[Spoilers] Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine Discussion

[Jmanultrax1]

they made some buffs to stats in the general at least so its not a complete lost. All it is, that now the ate abilities aren't life orb damage strong.

[Hiss13]

*Finds out about Anabel being in Sun and Moon*
*Sees her new design*

*Listens to her theme*

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

*Finds out about Anabel being in Sun and Moon*

*Sees her new design*

*Listens to her theme*

I'm really happy she's coming back, since the main reason I wanted to see the Battle Frontier in ORAS was updated designs for the Frontier Brains.

[Hiss13]

I'm really happy she's coming back, since the main reason I wanted to see the Battle Frontier in ORAS was updated designs for the Frontier Brains.

Updated designs for the Frontier Brains was also something I was looking forward to back when ORAS was being announced. Still, better late than never. And Anabel's redesign is just wonderful~

[Azeria]

Updated designs for the Frontier Brains was also something I was looking forward to back when ORAS was being announced. Still, better late than never. And Anabel's redesign is just wonderful~

She's literally Kyoko Kirigiri. Someone at Game Freak deserves a medal for this....

[PedroHenrique]

(HUGE SPOILER WARNING)

Okay let's not be so dramatic, but seriously, it's a pretty big spoiler.

Basically that''s it, you get challenged by many people after you're the champion, however, even if you lose you won't lose the title of champion, just white out, there are more videos like this in the channel.

[Jmanultrax1]

I really like the concept that we can now defend our championship title, instead of constantly facing the elite four. Also with the other ultra beasts besides UB-01 I wonder how we'll find them, obviously their events for the post game, but how much is in the post game? I heard that there's a lot after the main game is beaten

[Twilightwing]

so who brought in Kirigiri in pokemon?

Edited November 14, 2016 by Twilightwing

[Alilatias]

Anyone already brainstorming changes to Reborn gym teams with the new Pokemon?

- Julia: One of her two Voltorbs -> Electric Oricorio (obviously)

- Florinia: No changes

- Corey: No changes
- Shelly: No changes but I feel a Vikavolt fits somewhere in her team.
- Shade: Trevanent -> Decuideye, and Mimikyu possibly fits somewhere in his team.
- Kiki: Second or third stage of Dragon/Fighting type
- Aya: Salazzle definitely belongs somewhere in her team (or Cain's), Normal Muk -> Alolan Muk
- Serra: Alolan Ninetales
- Radomus: No changes
- Luna: No changes
- Samson: Evolved form of Crabrawler?
- Terra: Alolan Dugtrio
- Ciel: No changes

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

Anyone already brainstorming changes to Reborn gym teams with the new Pokemon?

- Julia: One of her two Voltorbs -> Electric Oricorio (obviously)

- Florinia: No changes

- Corey: No changes

- Shelly: No changes but I feel a Vikavolt fits somewhere in her team.

- Shade: Trevanent -> Decuideye, and Mimikyu possibly fits somewhere in his team.

- Kiki: Second or third stage of Dragon/Fighting type

- Aya: Salazzle definitely belongs somewhere in her team (or Cain's), Normal Muk -> Alolan Muk

- Serra: Alolan Ninetales

- Radomus: No changes

- Luna: No changes

- Samson: Evolved form of Crabrawler?

- Terra: Alolan Dugtrio

- Ciel: No changes

I could see Corey using Salandit because its ability is Corrosion and Corey's name pun is corrode + he has the Corrosive Field.

[Jmanultrax1]

With some of those changes with gen 7 I can see the gym leaders in reborn be more difficult to beat than they were originally.

[Jmanultrax1]

the alternate worlds were speculated by zinna in oras. so its not unlikely. I'm actually surprised that Nintendo made this easter egg so obvious let alone mysterious. I really like this one.

[sound of silence]

Anyone already brainstorming changes to Reborn gym teams with the new Pokemon?

