Pokémon Evolution VS Darwin's Evolution, and the winner is...

[AngelGozen]

Hey, it’s me again, after a not so little while…

I posted this topic in Reborn City as I feel it could be usefull to this game, but really it's also about any other Pokémon Fan game. If it's the wrong section then I apologize, and will move it as soon as I'm asked to,

As you guys know I’m not usually one to participate much to this community, because that’s just who I am I guess, someone who just stays back and observes. That is until I find – or think of – something I feel is worth sharing.

And for those of you who remember me still, even though I rarely make any appearances, you should know by now, I like to make clear, constructed, and looooong arguments to share my thoughts.

So if you don’t want to read all of it, I suggest you go right where the big red arrow is "==>" where the most important part of my speech begins. For the bravest of you, I thank you for you reading, and hope I make it worth your while!

First of all, I should say, I’ve always been a great fan of the Pokémon universe, and its games (duh…), but I never really found complete satisfaction in the official games. I mean don’t get me wrong, they were always great, just missing that little something that keeps me hanging, thinking “what the fuck just happened? Where am I going? How am I going to win this shit?” Usually, it was always just interesting, but the stories unfolded quite easily, and mainly always the same way.

Then I discovered fan games – Romhacks and RPGMaker games – and it was a bit better, but most of the time it was still just alright. Many reasons for this, the first one being that I probably have some sort of OCD, and I don’t like romhacks that don’t have complete national dex (i.e modified pokédex to replace some Pokémon with ones from newer generations), and also because I just couldn’t take Fakemons (usually due to lack of good design). Also I kept being disappointed with aborted fan games.

And then Reborn happened. A game that was said to be mature, with a much darker theme, and that obviously was greatly cherished by its creator (s?). That’s when I really began to search for every fan game that looked interesting to me. I even found one that reconciled me with Fakemons, Pokémon Sage. It actually helped me understand that I didn’t like Fakemon when they were mingled with actual Pokémon, because they didn’t feel like they fitted. But when they were apart (AND well designed), I could actually fall in love with some of them (looking at you Avalynx).

Since gen VI and mega-evolutions, I felt the same way with fake mega-evolutions. As in “meh.. sure” but not a great fan.

==>However recently, with Pokémon Sun and Moon on the way, and all the new things that are coming, there is one that has caught my attention a great deal and that had an idea grow in my mind: Alolan forms for already existing Pokémon. (By the way, for now they’ve all been first gen unless I’m mistaken, and I do hope that some other gens will have their Alolan forms). I’ve read a few posts on this very forum, about adding them to Reborn, and how they could be introduced and such things. I have to say, I felt like people were really missing the obvious…

In my opinion, the next generation of Pokémon is a great gift to us, but more than that, it is a great gift to fan games creators. And I don’t know if I’m the only one to have seen it that way so far, but if so, then I find it weird. Alolan forms… Then maybe Reborn forms? Or whatever other fan game forms ? Someone creates a whole new game with a new region that has its own environment, weather, history and culture, could they take some of the official Pokémon and adapt them? Justifying their non-existence in other regions by the fact that they moved in and mutated/evolved.

Basically what I’m thinking right now is GameFreak has given us more than Alolan forms, they introduced Darwin’s evolution in their universe, so we can now just go ahead and diversify any species of Pokémon we like, to extend the background story and universe of any fan game – For instance, what if the Azurill line had become Poison/Fairy type in Reborn due to waters being infected for so long? So if any of you want to do that, you go ahead, and know I’m probably gonna want to play your game.

If any of you has any thoughts to share about this or any kind of same interesting thing, I’ll be reading,

Angel out~

[Sunbean]

I can see lots of Pokemon becoming poison type to adapt to the urban climate. Something else I've been thinking about recently after the Alolan forms came out was the idea of domesticated Pokemon. More feral and "ugly" battling Pokemon living near humans evolving to become cuter pet-like Pokemon to gain the affection of humans. New forms in fan games will be lots of fun, I love the Deltas in Pokemon Insurgence and Nuclear ones in Uranium and I can't wait to see what can be done with it. I just wish I had the spriting skills to try it out myself.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Sunbean

[FairFamily]

Well, I'm going to be mainly talking about reborn. So first you have the lore issue, I mean wee don't know anything about alolan forms. We don't know the conditions for alolan forms to appear. Why does exeggutor has an alolan form and exegcute doesn't but vulpix has one? Also is it regio bound due through external factors, like a stone or legendary? How long does it take to get the form, 10 years, 100 years,... ? Depending on these factors it would make it impossible for reborn to have reborn forms. I mean the cataclystic events of reborn are only around a decade old.

