Danganronpa 3 Chats and stuffs

Felicity · July 29, 2016

So far in the season this is my most compelling show to watch bar Re:Zero. Specifically the Zetsubou side of the story. I just kinda wanna talk about why it's so compelling and compare some of the differences between the two sides of the series.

Note: If you're new to Danganronpa, haven't seen anything of the franchise, go away and get better acquainted. It's a vibrant, fairly well thought out series that embodies everything that makes people look at anime and say "Dammit Japan" in a good way, at least in my opinion. Did I mention that? Yeah, this is opinion.

So, looking at the two series airing right now, with 3 episodes of Mirai and Zetsubou each. Mirai is a sequel to the second game whilst Zetsubou is a prequel that explains the events leading up to the inciting apocalypse of the series. A nice bit of symmetry in the series right of the get go.

Simply put, I much prefer Zetsubou over Mirai. There's several simple reasons for this. First and foremost, I know most everyone in Zetsubou. They're the cast of the second game and they're so much more familiar than all the new random asshats in Mirai. Every mannerism and tic they have makes me go "I remember that!" internally and squeal a little bit in happiness. I've grown attached to them and this side of the series compounds on that. Meanwhile Mirai has a much more diminished version of this as I know five or so characters I like and are less attached to. To be frank that's because it's been a longer time since I spent any time with the first cast of characters.

The second reason I prefer Zetsubou is because it's, ironically, something new for me in terms of story telling. Twice in the main series have we had a death game and the third time makes it feel quite worn out. Seeing this cast I like in a new setting with a different pace is nice. There was a dramatic turn in the most recent episode of Zetsubou that leans more towards the series standard and I obviously expect this to continue considering what we already know. Still, it's nice

As for any speculation I have, and this is purely speculation, there are several things I've noticed that make me wonder about the events of the series. For one, the inciting incident to create the remnants of despair. I'm not sure if this has been revealed in a light novel because I know there are extra pieces of the story circulating in other mediums. I think, simply, that Chiaki will be killed. She will represent hope within that class, will be constantly built as such to provide support to everyone as their class rep and friend, only to be crushed and replaced by Junko to manipulate, sending them spiralling into despair. Mainly because she simply wasn't a remnant of despair, we don't know where she is and yet her likeness was used in the second game as a literal agent of hope in the simulation. This makes me sad because I wanna hug Chiaki but the series isn't renowned for making people happy.

Next is the traitor in Mirai. I can't remember his name perfectly, I believe he is Ryouta the ultimate animator. He was shown in Zetsubou within the same class as the Remnants and is suspiciously similar in build to the Ultimate Doppelganger seen in the second game as Fat Togami. He was obviously captured, as shown by his presence in the game, but what if he got out? Somethings going on with that kid at the very least.

So, thoughts 'n shit?

Jmanultrax1 · July 29, 2016

I believe it is the ultimate doppelganger. But in the second game they all had their memories before being corrupted by despair, if this happened why would he introduce himself as togami in the first place? It most likely is the same person, living up to the ultimate doppelganger name

Lord_Ludo · July 29, 2016

*Obvious Spoilers*

I prefer Side Despair over Side future as well. Even though I know the entire cast of characters is going to die... or worse... I find it extremely interesting to find out exactly how it happened. RIP Chiaki though.

Also, for Future, I'm also suspicious about the Ultimate Animator. Doesn't really seem like the type of guy who could survive in a brutal apocalypse. Alternatively, I'm wary of Miaya and unfortunately Asahina

Fumble · July 29, 2016

tbh I prefer Future over Despair bc I just prefer the mystery, but w/e

Animator guy is definitely most suspicious imo, but Miaya also seems somewhat untrustworthy due to never confirming her code (and also looking somewhat similar to another character from the series), but I really like Miaya :c Also skeptical that

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but idk

Amethyst · July 29, 2016

i have to pause these episodes like every five minutes to cry tbh

i also have a preference for zetsubou-hen because I have been dying to see what the SDR2 cast was like on the outside ever since finishing that game. also, having read DR0 I know a little more about the events leading up to stuff and I really want to see some of that actualized in the west (i,e not in the form of a verrrry shoddy fan-translation). obviously there's no ryouko otonashi (cries about it) but I can't imagine how they're going to go over Izuru without
(DR0 spoilers... uh, if i remember correctly?)