- Julia: One of her two Voltorbs -> Electric Oricorio (obviously)

- Florinia: No changes

- Corey: No changes

- Shelly: No changes but I feel a Vikavolt fits somewhere in her team.

- Shade: Trevanent -> Decuideye, and Mimikyu possibly fits somewhere in his team.

- Kiki: Second or third stage of Dragon/Fighting type

- Aya: Salazzle definitely belongs somewhere in her team (or Cain's), Normal Muk -> Alolan Muk

- Serra: Alolan Ninetales

- Radomus: No changes

- Luna: No changes

- Samson: Evolved form of Crabrawler?

- Terra: Alolan Dugtrio

- Ciel: No changes

Shelly needs to change a bit due to struggle bug getting the boot from the TM movepool, unless Ame simply wants to give out leech life early and keep the move. Do like due to the buffs to half her teams base stats she becomes a legitimate threat.

Corey should definitely have salandit to abuse the corrosive field more

Noel's swellow should become special with hurricane to put a stop to people setting his field on fire.

Please don't make samson any easier than he already is with crabominable. If anything he could use the dragon/fighting poke because clanging scales being a sound based move would hit stupidly hard on his field.

[Monochrome_Complex]

On the subject of team changes

Shelly totally needs Rimbobee. It fits her so well.

Aya should get Salazzle.

Noel should get Drampa

Thing about Flobot is that her team has a sort of desert theme to it too, which no alola grass type really fits. Actually Dhemise works well with that team due to its typing but it's too strong for so early on.

Shade should have mimikyu to replace one of his pokemon.

Samson should get Bewear since dancing bears are an old circus cliche

Serra should definitely get Alolan Ninetales

Radomus should have uranguru easily

Correy should try to fit mereanie on his team somewhere

Kiki getting Jangomo is good

Luna hmmm no change. Same with Ciel.

Cal should get Incineroar

Blake should alolanslash holding a focus sash with slush rush as to take advantage of the hail.

Terra should get palossand

[Dopple]

Since we're talking about team changes, what gen 7 pokemon would you add to your pokemon reborn team? Since I'm doing a mono dragon play-through I would love to add Turnator and fighting/dragon pokemon (forgot the name) to my team

Edited November 15, 2016 by Dopple

[CURIE]

So since nobody answered my question about Popplio's hidden ability, I did my own research.

The abilities like Pixilate and such have their descriptions updated to reflect the 1.3x boost, but Liquid Voice's description has no such mention. So it looks like that's a negative, unless hackers get the ability early, test it, and find out it actually does boost damage.

So... The whole ability is COMPLETLEY useless. All it does is turn Hyper Voice into a base 90 stab move, and while hitting through substitute is cool nobody's gonna use it over Scald. The ONLY way it would be useful is if she gets Boomburst, but she doesn't.

WHAT THE FUCK GAMEFREAK.

[Jmanultrax1]

apparently primarina also has sound based fairy type moves. They lose their fairy type because of the ability so there's that downside

[Azeria]

So since nobody answered my question about Popplio's hidden ability, I did my own research.

The abilities like Pixilate and such have their descriptions updated to reflect the 1.3x boost, but Liquid Voice's description has no such mention. So it looks like that's a negative, unless hackers get the ability early, test it, and find out it actually does boost damage.

So... The whole ability is COMPLETLEY useless. All it does is turn Hyper Voice into a base 90 stab move, and while hitting through substitute is cool nobody's gonna use it over Scald. The ONLY way it would be useful is if she gets Boomburst, but she doesn't.

WHAT THE FUCK GAMEFREAK.

It's got it's uses. And with the nerf to burn, there's a decent incentive to use it over scald.

[CURIE]

It's got it's uses. And with the nerf to burn, there's a decent incentive to use it over scald.

