"Ghetto Gospel" - Why you don't know shit about Hip-hop and its language

[Neo]

GHETTO GOSPEL

(Why you don't know shit about Hip-Hop and its language)

Title courtesy of Tupac

Hip-hop is and has always been “A Black Thing” born of Black culture and Black People of the inner city experience. - Paradise (X-Clan, Zulu Nation)

I don't think the above except is any secret. Like every other great American form of music (Jazz, Blues, Pop, Rock&Roll) Hip-Hop finds its roots under the decks of slave

ships and in Africa. Jazz, Blues, and Rock&Roll all served a purpose. The purpose of being the Negro spiritual for the modern day. Each of them a voice for the disenfranchised

Black population of America. Each of these voices gentrified and stolen. Enter the Bronx in the 1970's and the role of the Griot (traveling poet, ancient parallel to the modern

day rapper) is inherited by kids on the stoops of the Ghetto. Black America, yet again, has struck artistic genius and has given itself another voice. The name of this voice:

Hip-Hop

Keep that word in mind. A voice. The people speaking happen to speak their own dialect of English. This dialect is called African American Vernacular English (AAVE).

Which linguists overwhelmingly agree is a language/dialect in its own right due to have a very distinct set of rules governing its usage. It is not slang, nor is it improper English

which is an impression seen in this community and in many other places. This, of course, is linked to racism and anti-blackness.

A speaker of AAVE is no less intelligent than those who speak Standard American English, they can damn well have a greater command of the English language than

you do. Many do. Many display this command over their language along with other artistic merits professionally. You're more than likely familiar with them. They're called

"MCs or Rappers"

At this point, I'm more than certain that those of you that do not have a favorable view of Hip-hop are thinking that I'm effectively calling critics of the genre the dreaded

"R-word" ("gasp how can I be racist? I have a black friend!!"). I'm not. Though I am saying that there is a incredibly high chance that you're unconsciously acting on

anti-black ideals thatpermeate every facet of our society. That being said, if you're able to examine what you dislike about the genre and can still look at the genre as a legitimate

form of art that is not inferior to other types of art, then more power to you. That being said, there are a few reasons that are often cited as the reason for disliking hip-hop

that are without a shadow of a doubt rooted in anti-blackness. Let's examine some of these reasons and why they aren't legitimate reasons for your dismissal of this great art form.

"It's about drugs, crime, fucking women, and money"

Congratulations, if you've said or thought this you've earned the "I enjoy talking out of my ass award". Hip-hop, like any genre has many many many different subject

matters, but you know that. You're just not fond of, and I love this one "How prevalent and mainstream those topics are". Well, guess what, you only have your friends

and kin to blame for that. (assuming you're white) The commercialization of the game that took place in the 1980s was the cause of an internal schism in Hip-Hop

(one that I will examine in depthin another thread). Many rappers opposed the commercialization of the genre for two reasons:

1. It'd take away from Hip-Hop as the voice of Black people
2. Themes of violence and other not-so-savory topics became widespread because it sold to sheltered White suburban audiences

Bear in mind that this does not in anyway make that type of Hip-Hop illegitimate. It is still apart of the genre, and it is definitely still art. This commercialization actually gave

us the great album Straight Outta Compton and many other West Coast classics.

Now, I assume you're asking about artistic integrity and all sorts of shit like that. When you're a disenfranchised youth from the hood, odds are you're not going to shy away from the type of money record labels throw around. Not only that, but you'll find that many rappers, especially those found on many GOAT (greatest of all time) lists will openly criticize this system. Many rappers that don't find mainstream (or critical, or much at all lol) success also criticize and decry those that work within this system. As stated above, however those who do accept money for the type of Hip-Hop that is so often criticized by the uninitiated are not any less legitimate than those who don't. Many simply rap about what they know, because speaking first hand life in the hood ain't easy, and it sure as shit ain't fun. Hedonistic ideas often provide an escape to the grim realities that are ever-present in inner-cities and the hood.

