Reborn EV Training vs Casual Play

[Caraboo]

So as a casual player who indiscriminately battles and grinds against anything and anyone I come across, I got to wondering if there really is a difference for a person who puts in the time to rest for good natures, and carefully battling Pokemon to raise their EV's, vs a plain Jane like me.

I've had my fair share of troubles and hard battles, sometimes due to cheap crits, but mostly it was ill-preparedness and some of my team choices that, I will admit, I could probably get some better Pokes on my main team. But, even playing slowly for my own sanity, I managed to beat Reborn up to episode 15 after perish song prankster murkrow hax bc screw that mega altaria a very well thought out and long battle with Ciel.

Feel free to share your thoughts, I'm curious!

[ArcsyKay]

Well the EVs do change your team's power. I would suggest to EV train your pokemon if you want to get through the game nice and smooth.
If you wanna go casual then that's your choice.

Considering that Reborn is a rather competitive game when it comes to team making, you would simply have a hard time like you described.

Edited August 14, 2016 by KisuoX

[Sheep]

I've done a run with no EV training, and another run with EV training and I can tell you on the first one that M-Altaria was almost impossible for me to beat as well. Perhaps my team was just naturally weak to M-Altaria, or perhaps the game is getting towards the point at which non EV trained teams just won't cut it anymore. Something I can tell you is the difference when you do EV train is massive, you'll absolutely blow through any random trainers you find because they aren't EV trained themselves.

[Dreamy]

Personally, I tried to go for good natures but never really worried about EVs or IVs and I got through episode 15 without too much difficulty, and nothing cheesy for any hard fights or boss pokemon so I don't think its necessary at all, but I'm guessing it would certainly help.

[Commander]

There are people like me who literally go: Screw EVs, IVs, nature, and abilities because I don't need them. I barely had any trouble and most of my EVs and IVs were defense in my Episode 15 run of course a lot of the mons I used got pushed back a little ways so you'd have to work to use them (though that Trapinch took forever to get).

Speaking of that Altaria, I actually had a bit of trouble with that (the rest of Ciel was easy) because it kept sing spamming me before knocking my mons out. That...and I was really underleveled all the way through reborn. Like 68-70 for my end team underleveled. But yeah don't worry about perfectionism since that hardly effects the difficulty (sure it might make it easier but the actual difference isn't worth the effort) as the Pokemon choice has a much greater impact on difficulty. That is also why you should always carry a mon with Sturdy as well since it does wonders.

[Vil]

I have beat the game 4 times already and i never did EVs training.I did only once on my main game play when i finished the game.

The only thing that i did it was to check for decent IVs with soft resets on specific pokemons (18 ivs+ depends on the pokemon on their offensive stats mostly and speed) that was all.

The first time was only really hard since i didnt knew what to expect... the trick to beat this game is just to build a decent team which is able to cover and counter every type of pokemon nothing else.

You dont have to care nor for natures (since you can change em on the 7th street) nor for the abilities (cause of the capsules)

Edited August 14, 2016 by Vil

[Caraboo]

You dont have to care nor for natures (since you can change em on the 7th street)

I... actually had no idea I could do that. Is changing natures worth doing it?

There are people like me who literally go: Screw EVs, IVs, nature, and abilities because I don't need them. I barely had any trouble and most of my EVs and IVs were defense in my Episode 15 run of course a lot of the mons I used got pushed back a little ways so you'd have to work to use them (though that Trapinch took forever to get).

Speaking of that Altaria, I actually had a bit of trouble with that (the rest of Ciel was easy) because it kept sing spamming me before knocking my mons out. That...and I was really underleveled all the way through reborn. Like 68-70 for my end team underleveled. But yeah don't worry about perfectionism since that hardly effects the difficulty (sure it might make it easier but the actual difference isn't worth the effort) as the Pokemon choice has a much greater impact on difficulty. That is also why you should always carry a mon with Sturdy as well since it does wonders.

Well that makes me feel a lot better, honestly. I honestly probably over level because of things just like that Altaria. My current goal is to get some poison and steel types up to 70 before episode 16 comes out so I can deal with our lovely time traveler Adrienn. I just stress about my levels so much!

