Steel and Sociopathy: When "Strong Female Character" Goes Wrong

[Lord Chespin]

Hey. Before I start, I just want to say two things.

One, this is just my opinion. It's okay if you disagree with it.

Second, there are spoilers in here for Pokemon Reborn, up to Episode 15. So, uh, if you haven't beaten the game up to Episode 15 yet, don't read this.

And with that over with, it's time for me to vent my spleen about my least favorite Reborn Character.

~~~~

So, Titania.

A lot of people like her. Amethyst has admitted that Titania is her favorite character. On first glance, it's not too hard to see why. When you first read her diary in Onyx Trainer School, it actually calls you out for peeking into her personal life. I admit, I liked that. Later on, you find out she took in Amaria when Amaria was suicidally depressed, and even though she didn't love her she tried to stay in a relationship with her to keep her happy. She even jumped down a waterfall to make sure she was safe. At the end of Episode 14, I thought she was a nice enough person, albeit a little out-of-focus.

Then Episode 15 happened.

Now, I think I know what Amethyst was trying to get at with her character. She's supposed to be a subversion of fairy tale cliches, with the "Damsel in Distress" actually being able to hold her own and being fair more capable than her rescuer. I can kind of see this happening in game: when you meet up with her at the Water Treatment Plant, she's already killed a couple grunts, an impressive feat since she's only got one Pokemon on her.

However, let's take a look back at that last statement.

"She's already killed a couple grunts."

"Killed."

And that, my friends, is where my hatred of Titania stems from: her sociopathy. No, I'm not kidding. She checks out on quite a few of the bullet points on the Dr Hare psychopathic checklist. To Wit:

Gib and Superficial Charm: She pretended to be lesbian for years to keep Amaria from killing herself. I think that counts.

Grandoise self-worth:

Need for stimulation and proneness to boredom:

Pathological Lying: She's been feeding Team Meteror lies for months, as revealed in the climax of Episode 15.

Conning and Manipulativeness: Again, wooing Amaria to keep her from committing suicide.

Lack of Remorse or Guilt: Mows down pretty much the entirety of the staff of the Meteor-controlled Water Treatment Center without so much as blinking.

Shallow Effect: Amaria's diary reveals that she doesn't feel anything.

Callousness and Lack of Empathy: Absolutely refuses to see Taka's point of view, and tells him to turn his back on his father, who has been known to murder people in the blink of an eye. She also refuses to acknowledge that she seriously hurt Florina's feelings, calling it "overreacting".

Parasitic Lifestyle: Instead of getting help for her friend, she lived with her, and presumably mooched off of her as well.

Poor Behavioral Control: Murders Grunts because their team took Amaria, even if the grunts themselves did nothing, and it's implied she blew up on Florina once.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior: Not really shown, but she did pretend to be lesbian when it's implied she's straight of asexual, so...

Early Behavioral Problems: Again, not really shown, but her blowing up on Florina presumably counts.

Lack of Realistic, Long-Term Goals: Her only real goal is "Keep Amaria safe". Nothing else.

Impulsivity: Again, she murdered people with no second thought, and jumped off a waterfall after Amaria.

Irresponsibility:

Failure to Accept Responsibility for Own Actions: Refuses to acknowledge her role in Florina detaching herself from her emotions, or her role in Amaria committing suicide.

Many Short-Term Martial Relationships: Ditches her friends after leaving the OTS, and expresses frustration that Amaria became attached to her again at the end of Episode 15.

Juvenile Delinquency:

Revocation of Conditional Release:

Criminal Versatility: Again, murder.

That's 15 out of 20; seems like a pretty strong correlation to me. Now, if Amethyst did this intentionally, congrats; you've made a well-made sociopathic hero. Nice job. However, if she didn't, then I think we've got a major problem here, and that's the erroneous belief that to be "tough" or "badass", you need to be a killer.

This is not true in the slightest. Her justifications that "Team Meteor stops at nothing to achieve their goals, so why should I" is flawed, based on the fact that Team Meteor stopping at nothing to achieve their goals is what makes them so evil in the first place! They're willing to ruin the standard of living of Reborn's citizens and kill pretty much the entire population of Reborn to achieve their goals, hence why they're a menace and need to be stopped! By lowering yourself to their levels, you're just as monstrous as they are! Ever hear the phrase "he who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster"? It means that you should be careful not to let the actions you take to fight evil make you no different from the evil you're fighting. Titania is deep into monster-city by now.