"I just don't understand what they're saying"

Okay and most people can barely understand Bjork, and yet she's hailed as an incredibly talented and influential artist. As I explained earlier, Hip-Hop is more often than not performed in AAVE. If you can't understand the language due to your lack of exposure to Black people, you're not alone. That being said, there are so many resources out there to help you that this just doesn't hold up. Not to mention that listening to the genre (along experiencing other types of Black art which is so painfully underrated despite being among America's best) will help you understand the cultural gap! Hip-Hop provides the ability for non-Black to engage in cultural tourism. Y'all get a glimpse into Black America without having to experience it. (I'll also be touching on how Cultural Tourism can be a negative thing in another thread) People often fear and dislike what they don't understand. Which is why many people are put off by use of certain language in the genre. (Right, Ark?)

"I can't get down to rappers that aren't lyrical/intellectual"

Hip-Hop began as party music.

(August 11, 1973 is Hip-Hop's official birthday)

It may not be for you, but please do not disparage artists that aren't lyrical-spiritual-miracle types, because they're just carrying out the genre as it was. Not to mention, the shit's good more often than not. Like, objectively good. (Source: Beastie Boys)

Outwardly this one can definitely seem much less racially charged, but it definitely can have its roots in the view that AAVE and its speakers are unintelligent, especially as this type of music mostly relies on taking sounds found in the language and giving them a much more musical touch. This is a touchy and fine line, one that I myself am not going to point any fingers towards, but definitely examine why you're not particularly fond (and don't just immediately absolve yourself of anti-blackness. Like, everyone know you think you're not, but read a little and actually examine yourself and the ideas you hold. Perhaps they match up with things I said further up in the post)

Tupac is a perfect example of this, because he wasn't particularly lyrical but was an incredibly intelligent man who got his ideas across. Tupac embodied Hip-Hop like few other have or ever will, and I personally believe that anyone who can understand Tupac's message and just how he went about things will understand the genre AND everything I've spoken about here today.

In conclusion, Hip-Hop is an incredible art form, one I would say is among the best ever conceived. If you find yourself disliking the genre, cool, that's fine, however, examine just why it is you dislike the genre, and ensure that you're not allowing unconscious biases to get in the way. Hip-Hop is a beautiful thing, and even if you don't like it, you can recognize it as art and respect it as such.

Thanks for your time today

One Love - Erick

Sources for shit along with good reads:

http://www.pbs.org/speak/words/sezwho/hiphop/reprint/

http://www.hawaii.edu/satocenter/langnet/definitions/aave.html

http://genius.com/Lewis-lister-chapter-1-introduction-lyrics

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/002792.html

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JYxHkHJXwZcJ:blackagendareport.com/content/hip-hop-and-%25E2%2580%259Canti-blackness-antagonism%25E2%2580%259D+&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://harvardpolitics.com/books-arts/politics-race-rap/

List of Essential Hip-Hop albums sorted by region

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ewEzXRHj8LGvUB3g9QbnIK_m89I2Q5Y2LzsgqKOG6Xg/edit#gid=0

[Flux]

That was quite an interesting read, I have to say. There were some parts I skimmed, but I plan to go back and read them over when I'm not so tired. I believe I got the gist of most of it though. You pretty much summed up the way I view hip hop: it's not for me, but I see it as a legitimate form of music that others are into, the same way a lot of people aren't into the heavier alt rock I like. That being said, I do recognize myself as falling victim to a few of the subconscious stereotypes about the genre, and this definitely helped make the issue more prevalent to me. Solid read overall. Out of curiosity, do you have any plans to do updates on this about any other issues or topics relating to hip-hop, or will those be saved for your other thread?

[Neo]

I haven't completely decided. This thread in particular is mainly about criticisms of the genre and examining them. I do hope to compile a list of posts/threads I plan on writing in the OP of the Album of the Week/General Knowledge thread.

[Chase]

You know - as someone who enjoys a lot of rap and hip-hop and often stays away from it due to White America's tainting of the genre, I don't think white people are -solely- to blame for mainstream rap's messages. That being said, I've always been acknowledging that record labels have a lot of sway over artists and therefore they often have control of what the artists produce - so I can't outright -DENY- such fact either.

For example, there are a few record labels out there headed by African Americans. Such list includes Rick Ross, Birdman and Lil Wayne, Drake, T.I, and Kanye West.

All of those artists-turned-owners are fantastic, and no doubt sign people that have great messages and music, but those names are some of the biggest in the modern industry, particularly Drake and Kanye when it comes to mainstream production, and the only thing that gets played on the radio is "Sex, Money, and Drugs."

