Questions about nerfs on Gyms,and gym talk

[Grimstringer]

after i beat a gym leader which made me have a hard time, i rejoice, watch /read how other people beat them, and stuff like that

iv been noticing nerf/prenerfs or no fields

so that means some gym leaders are easier (or harder?) than they used to be

as a masochist id like them to be as hard as possible (i never use potions,i like being underleveled ,prefer not to change my team unless it's really impossible etc)

so playing episode 15, am i missing some really hard battles? would be worth playing the fights in their hardest implementation ? (could i like load my save in a old episode just to fight, iv seen people mentioning this for catching pokemon that arent available in the latest episode)

is it worth it? or are they really broken so that's why they got nerfed?

i'd like mentions of Gym leader nerfs, or buffs, changes in their teams etc

iv played to Shade so far, beat him yesterday. i had a hard time at shelly (i hate double fights, i also had a hard time in the tangrowth double fight) and shade took many tries to beat (without changing my team, just playing tactically,team lvl was 38,37,36,35,34,30 after the fight)

im eager for your replies

edit : IMPORTANT! keep it as spoiler free as possible, i dont want to ruin my experience, i dont want to know what types they use,what pokemon what strategy or types, just mentions of names and easier/harder, pokemon changed/field added/got buffed etc if possible please

(i should probably have made this thread after i complete the episode, oh well )

Edited September 13, 2016 by Grimstringer

[sound of silence]

Shade is definitely harder in episode 14, and far more worthwhile to defeat due to a better SPOILER offered.

Serra...I would actually say is harder in episode 14 too, despite a lack of SPOILER, certainly offers more a challenge. She's supposed to be even harder in really early episodes due to being a SPOILER, but has been a bit nerfed since then.

Charlotte is a hell of a lot harder in earlier iterations, and has been scaled progressively down since episode...12?

They are the ones I personally know of from playing episode 14, since I never played earlier episodes.

[Timber Dragon]

I don't know the ins and outs of every change, but I know that the Swellow for the Normal-type leader had Guts + a Flame Orb, letting Facade utterly wreck you. In the unlikely event you ever got past that unholy bird, he had a Staraptor immediately after, I think with Reckless + Brave Bird, just in case Fighting-types weren't being punished enough.

The inclusion of field effects changed a lot of leader's strategies, making them easier or harder depending on your team and whether you know how to use the field to your own advantage, or at least get rid of it. For me, Julia got a little harder though is still manageable, while Florinia got a lot easier, though her Cradily will still punish you without a good Fighting- or Bug-type. In fact, back in the day, Florinia was considered one of the early game's biggest roadblocks (well, she was a roadblock for me).

imo Corey, Shade, and possibly Serra (Ice-type leader) are harder, or at least more annoying, than they used to be. I thought Corey was tough even back in the day, but with the field effect he's brutal. It boosts Venoshock to max without the target needing to be poisoned, and activates other positive Poison-related abilities. What's worse is that you can't fully get rid of it -- the best you can do is use Gust or whatever to turn the Corrosive Mist into just a regular Corrosion field... which still activates Venoshock and those other abilities.

I don't know what Shade was like in ep 14, as I stopped playing maybe around ep 12-13 ish and came back only a few months ago, but Shade seemed much harder than I remember. In fact, after I came back to the game, he's the one who broke my winning streak -- rather, his Chandelure broke my winning streak. That thing was tough to begin with, but good grief, with that field Chandelure alone can easily sweep your team if you let it.

Serra is a mixed bag. She used to have an Avalugg iir, but it was replaced with something else more manageable. Her field effect is more infuriating than challenging because it centers around accuracy and critical buffs, which are at the mercy of the RNG. At the same time, because she takes advantage of her field, her team doesn't use many Ice-type moves. Thankfully it can be easily broken and turned into a neutral field. I do it ASAP because her field is easily my least favorite in all of Reborn.

Overall I think that because gym leaders have field effects to use for their strategies, their teams can afford to be a little weaker, and so got some nerfs here and there. After all, back in the day their teams had to carry all the weight, and boy did they ever. That said, I didn't appreciate the field effects at first. I thought it affected your playing style in a way that's not... legitimate for Pokemon, I guess? But after I started playing with them and got used to them -- how they impact me and how I can use them to my advantage -- I now enjoy the added edge they give to the game.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Timber Dragon

[DemICE]

if you are a masochist, you can always try the Hardcore mod of reborn. Haven't played it myself (i will when it gets updated to E16), but apparently they try to make things as hard as humanely possible

Edited September 13, 2016 by DemICE

[Commander]

Tbh, it's really hard to tell you whether or not leaders are harder or easier, but nearly all the leaders bar Shelly and Radomus have been viewed as difficult one point or another. It's just been adapting more towards the field effect gimmick for many of the leader team changes, but it's still a little bit of a work in progress. Just think of future episodes just rebalancing the game to make the difficulty consistent. Reborn is a really hard game compared to the main games so I wouldn't fret too much on the difficulty.

if you are a masochist, you can always try the Hardcore mod of reborn. Haven't played it myself (i will when it gets updated to E16), but apparently they try to make things as hard as humanely possible

The game originally was planned to be like that...until I took over. I'd say it's more of a mix between old and new Reborn (plus the infamous Commander touches as you'll learn) to satisfy the people who craved difficulty of Pre-nerf Charlotte and Aya.

[Tartar]

Another thing to note though is that a lot of the powerhouse Pokémon like Gyarados have been removed from the earlier episodes, so now the quality of the Mons available has gone down. But yeah, overall the difficulty of nearly every gym leader has been toned down by EP15.

[doombotmecha]

just wanted to pop in to say that the variety of mon quality among gym leaders is one of the reasons I hold this fangame above others. You aren't just pulling a dark souls where you get trash while your opponents are titans, both sides have interesting and varied compositions that aren't seen in other games.

as said above, if you want hard, check out the hardcore mod.

[Govictory]

yeah the gyms were abit of a push over for the most part

but hardcore exists for a reason you know.... because suffering is magical~

[CheddarSouffle]

Krickotot should really be axed.

Honestly.

[Ryxus]

I haven't played any episodes before 15, but the 15 gyms, depending on your team and the movesets of them, are kind of a push over.