Now, I know some people are going to say "Oh, you just don't like seeing empowered females!". That is not true in the slightest. I don't care what gender the empowered character identifies as- male, female, non-binary, attack helicopter- if they're a mass-murdering sociopath, I will object. Let it be known that Titania is not a strong female character- in fact, one could argue that her bloodlust makes her less strong than people like Charlotte or Laura, who (despite the easiness of the violent option) are able to take the nonviolent option.

However, I will admit, the game ain't over yet. Somebody could call her out on this, and she could change; that would redeem her in my eyes. But for now, based on what we know about Titania, I've come to the conclusion that she is a horrible, horrible human being.

[Lilleen]

I feel like the whole sewer part of this game wasn't executed in the right way. It makes it seem as though it is perfectly alright to murder people who have done nothing to you. Which it is not.

I get what Ame was going for with the whole "bad-guys-can-be-the-victims-as-well" and "not-every-good-guy-acts-like-a-good-guy", but with Titania, it goes a bit too far for my taste. Even when Taka pointed this out to her, she was like "Oh ..." and thats about it!

... you know what, I've given up on the whole deal with Titania at this point. She's not my type of character. Guess I gotta live with that. Let it be known that I hold nothing against people who like her character. I just ... don't.

[mde2001]

I don't think Titania was written a way where we were meant to be agreeing with all of her actions. She is deeply flawed and does show some sociopathic tendencies. We're not left thinking of her as a complete villain, but she isn't meant to be the representation of good.

However where I disagree with you is that a character needs to be a good human being to be a good character. Titania isn't my favourite by any stretch of the imagination but she is interesting. She's willing to do whatever it takes to achieve here goals, which leads her to act in a completely immoral manner at times, but she's also shown to be very loyal to those she cares about.

So would I want to know her in real life? Absolutely not, but I still think she has her merits as a very flawed character. I'm almost certain Ame wrote the scenes in the WTC in a way that we'd understand Titania's motivation towards violence without necessarily agreeing with it.

[Combat]

I'm just trying to figure out how the hell she uses an Aegislash as a weapon. Honedge's are said to drain peoples life force, so you'd think that would apply to the rest of the line...

Honestly, I don't like Titania. After going through the water treatment area, I was left thinking that I had just helped a murderous edgelord (literally and figuratively) save a woman from the people who had been taking care of her. While most of the cast has quirky or realistic personalities, Titania just feels... There. Like she's here to serve a purpose to the plot and nothing else. If she were, say, cast as a villain or something, things would be different and this is coming from the game when we see the "good guys" torturing a suspected terrorist within the first hour of game play. I don't see the appeal or the reason for her existence.

This is coming from the guy who doesn't like Terra either for completely different reasons, so its best to take in personal preference too. Everyone has an opinion, and sometimes they murder grunts.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I'm personally of the opinion that, liking a character that is falwed etc... is fine so long as you understand the shit they are doing is NOT okay by any means. Often, characters that are flawed etc people look up or take as examples of ways to be, which tends to not be the the point of the writing of said character.

I do like the mention or allusion to the trope of "He who slays monsters" since due to my limited knowledge of the character, seems to be easily where Titania slots as a character. She is hardly a good person, narratively I find her quite interesting from what I've seen and read on the forums having not played the game, however, as a person... her behavior is quite appalling. She as a person is not a good one despite her intentions to be so. And I think this dichotomy makes her very interesting to people.

Anti-Heros are highly liked in the situation where you see their actions and do not play them out. It's actually why Anti-heros tend to never be the focus of a game as the protagonist even in triple A titles. The reason why in media of other types such as film, anime, books etc can pull of anti-heros is because we ourselves never face the ramifications of their actions. We can disconnect from the shitty things they are doing because we ourselves do not do them. However, we all have those thoughts of "What if I did kill this person?" etc... Seeing the anti-hero from a perspective that isn't direct, but an outsider looking in makes them very appealing.

They do and say the things one only wishes they could do. But, that's why being in direct control of them in games doesn't work for people as easily. Because in that scenario, you can't hide from the repercussions of your actions. It's easy to FEEL just how awful the things you are doing are. ((personally this was my issue with a game known as Watch_Dogs. They tried to protray a character who is.. actually an awful person a a good guy and the disconnect there really bothered me.)) You can feel just how terrible the actions you are taking are rather than see the fantasy, you see it, but you feel how awful it can make you feel, that's it isn't really what you wanted.