From there I guess I can blame radio stations and people who have a poor taste in music, but that isn't held down by solely white people either.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

Honestly... I'm really glad your making these topics about this genre of music. It's been very enlightening and showing me that perhaps yea... maybe I've even done some of these things in the past or, that I've not myself gone out of my way to maybe understand something as much as I could. However, this really makes me want to learn and want to understand now that I see it and now that you know, I'm seeing just how much there is too it. I'll admit... I definitely have the problem where I don't exactly understand the best and it has effected my personal enjoyment of the genre, however, I still respect the art form immensely as I do with any type of art.

A lot of these topics and actually listening through the album that you used for the first week in your other thread, really made it clear to me that perhaps my lack of enjoyment for the genre, came from an unwillingness before to find ways to understand it. While as an artform I didn't dismiss it... I did dismiss trying to truly learn. I did dismiss trying to go out of my way to achieve some sort of understanding to maybe see if that was the reason i didn't care for the genre myself. It's been you know... made super clear to me just how much I don't know. How much of a gap that's just missing in my knowledge. And it makes it clear to me how much more I, would like to try and understand. I love all forms of art, and I definitely want to understand the reason people love the forms of art they do. There has been plenty of genres in music they I used to dislike, but... as I made myself listen to them more and more I realized it was because I truly disliked them... it was because I didn't understand. Not understanding something... is so easy to confuse for not liking something I feel. And I know I fallen to this trap before. ((Way too much. WAAAY TOO MUCH.)) and as a result I know that in some places I'm definitely ignorant. But, rather than be hostile about it, rather than devalue it... say it's not art, because it's not something I understand, I'd never do that. Because my opinion doesn't change how great something is, and what it stands for and what it means. My voice isn't more important then somebody else's on a matter, who am I to say what is art and what isn't? Rather than dismiss, I'd rather understand. I rather try and empathize with someone than just devalue them. I want to understand why they love a genre, why it means so much to them.

So yea, I'm really glad that you are doing these threads Erick. It kinda has shown me just how little I know... and how even if it was in part unintentionally, I've definitely overlooked something almost strictly due to not understanding it. And, well, that's not something I want to do. ((it was as I was listening to "Illmatic" that it was made... so clear to me. Since I recognized that I was having issues understanding the songs etc. so, I went to find the lyrics to read along while I listened. I actually listened to the whole thing twice as a result, first without, the second time with them available for me to read. I still found it a bit tough to follow, but... in that, I found I want to understand this genre more than I ever have. I used to just look past it, saying I was uninterested. But... I think I only was because... I didn't understand. I can now see, that... I'm definitely missing out on what are some great works, that are jsut out of my grasp of understanding and it drives me to get that understanding.))

I definitely need to sleep so I'll have to peruse the sources and the articles you provided at a later time, but really, thanks for doing something to promote understanding this genre, Thanks for putting these thing out there. Cause well, I didn't know I'd be at a point where I'm want to really dive in and understand this genre as much as I do know. Hell, I already know it's going to be tough for me cause I'm starting from the bottom... or basically no understanding and working towards a working one. But... I think I'm willing to try it now. And however and whatever you decide to do to continue this, whatever threads etc you do... I'll be there.

[Shamitako]

K, so, I read all that and it was pretty interesting, but there's one thing that bugs me a lot before I get to an overall response

It may not be for you, but please do not disparage artists that aren't lyrical-spiritual-miracle types, because they're just carrying out the genre as it was. Not to mention, the shit's good more often than not. Like, objectively good. (Source: Beastie Boys)

This entire thread is about how hip-hop is art, right? Well, in art, there's no such thing as something being objectively good and the fact that you chose this wording just doesn't feel right

NEways, as with any musical art form, I don't think hip-hop should be above lyrical criticism. You're right when you say that not all hip-hop is about crime and drugs, but when it is, people do have a right to criticize that it is. Personally, I more dislike how the lyrics are sung than what the lyrics actually are. I find the African American ghetto accent to be very displeasing when put in musical form. That doesn't mean I hate the people with that accent or even the accent itself, I just don't enjoy it as music

I don't really have much issue understanding it, at least no more than I do any other type of music, thanks to hanging around my cousins a good bit these past few years. If you'd asked me four years ago I would have thought most hip-hop was gibberish, but I've gotten to see my cousins a lot more lately so it's become much more understandable now

[Neo]

First and foremost, thanks for the responses.