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On the other hand there's not nearly enough time for that in a 12-episode season I think so bleh.
~~i will also be very disappointed if we don't get to see some crisp mikan x junko action. what..~~

I still enjoy mirai-hen plenty though. I also don't trust Ryouta not because of two-gami impersonating him but because according to his profile he is in the 77th class (i.e, the SDR2 cast's class). So since the ryouta we've seen in zetsubou-hen is twogami, where is the real one???

I also very much do not trust Gekkougahara because of something I saw pointed out...

(Ultra Despair Girls spoiler)

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Pocky · July 29, 2016

HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT MAJOR SPOILERS BUT VERY IMPORTANT LINK BETWEEN ZETSUBOU AND DANGANRONPA 2!!! (Contains spoilers of episode 3 of Zetsubou)

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Edited July 29, 2016 by Pocky

Lord_Ludo · July 29, 2016

On 7/29/2016 at 3:15 AM, Pocky said:

HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT MAJOR SPOILERS BUT VERY IMPORTANT LINK BETWEEN ZETSUBOU AND DANGANRONPA 2!!! (Contains spoilers of episode 3 of Zetsubou)

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So in the credits of the Twilight Syndrome Murder Case of Dangan Ronpa 2, it lists the names of Tsumiki, Koizumi, Saionji, Mioda, Sato, and Kuzuryu. Guess who just appeared in episode 3 of Zetsubou? THAT'S RIGHT!

SATO AND MOTHERFUCKIN KUZURYU

So what importance does this have? If you follow the truth route of the game (you can read it over on the wiki http://danganronpa.wikia.com/wiki/Twilight_Syndrome_Murder_Case#Truth_Edition , may also contain spoilers of danganronpa 2) you can link Girl E as Sato, and the murdered as... Kuzuryu!

By reading this, you discover more about what happened in episode 3 and how the murder actually happened.. If you need more proof, check out these screenshots:

http://prntscr.com/bywb7f

http://prntscr.com/bywbdj

Pretty smart i'd say, huh? I speculate that even MORE details in future episodes of Zetsubou will link back to Danganronpa 2!

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Also, Juzo literally ruined everything by pushing Hajime over the edge in Despair. 10/10 good job

Edited July 29, 2016 by Lord_Ludo

Pocky · July 29, 2016

On 7/29/2016 at 3:22 AM, Lord_Ludo said:
Also, Juzo literally ruined everything by pushing Hajime over the edge in Despair. 10/10 good job

"Local Man ~~causes despair everywhere~~ ruins everything"

IdleThoughts · July 29, 2016

By the way, I had heard a lot of speculation about the Players Remaining ordeal -- what with Hagakure technically not being in the killing game, and I saw some interesting speculation on Reddit that instead of Hagakure being the 16th participant, it would be Togami. They cited an advertisement poster as their source which not only excluded Hagakure, but included Togami for reasons unknown. I'll go look through my history to see if I can find it, I'll edit my post if I do.

EDIT: Found it. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn9llL2VMAAUHyu.jpg

Edited July 29, 2016 by IdleThoughts

ShadowStar · July 29, 2016

Miaya Speculation: {Spoilers for Danganronpa/Zero, Ultra Despair Girls. Trigger Happy Havoc (1), Goodbye Despair (2)}

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The Traitor: {Spoilers for Mentions Above}

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The 16th Participant: {Spoilers for Killer Killer}

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Final Thoughts: {Still Spoilers}

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AuthorReborn · July 29, 2016

Zetsuou is, as everyone else previously stated, the more refreshing and interesting side of the story, but the other half isn't bad, it's just kinda the same deal over again.

Okay, obviously spoilers here and if you got far enough down the page to reach my post, you've probably already been thoroughly spoiled, so I won't really bother with spoiler tags unless it goes onto other content outside the main two games and the anime of 3 so far. Please be advised that I can and will read into and speculate just about every word and will probably not be 100% correct, so don't feel shy about proving me wrong. But hey, speculation is fun with this sort of stuff so wynaut?

