Morals on "Reborn Cheating"

[Sheep]

Just to clarify on the 3rd question, you meant hacking rare candies into the game to use right? There's generally a pretty even spread across the answers except for that one, in which it's almost exclusively no so I feel like people might have gotten confused. Either that or I got confused and interpreted the question wrong. Or I guess everyone's fine with hacking rare candies into the game.

[TheJawsOfDeath]

NGL, thought this meant cheating in relation to dating.

Was quite intrigued.

Lool nope.

Just to clarify on the 3rd question, you meant hacking rare candies into the game to use right? There's generally a pretty even spread across the answers except for that one, in which it's almost exclusively no so I feel like people might have gotten confused. Either that or I got confused and interpreted the question wrong. Or I guess everyone's fine with hacking rare candies into the game.

It was supposed to be hacking but I made a mistake since I was using a Vita to make this poll...so god damned difficult. Not sure if I should delete that question or just have people answer a simple question that has nothing to do with cheating.

P.S Removed it.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheJawsOfDeath

[Chase]

Pokemon is an interesting game in general, isn't it?

In the future, (If I even understand Kuro's aspirations correctly) Reborn -will- have a degree of multiplayer functionality. When that's the case, the measures xe has already hinted out would be required in my opinion because some things people do ruin the spirit of the game in terms of fairness. I'm much more opposed to people cheating their way through a multiplayer experience because it's not fair to potential opponents who may not have the best Pokemon possible but who played the game on the straight and narrow.

For now, there's two things that make it acceptable to do anything that could be considered "cheating" in my opinion..........well, three.

1. Reborn is a single game experience using the Pokemon formula of "play your own way." - and that includes going back episodes to breed TMs or what have you. The resources are there, use them.
2. Reborn is a game that -can- be difficult to play for some, and if cheating improves your experience, then so be it.
3. Ame has said in the past that she wishes players would just enjoy her content any way they wished (with again, the warranty being voided if the game suffers unwanted side-effects in the process.)

[TheJawsOfDeath]

Pokemon is an interesting game in general, isn't it?

In the future, (If I even understand Kuro's aspirations correctly) Reborn -will- have a degree of multiplayer functionality. When that's the case, the measures xe has already hinted out would be required in my opinion because some things people do ruin the spirit of the game in terms of fairness. I'm much more opposed to people cheating their way through a multiplayer experience because it's not fair to potential opponents who may not have the best Pokemon possible but who played the game on the straight and narrow.

For now, there's two things that make it acceptable to do anything that could be considered "cheating" in my opinion..........well, three.

1. Reborn is a single game experience using the Pokemon formula of "play your own way." - and that includes going back episodes to breed TMs or what have you. The resources are there, use them.
2. Reborn is a game that -can- be difficult to play for some, and if cheating improves your experience, then so be it.
3. Ame has said in the past that she wishes players would just enjoy her content any way they wished (with again, the warranty being voided if the game suffers unwanted side-effects in the process.)

I completely agree that you are to blame for corrupt files or getting stuck if cheating is the cause but seeing how many players "cheat" or mod Reborn to their liking it would be nice for there to be a quick stickied tutorial for "cheaters" using RPGmaker/Essentials or whathaveyou on how to fix the situation yourself.

[Chase]

I would make that suggestion in one of the suggestion threads somewhere - and I wouldn't get my hopes up. As a former auth, I remember those kind of threads getting struck down in the past for some reason (I think so, anyway, don't quote me on it.)

If I had to guess, it's to protect players from corrupting their game by listening to someone who doesn't really know what they are doing.

I would at least make sure posting that kind of thread is okay before doing so.

[Lostelle]

I've completed the game legitimately numerous times. When I make my videos, I use RPG Maker to teleport and give myself certain things to make the videos more cleaner, such as Max repels, or the items I need for a specific event. That way, I can make my life & videos easier.

I have my separate main file, and some other files that I mess around on, such as an all-Eeveelution run, or using Pokemon you can't get. I feel that if you've played the game as it's supposed to be played, you can do what you want to have fun on a different run.

