Suicune and other missing pokemons

[Kasseopea]

Hey guys, fairly new here, so sorry if im one of those people that barge in and demand stuff XD

In any case, i was wondering - why are popular pokemon not there - i.e. my all-time-favorite Suicune? Mew, Gengar, Articuno. Seems like many iconic ones are missing, even from gen one.

When are they planned to be implemented? Any approximate ETA? Would love to have a game where i can create my perfect ice-water team without action replay / trading.

[Fumble]

Legendaries are post-game, while most of the others were deemed too powerful for this point of the game (although some of them are slightly controversial, such as the Talonflame debate). Pokemon like Gengar and Gyarados used to be in the game, but were taken out due to either being too strong or being so much better than other Pokemon, which would almost never be used as long as the stronger things were available.

Anyway, since we're getting close to the end of the game, the last few non-legendaries should become available, such as the majority of the unavailable Water types.

[Kasseopea]

Meaning Suicune, Kyogre & Articuno wont be out at all? My dream team was Blastoise, Suicune, Glaceon, Vaporeon, Kyogre & Articuno. So basically 50% are unobtainable because they are too strong / popular...?

In all honest opinion that does sound pretty strange. "Hey, remember those pokemon you really liked to have? Yeah, no, since other people also like them, they are not in here".....

Edited July 15, 2016 by Kasseopea

[Fumble]

They'll be out, just probably only after the E4 and the Champion. Sorry :x

[Kasseopea]

Well, thanks for they explanation. I was already kind of put off by the super-serious-lets-all-be-GoT-story with pokemons used as torture devices and the strange control scheme that i didn't manage to change. Now hearing that pokemons are being locked off because they are too popular kind of puts the final nail in.

Guess its back to the Pokemon Black emulator^^

Cya.

[Timber Dragon]

It's not a popularity contest, it's about balance (or finding an appropriate place to put them -- it'd be weird to put, say, desert Pokemon in the middle of a large city). Certain Pokemon are currently unavailable because they can be too strong for that point in the game, rendering other Pokemon redundant. For example, during the times when Gyarados could be obtained before the 2nd gym, no one bothered to use any other Water-types because Gyarados is just that strong. There was no point to other Water-types being there with Gyarados around, not to mention Gyarados is very strong in general, allowing you to get through many battles through brute force alone.

Reborn forces players to use Pokemon that they otherwise wouldn't have. You need to utilize the Pokemon you have available to you. The game is balanced in such a way that you don't need a dream team (especially one with three legendaries) to win. If anything, I'm dreading the time when we'd need that kind of power just to survive.

[Bewilderer]

The reason they are popular is because they are very overpowered, and the reason they are not available is because they are too overpowered. The point of the game is to get you to experiment with pokemon you may have never considered to take on people with things that vastly out-power you. So this game is not intended to prevent you from getting to use your favorite pokemon, it is simply locking off overpowered pokemon that would be considered a simple solution to the whole game. If you could just rush through the game without needing to plan out strategies or consider swapping out team members, the game would be a lot more boring.

EDIT: Sorry, I was apparently typing at the same time as TimberDragon. I did not mean to make a redundant post.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Bewilderer

[Foamy]

Well, thanks for they explanation. I was already kind of put off by the super-serious-lets-all-be-GoT-story with pokemons used as torture devices and the strange control scheme that i didn't manage to change. Now hearing that pokemons are being locked off because they are too popular kind of puts the final nail in.

Guess its back to the Pokemon Black emulator^^

Cya.

The control scheme is a result of RPG Maker, not the game itself. You're giving the game a strike for a shortcoming that it isn't even responsible for.

Blastoise, Vaporeon, and Glaceon have all been available for a while now. The other three will be available after the Elite Four, like many Legendaries in mainstream Pokémon games. This is nothing new. Finding Legendary Pokémon at this point in the game wouldn't make sense from a storyline or gameplay perspective, so they're rightfully unobtainable right now.

There will be content in the postgame where you can use your Articuno, Suicune, and Kyogre, but you won't be able to catch them during the main storyline.

The Pokémon aren't inaccessible because they're popular. They're inaccessible because they're so much better than every other Pokémon that people wouldn't even take others into consideration. When players use the exact same Pokémon in every single playthrough, then the game experience becomes repetitive and boring. This game is all about encouraging the player to adapt based on what is presented to them, making them think and strategize rather than just breeze through any obstacles with all of the best Pokémon. After all, a famous game designer once said, "Restrictions breed creativity."

This ideology appears to be at odds with your "I only want to use these six specific Pokémon" mantra, which I personally think is an extremely boring and close-minded way to play a game. I'm not saying that you shouldn't enjoy a game the way you want to, but I think it would behoove you to try enjoying a game in different ways, rather than just writing it off because you can't get a Kyogre. (Seriously? What sort of challenge would this game be if it let you use a goddamn Kyogre?)