I think this in particular is what draws many people to characters like Titania. You see on the surface what she's doing and without thinking into it deeply, she's massively appealing. On the surface she seems strong, impenetrable, like someone who will do what others are not willing to do to protect others. However, the deeper one looks the more the facade crumbles.

Narratively, I think Titania is one of the better written characters because she's horribly flawed in what she does. I think as long as it's understood you REALLY shouldn't look up to her in any regard that like of her isn't a bad thing. It's when one tries to excuse the flaws when there's no reason you should excuse their actions. Titania from the things I know Is not a good person and is not a person you should want to be. She is someone who's fallen from grace, a cautionary tale more or less. She still has time to be redeemed I suppose, but... to me she a character I don't feel deserves to be redeemed. Narratively, I think her fate is sealed, as someone who tried to do the right things, but in the end, only temporarily solved the issues around her. Put off momentary pains, for grief that would only come back to strike 10 fold once it caught up to the lies. So, to me, she's vastly interesting. But, as a person I do not like her. For her role within the narrative I think she fits so well it almost is uncanny. I love her from that perspective but as a person... I really couldn't ever say she was a good one or a redeemable one.

I will note, I think the thing here is Titania is chasing the illusion of what strength is, the raw physical version. The very very narrow definition. That strength is only the ability to crush ones enemies. But, she fails to understand that there are other types of it as cliche as it sounds. The strength of empathy, compassion... and may other things. The strength in being honest and being just who you are. There's many other strengths in the world, and I think as a person she fails to see this. To her, the only way she can protect is to kill to destroy the threat to one's safety. It is this narrow definition that horribly and often leads to her hurting people more than truly helping them.

((that feel when I crawl out of my RP/CW hole to actually comment of something that is housed elsewhere on the forum for a change. Don't get used to this people. You'll be sorely disappointed. anyway, I probably won't notice replies to me directyl as that's the case, but,

With Love,

Hukuna Sensei~))

[FairFamily]

I feel Titania is meant to be written to blur the line between good and evil. When you write a cool character that is tough and cool by killing, you don't really look at the consequences of the dead people in a negative way. You just see the positive effect of the killing:the villain is stopped. Ame specifically placed two sisters to show there is the flip side. In fact the entire sewer arc is about the flip side. The flip side of your team (with Titania murdering left and right and team meteor doing the healing), the filp side of Taka (the conflict of his morals and his duties), the flip side of Titania (behind that tough strong personality lies a broken and frustrated person who feels completely powerless). So I think Titania is written well for her part in the story.

An interesting opposite of this is batman with his no-killing rule . A lot of people blame him for not taking the actions to stop the joker. He lets the joker escape every single time just for him to kill another batch of people. So for a vigilante, someone who operates outside the law, the one who does what others should do, why doesn't he permantly stop the joker? How many graves have to be filled before it is enough? How many families must be ruined before he kills that psychotic clown bastard? You see some aspects from this in reborn as well. We stop the team, but we see with every step how far they are willing to go. Right now they are actively trying to blow up half a city. The only thing that saved it is a person equally twisted as Titania: Saphira. In fact we see the same people we let go doing it. When will it stop? So there is more to this no killing argument.

Some final random thoughts I didn't know where to put:

-Titania being so harsh to Taka could be sympathising with his situation (because of her own) and forcing him to make a choice. This way he will not be stuck in a similar situation as she is.

-Titania has a scene where she "kills" two grunts and gives them a new start. Some mercy there but she says it wasn't as satisfying: some insight in Titaia's character and proof it wasn't about glorious killing machines.

- http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8792&page=41#entry504003 a comment about http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8792&page=40#entry503821 might be insightfull

Edited October 6, 2016 by FairFamily

[Hect]

Titania can be as flawed as it gets, but as long as she doesn't kill Taka, I'm completetly fine with her killing off grunts. I don't like her all that much, but I'm fine with her character. It's not like you're meant to like everyone. :DBut I'm interested in seeing when she's getting her first real character development. Up until now, she's stayed pretty much the same. I think it's bound to change pretty soon.

[Cyanna Cyril]

I feel like Titania is a wonderfully made character. She breaks apart the stereotype that all hero's and good guy must be aligned as to pure light rather than neutral or dark alignment (in the RPG sense of alignment). I personally have found that grey characters are the most interesting because they operate according to their own terms and goals rather than following some other ideology of the masses. This leads to more questions about why the character reached their current development rather than accepting it as they're good so they're good.

