Week 10 - Tier Shift (I'll make it pretty later)

[Deleted User]

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/formats/tier_shift/

Please read this as it explains the rules.

Avalon vs Atlantis (1-5)

1. TRHS vs FraRPetO

2. Nhadala vs Lugruf

3. Arkhidon vs DragonMasterKrim

4. Mr. LGFD vs Xiri

5. Acecy vs Personthing

6. Spineblade vs Sonikku

7. Ame_Rosa vs Morshu

Subs:

1. Jericho -- RudeStyle

2. Void -- Inno

3. Swimming95 -- Ace_Trainer_Vince

Phantom Vulcan vs The Ravenholts (4-1)

1. Exlink vs Cobalt996

2. Azery vs Red Chaos

3. Imperial vs Trevore

4. NovaKnight vs Cool Girl

5. Avatar of Grima vs YoshiOfRedemption

6. Sonata vs Odybld

7. mar_mar vs IntSys

Subs

1. YinYang -- Cool Girl

2. BIGJRA -- YoshiOfRedemption

3. Rosesong -- Cobalt996

Gaia vs Amazon (1-5)

1. Roswell vs Bazaro
2. TarTar vs Quinn
3. TheDW66 vs Pyrrhon
4. NickCrash vs Bluewolf
5. Dragon116 vs Swampellow
6. Monochrome_Complex vs Sparky
7. pbood2 vs Honchy

Subs
1. Dark Desire -- Hycrox420
2. Sheep -- Drymus
3. Taska -- Sheepish

Ask questions in green.

NOTE:

Win totals for top 3 teams are as follows.

Avalon: 36

Atlantis: 35

Amazon: 33

• The winner of Avalon/Atlantis is in no matter what.
• Amazon is in no matter what if they win.
• If Amazon loses, Avalon is in if they can get 1 win even in losing, Atlantis is in if they can get two wins even in losing.

[Guzam]

To elaborate before this question is asked, if you put a mega stone on a pokemon, it will be considered the tier of its mega, even if you don't evolve it. This means if you run charizard with Charzardite, it won't get any boosts, but if you run one without the stone it will get the +15 in all stats.

Another example is aerodactyl. If it does not have a mega stone on it it will get +10 boost in all stats. Having the mega stone on it at all will only net it a +5 boost in all stats. This goes for your mega as well (obviously).

Just something me and my crew found out while testing. So you ravenholts don't have to worry about base 174 power zard-y ;]

[Sonikku]

"I'll make it pretty later"

Lmao Jericho, this is why you're my guy

[InnocentSerenity]

How does Shedinja's HP stat work, since it usually has 1 HP?

[Swampellow]

How does Shedinja's HP stat work, since it usually has 1 HP?

It gets the boost.

[InnocentSerenity]

• The winner of Avalon/Atlantis is in no matter what.
• Amazon is in no matter what if they win.
• If Amazon loses, Avalon is in if they can get 1 win even in losing, Atlantis is in if they can get two wins even in losing.

What does this mean, exactly?

[Sheep]

What does this mean, exactly?

I'd assume it's referring to some sort of finals round. Because the winner of Avalon vs Atlantis will have 7 wins they automatically go through. If Amazon win they also have 7 wins and therefore automatically go through. If Amazon loses then they and the loser of Avalon vs Atlantis will both have 6 wins and therefore the team with the most total wins across the entire thing will go through.

[Cyanna Cyril]

I'd assume it's referring to some sort of finals round. Because the winner of Avalon vs Atlantis will have 7 wins they automatically go through. If Amazon win they also have 7 wins and therefore automatically go through. If Amazon loses then they and the loser of Avalon vs Atlantis will both have 6 wins and therefore the team with the most total wins across the entire thing will go through.

If one of the leading nations is 7-3 and the other two are 6-3 at the end of week 10, why does the nation that won the 10 week event have to face a team that is a loss down in the championship? Will there be compensation for this to the team with the win advantage? Is it a possibility to cancel the championship series in this scenario?

Edited August 10, 2016 by Cyanna Cyril

[Deleted User]

It gets the boost.

No, it doesn't, we specifically tested this.

If one of the leading nations is 7-3 and the other two are 6-3 at the end of week 10, why does the nation that won the 10 week event have to face a team that is a loss down in the championship? Will there be compensation for this to the team with the win advantage? Is it a possibility to cancel the championship series in this scenario?

I don't understand your question.

[Sheep]

No, it doesn't, we specifically tested this.

Wait it doesn't? I swear it does, unless they've changed the way tier shift works in gen 6.

I don't understand your question.

They're asking why any nation that is alone on 7 wins at the end of the week doesn't win by default with no need for a finals round.