TL;DR Don't quit the game for such an immature reason. Adapt, improve, and learn to experience a game in more than one way.

Timber Dragon and Bewilderer have both explained it perfectly. I strongly urge you to take their words to heart.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Foamy

[Razkar]

Dude I understand you, i also wanted to use my favourite pokemon, Gyarardos and gengar for example.

I have done 2 reborn runs with 2 differents ways of playing:

-First one I play the game as it is done, playing with the available pokemon.

-Second one i came back to old episodes to get the 2 pokemon i mentionned above.

And my first run was way more interesting than the second one, and thus more funny. The development team is doing a great job to make this game a challenge (which is great cuz pokemon main games are just too easy), so play the game as it is you'll have a great time

[Kasseopea]

It's not a popularity contest, it's about balance...

Well, sorry, but why would i want to play with bidoofs and rattatas on my team? I know what your point is - having a god-tier team leaves only so many options, but why not make those pokemon more difficult to obtain, rather than outright missing? The reason i want Suicune is not because she is the strongest - it's because she is the prettiest, coolest and just overall most elegant one imho.

Articuno on the other hand is the one i kindly remember from Pokemon Snap - back in the days when such graphics were breathtaking.

Besides - getting the legendaries was always the more or less main goal aside from finishing the game.

The reason they are popular is because they are very overpowered...

Right, cause Articuno is SO overpowered. He could never be taken down by a Charizard...or a Blaziken...or Camerupt...it's almost as if certain pokemon are stronger against others...

I get it when we are talking about one of the newest like Reshiram or Kyogre, but the old legendaries?

The control scheme is a result of RPG Maker, not the game itself. You're giving the game a strike for a shortcoming that it isn't even responsible for....

...This ideology appears to be at odds with your "I only want to use these six specific Pokémon" mantra, which I personally think is an extremely boring and close-minded way to play a game...

...TL;DR Don't quit the game for such an immature reason. Adapt, improve, and learn to experience a game in more than one way.

I am sorry, that i am too boring, immature and simple-minded for your ascended taste, but after playing a LOT of pokemon, it's just not doing it with a balanced team, so i started to role-play. As somebody who happens to prefer Water & Ice pokemon and is a strict, efficient and a self-righteous trainer. Often too proud to walk around even the tiniest hindrance and trying to take it down or force aside by skill and force. Pretty much a Kaiba or any other character who is skillful, but too proud and stubborn for his own good with personality tweaks here and there. Now this particular trainer has those 6 particular pokemon. Not exactly hero-material and just flawed enough to be really fun to play as.

I could pick a different element, but i wont be excluding certain legendaries.

Im sick of gamefreak already restricting it in every goddamn game. However, in their games i can use actionreplay and actually get them at Lv5 from the get go, if i so desire.

As for the controls - That is like saying "The game was made in Cryengine, so you should expect it to burn your PC and crash every 5 seconds" or "This game was made on a Commodore 64, so you should expect it to have only those resolution options". I am not saying they did a bad job, i am saying that the control scheme in this game is bad. It might be bad in other games as well, but that does not change anything about this one.

...The development team is doing a great job to make this game a challenge (which is great cuz pokemon main games are just too easy), so play the game as it is you'll have a great time

As i said, i am kinda worried about pokemon being used as torture instruments. People tend to confuse "mature" with gruesome / abominable / rape / torture / nudity. Maturity is kinda about being able to deal with this stuff and being able to process it, not actually WISHING for it to happen - in a game or elsewhere.

So yeah, i am kinda afraid to walk in into a room in this game and see a girl being raped & burned to death by a rapidash or something. I find stuff like that disgusting. I just really, really don't need sh*t like shit in my life.

I will see myself out^^

Good luck with the game. Nintendo might shut it down. (Basically the law says in places, that if you neglect to defend your copyright, you admit it to be fair use and loose exclusivety or sth). Not wishing for it or anything, just saying. Sword of Damokles and stuff, you know.

P.S. Didn't meant to attack anybody personally, so i hope nobody is offended (even tho its 2016). It's just that this game seems have too many things that don't go well with me. It's sad, because i really would have enjoyed a game which includes all the pkmn, but it would have to be:

1. Set in the pkmn-universe, not Shadowrun (mood-wise). I enjoy Shadowrun 4 pen&paper in itself, but kinda don't need it in Pokemon.

and

2. Not excluding pkmn based on their power/popularity, to force the play to play weaker ones. Oh well, you can't have everything i guess^^

Edited August 2, 2016 by Kasseopea

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

So yeah, i am kinda afraid to walk in into a room in this game and see a girl being raped & burned to death by a rapidash or something. I find stuff like that disgusting.