While I find her interesting as a character, if she were a real person I don't believe that I would have the same belief. As stated in the starting post, she's manipulative, probably sociopathic, and apathetic to basically everyone. These aren't good personality traits, and yes killing people is not acceptable either. Yet, in her own world, all of these make her a stronger CHARACTER vs a stronger PERSON. Moreover, the people she kills are part of an organization that will stop at nothing to achieve their goals; she makes them nothing to stop their goals. I wouldn't approve of her actions in reality, but then again, why hold all heroes to a perfect standard? There's really not right or wrong besides what we decide together and for ourselves, and even if we have perfect standards we're aiming for, not everyone can be the perfect hero. You are who you are, and in Titania's case, she's interesting from observation but in interaction she'd be a mess to deal with (unless you're Amaria :3).

[Commander]

"Oh boo ho! You're crying over the fact I killed a few innocent people. Try all you want, but in the end, they're no different then the insects you've swatted and killed. Only living a life just to irritate you until you put an end to them. I doubt you even knew their names. Besides if you truly valued their lives, you would've tried stopping me and even died for them. So who's really the monster here: me or the person who does nothing to stop me simply because their life is more important to them?"

Oh Typhoon, he's a character I made who for once summarizes what I'm going to talk about here. Titania is a really well made character, so why do so many people hate her? I doubt it was Ame's/the writer's intention of making her that disliked to the point she's like the least liked character overall, especially after some of the best execution in plot for Episode 15. So why then do so many people hate this part of the game and call Reborn very edgy. It's the quote above that's the main problem with all of this.

I know the main protagonist is the biggest point of the flaw, however, too little characters stand up to the injustice. I can name a few such as Cal's struggle which really showed how a different side to him. What about Aster to Sirius when he witnessed his partner being killed. He didn't really reflect anything towards Sirius. Taka watched as his father murdered someone yet that didn't show any affect on him. Heather did for her father but she was very absent which is actually in character. Saphira murdering a whole bunch of people didn't even have anyone really react (it pretty much focused on somebody being taken). You'd think Meteor Grunts would be able to give us a bit more insight on these instead of being simple roadblocks.

Anyways now let's get back to why Titania's actions are so good. She spent her entire life suffering and living a lie because she cared that deeply about someone who was suicidal and hurting. Now imagine living with the thought that person could be dead now because of what you've done. All Titania cared about now was saving Amaria and would be willing to do anything and would not stop. I doubt she cared what she had to do so long as Amaria was safe and likely why she eventually left for the desert. To keep Amaria safe. Only the player knows the full story...which is a problem because the player can't talk nor do they challenge Tania's immorale behavior or call it out. Titania isn't a brutal killer and something like that would've reflected it better.

That's the thing about those generic NPCs: there's a high chance that nothing will come of Titania because of it. Only a handful of people witnessed it and other than the player, the witnesses are part of a genocide extremist group. And Taka saying the she shouldn't be killing weak people is a very weak challenge since well look at the above quote again. He let his father murder someone without question. Someone on Titania's side would have had to say something which would've helped in making her a little bit more likeable because believe me, she ain't in the wrong killing those guys when you think of the bigger picture. Those who are not willing to do what Titania does have a good chance of getting killed when facing the likes of Meteor.

[Lord Chespin]

Wow, this thread got a lot of attention! I'm impressed.

I guess you guys are right; it's not all that black and white. If we didn't stop the Meteor Grunts permanently, they would probably have killed others. However, I feel like the main problem here is with not the grunts, who are just punch-clock villains, but the Meteor bosses like Solaris, Sirius, and Lin, who are the ones giving the orders. As the Simon and Tara example proved, the grunts are mostly nice enough guys, they're just wrapped up in a great big lie. Kind of reminds me of World War II Germany in a way: they're working to get change, regardless of who gets stepped upon in the process. The Bosses, on the other hand, are the ones who Titania should be venting her anger on: sure, they have nice goals, but to quote Aster, "The world needs to change. Just not in the way Team Meteor's doing it." The ends don't really justify the means.

As for the quote Commander gave, I feel that the fact we don't try to stop Titania is a bit of a flaw in the game's medium. As a silent protagonist, there's no way we, the player, can call her out for her actions. Taka, on the other hand, just watched his dad murder a woman out of spite, and the Garchomp he used to kill people with is still up and kicking; I don't think then would have been a good time to tell him that he was in the wrong. Who knows, maybe Taka will bring the ruthless Kiki murder up again to Solaris.

