[Spoilers] Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine Discussion

[Sheep]

In light of the new spoiler lock surrounding Sun and Moon I'm creating this thread to house all discussion about the leaked information through the datamine of the demo. Feel free to keep discussing information that comes from official sources in the Sun and Moon discussion thread, this one's just for the datamine leaks.

To get you up to speed in case you haven't seen them yet, here are the five videos that have been released by the dataminers:

As for my thoughts:

• New Alolan forms are pretty underwhelming. None of them get me excited.
• Chinese leak starters turn out to be real but I was expecting that from the instant I saw the second evos so no real surprises there.
• I for one love the toucan pokemon. It's a bit odd that it evolves from a woodpecker but we've seen seagulls turn into pelicans before and I was asking for a toucan pokemon in the lead up to gen 7 so I'm not complaining. Unfortunately I don't think it will be very good, but at least it looks cool.
• The water spider gets me psyched because I've been waiting for Bug/Water for ages now and it looks like I'm not just gonna get one, I'll get two. It could be Bug/Psychic or Bug/Ice but I'd hedge my bets on Bug/Water. Both it and Wimpod's evo look fantastic in my opinion and hopefully one is special while the other is physical. In particular the water spider looks to me like it might be a fast frail special attacker akin to Galvantula.
• I quite like Morelull's evo. Looks like a solid design for a Grass/Fairy.
• Salandit's evo looks cool, but Salandit already looked cool so they were gonna have to work hard to screw it up.
• Other new stuff isn't stuff that I don't really have an opinion on because they just don't interest me.

So discuss away.

[Commander]

-Kind of sad that they showcased the best of the Alolan mons and the remaining ones look...meh. Alolan Persian is kind of creepy and I really liked the original Persian's design and this new Alolan Meowth. Golem looks alright...but there's not much else to talk about. Disappointing that Kanto is the only region represented when Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos hold so many memorable and well loved mons that could've used it more.

-The new Pokemon all look really sweet. I don't think many of them will be strong competitively just from looks, but I must admit many of them are interesting to look at. Can't wait to see what spriters do with all this stuff. That wimpod evo surprised me as I didn't expect it to evolve. Also surprised they would reveal the Pseudo as well, unless this isn't the full roster which I doubt.

-The ultra beasts are also kind of interesting as we don't know what they are. The fact they have shinies does indicate we get to use them in battle, but it's very strange. Might serve as legendary equivalences but we can't say for sure...though it's confirmed that they take on shapes of some of the humans with one looking pretty much like Gizmo. The other 4 are a mystery right now...very strange.

-Legendaries are strange. The trio (quartet this gen) all look good and I hope they bring flavor for field effects as we all know how useful those can be. Predicting these guys make a big impact to competitive battle like the weather setters did if they don't get sent to uber. The duo is weird though. I don't think that eyeball and cloud thing are actual Pokemon, but who knows.

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Similar to how UB-01 looks like Lillie and UB-02 Beauty looks like Lusamine, there's an Ultra Beast that looks like Guzma.

I really like the Morelull and Pikipek evolutions.

Pokemon I think shoud've gotten an evolution but didn't: Komala, Pyukumuku, Comfey, Oricorio. Just based on size/stature, they seem like first-forms. But then again there are plenty of Pokemon like that, so.

Alolan Golem is pretty neat! I'm thinking it looks Rock/Electric. Alolan Persian's facial features are different from regular Persian, but maybe there's an explanation for that.

Coconut crab evolves into yeti crab. I think this was the "snowman" the Chinese leaks referred to. Apparently there's a word from translation that can mean either yeti or snowman.

I'm interested to see what type the anchor is. It seems like it could be Water/Ghost, Water/Steel, Steel/Ghost, or pure Steel. I'm also interested in the line with the one that was shown on the TCG box art.

Solgaleo and Lunala have pre-evolutions. Lunala's looks like a baby flying fuzzball thing, while Solgaleo's looks like an orb. Or at least it says they're pre-evolutions, but if it isn't confirmed I think they could be dormant forms.

Marshadow is cute. I also think it could be a dormant form going by the above. I wonder if it having a unique typing was true, since it looks Fire/Ghost or Fire/Dark, and we've had both of those both in previous gens and in Gen 7.

I like the island guardians that are presumably Psychic/Fairy and Ghost/Fairy. But the one presumed to be Fire/Fairy looks too similar to Tapu Koko imo, unless that was the point.

I wonder what Magearna's Poke Ball form is for . o .

Also, here's the Alola regional dex including Pokemon from previous gens.

