Do you guys think this game needs more gender-confusing characters?

[aGoodCabinet]

Well, for me....yes

[Tartar]

The game doesn't really need more characters, it has some great characters, a lot of them with unfinished character arcs. What Reborn needs is to start tying up those loose ends.

[Guest]

I have to agree. I mean, it would probably be a pain to shoehorn in more characters when the story is nearly complete. I'm quite happy with the cast we got anyway!

[Personthing]

The game is nearing its final stages, trying to add more story important characters at this point would drag on the narrative. (Sidequest stuff on the other hand is fine) Reborn already has a really big cast.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Personthing

[Commander]

I mean one of the points of criticism I'm certainly going to give Reborn deductions on is the too many characters syndrome. So yes, I clearly think even more characters need to be added. Sarcasm aside, I feel that we should break it down what you're asking for or suggesting removing each obstacle one by one:

The game doesn't really need more characters, it has some great characters, a lot of them with unfinished character arcs. What Reborn needs is to start tying up those loose ends.

The game needed to start tying many things up 2 episodes ago. I love all the arcs and the large cast don't get me wrong, but it feels like we start an arc with half the game as a buffer before it starts tying all up. Definitely hope a lot of arcs start getting answers very quickly but I did like the pacing of the OTS crew and their interactions are some of the best (still think Fern vs Florinia if you defeated Solaris is such a good reflection on what's really going on with Florinia).

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Alright so now that we established that there's way too large of a cast (not Reborn's fault exactly), let's say there was an opportunity to add such a character. What unique aspect would they bring to the plot? Honestly, with the context that we have it'd pretty much bring little or next to nothing. Not a new character, but the fact that they are gender confused or their arc is reflected around it.

I will say this three times. Gender does not define a character. Gender does not define a character. Gender does not define a character. Got it?

What I'm basically saying is that just because they're a certain gender, doesn't mean they have to act a certain way. Cain and Titania are the best examples of breaking their stereotypes. In fact, I bet these two have more conflict with society than a "gender-confused" character just due to the way they are. In fact we explore many different kinds of conflicts but Reborn's center of attention is always back on the league and meteor.

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Okay, now we established many things a gender confused could bring to the table could be instead use to better flesh out both the world and other characters instead of putting time and effort into a new such one. Adrienn probably needs more screen time anyways. But what if we did go the route and have a nb/gender-confused character? How would they fit in to the plot?

Reborn seems very welcoming to all types of people most likely due to the horrible conditions they don't discriminate as much. We actually see a lot of people suffer and/or die simply due to disasters caused by team Meteor. Adrienn fits into this due not to Xe's gender, but by the fact Xe hasn't given up on Reborn and wants to rebuild it back to the way it was. In fact how many characters really even reflect on their gender in Reborn even if they fall into a certain category? Cain? Cain is just playful, but had a hard life at home and left due to his choices in love.

I guess my point is that without context, I have no idea what you even mean. Reborn certainly doesn't need gender-confused characters as the world is not set up to focus on being gender based. I could keep peeling layers and still find no need for it because without context, an idea is practically worthless.

[ZEL]

I think the question has been taken slightly the wrong way. Having more non-binary and/or trans characters doesn't necessarily mean that they'd want to add characters to the game; it could also be taken as "I feel like it would have been nice if the characters from the existing cast had been more diverse".

And in that sense, I think OP's wish is completely valid and understandable. While I personally don't mind gender presentation among the cast the way it is now, I can see how someone would feel that it'd be nice to have more representation.

However, I do think that with respect to how long the game's been in the works, and that Ame originally started out not wanting to change things about the characters from her league, it's also not something I'd see as a flaw.

I feel that if Reborn was a new game that Ame had only just started working on, we would probably be seeing quite a bit more diversity among the cast. She certainly isn't the type of person who would shy away from doing such a thing.

But Reborn isn't that new, and many of the characters have existed this way for years. I remember the topic of changing things around came up in the E16 discussion thread in relation to the storyline, and Ame said that by the time she decided that she doesn't want to restrict herself by sticking to "league canon" any more, a big part of the game's story had already been planned out and set in motion. So changing the characters this far into development probably wouldn't have worked well.

Creating diversity is, to a good extent, a learned skill for writers. And sometimes, especially when you're working on an ongoing project of which parts have already been published, it's not possible to just go back and change things around. And it's too late at this point to introduce a completely new character arc about it.

So you just acknowledge it and move on, and do it differently next time.

That all said, there's nothing wrong from having your own headcanons about the characters' gender identities. Like Commander said, a good character is not defined by any single trait. You could switch the gender for most if not all of the characters and the story could still happen just the way it did.

Sure, it's not the "real deal", but if you think about it... most characters in the game have never given clear stances on their identities. Imagine what you wish. I've been headcanoning Fern as a trans boy for ages now.

[5hift]

Having more characters is just going to straight up confuse people more than their genders.