Not really. The only nerf to burns was the damage it deals, which isn't why everyone uses Scald. Everyone uses scald because burns halve the opponent's attack. And is the use that Hyper Voice still has? That it's a spread move which hits through substitute? Guess what other base 90 water move does that? Sparkling Aria. Yes, that's a sound and a spread move. Might as well use it with Torrent and you'll be able to shut down flame orb users.

There's the thing about water absorb and storm drain blocking Perish Song, which sounds like you could make a cool doubles strategy out of it until you realize nobody with either ability has any moves to take advantage of it, like Pursuit.

The only thing I can come up with is Echoed Voice, and that's not very usable either. Pixilate Echoed Voice is so good because it becomes powerful on only the second use. Liquid Hyper Voice won't be anything special until 3 or even 4 uses.

Don't get me wrong, Primarina's stats, movepool, and godlike typing still make it a pretty decent Pokemon. But Gamefreak's simply retarded design choices just make it a decent Pokemon when it COULD have been the best starter ever.

Unless of course we have a repeat of gen 6 and a week after the game's out everyone realizes "holy shit it actually DOES boost those moves"

[Azeria]

Not really. The only nerf to burns was the damage it deals, which isn't why everyone uses Scald. Everyone uses scald because burns halve the opponent's attack. And is the use that Hyper Voice still has? That it's a spread move which hits through substitute? Guess what other base 90 water move does that? Sparkling Aria. Yes, that's a sound and a spread move. Might as well use it with Torrent and you'll be able to shut down flame orb users.

There's the thing about water absorb and storm drain blocking Perish Song, which sounds like you could make a cool doubles strategy out of it until you realize nobody with either ability has any moves to take advantage of it, like Pursuit.

The only thing I can come up with is Echoed Voice, and that's not very usable either. Pixilate Echoed Voice is so good because it becomes powerful on only the second use. Liquid Hyper Voice won't be anything special until 3 or even 4 uses.

Don't get me wrong, Primarina's stats, movepool, and godlike typing still make it a pretty decent Pokemon. But Gamefreak's stupid design choices just make it a decent Pokemon when it COULD have been the best starter ever.

Unless of course we have a repeat of gen 6 and a week after the game's out everyone realizes "holy shit it actually DOES boost those moves"

The main reason water types used scald was the fact that the burn damage outdid lefties recovery meaning they could outstall most things. The halved attacking stat was just an added benefit.

It's not a stupid design decision when it's still a good Pokemon regardless of that.

Sound moves are rather prevalent and the mere fact that ALL sound moves turn into water type moves means that it deals with stuff like Sylveon(WHO'S SOLE REASON TO USE IS BECAUSE OF PIXILATE HYPER VOICE)and Mega Garde. Combine that with good bulk and 126 special attack and you've got a monster. It's got INSANE amounts of coverage. It's not a stupid design decision when it exists to make the ability unique and not completely bust the mon.

There were PLENTY of abilities that could've absolutely broke Primarina. I'm glad they made one that's well balanced and gives it an additional niche.

Calling Game Freak stupid for not making your favourite starter insanely good is a dumb thing to do.

[CURIE]

The main reason water types used scald was the fact that the burn damage outdid lefties recovery meaning they could outstall most things. The halved attacking stat was just an added benefit.

It's not a stupid design decision when it's still a good Pokemon regardless of that.

Sound moves are rather prevalent and the mere fact that ALL sound moves turn into water type moves means that it deals with stuff like Sylveon(WHO'S SOLE REASON TO USE IS BECAUSE OF PIXILATE HYPER VOICE)and Mega Garde. Combine that with good bulk and 126 special attack and you've got a monster. It's got INSANE amounts of coverage. It's not a stupid design decision when it exists to make the ability unique and not completely bust the mon.

There were PLENTY of abilities that could've absolutely broke Primarina. I'm glad they made one that's well balanced and gives it an additional niche.

Calling Game Freak stupid for not making your favourite starter insanely good is a dumb thing to do.

Not to be disrespectful or anything, but almost everything you just said is wrong.