Good luck with the game. Nintendo might shut it down. (Basically the law says in places, that if you neglect to defend your copyright, you admit it to be fair use and loose exclusivety or sth). Not wishing for it or anything, just saying. Sword of Damokles and stuff, you know.

@first bit I quoted: nothing that graphic happens in Reborn.

@second bit: I remember reading that Game Freak gave permission for people to use their Pokemon materials. Also this game has been going for 4 years and there are tens of other fangames (maybe close to or over 100 even) that use Essentials.

[Commander]

While there's a lot that could be said, all I really see is someone getting really upset for not getting what they want. I pretty much had to wait 7 Episodes to get the mon I wanted (technically he's not official until 16's release), but you don't see me complaining. The legendaries rule is pretty much based on the league along with the fact that mythical pokemon...really don't make a lot of sense within a storyline until you're at your peak (aka when you're champion). It'd be weird for some amateur trainer to be running around with a pokemon with power passed down through stories.

Speaking of legends, I do have a little plan for Hardcore if I'm still around when they become available. Let's just say it's something called CoM X-league and it will have similar rulesets to the actual X-league. Gonna be a pain to make, but what else are you going to train and use a Mythical Pokemon on. (I might make a ban list though). And again, it'd be a one legend per run like the rules.

[Sheep]

Alright everyone, let me just drop a cautionary line. The majority of discussion here has been great, but there have been a few lines here and there that I probably would have left out of the final edit. Just remember that while you don't have to agree with Kasseopea's perspective, you do need to respect their choices and reasoning.

[pyrromanis]

If you want to do a certain run on Reborn, you can always ask for specific pokemon to be added in your game in 'Ask for a Pokemon' thread in the Team Showcase sub-forum, IF the people that edit your save file thinks your requests are reasonable.

If you don't get any help, try to find a way to add them in game yourself. If you can't to do it even that way, then don't bother the dev team with your unreasonable requests! It's their game, not yours...

[Lord Drakyle]

'Well sorry, but why would I want to play with Bidoofs and Ratatas' <--- I'm unsure if this is to say everything you are finding early game amounts to the same value as these two pokemon, but it is a bit too generalised (if that makes sense) to simply say they are the only thing available, as there are PLENTY early game and I wouldn't write them off just because they aren't top tier god class pokemon which dominate competitive, now I can understand it is disappointing to not have some or many of the things we want the easy way or we don't like to have to work to overcome main story obstacles but it would very quickly become a repeating cycle of events with little to no effort or change and quickly become boring (at least that's how I see it, i'm not everyone).

'Right cause Articuno is so overpowered. he could never be taken down by a Charizard..or Blaziken...or Camerupt' <--- This isn't the best style of thinking to use when trying to argue against something not being available, although yes it has a clear point, type matchups exist and a pokemon can be beaten with the right type matchup, this doesn't mean the pokemon isn't too overpowered or too likely to draw attention away from alternatives that get no love, but everyone has their choice and their own style of play and I can understand Reborn isn't everyone's cup of tea, all I could suggest is to at least try experience things with variation.

Again, not my decision if someone plays something and not everyone will like the same thing, for anyone reading this post in the same or similar boat as Kasseopea or if it's Kasseopea themselves, I can only say that I accept your opinion and choices but I would recommend experiencing things from another angle, see how it goes without legendaries or faveourites who knows you might enjoy it, you might not but the only way to find out would be by experiencing it but not saying you have to.

[Foamy]

I am sorry, that i am too boring, immature and simple-minded for your ascended taste, but after playing a LOT of pokemon, it's just not doing it with a balanced team, so i started to role-play. As somebody who happens to prefer Water & Ice pokemon and is a strict, efficient and a self-righteous trainer. Often too proud to walk around even the tiniest hindrance and trying to take it down or force aside by skill and force. Pretty much a Kaiba or any other character who is skillful, but too proud and stubborn for his own good with personality tweaks here and there. Now this particular trainer has those 6 particular pokemon. Not exactly hero-material and just flawed enough to be really fun to play as.

I could pick a different element, but i wont be excluding certain legendaries.

Reborn is supposed to be a region recovering from a series of apocalyptic events, so the mature themes are to be expected. However, since the state of the region actually IMPROVES as you accomplish tasks and play through the game, I'd say that the worst of it is in the beginning.

It's also worth noting that the "dark" and "edgy" themes are actually quite tame, especially when you compare Reborn to other games like Rejuvenation or Snakewood.

(Oh my fucking god Snakewood)

I'm not quite sure how to resolve your issue with the nature of the story, but...

I will say that a lot of users on this forum enjoy playing through the game with mono-type or theme teams, and there is a service offered by others that modifies which Pokémon you can obtain. If you'd like, you can have someone create a custom save file for you that allows you to acquire Pokémon like Suicune and Kyogre.