Edit: From the tier shift front page on the smogon forums: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-shift.3508369/

Pokemon that were previously restricted to 1 HP are no longer restricted if they get a boost to base HP (in other words Shedinja's boost is intentional).

Are you sure you didn't make a mistake in testing?

[Cyanna Cyril]

No, it doesn't, we specifically tested this.

I don't understand your question.

Okay, there are currently 3 teams tied for first right now at 6-3. It's guaranteed one of these nations will be 7-3 because Avalon and Atlantis face each other this week, who are both 6-3. Say Atlantis wins; they're now 7-3. If Amazon (6-3) loses this week to Gaia, they and Avalon will be 6-4 while Atlantis is 7-3. From the explanation at the first post, Atlantis will have to face one of the 6-4 teams in a championship, where they can lose the entire event to a team they had clearly beaten.

I don't understand why a championship series would happen instead of nations simply ending.

Also from articles I've read, Shedinja is supposed to get the HP boost.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Cyanna Cyril

[Guzam]

Shedinja does not the get boost. it's on the FAQ of tier shift. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tier-shift-oras-swift-swim-unbanned-check-post-95-for-some-info.3554765/

[Deleted User]

Okay, there are currently 3 teams tied for first right now at 6-3. It's guaranteed one of these nations will be 7-3 because Avalon and Atlantis face each other this week, who are both 6-3. Say Atlantis wins; they're now 7-3. If Amazon (6-3) loses this week to Gaia, they and Avalon will be 6-4 while Atlantis is 7-3. From the explanation at the first post, Atlantis will have to face one of the 6-4 teams in a championship, where they can lose the entire event to a team they had clearly beaten.

I don't understand why a championship series would happen instead of nations simply ending.

Also from articles I've read, Shedinja is supposed to get the HP boost.

Because that's the way this competition has been formatted from the start. The top two teams face off in a championship week. You can read back on all of the original threads when this began, it should be in there somewhere. It's essentially playoffs, only between the top two teams.

[Xiri]

Because that's the way this competition has been formatted from the start. The top two teams face off in a championship week. You can read back on all of the original threads when this began, it should be in there somewhere. It's essentially playoffs, only between the top two teams.

But it is still extremely unfair for the nation who ends up with the more number of weeks won. School is starting soon too so it will be hard for some of the players to participate or prepare.

...and I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that even when a tie occurs, the nation with the more overall wins will take the crown.

[Deleted User]

But it is still extremely unfair for the nation who ends up with the more number of weeks won. School is starting soon too so it will be hard for some of the players to participate or prepare.

...and I'm pretty sure I recall seeing that even when a tie occurs, the nation with the more overall wins will take the crown.

That's the tie breaker for the entry to the championship match.

I'm not budging on this.

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20653

This competition will go on for 10 weeks. At the end, the two Nations with the most wins will go head to head in the Championship series to determine the overall winner of PokéNations!

[Cyanna Cyril]

Because that's the way this competition has been formatted from the start. The top two teams face off in a championship week. You can read back on all of the original threads when this began, it should be in there somewhere. It's essentially playoffs, only between the top two teams.

I do not believe that is an answer, as it simply states it is that way because it is.

Also, that is not the answer to the question stated. In the hypothetical scenario given, Atlantis is the top team, at first place, with 7-3, while no other Nation has the same record, with two Nations at 6-4 in said scenario. As such, there is no team sharing the space with Atlantis. And even then, in this case, there cannot be a top two, since one Nation will be at the top, and two Nations will share the place after, rendering it to a top three. If you tie break the two third place teams, then why can't you tie break the first and new "second" place team by total wins. The championship is more a formality you'd like to have, but with the delay of a week and a week break, people now are gonna have to choose between real life and school starting up and pokenations, which there's obviously a need to take care of the prior more than the later. Week 11 seems like a poor rule to uphold when others such as consecutive battling and hard caps to weeks seem to have been cast to the dogs and forgotten. And I'm just pointing out, that although you might not budge, the nations just might choose not to listen.

[Deleted User]

I do not believe that is an answer, as it simply states it is that way because it is.

Also, that is not the answer to the question stated. In the hypothetical scenario given, Atlantis is the top team, at first place, with 7-3, while no other Nation has the same record, with two Nations at 6-4 in said scenario. As such, there is no team sharing the space with Atlantis. And even then, in this case, there cannot be a top two, since one Nation will be at the top, and two Nations will share the place after, rendering it to a top three. If you tie break the two third place teams, then why can't you tie break the first and new "second" place team by total wins. The championship is more a formality you'd like to have, but with the delay of a week and a week break, people now are gonna have to choose between real life and school starting up and pokenations, which there's obviously a need to take care of the prior more than the later. Week 11 seems like a poor rule to uphold when others such as consecutive battling and hard caps to weeks seem to have been cast to the dogs and forgotten. And I'm just pointing out, that although you might not budge, the nations just might choose not to listen.