First of all and most importantly, your idea about Primarina's shutting down Pixilate users has been tested and disproven. Liquid Voice only affects Primarina's own moves. Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokemon-sun-moon-battle-mechanics-research.3586701/

And I've used Milotic enough to to know what you said about Scald is the other way around. And looking at Primarina's stats, it's certainly the same case here.

The part about how plenty of abilities that could have broken Primarina is true, but you'd think they'd make up an ability that does SOMETHING.

And that brings me to your final point: I'm not calling Gamefreak stupid for "not making a pokeyman gud enough", I'm calling them stupid for inventing an ability specifically for a certain Pokemon... And having that ability contribute absolutely nothing to the Pokemon as a whole. If it had Boomburst then it'd at least contribute something, but they couldn't even be bothered to do that. This "custom made just for Primarina" ability is actually worse than the standard Torrent, and that's just sad.

I understand now what you meant by "still has its uses", and I apologize for originally coming off as standoffish, but as you can see in that link the niche you thought exists actually doesn't.

[Azeria]

Not to be disrespectful or anything, but almost everything you just said is wrong.

First of all and most importantly, your idea about Primarina's shutting down Pixilate users has been tested and disproven. Liquid Voice only affects Primarina's own moves. Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokemon-sun-moon-battle-mechanics-research.3586701/

And I've used Milotic enough to to know what you said about Scald is the other way around. And looking at Primarina's stats, it's certainly the same case here.

The part about how plenty of abilities that could have broken Primarina is true, but you'd think they'd make up an ability that does SOMETHING.

And that brings me to your final point: I'm not calling Gamefreak stupid for "not making a pokeyman gud enough", I'm calling them stupid for inventing an ability specifically for a certain Pokemon... And having that ability contribute absolutely nothing to the Pokemon as a whole. If it had Boomburst then it'd at least contribute something, but they couldn't even be bothered to do that. This "custom made just for Primarina" ability is actually worse than the standard Torrent, and that's just sad.

Huh. My bad, haven't checked into Primarina's thread on smogon in the last few days. Still, it's not a bad Pokemon by any means(Heck, none of the starters are this time around.)Primarina has the highest special attack of all Water types that aren't legendaries and the added stab in moonblast with tons of coverage will probably make it UU at the very least. Come move tutors and suddenly..

But I digress. I get why you don't like them not making Liquid Voice all that good, but calling them stupid over is kinda unnecessary. There's a reason they don't give Boomburst to anything with a high spatk y'know. 140 bp move with no drawback is scary....especially when it's used by a Pokemon with 126 SpA who's ability changes the move to water giving it STAB....

[Jmanultrax1]

primarina is still amazing in its own way. it already outclasses a few pokemon, plus with its amazing move pool and stats it can easily be a good member for a team

[Monochrome_Complex]

As far as I know there's no confirmation as to whether or not liquid voice buffs the sound moves. The description for dewpider's ability didn't mention the power boost either and it could be a similar case here. People are jumping to a lot of conclusions this gen about new pokemon and many early predictions have been proven wrong, for better and worse.

[Lord Chespin]

So, apparently Vanilluxe gets Snow Warning as an ability now. I already gave it a mega in my plans for Pokemon Alliance that was designed for hail teams, and this just makes it even more awesome.

Here's the mega, in case you were curious:

MEGA VANILLUXE

Type: Ice

Ability: Hailfire (When in hail, boosts Special Attack by 1.5x but also causes 1/8^th recoil in health at the end of the turn; basically hail-based solar power)

HP: 79

Attack: 75

Defense: 105

Special Attack: 140

Special Defense: 115

Speed: 129

Brain Freeze (Standard Set)

Vanilluxe @ Life Orb

Ability: Snow Warning

EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Modest Nature

- Flash Cannon

- Blizzard

- Freeze-Dry

- Hidden Power Ground

I'd post it on the thread for Mega Evolutions, but I don't want to ruin the spoiler lock.