Honestly Ciel holds the record for the Worst thing I've had to deal with in Reborn yet. It was a struggle to get past her first two mons, much less the Mega. That's why I brought Murkrow.

[Vil]

On 7th street there is a psycologist just talk to him and he will change your pokemons natures for a heart scale if i remember right.

Just do few soft resets till you get the right nature.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Vil

[Caraboo]

On 7th street there is a psycologist just talk to him and he will change your pokemons natures for a heart scale if i remember right.

Just do few soft resets till you get the right nature.

If it's for a heart scale then hmmm. I'd rather teach my Pokemon moves than mess with nature. Especially since my rotation team is constantly growing. Handy to know, though, just in case.

[PokeFailure]

I struggled for the first few gyms, (Though I hadn't played pokemon in a while and I was used to easy games)

Reborn basically forced me to become a better pokemoner, Git gud or get K.Oed.

I still haven't bothered with IVs or EVs. or natures. I just grind my pokemon until they're gym ready. Praise ame for the grand hall trainers

You don't NEED them but I can see doing it for pokemon that are always on your team.

[Jay.P.]

Usually I tend to breed for Pokemon with relatively high IVs, change the nature to either Adamant, Modest, Jolly or Timid, train them up and then reduce the offensive stat I don't need for something that focuses on just one offensive stat to 0, or reduce both defensive stats by about half for mixed attackers, however I mostly try to get the Speed as high as possible.

[DemICE]

well one can certainly beat the game with no ev training or targeting high IVs, but they do help quite.

after a point, EV training is really so simple that in my opinion is very worth it, because of power bracer, power lens, and power anklet.

so you just go to peridot ward under a bridge, where there are 2 woobat patches. and you battle them over and over holding either power bracer (for attack) or lens (for special attack). when they reach 252, u switch to anklet to finish with speed, and then you are done. for every pokemon that has at least 2 attacks with 20 PP or more, the process should take very very little time (2-3 pokecenter heals per pokemon. i even teach them moves like cut for this and then replace them afterwards) (i use cheat engine to speed up the game x5 too since there is no fastforward button like at emulators).

Edited August 14, 2016 by DemICE

[ty_taurus]

If it's for a heart scale then hmmm. I'd rather teach my Pokemon moves than mess with nature. Especially since my rotation team is constantly growing. Handy to know, though, just in case.

That's a plausible argument, but you get so many heart scales through hidden items and soft-reset mining that I wouldn't consider a nature reset expensive. Remember that heart scales are only for move relearning, not tutors. Relearning can sometimes be very helpful, but it's usually only helpful once, and then you'll have all the moves that you want from that Pokemon since that move pool doesn't expand to anything that you didn't have access to through level up. Unless you're rotating like 25 Pokemon, I doubt you'll run out of heart scales. I have so many, I don't know what to do with them all.

I tend to soft-reset for decent IVs on my Pokes. I tend to want 15+ in the stats I particularly care about for that Pokemon. Before the Pokemon Psychologist, I'd reset for a nature that didn't hinder me, like I wouldn't want adamant on my special attacker. Generally, any nature with a penalty in attack is good for a special attacker, and any nature with a penalty in special attack is good for a physical attacker. You don't really want a penalty in either defenses since it makes you easier to kill, and speed is only valid on slow Pokes that you want to exploit trick room or Gyro ball with. After getting the right penalty, I'm not too picky with the stat that benefits from my nature.

With EVs, a really easy way to do it is to grab the Power items from the department store. I believe you need 4 stickers to get them? Correct me if I'm wrong. They add 4 EVs of a specific stat, depending on which item your Pokemon holds, after every battle. So if you have an Espeon, for example, toss on the Power Lens, and you'll just be building Special Attack EVs while you fight wild Pokemon and trainers. It does limit your Speed while equipped though, so just take it off when you go in for hard battles like Team Meteor bosses or Gym Leaders. Your EVs won't be perfect, but they'll be very close to it by the time stat reduction berries become available (which is after the end of the current episode at the moment, unless you mess around with old episodes). These berries remove EVs, which you could then use to remove the small amount of EVs you've built outside of your core, and quickly finish them off. You don't NEED this if you're using strong Pokemon, but I like to use much weaker Pokemon like Corsola, Furret, and Togetic, so the EVs really help me. Without the max attack EVs, my Furret would probably be dead weight. With it, he can do some really hard damage with Double-Edge and take out glass cannons that he would otherwise fail to kill.