Lots o Speculation about Miaya below

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Basically, Miaya is suspicious as hell, and I say this for a number of reasons.

Firstly, her entire figure is concealed by the wheelchair that she's in, allowing her to easily hide all sorts of things, such as weapons or other important bits (more on later).

Secondly, she exclaims in surprise when Makoto and Hina supposedly "discover" what her forbidden action/NG Code is, but we never see any confirmation in the form of her actual wristband, meaning this could quite easily be a lie, especially since she doesn't actually have to use her own voice to convey something, since her voice could just as easily betray her intentions and reveal the truth. After this event, she forms an emotional bond with the other two and makes herself seem quite clingy due to her proclamation of them being "soul mates." Again, this can be done to easily deceive Makoto and Hina,both very trusting people, into believing that she is 100% on their side.

And while we have no idea how long the killer has to remove their prey from life while the others sleep, Monokuma does state there this is a time limit, meaning the killer can only kill someone so far away and still have time to return to their original spot before everyone else wakes up. This time limit can be seen as a further hindrance when you consider Great Gozu, Munakata, and Juzo destroyed a sizable amount of the building in their earlier conflict, greatly restricting mobility. Thusly, the killer would likely need to be nearby to actually be able properly execute their victim without fear of discovery and there were exactly four people in the room when Great Gozu barricaded it: Gozu, Makoto, Hina, and Miaya. The only other person who is confirmed to be nearby is Munakata, but due to how his character has been portrayed so far, this seems unlikely. Plus, it would be far too easy for the guy attacking Mr. Protagonist himself to be the big bad traitor/attacker. At the time when Gozu's body is discovered, there are no clear signs of violent entry into the room presented to us. But regardless of whether the killer was from inside the room or the killer was from outside the room, they would still need to remove the barricades from the door, since an intruder would need to gain access and someone on the inside would need to cover up their crime.

And, right after the opening credits of Episode 3, one of the lockers he had previously used to barricade the door was laying neatly on the ground next to Gozu's body (once it was removed from suspension). The only problem with someone forcibly entering the room would be those lockers- and not for obvious reason. There are certainly some people outside that room that could break through those lockers- Juzo Sakakura comes to mind- but there's another problem entirely with breaking into the room: where the lockers go and the rules that limit the attackers.

An intruder would have no idea of the layout of the room beyond or the people within said room. So, if they were to break down the door and fling the lockers of the way, they could potentially violate the rules and cause their own downfall, since the rules state that the attacker may kill exactly one person during each "night time" and the flying lockers could easily crush multiple people and kill them in their sleep through smashing their skulls in. So there's no way that an intruder could have safely made it inside the room without making a massive gamble during their first opportunity to take out a growing threat to them. So the only option that remains is someone on the inside of the room removing the lockers from the interior of the room to frame another person.

And while I continually state that it is Miaya or she is suspicious, I don't believe that is it Miaya. How could this be, you ask? Well it's simple: Miaya isn't even inside the building because there's another person masquerading as Miaya. Miaya is none other than the Ultimate Impostor/Doppelganger, the man who previously pretended to be both Byakuya Togami and Ryota Mitarai. While the members of the Remnants of Despair that died inside the Neo World Program in DR2 are somewhat presumed dead by many due to the fact that AI Junko/Junko's Alter Ego specifically states in Chapter 6 of DR2 that their friends will die if they do not graduate, this could easily be seen as manipulation since that entire Graduation Ceremony is just Junko attempting to manipulate the DR2 gang into releasing her, especially since the official status of the "deceased" members of the Remnants of Despair is comatose, meaning they have an opportunity to reawaken and rejoin their comrades, who had returned to being members of the Ultimate Despair. So the Ultimate Imposter (just going to shorten to UI from now on) ended up awakening from their coma and attending the trial as Miaya Gekkogahara.