I guess what I was trying to say in the original post came out wrong. I might have been trying to say that Titania is a bad character. From reading your comments, I can tell that Titania isn't a bad character; she's just a bad person. There's a big difference. Her Aegislash attacks just left a bad taste in my mouth, and I guess I thought that the game was supporting her actions, as she murdered countless guards who weren't even trying to hurt her and didn't suffer any drawbacks; she didn't even feel remorse. I get the feeling once Amaria finds out, she'll be horrified, and that'll probably be a drawback. For now, though, I guess she isn't supposed to be a likeable character.

So, today I learned that Titania isn't a bad character. Also, if I ever make characters, I've learned that there has to be a line drawn between "no killing" and "killing every villain you face"; make sure the villain you're facing is the one who deserves killing.

[Raindrop Valkyrie]

I think that's sorta the issue in a nutshell. She doesn't really have that character that we can see that can start the "Wake up!" moment. No one is really available to give her that reality check to sorta lay out directly for her what's up. The only person who could from my understanding as Commander stated would be the player, however this is... obviously a problem.

The thing perhaps this moment is still coming and we just have no idea how or when it will play out.

However, I find that this is what makes a character interesting. Decisiveness. There are clearly people that feel all sorts of different ways about how this character is portrayed. You're not told how you should feel about her at least in any explicit manner, so more or less you as a person form that for yourself. Thing is I hesitate to say it's truly unique. Subverting a trope is usually so common it's a trope in and of itself. Regardless of that, it's written in a way that is very intriguing and compelling without falling into the old, "well gotta be likable!" trap. A character doesn't have to a good person or even remotely likable to be compelling. It is the fact that she isn't that is infinitely interesting in all honesty.

Anyway, I'mma have to bow out at this juncture. I'm being a little too... overarching now, because I haven't directly experienced Reborn myself. I haven't first hand experienced things. I've not done them myself, which, as I said earlier, is where quite a bit of understanding can come from in a situation and in infomring you how to feel.

Actually...

I think this is the root of the problem. Maybe, just maybe that's what it is.

That you as the player can see these things etc, BUT you have no control in the fact that you can't confront her yourself. As a silent protagonist... you don't have a way to voice your opinion, or to be heard. Maybe it's this lack of control, this lack of ability to act, that brings forth these feelings of frustration in some. Because if you could only take that role on yourself, maybe you could break through. But, you have no option to do so, and you yourself can't directly confront the issue you see. This is something I find much more interesting in the space of game as media then other any other media. And I shall close on it.

Sometimes, it's the things in games that you can't do, that have a million times more impact then what you can do. The Lack of control, taking it away, when done correctly... is a tool that games have that no other media does. Because in games, you control things. So... taking away that control in a manner that leaves an impact, is one of the most effective tools to imprint on a player. ((for better or worse.))

[Personthing]

Wow, this thread got a lot of attention! I'm impressed.

I guess you guys are right; it's not all that black and white. If we didn't stop the Meteor Grunts permanently, they would probably have killed others. However, I feel like the main problem here is with not the grunts, who are just punch-clock villains, but the Meteor bosses like Solaris, Sirius, and Lin, who are the ones giving the orders. As the Simon and Tara example proved, the grunts are mostly nice enough guys, they're just wrapped up in a great big lie.

But the grunts have stuck around knowing that they'd be killing people for their own paradise, so they are far from innocent (you could even argue they deserve it). About Titania, many people worded it better, but she's meant to be a very flawed character and you're not supposed to agree with everything she does.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Personthing

[DerogatoryTrainer]

If I'm honest, Titania killing those New World Cultists with nary a fuck given was what made me like her.

I mean they ARE trying to kill everyone not affiliated with themselves or Team Meteor, so it's a good thing another NPC besides Saphira is committed to ending them permanently, instead of just battling them and watch them scurry away to re-group.

Sure, some of them are good people who don't really want to harm anyone but those people should really have already left by now.

I mean they tried to : starve an entire city, send another city into a coma, pollute the region so badly just to get people to leave, bombed several locations, are holding one city hostage inside a force-field while bombing the one next door, kidnapped children etc, etc.

If they are still part of the group after all that, then they definitely deserve to go down with the ship.

[Chase]

I actually dislike Titania because of her involvement with Amaria as opposed to her actions in the water treatment center.

I also think their your prosecution of her being a sociopath is fair, but I want to address that being a sociopath isn't a character-killer like it is something you typically avoid in the real world.

