[Spoilers] Pokemon Sun and Moon Demo Datamine Discussion

[Govictory]

i should really post more often then once every few months lel

anyway...

those leaked stats for Lycanroc day are fine as can be, with speed and attack that are really good for an early pokemon and access to a priority rock move (heart scale required to learn it because it has to be a level 0 and 1 attack) i am calling it now it could be an effective check to charizard y and zapdos with a stone edge, sword dance/bulk up (bulk up maybe good against slow building teams so you don't get blown away yourself i guess), accelerock (that priority rock move), and sucker punch/fire fang/thunder fang (type coverage, weakness check idk?) set

regardless with all of these slowmons i am most likely wrong but i feel their will be a push towards the wall meta even more with those stupid Ultra beasts (1 and 2 that is sun linked specificly) due to them being able to have possible set ups as durable walls/bulky sweepers(sweeper is applied more to 1 and a painful physical wall for sun UB2)

also decidueye's speed is abit of a let down, i mean litten is as fast as it and torracat is the fastest the starters get. still gonna pick poplio for that fairy water typing

so how does this sound for my main story team?

Primarina, lycanroc day, Salazzle, Golisopod, Raichu/Jolteon, and Palossand/Oricorio(Ghost or psychic)

i am so HYPED for the games to come out i can't wait!

Edited November 16, 2016 by Govictory

[CURIE]

Welp, Liquid Voice has been tested. It's exactly as everyone thought given the description, no boost. So you have no reason to use Liquid Hyper Voice ever, in singles you're gonna go with Scald and in Doubles Sparkling Aria. Unless there's a Boomburst tutor next game, you're literally better off using Torrent.

The worst part is it doesn't end with Primarina; this generation seems to be full of moves, abilities, and Pokemon that Gamefreak tried too hard to not make overpowered, and ended up making them useless.

[Chase]

Unfounded competitive speculation featuring the Litten evolutionary line here.

Mods, if this qualifies as something obscure as Tier Discussion or something more than it does datamine material please move my post - I just wanted to be safe and keep the spoilers away from competitive savvy users who don't want to know everything yet.

Torracat

Blaze/Intimidate

85 Attack, 80 Special Attack, 90 Speed, 50 Def/ SpeDef

Notable moves - Fake Out, U-turn, Fire Blast, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Crunch

Ideal Items - Eviolite

Tier? - PU

I can really see this thing being super annoying with it's decent defenses and Eviolite -and- intimidate. It almost has that Monferno feel in PU, except that it's probably a little bulkier after the -1, allowing for it to get off those free Fire Blasts more often. It's speed (which is better than it's final evolution's. :C) puts it in the middle of the PU tier and faster than many of the hazard users such as Kricketune, Golem, Torterra, the aforementioned Monferno, Gigalith, Carracosta, etc.) which could cause some frustration for slower set-ups. Fake Out allows it to get chip damage, and U-turn allows it to get out of a sticky situation.

Intimidate makes this thing pretty viable in the tier if you ask me.

Incineroar

Blaze/Intimidate

HP: 95
Atk: 115
Def: 90
SpAtk: 80
SpDef: 90
Spe: 60
Total BST: 530

Fire/Dark

Items to consider: Assault Vest, Choice Band, -maybe- Choice Scarf, Leftovers

Potential? Offensive -and- Defensive

Moves - Darkest Lariat, Throat Chop (a 60 BP move that prevents the opponent from using sound base moves for two turns), Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Flamethrower, Wisp, Toxic, Swords Dance, Substitute, Outrage, U-turn

Yeah, yeah, it's slow - but it's also distinctly BULKY and has intimidate, which will make it a strong defensive Pokemon with things like Will-o-wisp for added insult. It also can pivot with U-turn, which goes very nicely with Intimidate. The neat thing though is that this thing has a lot of coverage moves, which makes it a pretty decent AV user.

One of the things that's pretty telling is that Cross chop gives it a move that can hit things it's typing wouldn't allow you to hit well, and we got the feeling the Heel Fighter would get some access to Fighting type moves. It also gets Earthquake, which is just a fantastic move in general.

Choice items, particularly the Band moreso than the Scarf, are viable, given the fact that U-turn can really put a hurt on someone after a boost. It's defensive enough as well to consider Lefties.

You could potentially cause a switch with intimidate and get a Sub up for free if you don't with your opponent caught trying to attack it at -1, then go for Swords Dance to make Incineroar threatening. It also can be used to RestTalk potentially.

Final verdict?

It's a UU Pokemon - with some opportunities to make it in an OU squad as a niche weapon against things like Bisharp and Mega Scizor.