There's further evidence that supports Miaya potentially being the UI. Look at how her character is dressed. Miaya is wearing bulky clothing that can be used to disguise his weight (...to an extent. I realize there is a size difference here and that is a bit of a hole in this argument, but I'll just chalk it up to the UI's talent so I can finish this theory because I've been typing it up for a while). And specifically, there's one dead give away to the Impostor's Identity, in the anime, at least: the cheeks. and coincidentally enough, Miaya's cheeks are concealed from view. plus the "blood" Makoto finds on Hina and the knife are both actually tomato sauce, something the UI, who is obsessed with eating, would be far more likely to have on him than anyone else would be.

Still don't believe that Miaya is, at the very least, the killer? Well how about this: she moved places in-between when everyone went to sleep and when they awoke to find Hina "dead." In fact, Hina was also moved over just enough for Miaya's wheelchair to be moved into a closer position to both Hina and Makoto, likely to force a closeness between them and also to delay the discovery of Gozu's body while Makoto despaired over Hina, that what, Maktoto would feel despair, hope, and despair again, with Hina being the diversion to cause even more total despair. This change in location is visible by looking at the end of Episode Two, right as the timer goes off, and then looking again as Hina sits up in Episode 3.

That's about all the time I have to speculate with right now~~, I say, staying up several hours after I should~~, but further discussion should be fun. I'm fairly certain this won't be 100% what I wanted to say since it took a while to type out and I also am incredibly tired atm, but I'll be happy to answer all questions/explain what I meant at any point in that long, rant-esque theory I just typed out.

Lord_Ludo · July 29, 2016

On 7/29/2016 at 8:40 AM, AuthorReborn said:

Zetsuou is, as everyone else previously stated, the more refreshing and interesting side of the story, but the other half isn't bad, it's just kinda the same deal over again.

Okay, obviously spoilers here and if you got far enough down the page to reach my post, you've probably already been thoroughly spoiled, so I won't really bother with spoiler tags unless it goes onto other content outside the main two games and the anime of 3 so far. Please be advised that I can and will read into and speculate just about every word and will probably not be 100% correct, so don't feel shy about proving me wrong. But hey, speculation is fun with this sort of stuff so wynaut?

Lots o Speculation about Miaya below

Reveal hidden contents

Basically, Miaya is suspicious as hell, and I say this for a number of reasons.

Firstly, her entire figure is concealed by the wheelchair that she's in, allowing her to easily hide all sorts of things, such as weapons or other important bits (more on later).

Secondly, she exclaims in surprise when Makoto and Hina supposedly "discover" what her forbidden action/NG Code is, but we never see any confirmation in the form of her actual wristband, meaning this could quite easily be a lie, especially since she doesn't actually have to use her own voice to convey something, since her voice could just as easily betray her intentions and reveal the truth. After this event, she forms an emotional bond with the other two and makes herself seem quite clingy due to her proclamation of them being "soul mates." Again, this can be done to easily deceive Makoto and Hina,both very trusting people, into believing that she is 100% on their side.

And while we have no idea how long the killer has to remove their prey from life while the others sleep, Monokuma does state there this is a time limit, meaning the killer can only kill someone so far away and still have time to return to their original spot before everyone else wakes up. This time limit can be seen as a further hindrance when you consider Great Gozu, Munakata, and Juzo destroyed a sizable amount of the building in their earlier conflict, greatly restricting mobility. Thusly, the killer would likely need to be nearby to actually be able properly execute their victim without fear of discovery and there were exactly four people in the room when Great Gozu barricaded it: Gozu, Makoto, Hina, and Miaya. The only other person who is confirmed to be nearby is Munakata, but due to how his character has been portrayed so far, this seems unlikely. Plus, it would be far too easy for the guy attacking Mr. Protagonist himself to be the big bad traitor/attacker. At the time when Gozu's body is discovered, there are no clear signs of violent entry into the room presented to us. But regardless of whether the killer was from inside the room or the killer was from outside the room, they would still need to remove the barricades from the door, since an intruder would need to gain access and someone on the inside would need to cover up their crime.

And, right after the opening credits of Episode 3, one of the lockers he had previously used to barricade the door was laying neatly on the ground next to Gozu's body (once it was removed from suspension). The only problem with someone forcibly entering the room would be those lockers- and not for obvious reason. There are certainly some people outside that room that could break through those lockers- Juzo Sakakura comes to mind- but there's another problem entirely with breaking into the room: where the lockers go and the rules that limit the attackers.