For example, there are a few record labels out there headed by African Americans. Such list includes Rick Ross, Birdman and Lil Wayne, Drake, T.I, and Kanye West.

All of those artists-turned-owners are fantastic, and no doubt sign people that have great messages and music, but those names are some of the biggest in the modern industry, particularly Drake and Kanye when it comes to mainstream production, and the only thing that gets played on the radio is "Sex, Money, and Drugs."

From there I guess I can blame radio stations and people who have a poor taste in music, but that isn't held down by solely white people either.

Right, though a good think to keep in mind is that even though these rappers may be record label owners, many of them have to answer to bigger labels/distributors

@Huk

I'm glad that you've taken something away from these threads. I appreciate your openness to understanding a music/culture different than your own.

K, so, I read all that and it was pretty interesting, but there's one thing that bugs me a lot before I get to an overall response

This entire thread is about how hip-hop is art, right? Well, in art, there's no such thing as something being objectively good and the fact that you chose this wording just doesn't feel right

NEways, as with any musical art form, I don't think hip-hop should be above lyrical criticism. You're right when you say that not all hip-hop is about crime and drugs, but when it is, people do have a right to criticize that it is. Personally, I more dislike how the lyrics are sung than what the lyrics actually are. I find the African American ghetto accent to be very displeasing when put in musical form. That doesn't mean I hate the people with that accent or even the accent itself, I just don't enjoy it as music

I don't really have much issue understanding it, at least no more than I do any other type of music, thanks to hanging around my cousins a good bit these past few years. If you'd asked me four years ago I would have thought most hip-hop was gibberish, but I've gotten to see my cousins a lot more lately so it's become much more understandable now

While art is seen as something that is purely subjective, there are definitely cases where music can be and is objectively good based off of musicality alone. No one would argue that Beethoven's 9th
isn't good. They may or may not argue if they like it or not, which is the case with all music, but music is definitely an art where things can have an objective quality to them.

I'm gonna ask you to examine the rest of your post before giving it a proper response.

[Shamitako]

Thing is, when it comes to art, whether or not you like something is half of the point. Art is expression, but art is also entertainment. As an expression, even the most "objectively bad" things are a positive, because expressing oneself is never bad. But as entertainment, what matters is what the one looking to be entertained finds enjoyable

I see nothing to examine. I spoke what I believed to be the truth and find no issue with it

I don't think that the parts of hip-hop that focus on things that people find distasteful should be above being criticized for that focus. I won't criticize them for it, I mean, this is one of my favorite songs. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed that criticism

I don't like the way an AAVE accent sounds when put into musical form, if that's anti-black then fine, I'll be anti-black. It doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy it. And I don't feel like changing how I feel about the singing just because someone tells me it's part of a negative social bias. I would rather be racist than lie to myself

And I do largely understand AAVE because my cousins (well, technically mother's cousins and their kids) on my mother's father's side speak it and I've spent a lot of time with them over the past few years. I have no trouble understanding my schoolmates (my school is about 60% inner-city black kids)

[Cowtao]

I already knew most of this. Hip Hop is just as important as every other genre was before. Like Metal, both have turbulent histories and a wide pan of media, critics, and misinformed individuals who perceive music as something more closed.

Fun fact, in I believe in 1989, the Emmys had their first category awards for Hip Hop. The winner selected was DJ Jazzy Jeff and The Fresh Prince. Now this became an issue for several reasons. The awards ceremony for Hip Hop was not televised deaming the genre "not important enough" for television. Because of this, both Jeff and Will Smith led a protest to the event. There were also several more qualifies rappers at that time that deserve the award more for their influence. (Early N.W.A, Run DMC, Public Enemy).

No disrespect towards those successful in that field, but there are various other faces of hip hop that tell different tales and flavors of Hip Hop. (The Roots, Spose, Die Antwoord, A.F.R.O., Tyler The Creator, Schaffer The Darklord) Hip Hop has been demoted because it's perceived as Gangster Rap. Realistically, what Hip Hop was before wasn't always so hard. Look past what you see and learn to really explore a genre before writing off an entire genre of music.