[Monochrome_Complex]

Welp, Liquid Voice has been tested. It's exactly as everyone thought given the description, no boost. So you have no reason to use Liquid Hyper Voice ever, in singles you're gonna go with Scald and in Doubles Sparkling Aria. Unless there's a Boomburst tutor next game, you're literally better off using Torrent.

The worst part is it doesn't end with Primarina; this generation seems to be full of moves, abilities, and Pokemon that Gamefreak tried too hard to not make overpowered, and ended up making them useless.

I feel some more time should be given first before jumping to conclusions about the new mons. Shame about liquid voice but eh whatever. Remember though that this is a first game of a generation and that with the lack of tutors some movesets/builds are going to feel like they're missing something. Next game we'll surely see more buffs

[Lord Chespin]

So, uh, in the spirit of the whole competitive thing, how 'bout we talk about Bewear?

Bewear

Fluffy/Klutz/Unnerve

HP: 120

Attack: 125

Defense: 80

Special Attack: 55

Special Defense: 60

Speed: 60

Ideal Items: Leftovers, Assault Vest, Life Orb(?)

Potential: Bulky Offensive

So, first off, this thing gets perfect coverage aside from ghost-types, and it gets Shadow Claw to remedy that. It also gets good STAB options in Return and Hammer Arm (and yes, I know it has stronger options in Double-Edge and Superpower, but that just cuts into its longevity), Earthquake to hit fire-types (which it has a pseudo-weakness to) on the switch, and some form of recovery in Pain Split. All it really needs from tutors in later games is Drain Punch, and it would be the ultimate Assault Vest tank; even without drain punch, though, it's still a great defensive tank, since Fluffy gives it a Defense stat of about 178. Of course, its Fairy weakness, vulnerability to statuses, and the aforementioned Fire pseudo-weakness mean that it probably won't be the most top-tier of threats, but I'm willing to bet this guy will be at least UU, maybe even OU.

This is my first analysis please be gentle

Edited November 17, 2016 by Lord Chespin

[Azeria]

So, uh, in the spirit of the whole competitive thing, how 'bout we talk about Bewear?

Bewear

Fluffy/Klutz/Unnerve

HP: 120

Attack: 125

Defense: 80

Special Attack: 55

Special Defense: 60

Speed: 60

Ideal Items: Leftovers, Assault Vest, Life Orb(?)

Potential: Bulky Offensive

So, first off, this thing gets perfect coverage aside from ghost-types, and it gets Shadow Claw to remedy that. It also gets good STAB options in Return and Hammer Arm (and yes, I know it has stronger options in Double-Edge and Superpower, but that just cuts into its longevity), Earthquake to hit fire-types (which it has a pseudo-weakness to) on the switch, and some form of recovery in Pain Split. All it really needs from tutors in later games is Drain Punch, and it would be the ultimate Assault Vest tank; even without drain punch, though, it's still a great defensive tank, since Fluffy gives it a Defense stat of about 178. Of course, its Fairy weakness, vulnerability to statuses, and the aforementioned Fire pseudo-weakness mean that it probably won't be the most top-tier of threats, but I'm willing to bet this guy will be at least UU, maybe even OU.

This is my first analysis please be gentle

For reference:

This thing is RIDICULOUSLY bulky. Moment it gets Drain Punch in the next game, it'll be a wrap.

[Sheep]

Unfounded competitive speculation featuring the Litten evolutionary line here.

Mods, if this qualifies as something obscure as Tier Discussion or something more than it does datamine material please move my post - I just wanted to be safe and keep the spoilers away from competitive savvy users who don't want to know everything yet.

Torracat

Blaze/Intimidate

85 Attack, 80 Special Attack, 90 Speed, 50 Def/ SpeDef

Notable moves - Fake Out, U-turn, Fire Blast, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Crunch

Ideal Items - Eviolite

Tier? - PU

I can really see this thing being super annoying with it's decent defenses and Eviolite -and- intimidate. It almost has that Monferno feel in PU, except that it's probably a little bulkier after the -1, allowing for it to get off those free Fire Blasts more often. It's speed (which is better than it's final evolution's. :C) puts it in the middle of the PU tier and faster than many of the hazard users such as Kricketune, Golem, Torterra, the aforementioned Monferno, Gigalith, Carracosta, etc.) which could cause some frustration for slower set-ups. Fake Out allows it to get chip damage, and U-turn allows it to get out of a sticky situation.

Intimidate makes this thing pretty viable in the tier if you ask me.