An intruder would have no idea of the layout of the room beyond or the people within said room. So, if they were to break down the door and fling the lockers of the way, they could potentially violate the rules and cause their own downfall, since the rules state that the attacker may kill exactly one person during each "night time" and the flying lockers could easily crush multiple people and kill them in their sleep through smashing their skulls in. So there's no way that an intruder could have safely made it inside the room without making a massive gamble during their first opportunity to take out a growing threat to them. So the only option that remains is someone on the inside of the room removing the lockers from the interior of the room to frame another person.

And while I continually state that it is Miaya or she is suspicious, I don't believe that is it Miaya. How could this be, you ask? Well it's simple: Miaya isn't even inside the building because there's another person masquerading as Miaya. Miaya is none other than the Ultimate Impostor/Doppelganger, the man who previously pretended to be both Byakuya Togami and Ryota Mitarai. While the members of the Remnants of Despair that died inside the Neo World Program in DR2 are somewhat presumed dead by many due to the fact that AI Junko/Junko's Alter Ego specifically states in Chapter 6 of DR2 that their friends will die if they do not graduate, this could easily be seen as manipulation since that entire Graduation Ceremony is just Junko attempting to manipulate the DR2 gang into releasing her, especially since the official status of the "deceased" members of the Remnants of Despair is comatose, meaning they have an opportunity to reawaken and rejoin their comrades, who had returned to being members of the Ultimate Despair. So the Ultimate Imposter (just going to shorten to UI from now on) ended up awakening from their coma and attending the trial as Miaya Gekkogahara.

There's further evidence that supports Miaya potentially being the UI. Look at how her character is dressed. Miaya is wearing bulky clothing that can be used to disguise his weight (...to an extent. I realize there is a size difference here and that is a bit of a hole in this argument, but I'll just chalk it up to the UI's talent so I can finish this theory because I've been typing it up for a while). And specifically, there's one dead give away to the Impostor's Identity, in the anime, at least: the cheeks. and coincidentally enough, Miaya's cheeks are concealed from view. plus the "blood" Makoto finds on Hina and the knife are both actually tomato sauce, something the UI, who is obsessed with eating, would be far more likely to have on him than anyone else would be.

Still don't believe that Miaya is, at the very least, the killer? Well how about this: she moved places in-between when everyone went to sleep and when they awoke to find Hina "dead." In fact, Hina was also moved over just enough for Miaya's wheelchair to be moved into a closer position to both Hina and Makoto, likely to force a closeness between them and also to delay the discovery of Gozu's body while Makoto despaired over Hina, that what, Maktoto would feel despair, hope, and despair again, with Hina being the diversion to cause even more total despair. This change in location is visible by looking at the end of Episode Two, right as the timer goes off, and then looking again as Hina sits up in Episode 3.

That's about all the time I have to speculate with right now~~, I say, staying up several hours after I should~~, but further discussion should be fun. I'm fairly certain this won't be 100% what I wanted to say since it took a while to type out and I also am incredibly tired atm, but I'll be happy to answer all questions/explain what I meant at any point in that long, rant-esque theory I just typed out.

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This is all conjecture and is probably very wrong but here we goooooo:

Hmm... i never considered that as a possibility. The only thing stopping me from fully believing this is that Kirigiri at the end of DR2 says that the chances of the others waking up would be "basically a miracle". Ame said earlier that she could be Monica from Ultra Despair Girls, and that also seems likely.

The other main thing I'm suspicious of with Miaya being the UI and also the traitor/killer, then that would mean that the UI fell back into despair. Although we have no confirmation (i think) of the other 4 survivors from DR2, with only Hajime being confirmed to be A-okay, from Naegi's account we can assume all 5 are no longer despair status. So if the UI miraculously woke up, he would be welcomed by 4 of his former allies and Hajime, all despair freed. Of course, it's completely up in the air if the comatose members of Remnants of Despair are still despair mode or not. But I believe if they were to wake up, there memories from the Neo-World Program would be in-tact. The only members I could see falling back into despair are Mikan and Nagito, since they were aware that they were Remnants of Despair. It's also stated that these two are the most likely to wake up, as they knew it was all a simulation when they died.