Also fuck Björk and her Swan Dress.

[Skeleton]

if that's anti-black then fine, I'll be anti-black. It doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy it. And I don't feel like changing how I feel about the singing just because someone tells me it's part of a negative social bias. I would rather be racist than lie to myself

the fuck is this

[Shamitako]

the fuck is this

The truth

[Deleted User]

If you don't like the music, all you have to do is say "I don't like the music." Perhaps say why. Perhaps you find it in many cases to be unintelligible. There are white rappers who sound moronic in their own write. Yes Hip-Hop is primarily an art form by Black individuals, but I think saying you dislike the way black people sound is a poorly worded generalization. I could show you plenty of more intelligent music that might change your mind. A large part of the negative perception towards hip hop comes from the commercialization by the big businesses backing it who push that sort of music into the lime light. In many cases we've come to accept music that is rather unintelligible. This has started to turn back around slightly in the past couple years with artists such as Drake and Kendrick Lamar overtaking some others like Rick Ross and Lil Wayne.

No I'm not trying to chastise you for what you're saying, I think you're still stuck behind the 'Hip-Hop Stereotype' wall, so to speak. There are songs for everyone expressing each and every emotion you could think of delivered in a wide multitude of ways.

[Shamitako]

If you don't like the music, all you have to do is say "I don't like the music." Perhaps say why. Perhaps you find it in many cases to be unintelligible. There are white rappers who sound moronic in their own write. Yes Hip-Hop is primarily an art form by Black individuals, but I think saying you dislike the way black people sound is a poorly worded generalization. I could show you plenty of more intelligent music that might change your mind. A large part of the negative perception towards hip hop comes from the commercialization by the big businesses backing it who push that sort of music into the lime light. In many cases we've come to accept music that is rather unintelligible. This has started to turn back around slightly in the past couple years with artists such as Drake and Kendrick Lamar overtaking some others like Rick Ross and Lil Wayne.

No I'm not trying to chastise you for what you're saying, I think you're still stuck behind the 'Hip-Hop Stereotype' wall, so to speak. There are songs for everyone expressing each and every emotion you could think of delivered in a wide multitude of ways.

I mean, I don't like white rappers either, but that's a different discussion. This discussion is very clearly written in terms of African American, AAVE-speaking artists

Part of the foundation of the discussion is the usage of AAVE in hip-hop. And I don't like the accent that accompanies the dialect when it's put to music. If you can point me to a black hip-hop artist who speaks AAVE but has a southern accent, a German accent, or even better an Australian accent I'll gladly give them a listen, and may even enjoy their work. I actually quite like the music of hip-hop, but it feels wrong to me to listen to instrumentals of songs that began with vocals as that's taking away a part of the artwork, thus I do not listen to hip-hop

I also already stated that I don't find it unintelligible, and definitely don't find it unintelligent. Hip-hop is by far one of the deepest forms of musical art about, I never disputed that

And again, I personally have no issue with the "mainstream" hip-hop being about sex and drugs (FTW is about drugs and rape and I still love it in spite of, nay, even because of, the lyrics), but I do think people should be allowed to dislike the parts of hip-hop that are about this. I understand that part of the point of the thread is that hip-hop isn't entirely about these concepts and not to pass off the entire genre because of them, but it feels like when saying not to pass off the genre because of distasteful lyrics in some songs it's often also stated that disliking songs with distasteful lyrics somehow makes you a less competent or worthy listener

[Neo]

If you don't like the music, all you have to do is say "I don't like the music." Perhaps say why. Perhaps you find it in many cases to be unintelligible. There are white rappers who sound moronic in their own write. Yes Hip-Hop is primarily an art form by Black individuals, but I think saying you dislike the way black people sound is a poorly worded generalization. I could show you plenty of more intelligent music that might change your mind. A large part of the negative perception towards hip hop comes from the commercialization by the big businesses backing it who push that sort of music into the lime light. In many cases we've come to accept music that is rather unintelligible. This has started to turn back around slightly in the past couple years with artists such as Drake and Kendrick Lamar overtaking some others like Rick Ross and Lil Wayne.

No I'm not trying to chastise you for what you're saying, I think you're still stuck behind the 'Hip-Hop Stereotype' wall, so to speak. There are songs for everyone expressing each and every emotion you could think of delivered in a wide multitude of ways.