[TheJawsOfDeath]

I've completed the game legitimately numerous times. When I make my videos, I use RPG Maker to teleport and give myself certain things to make the videos more cleaner, such as Max repels, or the items I need for a specific event. That way, I can make my life & videos easier.

I have my separate main file, and some other files that I mess around on, such as an all-Eeveelution run, or using Pokemon you can't get. I feel that if you've played the game as it's supposed to be played, you can do what you want to have fun on a different run.

Yeah I agree completely. I've played so many Pokemon games that Gen 1-6 starters don't interest me as much and I loathe hatching eggs especially after having to manually create viable competitive pokemon before Pokebank during the early days of X and Y.

I honestly feel after all of that bs and running back and forth on a bike for hours that I have earned the right to having a HP Fire Pokemon without having to breed for absurd amounts of time. I will probably do a Dragon/Fairy Ditype playthrough with Deino,Gible,Tyrunt,Ralts,Togepi and Swablu as my team/starters.

Edited May 27, 2016 by TheJawsOfDeath

[mde2001]

I completely agree that you are to blame for corrupt files or getting stuck if cheating is the cause but seeing how many players "cheat" or mod Reborn to their liking it would be nice for there to be a quick stickied tutorial for "cheaters" using RPGmaker/Essentials or whathaveyou on how to fix the situation yourself.

We've already got threads on how to use back up saves, which is the only reference people are going to get.

Check out this PSA, on discussion of how to use Cheat Engines. We delete tutorials threads for this kind of stuff (with the notable exception of Etesian's breeding guide), and the chances of us making a thread on fixes is unlikely.

If people post in bug reporting with Cheat Engine files, I'll direct them to the back up saves thread, but that's all they're getting.

In terms of adding pokemon for a mono or duo type run, that isn't considered cheating here, we even have a thread for it. Challenge runs are generally exempt from the rules on adding pokemon, so there are no worries there.

[sound of silence]

The only reason I really have a heated opinion on this is due to save file crashing

This is usually for episode jumping mostly because when I see it recommended I think of the high chance of crashing your save file that comes with it. While some episodes are safer to jump between than others, that is where I feel a grey area exists. If you're doing knowing the risks yourself, so be it. But just willy-nilly recommending it to other users without proper warning as I've seen on some occasions is not okay.

Additionally, I suspect this issue is going to become even more of a problem in episode 16, if not near impossible entirely, when the revamped reborn city changes far too many variables to make episode jumping safe without serious effort/multiple jumps. At least once the final product is out that will no longer be an issue.

Then again, I have extreme disdain for x-item usage, and feel dirty if I have to use revives/potions mid-battle.

I might expand my thought on question 3 though. I'm not huge about IV/EV changes but based on have used the pokemon showdown simulator, I would have no issue changing those to my hearts content for when the online battle system becomes a thing, although that is on the condition that everyone gets the same benefit of being able to do so. Effectively, an all or nothing approach to it.

Edited May 28, 2016 by sound of silence

[Commander]

Pokemon is a game that promotes cheating. You get the ability to freely switch mons after a KO, a luxury your opponent doesn't have, an absurd amount of healing items, again your opponent doesn't have, and the ability to freely exchange out mons as you please. Having a difficult game with those factors in place is extreemly difficult especially with luck factors and RNG rolls thrown in. So defining cheating is a gray area when it promotes stuff like that.

As for your other questions, I can't give an exact answer. There should be very little incentive to episode hop but people still do it. Usually this is on the creator's hands if excessive use of previous episodes happens. I really recommend it less now that online features are going to come into play since it could possibly corrupt your files permanently a lot easier just by one event changing or you miss a number. I also don't know how it'll function since Reborn City is getting brand new maps to replace the old ones and there's got to be a ton of them. Episode 15 brought some of the best changes to the game with Pokemon having Egg moves on them. TM breeding is still a thing because the game really lacks TMs in which I even admitted and opened a TM shop to bring use of normally worthless mons. Breeding is just the true debate as it's a tedious system that factors so little how difficult the game is but can break it. I'm against episode hopping and consider it a null game so if you break it, you should suffer the consequences of not obeying the rules of the game. Gotta have some risk involved for episode hopping to discourage it after all.