Look at what I had posted before.

The Championship series is NOT a tie breaker, it is the Championship series. It's how the competition was designed. This would have been the case even if the first place team was 10-0 and 2nd place was 6-4. It's to keep interest rolling amongst more nations throughout the entirety of the competition and makes things all around more exciting for all.

This is not 'unfair' as it was stated in the rules all along.

[Cyanna Cyril]

Look at what I had posted before.

The Championship series is NOT a tie breaker, it is the Championship series. It's how the competition was designed. This would have been the case even if the first place team was 10-0 and 2nd place was 6-4. It's to keep interest rolling amongst more nations throughout the entirety of the competition and makes things all around more exciting for all.

This is not 'unfair' as it was stated in the rules all along.

That's not fair at all. Also, it appears some of the nations were unaware of the Week 11 until this week. Can we have a public poll by the nation leaders for this one specific situation? If it's a legitimate tie, it's one thing to settle it in a championship series, but if there's a clear winner, why are you discrediting their victory?

#PUBLICVOTEONWEEK11

[Joker]

I love how you're all just now complaining about this and not when nations started. It was designed this way from the very beginning and anyone that can read would know that. The record isn't the only thing that matters, which was also explained when nations started.

Anyway, let's all have fun.

[Deleted User]

That's not fair at all. Also, it appears some of the nations were unaware of the Week 11 until this week. Can we have a public poll by the nation leaders for this one specific situation? If it's a legitimate tie, it's one thing to settle it in a championship series, but if there's a clear winner, why are you discrediting their victory?

#PUBLICVOTEONWEEK11

It's not my fault they didn't read up on everything. It was stated in the Nations Announcement thread. I'm not changing the rules because some people chose to remain ignorant on the matter. It is in no way unfair. I've already stated multiple reasons as to why it is this way. There will be no poll. You can ask your nation rep FraRPetO. This has always been the way things are.

[Personthing]

Just stop complaining about it please, it's pointless and wastes energy. It was even on the announcement thread. So enough.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Personthing

[Guzam]

That's not fair at all.

Not fair at all

I think what isn't fair is that you didn't read the rules and are now trying to make a decision for everyone even though you aren't the only one who can win at this point. Your whole argument becomes baseless as well if Amazon ends up winning because we then have two 7-3 teams. You're also denying your team the right to win if you end up losing this week, which isn't fair either if people on your nation want a championship week too. I want you to think of everything and everyone and all the things you say before posting in here and speaking for everyone.

[Xiri]

That's the tie breaker for the entry to the championship match.

I'm not budging on this.

http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20653

Oh I did forget about that. Apologies

If Amazon loses, Avalon is in if they can get 1 win even in losing, Atlantis is in if they can get two wins even in losing.

I'm confused by this though because one of Avalon or Atlantis will definitely be in the Championship round - so why would Amazon losing matter? (Sorry my question isn't in green. I'm on mobile right now)

[Sheep]

Your whole argument becomes baseless as well if Amazon ends up winning because we then have two 7-3 teams.

Yeah but Amazon isn't going to win. :Kappa:

If Amazon loses, Avalon is in if they can get 1 win even in losing, Atlantis is in if they can get two wins even in losing.

I'm confused by this though because one of Avalon or Atlantis will definitely be in the Championship round - so why would Amazon losing matter? (Sorry my question isn't in green. I'm on mobile right now)

If when Amazon loses then their maximum possible score is 6-4 with a total of 36 wins. Therefore even if Atlantis also loses, and only get 2 wins this week then they have a record of 6-4 with 37 wins. That puts them through to the finals to play Avalon.

[Deleted User]

Oh I did forget about that. Apologies

If Amazon loses, Avalon is in if they can get 1 win even in losing, Atlantis is in if they can get two wins even in losing.

I'm confused by this though because one of Avalon or Atlantis will definitely be in the Championship round - so why would Amazon losing matter? (Sorry my question isn't in green. I'm on mobile right now)

Alright, Say Amazon Loses (3-4)

Atlantis Wins, Avalon Loses (2-5)

Atlantis (7-3)

Avalon (6-4)

Amazon (6-4)

Avalon and Amazon would then go to the first tie breaker which is total number of wins in all combined weeks. Avalon would have 38 and Amazon would have 36. Hence, as a whole Avalon has slightly outperformed Amazon throughout the course of the competition. If Amazon wins, The top two teams are 7-3. With two championship spots, there'd be no need to tie break who gets in.