[Caraboo]

That's a plausible argument, but you get so many heart scales through hidden items and soft-reset mining that I wouldn't consider a nature reset expensive. Remember that heart scales are only for move relearning, not tutors. Relearning can sometimes be very helpful, but it's usually only helpful once, and then you'll have all the moves that you want from that Pokemon since that move pool doesn't expand to anything that you didn't have access to through level up. Unless you're rotating like 25 Pokemon, I doubt you'll run out of heart scales. I have so many, I don't know what to do with them all.

I tend to soft-reset for decent IVs on my Pokes. I tend to want 15+ in the stats I particularly care about for that Pokemon. Before the Pokemon Psychologist, I'd reset for a nature that didn't hinder me, like I wouldn't want adamant on my special attacker. Generally, any nature with a penalty in attack is good for a special attacker, and any nature with a penalty in special attack is good for a physical attacker. You don't really want a penalty in either defenses since it makes you easier to kill, and speed is only valid on slow Pokes that you want to exploit trick room or Gyro ball with. After getting the right penalty, I'm not too picky with the stat that benefits from my nature.

With EVs, a really easy way to do it is to grab the Power items from the department store. I believe you need 4 stickers to get them? Correct me if I'm wrong. They add 4 EVs of a specific stat, depending on which item your Pokemon holds, after every battle. So if you have an Espeon, for example, toss on the Power Lens, and you'll just be building Special Attack EVs while you fight wild Pokemon and trainers. It does limit your Speed while equipped though, so just take it off when you go in for hard battles like Team Meteor bosses or Gym Leaders. Your EVs won't be perfect, but they'll be very close to it by the time stat reduction berries become available (which is after the end of the current episode at the moment, unless you mess around with old episodes). These berries remove EVs, which you could then use to remove the small amount of EVs you've built outside of your core, and quickly finish them off. You don't NEED this if you're using strong Pokemon, but I like to use much weaker Pokemon like Corsola, Furret, and Togetic, so the EVs really help me. Without the max attack EVs, my Furret would probably be dead weight. With it, he can do some really hard damage with Double-Edge and take out glass cannons that he would otherwise fail to kill.

That's also true! I've just been collecting a lot of new 'mons for a larger and more efficient rotation team to help in more situations (some of which are entirely theoretical but hey, it couldn't hurt) and some of that level grinding has included several move re learner trips. Though I still do have plenty of heart scales and can go get more, I've only got 9 at the moment due to that. Maybe I should take a break from grinding and do some digging instead.

I do have all the stickers, though due to my laziness in EV training I never picked them up, considering the Pokemon I use most are already full up of EV's, just not well trained EV's. Which kinda makes most of them glass canons anyways.

That's neat that you're running with different Pokemon too! Good luck with that.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Caraboo

[ArthurZH]

This is just me, but I DO indeed reset for IVs and Natures. I don't need 31/31/31/31/31/31, but I'm definitely not having a, for instance, Blaziken with something like 1/0/15/0/28/0 IVs with Gentle or something.

This, however, is only true for mons I decide to use at all. I don't do this to every single Weedle, Caterpie or Rattata I see (OK maybe Rattata since Hustle Rat is strong af)

I don't EV train specifically until I really lack fire power, in which what i typically do is just buy the EV reducing berries and plow on forward. Typically I end up with mons having somehow monstrous EVs in Atk, and I usually buy the Atk Berries to reduce them so they can have space for other EVs somewhere else.

[yooorick]

I did my playthrough with no EV training, minimal care in IVs (basically at least double digits for important stats was good enough for me) and no hindering natures in important stats. I did switch natures when I was able to though.