[AuthorReborn]

-Kind of sad that they showcased the best of the Alolan mons and the remaining ones look...meh. Alolan Persian is kind of creepy and I really liked the original Persian's design and this new Alolan Meowth. Golem looks alright...but there's not much else to talk about. Disappointing that Kanto is the only region represented when Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos hold so many memorable and well loved mons that could've used it more.

-The new Pokemon all look really sweet. I don't think many of them will be strong competitively just from looks, but I must admit many of them are interesting to look at. Can't wait to see what spriters do with all this stuff. That wimpod evo surprised me as I didn't expect it to evolve. Also surprised they would reveal the Pseudo as well, unless this isn't the full roster which I doubt.

-The ultra beasts are also kind of interesting as we don't know what they are. The fact they have shinies does indicate we get to use them in battle, but it's very strange. Might serve as legendary equivalences but we can't say for sure...though it's confirmed that they take on shapes of some of the humans with one looking pretty much like Gizmo. The other 4 are a mystery right now...very strange.

-Legendaries are strange. The trio (quartet this gen) all look good and I hope they bring flavor for field effects as we all know how useful those can be. Predicting these guys make a big impact to competitive battle like the weather setters did if they don't get sent to uber. The duo is weird though. I don't think that eyeball and cloud thing are actual Pokemon, but who knows.

iirc, in the videos, the dataminer says that they don't have all the Pokemon, which leads me to believe an idea that I had cooking around my head for a little bit. Basically, after the ORAS Demo, Nintendo and GameFreak knew that the demo was going to be datamined to hell and back, so the scrubbed out most of the data. But then they just so happen to leave the majority of the sprites? That's awfully suspicious to me, since they could have just as easily removed all the unnecessary sprites from the data. I believe they intentionally left the sprites that were datamined in the game in order to build hype and promote discussion in the exact way we currently are buzzing all over it. It's a perfectly reasonable suggestion, as it would easily raise far more questions than it answered, since we have no idea about most of the Pokemon's typings, stats, abilities, or learnsets. It would be an easy way to allow Sun and Moon to gain extra free publicity while making people in the community believe they accomplished something.

[Commander]

I'm pretty sure that they really didn't care since most of those mons were revealed anyways though it is odd that they removed the non shinies and replaced them with Pikachu and only that. That's the odd thing that they did something to block data, but did a very poor job. My theory is that they only kept in more or less species that they are going to unveil over time plus the starters. Would make sense to have the prepped and ready for teasers.

[pyrromanis]

1st: Why do you discuss in spoilers in a spoiler thread?
2nd: You all forget the best thing found in the datamine! http://prnt.sc/cvw3km

Give me Ash-chu NOW!

[Alchemia Chan]

Alola Dugtrio is friggin

I'd like a dozen please.~

[Sheep]

1st: Why do you discuss in spoilers in a spoiler thread?

I would say just in case someone misses the spoiler tag on the title by accident. It's unlikely, but the spoilers are also not a big inconvenience either so there's little point to not doing it.

[Lord Chespin]

- Kinda surprised Pyukumuku, Minior, and Komala didn't get evolutions, but hey, maybe the leak's incomplete.

- Wimpod's Evolution looks friggin' BADASS. I love it!
- Really glad the starter leaks were confirmed. BWARK IS BEST!

- Apparently, the dataminers found a new move called psychic terrain, that sets a terrain that negates priority moves. Can't wait to see it implemented in Reborn!

- I don't really like Alolan Persian (it looks like it ate too much lasagna), but Alolan Dugtrio is growing on me. It looks ridiculous, but kinda cute.

And now, something I found:

[Zumi]

An interesting observation I just made is that one of the UB's, namely the green one who looks like a rolled up leaf, seems to be based on a Japanese myth about a princess called Kaguya. More specifically, the floaty thingies next to it, the conical shape and the layers it seems to have remind me a lot of it.

For reference, this is what the UB looks like:

For a short (and really shitty but you should get the gist of it) summary, Kaguya was found by an old bamboo cutter in a bamboo shoot. She was raised by the bamboo cutter and his wife, but grew up to be so beautiful and was admired by so many people that she was crowned as royalty, but had no memories of where she came from, or why she was on earth. Eventually she remembered, and had to travel back to the moon.

The floaty thingies look like bamboo shoots, and seem to refer to her being found inside one. The layers on the UB seem to refer to traditional Japanese clothes, and the conical shape + the tip of the thing combined with the bamboo shoot seems to remind me of a rocket- or space ship, of which the bamboo shoots seem to look like rocket engines. And to top it off, because the tale of Kaguya is heavily associated with the moon, it wouldn't be wrong to predict that this is a version exclusive UB to Pokémon Moon.