I think her grey moral compass, impulsiveness, and aggression makes for an antiheroine that is significant and well written.

She just...hits too close to home in regards to relation with other characters and it rustles my jimmies.

[Amanojaku]

My opinion on Titania and her arc is that, while the concept is nice, the execution is very weak. She's brought up as a subversion of fairy tale tropes, but she doesn't do that effectively.

* Damsel in Distress: Titania does not subvert this. She's not a badass woman who pulls herself up by her bootstraps, especially not in EP15. Remember, before the player character went down the waterfall, Titania did nothing other than murdering grunts that got close to her. She wasn't even able to get out of the first room by herself. Then, later on, she pretty much goes all Leeroy Jenkins on the Meteor grunts and gets herself baited multiple times by Taka. She was entirely helpless during the whole thing.

* Knight in Shining Armor: Titania does subvert this trope, but the way she does it is really shallow. The whole "Meteor will stop at nothing to achieve their goals, so why should I?" falls flat quickly because Titania doesn't have a goal. She just flails around aimlessly, blaming Meteor for her problems, blaming Amaria for her problems, and doing nothing to help anyone, not even herself. Yes, she was trying to save Amaria, but then what? If Amaria kept her memories, the whole thing would just happen again. And we saw what happens if Amaria loses her memories: Titania, instead of helping her friend, just runs away.

* Incorruptible Pure Goodness: Titania suffers from "Subversive fairy tale rewriting" syndrome. The darkness that she's supposed to represent is never fully explored, so she just comes across as rude and violent for the sake of being rude and violent. Like I mentioned before, her whole speech about paying evil unto evil doesn't hold water because this visionary point of view doesn't go well with her single most defining and consistent piece of characterization: Her short-sightedness. In fact, the main problem with this trope is Saphira: She has the same "pay evil unto evil" ideology, but in her case it's justified: She's spent her whole life protecting her sisters from Sigmund, after all. Titania, by comparison, murders people just because she wants to.

If I were to describe Titania, I'd say that she's quite pathetic as a person. Her short-sightedness always gets the best of her and she has a need to blame other people for her mistakes, as shown with the Meteor grunts, the player character, Florinia and Amaria. She'd be an excellent character if these traits were explored. In fact, I hope that this is where her character development goes! However, her flaws are completely overshadowed by "cool badass sword lady", so much that I had to take some serious liberties with what we've been shown of her to write about them.

[Damage]

I think Titania is a dope character, crazy as all hell but she's a strong enough character. But I don't think killing grunts is what makes people dislike here. I think it's why. Sirius killed a major grunt, he hasn't gotten this flak. My waifu Saphira killed a ton of grunts and no one's batted an eye at that. And the main character rode a giant steelix into their base (meaning we're all directly involved with killing almost all of the remaining grunts) But I think where we were all protecting something be it our friends or ideals we weren't as one track as Titania. She's a fun strong character but take away Amaria and she'd be pretty dull actually. Is she a great character... probably not but is she a good one. I think so.

Note... maybe Saphira dies since she has literally no one behind her. Not even her brother.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

I can see both sides of the issue of what Titania has done, so that's not my main problem with her since I can be swayed back and forth on that. My main problem with her is that she thought it was so simple for Taka to just say "I quit" and pack his bags, when she couldn't do that with Amaria. She explains her dilemma to the player, but refuses to budge when Taka explains his dilemma.

I really liked Titania's book about fairy tales in the school. It was actually reading the diaries and books of the school that made me realize how much depth Reborn has compared to the standard fangame or rom hack. But I feel like Titania kind of tries to force herself to be this strong, stoic, badass person who always handles her problems. She's the opposite extreme of the damsel in distress: instead of always having to be saved, she refuses help even when she needs it and holds the feelings she thinks are "weakness" like sadness inside. I think it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, for someone to literally never need help ever, and Titania doesn't recognize a middle ground of "even strong people break down sometimes".

What usually happens to people who act strong on the outside while they're falling apart on the inside is that they finally pop, and when they do, it's a disaster because years-decades of held in emotion come flowing out. They don't know how to handle it because they've always avoided having to handle it, and they don't seek help because they feel too ashamed of needing help.

I would really love if this became part of Titania's character development, where she realizes she doesn't need to act tough all the time and that it's okay to cry and need help. I think it's a strong possibility given she (most likely) has the Fairy Tale field which means the subject will probably come up again. Right now Titania is near the bottom of Gym Leaders for me (#16 if I were to make a favorites list), above Hardy and Samson since they both feel eh to me and I think it's more likely for me to like Titania more in the future than it will be for Hardy and Samson to go above feeling eh.

