For the Republic, All Entailed.

[Eviora]

I don't think this thread is working the way it's supposed to be working.

[5hift]

Here's your positivity (and Legos):

Forgive me if I sounded harsh but considering the things I've seen today, I just can't help but feel a bit embarrassed about how some people are taking this election.

I was really hoping for a swift end to all this madness but you can't have everything.

[Chase]

I didn't say it was gonna happen overnight.

Some of us have clearly made more progress than others in coping or getting the celebration out of the way. This is expected.

It's a growing process. These discussions NEED to happen. Bridges need to be crossed. If not - we won't improve standings at all.

[Eviora]

I feel so bad for you. It must be hard having to view other people worry about losing their rights on a message board. Naturally, the correct response is to behave like as much of a sociopath as possible. That's sure to make us feel more accepted and less endangered.

[5hift]

I feel so bad for you. It must be hard having to view other people worry about losing their rights on a message board. Naturally, the correct response is to behave like as much of a sociopath as possible. That's sure to make us feel more accepted and less endangered.

Hey I can sound condescending too, wanna hear?

Did I miss something when you said you're losing your rights? Which rights, exactly?

[Eviora]

I've already heard you sound condescending. That's kind of the whole point of my post.

[Tempest]

There's no need to go at each other's throats. Intelligent discourse is necessary to understand where everyone is coming from and to understand what we as a society need to improve on. Fighting and yelling won't get us anywhere.

[Kurotsune]

Do you honestly think that's going to happen?

There's a difference between thinking something and actually making it a reality. In this case, I can very well guarantee you that this will never happen. Unless Pence wants to have his balls removed from his body from an angry mob, this will never happen.

I should just mention: he never once condoned electroshock therapy, and he never outright said he condoned conversion therapy. Last time he really said anything about it was over 15 years ago.

Pence was nothing more than a figurehead added to Trump's campaign for GOP approval

He'll be more ineffectual than Biden

Saying there's a line between say and do looks good on paper and also ultimately misses the point.

The appalling fact is not the inherent possibility of the man acting up on his opinions but rather that, when those opinions were public knowledge, this man was elected to the second highest seat of power within the American government.

If he's going to act on it or not is not as worrying as the inherent premise that one concludes from his election - Which is that the great majority of people agree with those ideals.

If the man ever does it or not doesn't matter. The fact people are okay with him saying that and still put him in power matters. Elections aren't decided by actions. They're decided by words. So regardless if someone does or doesn't act on those words, to disregard them because they are "prolly not gunna do it" is missing the point.

There's no need to go at each other's throats. Intelligent discourse is necessary to understand where everyone is coming from and to understand what we as a society need to improve on. Fighting and yelling won't get us anywhere.

...And while that's also a good sentiment, "intelligence" and "understanding", when it comes to humans, are not exactly similar. To understand someone means to feel empathy, which is an emotional and not rational skill. Fighting and yelling are also emotional expositions - And they're bound to bring greater change than a cold assessment of facts. As Chase has said, it's a necessary step.

A necessary step in an ultimately flawed plan, but a necessary step nonetheless.

[Felicity]

Disclaimer, this was in another personal topic in the nightclub. Putting it here as an extra opinion for you to possibly consider in the panic.

Ok, on second thought, I was going to leave it at that with a fairly blase hand wave to someone else but it would be irresponsible of me not to put down my thoughts on one of the most historic events I've been alive to witness.

When I first woke up and saw the results my stomach fell away. I am a white man in the UK, as far removed from the damage Trump could cause as almost anyone could be. This says two things. Either the media has done a damn good job in painting him to be a threat or, this possibility trusts my sense of a person far more, he genuinely does pose a threat. If not to me then to people I care about.

That said, there is two sides to every story. I have met many people I do not personally like but are still perfectly competent. I have been wrong many times about how bad a situation could be. I have seen moments of kindness fro people I didn't expect it from. Words are all too easy to doubt and I do indeed doubt what Trump said in his victory speech but if he can conduct himself as a gracious victor, something I never expected, then maybe he can conduct himself as a president should.

I do worry for marginalised groups and I've been blase about the issues they face in the past but I do think there is considerable risk here. If not directly because of Trumps actions then indirectly by his influence. Riots caused by upset minorities, emboldened moves by bigots, a gentler social view towards prejudice. There is division in america clear even to an outsider from across the pond and that divide may widen before it narrows.