If it is tho, then I probably nailed it w/ this theory, lmao

The only thing I think that would make it a bit out of place is that it would be based on a Japanese myth, but it's a region based on Hawaii... Then again, the UB's dont particularly seem to originate from Alola to begin with, so I guess it's excusable LOL

[WanderingCorvus]

All the starter final evos look great. I wasn't too happy when I first saw the Litten final evolution a couple months back from the Chinese leaks, but after seeing its 3D model its grown on me. The owl wins design wise hands down though. Also, apparently the UB's can be caught, but not by regular pokeballs? I hope that's the case.

Regardless, All I see when I look at Litten's final form is this:

Edited October 19, 2016 by WanderingCorvus

[Lucky98]

I find it interesting that Marshadow is shown after Magearna in the Pokedex. Usually, event exclusive pokemon are at the end. Of course, there's always the possibility that Marshadow is event exclusive. Speaking of, there seems to be a lack of event exclusive pokemon for them to distribute. We get Magearna Day 1, and then there's Marshadow if it is indeed event exclusive. Maybe there is one or two others that are not in the demo?

So, is it confirmed that all the pokemon between Lunala and Magearna are Ultra Beasts, or are we just assuming that is the case? I also have to wonder if the Ultra Beasts will have actual names apart from UB-01, UB-02 etc. as the official website does say these are code names of some sort

Edited October 19, 2016 by Lucky1998

[Azeria]

Remember in DPP, how there were a ton of new mons that weren't in the regular regional dex? Not saying that it will be like that but there is a chance...

[Zumi]

Remember in DPP, how there were a ton of new mons that weren't in the regular regional dex? Not saying that it will be like that but there is a chance...

SINNOH CONFIRMED

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

An interesting observation I just made is that one of the UB's, namely the green one who looks like a rolled up leaf, seems to be based on a Japanese myth about a princess called Kaguya. More specifically, the floaty thingies next to it, the conical shape and the layers it seems to have remind me a lot of it.

For reference, this is what the UB looks like:

For a short (and really shitty but you should get the gist of it) summary, Kaguya was found by an old bamboo cutter in a bamboo shoot. She was raised by the bamboo cutter and his wife, but grew up to be so beautiful and was admired by so many people that she was crowned as royalty, but had no memories of where she came from, or why she was on earth. Eventually she remembered, and had to travel back to the moon.

The floaty thingies look like bamboo shoots, and seem to refer to her being found inside one. The layers on the UB seem to refer to traditional Japanese clothes, and the conical shape + the tip of the thing combined with the bamboo shoot seems to remind me of a rocket- or space ship, of which the bamboo shoots seem to look like rocket engines. And to top it off, because the tale of Kaguya is heavily associated with the moon, it wouldn't be wrong to predict that this is a version exclusive UB to Pokémon Moon.

If it is tho, then I probably nailed it w/ this theory, lmao

The only thing I think that would make it a bit out of place is that it would be based on a Japanese myth, but it's a region based on Hawaii... Then again, the UB's dont particularly seem to originate from Alola to begin with, so I guess it's excusable LOL

This exact thing happened in Okami! I didn't know it was a famous legend, though . o . It makes me wonder if there's a character in SM based off Kaguya, since there are three other Ultra Beasts that resemble known characters so far.

[fern]

Just a couple of general thoughts and theories on the UBs and alolan forms:

-Really intrigued about the Ultrabeasts. Like, it has been established again and again how they look like some of the characters already, but they’re also?? Pokemon too?? That can be caught?? (I’m assuming, since the datamine revealed that they have shiny forms too.) I can’t wait to see how that plays into the story. (I’m gonna so straight up out on a limb and say they experimented with turning humans into pokemon or something along those lines… With Type: Null and it’s evolution being incredibly similar to arceus in all respects, in addition to it being a literal chimera, along with it's actual pokedex entry pokemon experimentation definitely isn't out of the question. I could be wrong, ((UB-01 does apparently shift forms at it's own will)) but, unless I'm missing something here, who's to say they stopped experimentation at Type: Null? Maybe? )

-Though I'm personally a little disappointed with how lackluster the rest of the alolan forms have been. It was kind of a weird concept for me at first, seeing how there were pokemon from previous generations in other regions that could exist without such a drastic change (But this does bring up the question, just how far removed is Alola from all the other regions then??) To me it kinda just seems like a way to cram in more new pokemon. Buuuut the designs were pretty okay at first (alolan exeggutor has all my approval) Not too sure how to describe how I feel about the rest of the new alolan forms honestly.

Though I think this can come close. It's loud.

