another realm. This battle is supposed to prove Corrin's value as a potential Nohrian royal.

Kaze immediately recognizes the face of his executioner and begins to question if Corrin is the former Hoshidan royal, but decides to stifle the question in favor of a modest introduction, merely requesting that Corrin display their skills. He and Rinkah are defeated by Corrin and their caretakers - but Corrin refuses to execute the defeated Hoshidans due to their status as beaten captives and not live enemies. Garon kills a follow samurai unit, but Corrin then deflects a magic attack aimed at Kaze in direct defiance. After witnessing Corrin continuing to resist their adoptive family, Kaze and Rinkah are spared by Leo through the use of a magical spell that gave off the appearance of death.

This means that Kaze doubly owes Corrin, for sparing their life and for being what he feels to be partially responsible for their kidnapping. The C and B supports are indicative of Kaze giving mandatory distance to Corrin by being rude and abrupt - but the A support features Kaze apologizing for such behavior, then confessing the involvement in the Cheve convoy, claiming that he should have died for his inaction. It wraps up with Kaze musing about how he has served no master throughout his tenure in Hoshido, and after being forgiven and accepted as a retainer, Kaze makes the life pledge.

IMPORTANT: Kaze is also available in the Conquest and Revelation routes - meaning his pledge to Corrin is worth more than his pledge to Hoshido.

...but that leads us to wonder. Who is Corrin's OTHER retainer?

Corrin doesn't only have to fight for Hoshido in 'Fates'. In 'Revelation' - Corrin is able to decline fighting for both Hoshido AND Nohr...and in 'Conquest', Corrin is able to return to his adoptive family and fight under King Garon.

...this would lead us to believe that it's more likely Corrin would be a bridge-character of sorts. With such knowledge at hand, Corrin's second retainer is more likely to be from Nohr than from Hoshido like Kaze.

There are three types of characters that you can consider prime options for Corrin here. The help, or Butler Jakob and maids Felicia and Flora, are very dedicated to their master/mistress throughout the story. Flora is disqualified due to her availability being limited to 'Revelation' as a unit (and being an enemy in the other two paths) - but Jakob and Felicia both are available in all Fates runs. Mounted Loyalists Gunter and Silas are also worth consideration - but have differences. Gunter is partially a caretaker for Corrin - and is supposedly killed off in Birthright (but is alive and a unit in Conquest and Revelation) - Silas however is a very good fit, as he's available in all three routes. Corrinsexuals such as Reina, Anna, Yukimaru, Fuga, again Flora, Izana, again Gunter, and Scarlet have a solid argument. These characters are characters that can only get support levels with Corrin - meaning that Corrin is the only character male Corrinsexuals are able to marry and father Kana in, while females can only marry male Corrin.

Of those listed, Silas has the strongest argument for the following reasons.

• Silas is available in all three routes.
• Silas is a rival to Camilla and Hinoka in terms of investment into Corrin as a partner of sorts, being Corrin's former "Best Friend" while (s)he was locked in the Northern Fortress.
• Silas is of Nohrian nobility.

The story again starts before the events of the game - this time during Corrin's captivity in Nohr. Silas was allowed to visit Corrin and the two became best friends due to Silas' constant attempts of breaking Corrin out of the fortress to explore.

This was irksome to the caretakers involved, and eventually Silas was threatened with execution for his actions - spared by young Corrin by piercing and constant wailing. Instead, the caretakers removed Silas physically from Corrin's memory, and allowed Silas to live with a banishment from the fortress

Desperate to meet with Corrin again, Silas pursued knighthood. Once dubbed, his next interaction with the Avatar depends on the chosen route.

• In Birthright, Silas leads Nohrian forces upon a medical facility known as Fort Jinya in Hoshido- where he encounters Corrin's army. Corrin defeats the suddenly hesitant Nohrian commander and subsequently allows Silas the right to speak on behalf of himself. Silas is able to get Corrin to remember him, and he joins the Hoshidan forces.
• In Conquest, Silas is first on the scene after being deployed by Xander to assist Corrin in their quest to quash the Ice Tribe rebellion. He finds Corrin in the Forlorn Forest with Felicia/Jakob? under duress of Faceless (summoned by Iago).
• In Revelation, Silas commands a Nohrian army and runs into Corrin's neutral forces - he is first to confront the Avatar and after defeat joins Corrin there.

It's not explicitly stated that Silas ends up being Corrin's second retainer - but that's why this is a theory. Silas simply has the most going for him in comparison to everyone else!

[Sheep]

just be mindful of spoiler tagging so to salvage the innocence of our European friends

And Australian!

I haven't actually bought the game yet, I'll do that once assignments are done/exams are over but I'll come back here to contribute once I've played it.