Two things need to happen as I see it, putting aside where Trump may lead the country. The election system needs to change, it should not be so divisive. Next, we as a generation of people, everyone living right now, needs to learn to recognise that, as surreal as it seems, we are genuinely making history and a certain amount of seriousness needs to be brought to bear. Trump was dismissed as a joke for so long. He was very much underestimated. What if he had been taken seriously as a candidate earlier on? Maybe people would have looked at the other candidates more critically and maybe there would have been better people up to bat. Who knows?

Sorry if this is perpetuating the repetitive drag of this topic but I can't just sit silent. As I said, this is a historic day. A scary one.

[HughJ]

Saying there's a line between say and do looks good on paper and also ultimately misses the point.

The appalling fact is not the inherent possibility of the man acting up on his opinions but rather that, when those opinions were public knowledge, this man was elected to the second highest seat of power within the American government.

If he's going to act on it or not is not as worrying as the inherent premise that one concludes from his election - Which is that the great majority of people agree with those ideals.

If the man ever does it or not doesn't matter. The fact people are okay with him saying that and still put him in power matters. Elections aren't decided by actions. They're decided by words. So regardless if someone does or doesn't act on those words, to disregard them because they are "prolly not gunna do it" is missing the point.

Yeah I'm with you, the comment wasn't excusing Pence or his viewpoints, it was a small point of optimism

I've disliked Pence from the beginning, so I suppose marginalizing him was my best attempt at coping with the fact he's gonna be head of Senate

Realistically I don't believe he'll put across the "reforms" many are fearing, and you are correct that his rhetoric ranges from sickening to downright incorrect

Many Trump supporters react to him with indifference, and if they were to look further into him they'd probably realizes he's just as establishment-flavored as Hillary

[5hift]

Saying there's a line between say and do looks good on paper and also ultimately misses the point.

The appalling fact is not the inherent possibility of the man acting up on his opinions but rather that, when those opinions were public knowledge, this man was elected to the second highest seat of power within the American government.

If he's going to act on it or not is not as worrying as the inherent premise that one concludes from his election - Which is that the great majority of people agree with those ideals.

If the man ever does it or not doesn't matter. The fact people are okay with him saying that and still put him in power matters. Elections aren't decided by actions. They're decided by words. So regardless if someone does or doesn't act on those words, to disregard them because they are "prolly not gunna do it" is missing the point.

Everyone harbors their internal prejudices. But should that ever impede them from doing their best as a public servant? Never.

So as public servants, I expect them to work within their power to be the best they can for the people. This is just me trying to be optimistic but I know what was said may be very disturbing.

It would be in Pence's and Trump's best interest to avoid such absurd ideas and try and work to unite the people.

Even Hillary displayed some disapproval towards LGBT rights at one point but that didn't seem to stop thousands of people from voting for her.

Edited November 10, 2016 by 5hift

[The Swordsman]

Unfortunately it looks like riots are going on in protest against Trump, I know people hate Trump but we are supposed to accept whoever won.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DpfV1DS2pE

[5hift]

Unfortunately it looks like riots are going on in protest against Trump, I know people hate Trump but we are supposed to accept whoever won.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DpfV1DS2pE

There's a difference between rioting and peacefully protesting.

That thumbnail is very misleading unless I'm blind and didn't see the fucking burning car in the video.

Those people have the right to protest as long as they do it peacefully.

Edited November 10, 2016 by 5hift

[Commander]

Okay, I'm kind of staying silent (and likely going to avoid people and these discussions for a while), but the level of toxicity over this thing has gone beyond healthy. I'm not talking just Reborn but just everywhere in general. I get that people are upset with the votes and I was upset at first, but I got over it. Trump is not the end of the world, and maybe he could even bring in change that needed to happen. The election is done and over with and I feel everyone needs to spend a day completely isolated from politics living through this bloody campaign. We're all going to be okay.

Once the whole Trump is evil and will ruin the world mindset leaves, I feel then people can talk about issues that will have to be addressed, but in a civil manner. Seriously take a step back and not think about the candidates and just see what people are saying and doing. This also isn't the first time in history where the popular vote did not win.

[The Swordsman]

I just found about this on the news on TV so I just tired to grab the first vid I came across, here is some news site link I got off of Google,

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2147684/violence-erupts-across-the-us-as-pro-clinton-fans-riot-after-donald-trumps-shock-election-win/

[Chase]

You know.