[Azodian]

With very early access to the EV training gear, I didn't see any reason not to train my team. When I built my new team for episode 16, I bred for IVs and EV trained them. If you train with the use of a Pickup team, you can end up with a huge surplus of healing items as well.

[5hift]

Nah.

Maybe pay attention to abilities and natures because those are pretty easy to change but EVs and IVs aren't totally necessary.

Maybe when you finish episode 15 and you're satisfied with the team you have you can prepare a bit by EV training.

[Anstane]

I never bothered with IV, EV or nature training/changing/breeding. I guess because I prefer more of a "Pure" playstyle, letting my Pokemon be what they are instead of training them to be what I want them to be. I did relent on Ability Capsules, though, I think I only used 2 so far (I KNOW I used one to change Arcanine's ability to Flash Fire for Charlotte). It really does come down to the player, how they want to play the game. Yes, I will admit that all of the above do help, but like I said, I'd rather have a natural team rather then a purpose-bred and trained one.

[Timber Dragon]

I do reset for decent IVs and nature, but I think it's more for my own peace of mind than because they make a huge difference. I'm honestly not sure if they're a huge deal in Reborn, but I do it anyway because better safe than sorry, I guess. EVs I'm far more lax about. I'll do some tweaks with power bracers and friendship berries if I feel like I need to, but I'm not concerned about perfection. I never did like micromanaging stats (one of the reasons I could never get into competitive battling)

[DemICE]

lets strap a beautifly on the experimentation table and start dissecting it.

5 sp.atk IVs, adamant nature, 80 sp.atk EVs --> 207 spA

15 sp.atk IVs, bashful nature, 120 sp.atk EVs --> 250 spA (if you do not EV train, you will not go above 120 EVs easily. spA is scarce. almost always, your special attacker will be stuck having like 150 EVs on attack, and less than 100 on spA)

31 sp.atk IVs , modest nature, 252 sp.atk EVs --> 328 spA

experiment 1 happens much more often than you think, if you just catch the first pokemon you find and stick with it.

experiment 2 happens often enough, but from my personal experience, it is on the rarer side, despite its absolute mediocrity

expeeriment 3 ... well ...

an optimal or close to optimal beautifly will deal 30%-60% more damage than the beautifly that 80% of casuals would normally get.

-----------

now if you take experiment 1, which you can very likely get, (see? im not even promting you to go IV hunting) which is arguably awful, and do simple stuff like changing its nature to modest when you get access to psychologist, and take 2-3 pokecenter trips of EV training at woobats when you get access to power items (how much time can that take), your 207 spA will become 300.

thats an almost 50% increase in your damage. that means, that instead of soft-resetting 20 times on charlotte, because your attack leaves her pokemon with 30% of hp remaining, you might only need to soft-reset 5 or less times.
then think about the total number of situations where a 50% damage increase will save you precious time, from seconds, to minutes (because things went south and you needed to soft-reset or if you are a masochist, white out and go back).

so yeah, you invest 2-3 pokecenter runs for each of your team members and maybe some psychologist visits for the nature *once*, and you suddenly have a much more functional team, which might save you more time than you invested, plus the added benefit of actually feeling badass.

Edited August 15, 2016 by DemICE

[Commander]

Demice, I really honestly wish training and team designing was really that simple, but unfortunately it isn't. The biggest influence on how good a Pokemon will be is by it's nature as it's honestly the most influential believe it or not. EVs I generally treat as that extra punch to make certain mons stronger or bulkier but it's really hard to notice 252/252/4 spreads instead of let's say a 252/128/128 split. IVs on the other hand don't really make that much of a difference unless they're super low or super high.

This is where games different from the metagame as almost all of your opponents will have a speed advantage in which I generally add a little bit of bulk since 2 slightly weaker hits are often stronger and effective than a single super strong hit. So if you infest all of your EVs into straight up attack for a mon with some good bulk behind it, you could in reality just have let it be one shotted vs having all your evs being spread. Though Glass Cannons do not need bulk evs since they're going to be one shotted by almost anything anyways (unless there needs to be a few to survive a certain degree of attacks).