[Lucky98]

They found a list of tms in Sun and Moon

My thoughts:

I don't know who at Game Freak thought it was a good idea to replace Dig with Leech Life. Despite it being a two turn move, Dig was not necessarily bad in game. Unless they gave Leech Life a significant boost, it will probably be one of the first tms we get.
I guess this is the final confirmation that HMs no longer exist. Surf, Waterfall, and Fly are now TMs instead.
The total number of TMs is still 100, with only 3 belonging to new moves.

Also RIP Power Up Punch Mega Kangaskhan in VGC since we're not allowed to use transferred pokemon

Edited October 19, 2016 by Lucky1998

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Dig being replaced with Leech Life is , even if it did get a buff. I feel like Dig should always be a TM since it's a useful field move. It's basically Escape Ropes in move form. Same with Rock Smash and Flash, although most of the dark caves nowadays are optional.

[NickCrash]

- I suppose Dig was removed to urge us to use A-Diglett.

- Sheep, there is a 4th data mine video /watch?v=mh7RNb_PK1c

- The rest of the UB look hideous

- The data mines do not speak of new mega stones, which is a big disappointment

- Wimpod evo looks nice. I'd like to play and use it now

- Ame should include those pokemon as soon as she gets the chance

[Azeria]

- I suppose Dig was removed to urge us to use A-Diglett.

- Sheep, there is a 4th data mine video /watch?v=mh7RNb_PK1c

- The rest of the UB look hideous

- The data mines do not speak of new mega stones, which is a big disappointment

- Wimpod evo looks nice. I'd like to play and use it now

- Ame should include those pokemon as soon as she gets the chance

- I never really cared about dig so it's w/e.

- 4th datamine video gives a lot of interesting info.

- That's uh, kinda the point I think. That crab though...

- A lot of item data aside from the demo was removed. Not saying that there are indeed new megas but there might be stuff they kept yet....

- Yes.

The games soundtrack is fucking baller by the way. GIVE IT TO ME.

[Sunbean]

I gave in and peeked, but looked at the vid at 2x speed so I didn't get too much. I don't like any of the new Alolan forms, but Persian is oddly endearing in its own way. And I'm so relieved at the starter evolutions, they all look great.

From what I could see about the ultra beasts, they look really freaky. I think the recent announcement about capturing them might dismantle the "UBs are people" theory as capturing them would be... questionable.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Sunbean

[NickCrash]

The UB are still technically pokemon, but their designs look lifeless. Magnezone is supposed to be a machine pokemon, but it has some kind of 'personality' in its design. Here I am not sure what happens.

@Azery, how do you mean "that's the point"?

[Azeria]

The UB are still technically pokemon, but their designs look lifeless. Magnezone is supposed to be a machine pokemon, but it has some kind of 'personality' in its design. Here I am not sure what happens.

@Azery, how do you mean "that's the point"?

See the thing is Magnezone, while a machine Pokemon, is still a Pokemon of the established Pokemon universe. It's meant to look similar even if it's a machine Pokemon. These ones being lifeless actually works out for them. They're eldritch abominations, creatures from another dimension. Them looking lifeless while odd, is probably intentional.

[Sheep]

- I suppose Dig was removed to urge us to use A-Diglett.

- Sheep, there is a 4th data mine video /watch?v=mh7RNb_PK1c

- The rest of the UB look hideous

- The data mines do not speak of new mega stones, which is a big disappointment

- Wimpod evo looks nice. I'd like to play and use it now

- Ame should include those pokemon as soon as she gets the chance

Thanks Nick, I'll update the OP with the new video and then edit this with my thoughts on it.

Edit:

I like that HM's are being removed, I think this is long past due as it's just an inconvenient system. I do hope that diving bell spider learns dive by level up though so my bug mono doesn't need to rely on a HM slave.

I'm desperately hoping that Leech Life as a TM move means that it's got a buff. Something like 40 base power would be great. A physical bug type Mega Drain.

With regards to fossils, I called it. Like ages ago in the sun and moon thread I said it's possible that there will be no fossil pokemon this time around because Hawaii is too young and a volcanic island chain. Everyone who was like "nah they add fossil pokemon every generation" don't mess with a geo major who has a honours degree based around the fossil record! Other than I told you so though, it is actually a bit disappointing because I do enjoy the fossil pokemon. Hopefully I'm jumping to conclusions and the full dex isn't in the demo.

[Lucky98]

The fifth and final video was just posted "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNdThqpWMw"

We saw from the demo that Super Potions now heal 60, but Hyper Potions are now the same as Reborn's Ultra Potions.They also raised the price of Hyper Potions, which I find a little strange.
They also changed Fresh Water to healing only 30 HP, Soda Pop to 50 HP, and Lemonade to 70 HP.
Based on this, I believe that there will either be a new potion above hyper potions that restores more than 120, or this was Game Freak's Attempt at making Max Potions relevant.