Many rappers break outta they're out box every so often.

Rick Ross' tape Black Dollar is a great example of this, We gon' make it in particular.

Thing is, when it comes to art, whether or not you like something is half of the point. Art is expression, but art is also entertainment. As an expression, even the most "objectively bad" things are a positive, because expressing oneself is never bad. But as entertainment, what matters is what the one looking to be entertained finds enjoyable

I see nothing to examine. I spoke what I believed to be the truth and find no issue with it

I don't think that the parts of hip-hop that focus on things that people find distasteful should be above being criticized for that focus. I won't criticize them for it, I mean, this is one of my favorite songs. But that doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed that criticism

I don't like the way an AAVE accent sounds when put into musical form, if that's anti-black then fine, I'll be anti-black. It doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy it. And I don't feel like changing how I feel about the singing just because someone tells me it's part of a negative social bias. I would rather be racist than lie to myself

And I do largely understand AAVE because my cousins (well, technically mother's cousins and their kids) on my mother's father's side speak it and I've spent a lot of time with them over the past few years. I have no trouble understanding my schoolmates (my school is about 60% inner-city black kids)

I admire you for sticking to your guns, even if they are offensive to myself and my people. That being said, I feel as though saying "I don't like the way AAVE sounds musically" is not only anti-black, but also ignores the fact that like with any sort of accent and voice, each person has a different one.

You've got New York soundin' guys like the Wu-Tang Clan

You've got the diverse voices of the South

Andre 3000's 'gentlemanly' Southern voice, Pimp C's long slow drawl, BunB's very Houston accent, Big Boi's Georgian accent

The Midwest with it's huge vocal variety

and the West Coast which also features many diverse vocal types

Tupac grew up on the East Coast, but developed his art in the West

And that's not even mentioning places like Miami, Philly, New England each with their own type of voice and way of speaking. To say that you don't like the way AAVE/Black Accents sound when used musically is a huge generalization, and frankly ignorant and racist, fam. I urge you to at the very least understand why that's a problematic statement, even if you can't find enjoyment from the music being put out.

Edit:

but it feels like when saying not to pass off the genre because of distasteful lyrics in some songs it's often also stated that disliking songs with distasteful lyrics somehow makes you a less competent or worthy listener

Hip-Hop is a genre that relies often on metaphor, subtext, and prior knowledge. Lyrics are and often times will be used to represent other things. Many times, and I can legit make a huge list, drugs, sex, and crime are all looked upon negatively but from looking at the song on the surface you wouldn't know that. Hip-Hop is very much a genre that challenges the listen to listen and not just hear the words coming from the MC's mouth.

[Shamitako]

Very well, let me rephrase it slightly

I have yet to hear an AAVE speaker who has an accent that I enjoy alongside music and thus choose to not spend my time listening to each and every hip-hop artist in case one just might happen to have an accent I like

In other words I, "write off the genre" because I don't not like the accents of the artists

EDIT: Alright, I will concede that people disliking hip-hop because they feel the lyrics glorify sex and drugs may be unfounded in their thinking (actually, NL has talked about that in several Bind of Isaac episodes). But there are also people who just dislike the discussion of the topic at all entering into their entertainment and it feels like you're trying to say it's wrong for those people to dislike the musical pieces which do

[Felicity]

So, AAVE is a dialect that then gets commonly merged with other dialects within music?

[Deleted User]

Australian accent? His accent isn't too noticeable but he's australian.

EDIT also added a british one in 2nd spoiler. Another 3rd song I think is more likely to be to your liking as well.

Hip Hop has something for everyone, you just need to find it. Then over time you'll broaden your horizons.

[Neo]

So, AAVE is a dialect that then gets commonly merged with other dialects within music?

It's a dialect that, as to be expected in a country so large, has small regional differences. These regional differences aren't big enough to be dialects themselves.

[Felicity]

I think the biggest reason I don't listen to Hip-hop is that it doesn't feel like background music to me. Like, I'm sat there thinking I need to focus and listen to the lyrics to get the general idea of what the artist's trying to get across. Conversely, another genre I listen to is Vocaloid. I don't speak a lick of japanese so I don't have to care about the lyrics whatsoever and can listen to it on end for ages at a time. Same goes for instrumental music because obviously there are no lyrics.

