Talonflame the Murder God? See for yourself

[Timber Dragon]

Attached below is a previous save from my bird-themed run, taking place right before the fight with Samson.

You'll notice you're standing right in front of him (how convenient!). You'll also notice the party's lead birb is the alleged fiery murder god known as Talonflame, graciously given to me by the nice folks in the Request-a-Mon thread for the purposes of this run.

Despite being considered OP, my own Talonflame has not lived up to the hype. Her crowning moment was destroying Kiki with a recently-learned Acrobatics, and she hasn't had a sweeping victory like that before or since.

You can say that I was a liiiiiitle disappointed (and amazed) when a fluffy pink Fairy-type plague bird thing carried me through more victories than my Talonflame ever did.

Pictured: the Garchomp slayer and the face of power.

A disclaimer: I am NOT necessarily arguing whether Talonflame should or shouldn't be in Reborn, where to put it if it is implemented, etc. When/where the developers put Talonflame in is ultimately up to them, and I'll probably accept whatever decision they make.

No, I'm just here to see if I can demystify some of the wonder over Talonflame's supposed ability to murder things dead. The arguments over its place in the game seem mainly theoretical -- they go by what they know from the official or meta game, without being able to see for certain what it's like to use it in Reborn proper. And how can they? Talonflame can't even be obtained yet.

But with this save file, you can actually use a Talonflame and get a better idea for yourselves of how it really fares in Reborn.

My challenge to you guys, then, is to see how far you get in Samson's fight with Talonflame.

Nova, at the time of this save, is level 60 with the ability Gale Wings. Her moves are Acrobatics, Flame Charge, Me First, and Roost. She is equipped with a Sharp Beak, which will not hinder Acrobatics thanks to the field effect. If you prefer fire, there are Charcoals in my inventory, though Acrobatics is her real strength.

If you wish to change her moves, I have Heart Scales. If you wish to EV train her, I have a full set of Power whatevers. If you even wish to level her, go use that Exp.Share. If you wish to change her nature... you're kinda out of luck. She's been Serious all her life and that back alley 'psychologist' over in 7th Street is unavailable.

I don't know about you, but I struggled with Samson despite Talonflame. Players who are better than me might find a way to sweep him with just the murder bird, but I sure didn't. Maybe she just needs a few more levels under her feathers, or maybe I just suck at using her. Maybe Talonflame's OPness only comes from having Gale Wings and Swords Dance, which hasn't been implemented.

I dunno. I'm just giving an opportunity to see how Talonflame plays out in Reborn. Because from MY experience using it in Reborn, I'm not too impressed.

Game.rxdata

[Lostelle]

There was already a large discussion about Talonflame being not OP on I think "The Axe" thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Yes, here it is. Starts there and continues quite a bit.

Answering you, however, I think leveling your glorious bird up a bit would help a bunch.

[Etesian]

As you'd expect of a mon with only one base stat above 81, Talonflame is bad in-game. It's main things in comp are being speedy and having priority so it doesn't have to worry about opposing priority and scarfers, which barely exist in Reborn (there's Charlotte's scarf darm, a few sucker punchers and the ice gym's ice shards, thats all i can think of rn). It usually packs SD/Bulk Up/Choice Band to boost its bad attack stat, but we don't have any of that either.

A lot of the placements do seem to be based on comp viability over in-game viability. Such as tentacruel. A mon only ever used for defence and hazard control. It's only a decent defensove mon without scald/toxic and hazards are...irrelevant in Reborn. Yet the only way to get it is from the mystery egg, the same thing that can get you a volcarona or bisharp instead.

[Timber Dragon]

There was already a large discussion about Talonflame being not OP on I think "The Axe" thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Yes, here it is. Starts there and continues quite a bit.

Answering you, however, I think leveling your glorious bird up a bit would help a bunch.

A little harsh, but that was beautiful. Sums up a lot of my complaints with Talonflame. In fact, had I known that thread existed, I'd have just linked that alongside my save data and said HAVE AT IT JERKS instead of writing that multi-paragraph spiel. Oh well.

As you'd expect of a mon with only one base stat above 81, Talonflame is bad in-game. It's main things in comp are being speedy and having priority so it doesn't have to worry about opposing priority and scarfers, which barely exist in Reborn (there's Charlotte's scarf darm, a few sucker punchers and the ice gym's ice shards, thats all i can think of rn). It usually packs SD/Bulk Up/Choice Band to boost its bad attack stat, but we don't have any of that either.

A lot of the placements do seem to be based on comp viability over in-game viability. Such as tentacruel. A mon only ever used for defence and hazard control. It's only a decent defensove mon without scald/toxic and hazards are...irrelevant in Reborn. Yet the only way to get it is from the mystery egg, the same thing that can get you a volcarona or bisharp instead.

I'd been suspecting that for a while, but it was the fight with Samson that really made me reconsider the hype. I already had a designated Fire-type in Blaziken and by that point I already caught a better Flying-type in Braviary, who turned out to be a much more solid birb overall. Talonflame seemed redundant at that point, but I kept thinking that with all the hype, I had to be missing something. Guess not.

If we actually had all those items, then it'd be a different story, but it really goes to show you the difference between being valuable in competition, and valuable in general.

[FairFamily]

Well after a few tries I came with a solid 4 pkmn dead through talonflame alone , 1 revenge kill and 1 seriously dented after 5 rare candies. You open braviary and arial ace (pray that you don't crit). Your briviary gets destroyed and then you go for the talonflame. Then you acrobatic you all the way to conkeldurr which you brave bird for big damage. Quite consistent too.

Edited July 11, 2016 by FairFamily

[DemICE]

you are using Acrobatics while holding an item (even if it is Sharp Beak) and you wonder why you do pitiful damage?

[FairFamily]

you are using Acrobatics while holding an item (even if it is Sharp Beak) and you wonder why you do pitiful damage?

He is in the big top arena field. acrobatics always gets doubled.

[DemICE]

He is in the big top arena field. acrobatics always gets doubled.

now thats something i never noticed when i was checking the field effects

[enu]

From what I've tried with your Talonflame:

- Hariyama - nearly OHKO with Acrobatics

- Mienshao - OHKO with Acrobatics

- Lucario - nearly OHKO with Fire Blitz

- Blaziken - nearly OHKO with Acrobatics

Dídn't try the rest but the result is pretty clear - with a few more levels and EV-trained attack stat she should be able to sweep Samson just fine.