[Ikaru]

In response to Corrin's retainers:

I like the idea that Silas could be considered one as well, and it's explicitly stated that Kaze does become Corrin's retainer through their supports, but I would argue that Flora should count. She's available in Conquest as well, obtainable in the same way, but not any earlier than chapter 19 (but that's earlier than in Revelation!). I do include Gunter, Felicia and Jakob as well, though, because of their personal skills concerning exclusively the avatar. In that vein, it does offer a bit more to your theory about Silas, too. It's a strange case, because before the events of the game as a whole, Jakob, Flora and Felicia - though I didn't play as a female avatar in any of the routes, so I'm unsure if Felicia is replaced by Jakob before chapter 6 as well - forced a fit into the "two retainer" mold (and you can tap their names ingame on the bottom screen to reveal the short description of their character; these directly say that they (and Gunter) are the avatar's retainers). And then Kaze is thrown in and the mold that was already broken is pretty much gone forever as far as Corrin is concerned. With that in mind I can appreciate Silas being included as well, if we're looking for ones that aren't already stated to be so. I liked him as a character and any extra importance on his name is fine with me.

casually edits post a million times

[Chase]

I mean, we could make the argument that Corrin is just the player and that means they are the most important character in the game and that they are gifted with -all- of the extra characters as retainers of sorts...but that's not much fun.

However, I didn't know the game explicitly

...gives the hired hands special mention as retainers. However, regardless of the players gender, the route matters with regards to the mold - otherwise the three service givers already break the two-retainer mold.

I picked Silas mostly because he offers more story rationale and "true balance" than the others and because Kaze is a pretty abnormal case in his own right. Without both of those characters it would definitely not be an argument and all of Corrin's previous caretakers would fit the bill hands down.

The bottom line is, there's a lot of people that give themselves up for Corrin, so I just wanted to theorize about who the two biggest names on that list are. Kaze and Silas are available in ALL routes, and both represent both warring kingdoms. It just wraps it all up in a pretty looking box and it gives us more to look at.

With regards to Flora (and I will admit that I have many, many grueling hours of Conquest and Revelation to log in order to confirm or walk this back) I feel that Silas makes more of a story impact, is there regardless of Corrin's decision, and isn't a character you could glance at quickly and say "Yep, that's Corrin's retainer." by placing your stylus on his name.

That matters though, definitely. Maybe my theory's busted! It was a softie though.

Edit: I'm pretty certain Female Corrin picks up Jakob before she does Felicia in all routes, but I'm not completely certain. Having had one save to test - Jakob joins the fray in Castle Krakenburg over Felicia, sticks with you when scouting the Hoshidan fortress on the Bottomless Canyon, and returns after picking Hoshido in a Birthright route.

Edited with Ikaru in mind.

[biboo195]

Yes, FCorrin has Jakob as their 1st servant, and MCorrin has Felicia, regardless of the route.

[Chase]

Family Feud: Comparisons and Distinctions - "The Baby Brother Edition"

Another softer theory of mine is that these two royal families are more than nearly identical in procedure when it comes to retainer selection - but that each member of the one family directly mirrors more than the age and gender of a family member in the other.

Today, we're starting with the holders of the Brunhyldr tome and the Fujin Yumi - Nohrian Dark Mage and Prince Leo, and Hoshidan Archer and Prince Takumi.

These two characters are essential to the story because their power weapons are distinctly connected to the sacred Yato blade that chooses Corrin following Queen Mikoto's death. Depending on which of the two factioned routes the player chooses, Leo or Takumi's weapons lend their power to the Yato to form either the Grim Yato (Conquest) or the Noble Yato (Birthright). In other words, Leo and Takumi are important for the purpose of a weapons upgrade.

They also share with them a degree of oppositional behavior. Leo is one that thrives on deception, whether aiming to deceive Corrin or his father King Garon. Takumi on the other hand displays his oppositional behavior by being extremely devoid of trust for Corrin and Azura and being a hothead - but the point remains in that both characters can be thorns in both the player and their opponents' sides.

Finally, there's the obvious standing in the family, middle children who both are desperate for some degree of attention from their fellow family members. Leo displays this by acting favorably towards Corrin in order to avoid getting scolded by sisters Camilla and Elise. Takumi just loses his cool regarding what he feels are interlopers (Corrin and Azura).

Remember when I mentioned Brunhyldr and Fujin Yumi? - These weapons are the key to the importance of both of these two characters. Without the weapons, Leo and Takumi are simply the either "cute bad boy" of the royal family they belong to (if you're into that sort of thing...) or "the annoying one." Armed however, both brothers are able to find their own niche in the war effort - something Xander/Camilla or Ryoma/Hinoka would not have been able to do, with the Crown Princes wielding power weapons of their own to boot.

However, where these two contrast is extremely interesting. Returning to Leo's knack for deception and dark magic, Leo is a character that uses his magical abilities to manipulate others. Takumi by contrast, isn't a magic user, and the is where the rub lies. Takumi is someone who game indicates "struggles with an inferiority complex" according to Iago. This weakness allows Takumi to be the opposite of the manipulator - the one being manipulated!

There is where Takumi's possesion arc is seen, and where Leo's ability to play for both his brother AND his father are set and stone.

Edit: Weapons improvements are also brought from Crown Princes' weapons.