That said, I rarely listen to music for the sake of it. I listen to music whilst doing something else, playing a game, reading or studying. Things that kinda need my attention. I acknowledge that I'm probably missing out but, well, there's a lot of stuff in the world that I am going to miss out on, a lot of it just as accessible as this genre of music. Maybe I'll start getting into it sometime in the future, I've not got any reason not to do so.

[Chevaleresse]

It's a dialect that, as to be expected in a country so large, has small regional differences. These regional differences aren't big enough to be dialects themselves.

so are the differences significant or not? Because you just got done saying they were

(I'll write out an actual response to this thread later)

[Combat]

To be honest, I've had very, very little contact with Hip-Hop as a culture, so I really don't have any real opinions on it. I grew up in a very white bread community (A graduating class of forty basically seals the deal) leading me to not really have any experience with it. The closest I've ever gotten to anything like Hip-Hop would probably be some of the earlier Kanye West albums, which really isn't much in the scheme of things. I will say however, is that I'm not much of a fan of any music with lyrics. For some reason, once I learn the lyrics by heart to a song, I lose interest in it, which is why I usually listen to orchestra or video game soundtracks. I respect Hip-Hop artists, and am sure that its better than ninety percent of the crap that on the radio, but seeing as my sample size in miniscule, I can't really throw in my two cents.

I have heard enough country music to know that I hate that genre though.

[ZEL]

I'll be watching the Learning thread, it looks like it's shaping up to be a very interesting place down the road.

I can say straight away that I know very little (read: nothing) about Hip Hop culture. It's really easy to get into a territory of negative stereotypes - I doubt I have to tell you about the condescending attitude against Hip Hop that can be found in the Metal community.

Personally, I think that rap sounds great as far as the lyrical style is concerned (I mean, hey, as someone who loves the fuck outta death growls, "hard to understand" is the least of my problems); the reason I've never gotten into Hip Hop as a genre is that the instrumentals are usually boring to me.

Listening to some of what you have linked here, I can see why the songs sound the way they do, and I'm certain that the instrumentals do a lot to compliment the vocals. I mean, rap is very much about the rythm, after all, isn't it?

But I find it hard to immerse myself in the music as a result. Often it sounds too repetitive to me. That doesn't make it sound bad, it just means it's the type of music I'd rather have playing in the background while I do other stuff, rather than something I sit down and focus on.

I don't know how much sense my words make (sometimes my English really does suck), but at the same time I'm pretty sure you can guess what I mean, considering I already mentioned Metal earlier, which treats its instrumentals quite differently from Hip Hop.

So tl;dr I find myself enjoying the sound of the language, but as far as my taste goes, I tend to gravitate towards music with more 'bombastic' instrumentals.

That said, like I said I wanna keep an eye on that other thread of yours. Maybe I'll find some things I'll enjoy that way.

Even if I don't, the historical aspect intrigues me a lot, so the more of that you can fit into your posts, the better. It's very interesting, to say the least.

[Neo]

so are the differences significant or not? Because you just got done saying they were

(I'll write out an actual response to this thread later)

Musically the regions have significant differences, linguistically they do not have significant differences.

@Medic

That's more than fair. Thanks for taking time to contribute to the thread

@Ama

Keep an eye on the other threads and I'll see if I can post tracks with beats that might interest you

[Busti]

Yet informative, I found the tone of this thread to be too condescending to enjoy reading. It is like you are on the defensive side after just having been offended. All over, you write as if the reader has a certain opinion, which is unpleasant.

I do prefer not to listen to much hiphop. While listening to DMX, Eminem and the like is amusing, a lot of the genre is abrasive.

[Garnet.]

I actually didnt know AAVE was a thing and that's nice to know, but i have to say I agree with the guy above me. It sounds really condescending as a read(at least at the beginning), which kind of turns me off. Other than that it was pretty informational. i still cant get down to a lot of the old school hip hop (with a few exceptions. i like the lyrical content but i do not like the beats at all) but i enjoy lyrical content that makes me double take. i cant say i really thought about music in depth like that, like the underlying tones and metaphors using sex and drugs

i appreciate you making these topics so people can learn about our people and history though