Second reborn is a game that tries to make the player use pkmn they have never tried. Adding reborn forms to that would be a detriment to it since they would draw away the attention to other mons.

Finally think about the effort to create it, reborn already has a slow update schedule. Adding reborn forms will take long time to sprite, implement and balance slowing down devellopment time even further.

[Sunbean]

Well, I'm going to be mainly talking about reborn. So first you have the lore issue, I mean wee don't know anything about alolan forms. We don't know the conditions for alolan forms to appear. Why does exeggutor has an alolan form and exegcute doesn't but vulpix has one? Also is it regio bound due through external factors, like a stone or legendary? How long does it take to get the form, 10 years, 100 years,... ? Depending on these factors it would make it impossible for reborn to have reborn forms. I mean the cataclystic events of reborn are only around a decade old.

Second reborn is a game that tries to make the player use pkmn they have never tried. Adding reborn forms to that would be a detriment to it since they would draw away the attention to other mons.

Finally think about the effort to create it, reborn already has a slow update schedule. Adding reborn forms will take long time to sprite, implement and balance slowing down devellopment time even further.

Definitely, at this point priority should be finishing up the main content and anything else is secondary, but exploring darwin-like evolution could be lots of fun.

It's been mentioned (though I could be wrong) that we'll have gen 7 content in this game so while it won't make sense for alolan forms to be in this game, a similar mechanic can be done. Who knows, but even if it isn't done in Reborn it will be fun to see it in other fan-made regions.

[Swampellow]

Definitely, at this point priority should be finishing up the main content and anything else is secondary, but exploring darwin-like evolution could be lots of fun.

It's been mentioned (though I could be wrong) that we'll have gen 7 content in this game so while it won't make sense for alolan forms to be in this game, a similar mechanic can be done. Who knows, but even if it isn't done in Reborn it will be fun to see it in other fan-made regions.

Well Ame has already so she is going to be adding Alola Forms she really wants that Ninetails yo

[AngelGozen]

Yeah I'm also hyped as hell by Ice/Fairy Ninetales, and a bit curious about Ghost/Fire Marowak (weird thing though from what I understand so far, Alolan Cubone is still Ground type..)

I don't believe we should consider things like "only 10 years" to be too important. We're not in the real world, in my opinion, we're given the possibility to play around and bend the rules...

Also keep in mind I'm not only talking about Alolan forms Swampellow We're talking about creating our own new forms for our own fanmade regions - be it Reborn, or any other Fan Game.

[PokeFailure]

This whole can of worms is gonna lead to a lot of fakemon/different forms.

I can see it happening for Reborn, but not until post game.

[Ironbound]

Pokémon evolution is not like Darwinian evolution, since it deals with a process more akin to metamorphosis. The form change on individuated Pokemon is most like insectoid complete metamorphosis, perhaps best compared to the 'evolution' line of the route 1 bugs on every game. Pokémon being beings of energy and not really the same kind of matter as humans seems to support this feature, as Energy can convert itself to other forms to assume different properties.

And as for all this alolan form muck, I don't know and I don't want to. I'll be back in DPPt if anyone wants to find me.

[NickCrash]

GF has delved into Darwinian evolution when they introduced Gen5 with pokemon similar to others from earlier generaton, similar enough to keep a link of a common ancestor, yet different enough to be their own species. Notable examples are Bouffalant and Tauros, Alomomola and Luvdisk. That is where the concept of adaptation for survival is highlighted and actually makes sense, since this normally takes millions of years to happen.

Different formes hint more towards human intervention, pretty much like what we've done with the many dog breeds, while still keeping them at the same species so their descendants can reproduce. Like Rotom, which takes a new form based on the appliance it 'haunts', these creatures might have gone through a similar procedure, by human breeding to produce the most suitable companions that either keep company, or are good house guardians or produce food more efficiently. That argument could also be made about the Kanto formes, as evolution works at the same time in both areas, Alola and Kanto, so in the case of Exeggutor, the Kanto forme could be the one bred by humans (or adapted at the same time to survive), without going too far away from its origins.

Drastic changes like the Sandshrew line, I cannot explain, because it does not keep a common trait besides the appearance for it to be justified. I believe it would be much better if they just introduced a new pokemon there. I mean, I can find ways to connect ghost/fire for the Kanto Marowak, but as for the Alolan one, my hands are tied.