@Damage: I think the reason Sirius doesn't get talked about for what he did that much is because people expect Sirius to be ruthless, but less people might expect it from an ally. Also did you mean someone else by Saphira? Saphira doesn't have a brother.

[Chase]

Probably worth leaving here:

Sociopath (Noun):

Someone who behaves in a dangerous or violent way towards other people, and doesn't feel guilty about such behavior. (Webster)

A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience. (Google)

Webster clarifies on it's definition of the person by affirming Google's definition involving "personality disorder". It would seem however, that many people tend to use the term "sociopath" in the manner Webster uses it without additional context.

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The question that should be asked about Tania is this. Is her actions the result of a personality disorder intentionally written in by the developer - or is Titania genuinely just someone who has no regard for human life and lacks a soul?

I'm leaning toward her holding some sort of disorder, but I'm not a doctor. Given that she comes from a group of schoolgirls that collectively have names that end the same way and seemingly all have a personality "flaw", it seems like a part of a pattern with Onyx Trainer School graduates.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Probably worth leaving here:

Sociopath (Noun):

Someone who behaves in a dangerous or violent way towards other people, and doesn't feel guilty about such behavior. (Webster)

A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience. (Google)

Webster clarifies on it's definition of the person by affirming Google's definition involving "personality disorder". It would seem however, that many people tend to use the term "sociopath" in the manner Webster uses it without additional context.

---

The question that should be asked about Tania is this. Is her actions the result of a personality disorder intentionally written in by the developer - or is Titania genuinely just someone who has no regard for human life and lacks a soul?

I'm leaning toward her holding some sort of disorder, but I'm not a doctor. Given that she comes from a group of schoolgirls that collectively have names that end the same way and seemingly all have a personality "flaw", it seems like a part of a pattern with Onyx Trainer School graduates.

In one battle where you tag team against two of the cultists, instead of slashing them she tells them to leave Team Meteor and start a new life making their own decisions. That makes me wonder if she was reconsidering her actions. But given the conversation with Taka where she said "Well...tough", it's difficult to tell.

[Commander]

I'm trying to figure out what to add, but I don't really have much. I know from doing all this modding I've had to look at Reborn scenes many, many times and I can certainly tell you that you probably missed quite a bit about certain characters. For those of you saying Titania might have a disorder, I did find this little bit of dialogue to support that. The context is that Hardy wanted to get out of that house ASAP

[phoenica]

Is it strange that I actualy liked that Tania was killing meteor grunts? I mean they are basically an terrorist group that is responsible of death of lots of people since start of the game. Tania wasn't really in position to somehow arest those guys so what is alternative? As player we fight Eclipse/Aster/Zel and other grunts multiple times throughout a game, if we could just capture/kill them first time we beat them, think how many shitty situations we could avoid. I feel that just letting them go so they can hurt even more people is much worse than outright killing them.

[Masquerain]

Boy, after reading all those traits, I must be a sociopath. Or used to be at some point in my life. I think some of your points are stretching it a bit too much in order to make her fit the profile. Not to say Titania isn't a sadistic murderer or anything, but yeah.

I personally like Titania with all of her flaws. She's believable and that's nice. Her role in the story seems to be that she starts off as deranged and slowly changes as the game goes on and as Titania gains new revelations or experiences.

As evidenced by the Bluemoon Icecream scenario, I believe that Titania is meant to slowly have her steel armor melted, with or without your help as the MC.

I agree that her views are distorted and flawed and that her justification is not morally right, but I also can't hate her for it because every character has their own way of dealing and when they don't/ haven't known any better, they could easily go down a dark path. The really important thing imo is whether they've gone so far that there's no return- and I believe there is a return for Titania

As we all know, every Reborn character is flawed and we all have our likes and dislikes. So many people are fond of Terra while that's my number 1 hated character, etc etc. But if you'll hate a character for killing people without remorse, you'll be hating the entire (or almost entire) villain team, El , Saphira and so on. Yes, Saphira murders villains in cold blood just as easily as Titania. She does it because life has, in her mind, forced her to be ruthless to anyone who threatens to hurt her family. Is it morally right? No. Is it justified? No. But for these characters, it's the only way left to deal with threats.