I already have trouble remembering all the main characters and what part they play in the story off the top of my head.

[Deleted User]

It needs to be written with the creator (amethyst)'s vision in tact. No influence from outside sources story wise.

[FairFamily]

Do we need more characters , which would be gender confusing? I think the cast is already large enough.

Do we need more gender confusing characters by changing the gender/looks of existing characters? Please don't , the only thing it will do is confuse me. It has no added value and wastes dialogue space.

[ZEL]

Please don't , the only thing it will do is confuse me. It has no added value and wastes dialogue space.

It'd only waste dialogue space if every character actually addressed it. I have to say I'm not all that fond of how much time Adrienn's introduction thing takes, even if I know why it was done like this. I imagine with most characters you would simply make the NPCs use the right pronouns for them from the get-go, or at the most, someone might correct another character real quick.

The cis female and male characters don't each introduce themselves by explaining to you what gender they are, and NB and trans characters wouldn't have to do that either. Doing so with each one would only cement the notion that NB and trans people aren't normal and need to explain themselves. We exist, and whether or not that confuses people shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not we get to be represented.

(I'm talking hypothetically here. Like I said above, I don't think Reborn needs to change anything about its cast. But if it would, this would be my opinion.)

Edited October 12, 2016 by Ama

[FairFamily]

It'd only waste dialogue space if every character actually addressed it. I have to say I'm not all that fond of how much time Adrienn's introduction thing takes, even if I know why it was done like this. I imagine with most characters you would simply make the NPCs use the right pronouns for them from the get-go, or at the most, someone might correct another character real quick.

The cis female and male characters don't each introduce themselves by explaining to you what gender they are, and NB and trans characters wouldn't have to do that either. Doing so with each one would only cement the notion that NB and trans people aren't normal and need to explain themselves. We exist, and whether or not that confuses people shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not we get to be represented.

(I'm talking hypothetically here. Like I said above, I don't think Reborn needs to change anything about its cast. But if it would, this would be my opinion.)

I don't think it would make much sense. The character is mean to be gender confusing, so a lot of people would use a wrong/different pronoun, which would result in a lot of chaos in no time flat.

[Shamitako]

Of course not. Adding more would weaken the impact of those that are there

And even if the cast were expanded on this way, I really don't think gender should be the main focus point for any character. It can exist, but focusing on it defeats the point imo

[Chase]

We haven't even gotten to the part where Adrienn is re-encountered. With regards to the desire for gender-fluidity to be better represented, that much depends on the character's impact.

Off-screen, it may be someone with an unusual gender that completely rebuilds Reborn City and causes Reborn to turn the corner back to prosperity.

On-screen? Yeah, Adrienn needs more of an arc at the very least. It's a good thing seeing xem again is at least confirmed due to necessity for typical Pokemon game progression.

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More character representation in the sense of quantity, however, is where you lose me. Outside of Adrienn being the supporting story character that fills this representation by xemself, you have access to playable-non-binary characters in Ari and Decibel - player characters that are without dialogue so that conveniently placing YOU and YOUR character into the story is completely plausible.

Therefore, not only does the game give you a cast member when it doesn't necessarily have to, it gives you personal representation on that front.

From there, I don't know how much more is needed, to be quite honest.

[NickCrash]

Gender-neutral characters are not that common in any media. Adrienn is a nice exception that introduces us to the topic, and with Radomus's apparent universal fourth-wall breaking knowledge, xyr inclusion is well-made. If they introduce another gender-confused or gender-neutral character at this point, all they would do is remove focus from Adrienn's unique traits. Besides that, as mentioned before me, there is no reason to include said character into the plot, as they would create more problems than they would solve. What position would they have? What would their presence in the league be? Their connection to the other characters? Therefore, a major character would not do. Especially if their arc is focused on their gender identity. We've had that before, twice. We also have Shade but aparently nobody cares enough about their gender.

Reborn has other more serious issues to fix, and increasing the screentime of the already implemented cast is one of them. We need to get more information about their background, and their relations to each other (friendly or otherwise). Backtracking to check certain spots like the cemetary or notes from GG and even the diaries provide such information, and choosing certain paths in the story reveals a bit more, pretty much like in Tanzan Cove with Sigmund getting Hyper Beamed or in Mt Pyrrhon with the defeat of Solaris.

Now, if we were to implement an NPC connected to a side-quest, who is gender fluid, that's a completely different story. It could revolve around xyr gender identity, possible bullying, and a handsome reward for saving xem. It could also include our beloved Adrienn and provide a bit more screentime, but if we delve into further speculation of the implementation of a forum-based idea, which was nowhere mentioned to actually be inside Ame's head, we might just get ahead of ourselves and be disappointed when it does indeed never happen.

[nsbwinner2]

Well, for me....yes

Definitely not... Adrienn is good and Cain is arguable, but there are more than enough characters already. Of course it also depends on how the devs feel at a particular point in time...