Speedhacks is generally regarded as a good thing in which it helps reducing grinding time or long tedious moments. People like to speed through games and ones that drag can turn people off. I haven't seen very much corruption so I generally consider it safe. I don't think it's needed as much as it's used to and is almost worthless in Hardcore since you'll only need to grind if you train like 6 new Pokemon due to the excessive experience. People do it for more than just Pokemon fan games so there's really not much to argue being against it.

IVs honestly don't matter and I feel like people are more obsessed with them than they should be. Only IVs that ever matter are speed IVs on fast mons. Offense IVs are nice but the rest is pretty much whether or not you want to hit with 1 more HP of damage or take one less HP of damage. That's a small exaggeration, but it's a stupid trend that should be killed. I can't really judge that well on something that effects the game so little whether it's cheating or not. I suppose I'd say no since I've run practically 0 IV and 31 IV mons before and it wasn't that much different of an experience for me.

Adding, no it should be called hacking, mons in might surprise you but I'm actually against that. Everyone uses the argument "You should be able to use everything you want," and I say no you shouldn't. Let's step out of Pokemon for a minute so that I can give you a better explanation. Let's take Final Fantasy I for example. The game may be easy or hard to you but there's so many options. Now let's say you pick a fighter. The game then decides to put the strongest sword in the game in your inventory. This sword is so powerful it can one shot everything including the super boss. But oh you don't have to use it so it's no big deal. Totally doesn't effect the experience at all, right?

Hacking mons is a necessary evil, I won't lie about that, as some challenges are impossible without it. It's why hacking is a thing. I just feel the community is way too laxed about how they handle it promoting the above example. Generally the best weapons in a game you have to work for and go out of the way. It does hurt the experience when people are willing to give them away so easily. Those unavailable mons are unavailable for a reason. Yet you people are arguing anyone should be allowed to use them without putting work in. I do believe the philosophy "play however you want" but within the boundaries of the game. There's plenty of options to set the game the way you like even without the "broken OP swords".

[Hymdall]

I was reading this thread and a lot of good points came up. Episode hopping for TM breeding/catching axed pokemon(I have not personally tested the latter, so I don't even know if that works), sneaking by that pesky dude in the Department Store, adding in starters for monotype runs, speedhacks, and all sorts of other assorted nonsense can change how you personally play the game.

I will not lie, I did a BUNCH of episode hopping back during Episode 14 to get decent movesets on some of my Pokemon. Does it make the game easier? Possibly, but most likely not by much. For me, it makes me feel like I have a much fairer chance. There are still going to be times when I get bodybagged by a Gym Leader/Team Meteor fight. No matter how well I prepare, if I'm going in blind I WILL get caught off guard and dunked on if I'm not careful. Having more diverse movesets doesn't change that fact, it only gives me countermeasures if I have them in my party. Does this mean I'm a scumbag? Hell no, at least in my opinion. This is the way I chose to play the game. I know the consequences if I screw up: save file corruption and all that. That's the risk you take when you tinker with things like that.

Pokemon Reborn, and by extension fangames in general, are largely single player experiences. Multiplayer aspects exist in some, for sure, but most people are going to play the game for the single player campaign, and nothing else. How you do that single player experience is up to the player. Solo runs, monotype runs, nuzlockes, and yes, even "cheating". What Bob does in his save file won't effect Alice, unless the two directly interact. On that note, if you go into multiplayer with a team of nothing but pokemon with 252 EVs and 31 IVs in EVERY stat, then you deserve to get some sort of comeuppance, because now you are directly effecting someone else's gameplay. Alice could have a painstakingly bred team that still lacks a bit because the RNG is a cruel mistress, and Bob just ruthlessly stomped all over her hard work.

There is a give and take to that last point, however. If both players agree to do what Bob did, then it's fine, at least in my eyes. Both people are on even ground, and now it's arguably a matter of skill who wins that battle. In cases like this, I'm all for things like Hackmons, there's just so much crazy crap you can do when given free reign. So go ahead, do that in your own save file or with someone who has mutually agreed to the madness. But when the multiplayer comes, keep it clean if you aren't in that type of scenario. You never know when you might run into that Alice, you know?