Of course, if the UI were to wake up, and was still Despair mode, it's very likely they would sneak off immediately without the 5 surviving members noticing him. But it still just doesn't seem like something the writers would do. But the writers do like to shoot us the middle finger a lot so who knows honestly.

Moving forward, I think it would be much more effective as a Despair tactic against Naegi to simply kill off Asahina immediately, especially since he might then start to doubt the other two members with him. So, I'm actually kinda suspicious of Asahina. Fake stabbing herself and making it all a ruse would make her look completely innocent in the eyes of Naegi and Miaya (if she's innocent).

Despite all this, I do believe that the UI plays some significance. So far, they have impersonated Togami, and Ryota. There is no relation between these characters whatsoever. So why did he chose them, of all people? Togami is pretty easy, he's been a major character in DR1 and the end of 2, meaning it'd be pretty obvious why a UI bent on despair would impersonate a character seen as a hope by the public.

But Ryota has been utterly insignificant so far. As I mentioned briefly in my first post, he does not seem like the type of guy who would be able to survive in an ultimate apocalypse. Plus, he first appears right before the Third Killing game starts. Which, is right outside the girls bathroom, that Kirigiri walks out of to find him walking slightly suspiciously. And right after that, Asahina, still in the bathroom, finds all the guards dead. Because of this, I find Ryota, the Ultimate Animator, to be the traitor.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Lord_Ludo

Jmanultrax1 · July 30, 2016

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ShadowStar · August 2, 2016

Spoilers {EPISODE 4}:

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nepeta100 · August 2, 2016

i also watched the fourth episode and i just wanted to say im rather confused with the whole ideal with the three people that believe the other one(s) were the reason for their expulsion can someone help lighten me on this matter also what the frick is going on here

On 7/29/2016 at 7:27 AM, ShadowStar said:

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Using this, the people who walk left will die via Monokuma Poison (witness violence, eat Ruruka's candy, defend Munakata).

where did you get the information for this has this been confirmed

ShadowStar · August 2, 2016

On 8/2/2016 at 4:19 AM, nepeta100 said:

i also watched the fourth episode and i just wanted to say im rather confused with the whole ideal with the three people that believe the other one(s) were the reason for their expulsion can someone help lighten me on this matter also what the frick is going on here

where did you get the information for this has this been confirmed

It was just speculation from one of the pictures in my first post.

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AuthorReborn · August 2, 2016

Well Episode 4 was... interesting.

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Makkilemore · August 2, 2016

so i havent watched past episode 1 of future arc but

do i continue watching future arc or do i alternate future and despair arcs

EDIT: i went ahead and just alternated but WOW i didnt need this im having painful memories of dr1 and 2 and 0 now please make it stop

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also i missed those kids but i love them im so happy to see them again and be secure in the knowledge that none of them can die because they exist in dr2

Edited August 2, 2016 by Makkilemore

AuthorReborn · August 2, 2016

On 8/2/2016 at 12:38 PM, Makkilemore said:
also i missed those kids but i love them im so happy to see them again and be secure in the knowledge that none of them can die because they exist in dr2

spoilers for DR1&2

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Makkilemore · August 2, 2016

On 8/2/2016 at 9:02 PM, AuthorReborn said:

spoilers for DR1&2

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well... that's not quite true... since Chiaki can die... and Hajime is destined to die and be replaced with his alter ego, Izuru Kamakura.

But besides that ~~and doing things like, oh idk, chopping off parts of themselves to make room for Junko's corpse,~~ they should be alive.

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Jmanultrax1 · August 3, 2016

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Fumble · August 3, 2016

On 8/3/2016 at 1:41 AM, Jmanultrax1 said:

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Well im officially saying that the traitor is creeping me out. Having that they were revealed I was surprised.

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Jmanultrax1 · August 3, 2016

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Makkilemore · August 3, 2016

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nepeta100 · August 8, 2016

the fifth despair future arc episode is out! I really hope they don't kill Seiko now I feel so sorry for her and just want her to be friends again with the ultimate confectionist don't remember the name at the moment

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