Incineroar

Blaze/Intimidate

HP: 95

Atk: 115

Def: 90

SpAtk: 80

SpDef: 90

Spe: 60

Total BST: 530

Fire/Dark

Items to consider: Assault Vest, Choice Band, -maybe- Choice Scarf, Leftovers

Potential? Offensive -and- Defensive

Moves - Darkest Lariat, Throat Chop (a 60 BP move that prevents the opponent from using sound base moves for two turns), Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Earthquake, Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Flamethrower, Wisp, Toxic, Swords Dance, Substitute, Outrage, U-turn

Yeah, yeah, it's slow - but it's also distinctly BULKY and has intimidate, which will make it a strong defensive Pokemon with things like Will-o-wisp for added insult. It also can pivot with U-turn, which goes very nicely with Intimidate. The neat thing though is that this thing has a lot of coverage moves, which makes it a pretty decent AV user.

One of the things that's pretty telling is that Cross chop gives it a move that can hit things it's typing wouldn't allow you to hit well, and we got the feeling the Heel Fighter would get some access to Fighting type moves. It also gets Earthquake, which is just a fantastic move in general.

Choice items, particularly the Band moreso than the Scarf, are viable, given the fact that U-turn can really put a hurt on someone after a boost. It's defensive enough as well to consider Lefties.

You could potentially cause a switch with intimidate and get a Sub up for free if you don't with your opponent caught trying to attack it at -1, then go for Swords Dance to make Incineroar threatening. It also can be used to RestTalk potentially.

Final verdict?

It's a UU Pokemon - with some opportunities to make it in an OU squad as a niche weapon against things like Bisharp and Mega Scizor.

I agree with Torracat's placement in PU, it'll definitely make a splash there with decent offenses, very good speed, and both Intimidate and U-turn. I'd say it's most common set will be a specially offensive LO set with U-turn, but we'll wait and see.

I definitely don't agree with Incineroar's placement in UU though. The main way I foresee this being used is with full HP and Def investment, with Will-o-wisp and leftovers. A bit like Granbull, but with a much worse defensive typing. Weak to fighting, water, rock, and ground with that speed stat? Whether it's being used offensively or defensively I'd say you're being optimistic to say it'll be seen out of NU.

What I'm interested to see is where Golisopod and Toucannon end up. Golisopod looks like another Archeops, great stats and a bad ability. The ability isn't nearly as crippling as Defeatist though, and Bug/Water is a very strong type combination so maybe we'll see it in RU? I really hope Toucannon drops all the way down to PU personally, it could be a really cool scarfer there.

[Swampellow]

So Burn Up is going to be crazy on Typhlosian because it makes it type less and gives it no weakness? Gonna be insane,

Edit: Also Araquanid with its Water Bubble ability and Liquidation, because Water Bubble helps to make up for its terrible attacking stats.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Swampellow

[Chase]

Tsareeena

Tsareena

Grass

Abilities: Leaf Guard / Queenly Majesty / Sweet Veil
HP: 72
Atk: 120
Def: 98
SpAtk: 50
SpDef: 98
Spe: 72

Noteworthy moves: Trop Kick (70 BP Grass type move that lowers the foe's attack one stage), Rapid Spin, High Jump Kick, Acrobatics, U-Turn, Play Rough, Toxic, Light Screen, Reflect, Synthesis, Aromatherapy

Potential: Offensive Spinner/Bulky Spinner/Assault Vest Attacker

That 120 Attack is huge for a base 72 speed 'mon. It slightly outspeeds and is basically on-par with Bisharp in terms of offense due to it's stat distribution, and with High Jump Kick in it's learnset, that Bisharp isn't going to be very keen on taking this thing on... because of Queenly Majesty, meaning it can't Sucker Punch it!

For a Grass type, it's got fairly considerable bulk, which paired with the attack lowering side effect of Trop Kick will make Tsareena thick -.....sorry, had to get that obligatory pun out of the way. You get the point. It can quickly become a problem.

Finally, it has some pretty interesting moves. Tsareena gets access to the always helpful Rapid Spin, which means it's able to clear hazards, while being essentially uncaring about Stealth Rock damage. It can set Screens, it can heal it's team, and it can heal itself with Synthesis, which goes pretty well on a bulkier Grass type like Tsareena.

High Jump Kick gives it an out against Steel Types, and U-turn could be used on choice/AV sets to take out other Grasses and Psychics.

I think what makes Tsareena potentially great is that it has some options, but isn't nearly as complicated to use. The benefits of having Rapid Spin means it can still do it's hazard clearing job even in an Assault Vest.

Like EVERYTHING in Alola, it's speed is a problem, and I am taking the gamble on Incineroar surpassing expectations already. Expect this thing to be in RU for sure though, while potentially being a REAL PAIN to those fat water types in UU.