I believe that we should all remember that the adults of Reborn have suffered longer than the kids in a dystopian world. I don't find it to be so horrible or ridiculous that some of them are prone to sociopathic tendencies. Their experiences and their world has made them take that path and I'm sure every single character who has committed murder has their reasons for doing so, even if we haven't seen them yet. As such, it should beg the question whether we really need to be so concerned about morality in a world that is practically almost at war and where an entire group of murderers is out to get you.

All in all, I find this to be the beauty of pokemon Reborn. You have so many characters, so many flawed characters with so many stories and varying experiences. I find such a setting to be ideal as it makes actions more morally ambiguous and makes you try to look beyond the surface of a character, to think deeper and to try seeing their POV, the things that drive them, the reasons that led them to the choices they made and so on. Overall Reborn is something far more than a mere question of what's wrong or right. As has been stated in the game, sometimes black is white, and white is black, sometimes things aren't as they appear to be on the surface.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Masquerain

[Might Gai]

guys, meteor grunts deserve to die, end of story, if i was in the game, titania would be a fly compared to me, they are the reason of every bad thing in reborn, am on titania and saphira's side

[Damage]

@Ice Cream Sand Witch

yeah I meant Titania.

[Imperial]

Let's have a look at Team Meteors' actions

-Caused the earthquake and power shutdown a decade ago, destroying the city and killing A LOT of people

-Burned down Fiore Mansion, killing the Belrose parents

-Bombed Peridot train station, killing several people

-Poisonned Azurine Lake, killing all the non-poison pokemons inside and ruining the health of many people, so probably causing several deaths too

-Destroyed Jasper and Beryl wards, killing almost every body there

-Tried to destroy Apophyll with an eruption, what would have killed dozen people (NPC, but if you imagine Apophyll was a real big place it would have been hundreds)

-Killed Kiki

-Put an entire city into sleep, which would normally cause them to die of thirst and starvation

-Put an entire city to starvation

-Took an entire city as hostages

-Bombed a city (no one died only thanks to Sapphira)

This was the known and intentional stuff, but you could probably add:

-Probably killed the Azurine island scientific team to make their base there

-Probably killed the people in charge of the WTC

-Accidentally created the mess in Chrysolia and Spinel town, causing at least two deaths (train driver and the man teleported in the sky that crashed before us), and probably more

-The trash invasion in Byxbysion may have caused several deaths too

-Surely killed several people that accidentally discovered their existence/bases/identities to keep the secret

And I surely forgot some.

So yes the grunts didn't try to kill Titania herself (though they still tried to let her starve to death at the bottom of the waterfall), yes some are cool guys that just made bad choices sometimes for good reasons, yes maybe despite all the crimes of Team Meteor they don't deserve to die (this alone could start a new debate though), but they HAVE TO die. Each Meteor, admin or simple grunt you leave alive is the death of another bunch of people and a step closer to the destruction of the universe (their ultimate goal). It's hard to notice unless you've done several playthrough, but you always meet the same grunts, several of the admins you face at the top of Ametrine were already trying to stop you in the factory at the very beginning. Meaning had you started to kill them from the start, Team Meteor would not have enough grunts left for their attacks.

That means less grunts in Pyrous mountain to slow you down so you could have discovered Cal had sabotaged the pulse before Kiki joined the battle and got killed. That means not enough grunts to take Labradorra as an hostage and bomb Calcenon. That means less grunts to slow you down atop of Ametrine and let Blake escape. That means much less innocent people killed overall.

Killing grunts in the WTC wasn't about justice or morals, it was about necessity and survival. Better be a living asshole than a dead idiot

And Titania has cold as people think. She lies to Amaria about her feelings not because she's heartless and manipulative as said in the OP, but because she loves Amaria so much she's ready to sacrifice herself to protect her. She slaughtered the grunts not because she's a soulless killer but because she knows how dangerous they are and that they would kill if left alive. Despite that she still took the risk of letting some alive when she learned they took care of Amaria. A real sociopath wouldn't do that

I don't like how she treats most people, she's surely not someone warm and friendly. But this is just a protection. As Florinia chose to become the Flobot to protect herself, Titania chose to become an apparently heartless bitch. Because if you can see behind the bloodstained armor, if you look through the cracks that appeared in E15, I'm sure you'll see she's all but heartless

Before I really didn't likes her, her way to treat everybody. But looking at how everybody bashed her without understanding her and trying to understand myself, I like her much more now