My knowledge doesn't come from numbers but from experience in running a full range of mons with different kinds of spreads as well as plenty of enemy team designing. You can read and throw numbers at me all you want, but pretty much I will tell you that people who keep and eye and avoid super weak/hindering EVs, IVs, and natures, though not focused on it, are almost going to be just as fine as those who focus on perfecting them since the difficulty between those two ranges is nonexistant.

[DemICE]

yeah i agree that nature is influential, especially if you go from a negative to a positive nature. this means going 200>220>240

IVs is generally the least influencial, and noticable only when you compare the performances of a 'mon with garbage IVs, with a pokeon with super high IVs across all their stats.

EVs actually offer the biggest boost in a stat (252 EVs is 63 stat points at lv100), but i find them a bit of a double edged sword. in competitive, things are kinda simple, since EV spreads for different pokemon are made by nerds (im one too though :X) who invested long enough time to calculate KO ranges and specific outspeeds for everything

but in game, it is really just random. i might have an awesome 252atk/252speed offense, but it means that both the power and speed are so redundant most of the times that i make my 'mon squishier for no reason, and it could maybe use some defense to avoid death in certain situations (pulse fights, overpowering opponents like arceus, mewtwo or dimensional rift pokemon come to mind).

but then again, if you have a full offense team with good overall coverage, it would mean that you can always switch the right pokemon on an enemy to do supereffective damage. and at the majority of times, a supereffective hit from 252 offense positive nature, is a one hit KO, except if the attacking pokemon does not have such high natural offenses, since there is no enemy in game with defensive EVs, and if the pokemon has naturally high defesive stats, it will usually not have the power to KO you back.

so i guess its a matter of preference.. i preffer to be able to KO the biggest part of the game before it even touches me. rather than decrease my offense that might deprive me some of those KOs and hurt me back. then again there is the trouble of doing the EV training...

[ty_taurus]

yeah i agree that nature is influential, especially if you go from a negative to a positive nature. this means going 200>220>240

IVs is generally the least influencial, and noticable only when you compare the performances of a 'mon with garbage IVs, with a pokeon with super high IVs across all their stats.

EVs actually offer the biggest boost in a stat (252 EVs is 63 stat points at lv100), but i find them a bit of a double edged sword. in competitive, things are kinda simple, since EV spreads for different pokemon are made by nerds (im one too though :X) who invested long enough time to calculate KO ranges and specific outspeeds for everything

but in game, it is really just random. i might have an awesome 252atk/252speed offense, but it means that both the power and speed are so redundant most of the times that i make my 'mon squishier for no reason, and it could maybe use some defense to avoid death in certain situations (pulse fights, overpowering opponents like arceus, mewtwo or dimensional rift pokemon come to mind).

but then again, if you have a full offense team with good overall coverage, it would mean that you can always switch the right pokemon on an enemy to do supereffective damage. and at the majority of times, a supereffective hit from 252 offense positive nature, is a one hit KO, except if the attacking pokemon does not have such high natural offenses, since there is no enemy in game with defensive EVs, and if the pokemon has naturally high defesive stats, it will usually not have the power to KO you back.

so i guess its a matter of preference.. i preffer to be able to KO the biggest part of the game before it even touches me. rather than decrease my offense that might deprive me some of those KOs and hurt me back. then again there is the trouble of doing the EV training...

This kinda thing is why I chose to ran HP EVs on more sweeper-esque Pokemon like my Furret. It's EVs aren't perfect yet, since I haven't returned for my EV berries in this play through, but I'll end up with 252 in attack for damage, and split the rest between HP and Speed, so I can outrun a few faster things as well as take hits better.

[Shinki]

My first run is a casual one, with which I had a hard time against pretty much half of the Gym Leaders. That's probably because I underestimated Pokémon Reborn in the first place... But that only makes things better! I'm glad to finally have to try&die and then plan a strategy before every important battle.

I'm planning on making another run where I'll probably soft-reset for natures / IVs and such, and probably make a better team overall because my team right now is quite weak. ;-;

So yeah, you may be able to finish any Pokémon game easily, even without EV training your team and such, but Pokémon Reborn is smart and vicious enough to make one think twice about their methods.