I was thinking about this earlier. As a conservative under an increasingly liberalized America for eight years there WERE times where MY livelihood felt like a dying breed. I remember personally wondering if - after the Mayor of Houston initially mandated all preachers in the area to submit their sermons weekly for review - America was slowly beginning to actively "crusade" against practicing faith in general out in the open for the sake of people groups that share her leftist ideology. I remember dreaming of being jailed in the same manner as the apostle Paul for the sake of sharing the Gospel in the open and having to prepare my heart for it - even if American liberalism never got to that point.

I remember being told that because I was male, I didn't have a voice at all when it comes to defending the rights of the unborn. I remember being told that because I was white, I didn't have a voice at all when it comes to relationships between African Americans and the police.

I remember sitting with people who lived in rural areas, talking about city slickers and trying to convey their liberal lifestyle to a group of people that weren't hateful, but were being left behind and were getting whiplash as to how all of a sudden they were viewed as the enemy by an entire political ideology.

As someone's spent a lot of time observing the Trump voter in their natural habitat - they aren't all that different from the liberals on this board that are hurting. I wasn't all that different either.

---

The deck is stacked pretty highly - to be quite honest - against liberals after yesterday's Republican wave. It would be much more reliable to claim the system of checks-and-balances was in effect if Democrats flipped the Senate to check Trump, or if Hillary were to win the presidency and had to deal with a mostly GOP controlled Congress.

This means that conservatives need to ACTIVELY seek to take care of their liberal friends if they truly do deem their lives important. If there's anything I've learned from being Tye-dyed by the Obama Administration and liberalism in America, it's that whitewashing and beating liberals over the head with conservative takeover is only extracting cold revenge and not pushing America forward.

The public opinion is the strongest bet for the left right now. Luckily for them, they start with the advantage there - but with conservatives jumping on board our expectations of the Trump Administration would be simple. Don't damage America. For anyone.

If conservatives want to avoid being oppressed when Democrats return to the workbench - because I have a feeling it will be 'Morning in America' again for the left eventually - we would be prudent to do better than leave our brothers, sisters, and distinguished relatives in the ravine while it's our turn to influence America's direction.

---

As a conservative, I've already had some stark differences with other notable right-wingers.

• We should lessen prison populations, not increase them.
• We should lessen sentencing for petty crimes.
• We should have MORE programs in place for rehabilitation that could be used in place of jail time.
• We should do more to help our education system from the public level -and- the private level.

From being on this board, there are a few stances I have come to grips with through talking with many of you.

• We need to make sure transitional therapy is VIABLE and UNQUESTIONABLY available in America.
• We need to make sure that we don't take a step "backwards" when it comes to same-sex couples. I won't call it marriage - but in terms of benefits given by being in a marital relationship - every type of pairing out there needs to be exactly the same.

[HughJ]

I watched MSNBC's coverage of the entire race from beginning to end. Though they obviously had some liberal bias, they kept it very professional and neutral throughout.

I was pleasantly surprised at how they managed to make intellectual commentary on the race, based heavily on statistics (it was very refreshing for me, as most of what has come out of major news outlets for the past year has seemed misleading, paid-off, or clickbaity). One of the women casters at one point raised the excellent point: "What do these polls say about us?"

When she said us, she meant the liberal media. The tone of her voice when she asked the question implied the meaning, "Were we, the liberal media, responsible for Trump's rise?"

I'd say yes. Hunter, you do touch on the conservatives of America that felt increasingly distant from the decision-making on the coasts, in the urban centers, and in Washington, in order of specificity. And while pundit statistics do state that Trump won a clear majority among this population, he also won 43% of the college-educated vote, the group most associated with that fast-paced liberal attitude. Now, at first glance, most people (not just Clinton supporters) would make the case that voting for Hillary was simply an educative difference - something in education makes apparent to people the instability in Donald Trump's arguments.

But if that were the case, wouldn't we be seeing an even wider Clinton majority in the educated? I didn't major in political science, but from all the pundits I've been following throughout this crazy ride, I've picked up that there's never just some unanimous motive or circumstance that dictates how a population will split. I think the MSNBC newscaster's point really brought to light the unintended role media played in isolating college-educated voters.

When discussing the role of the media in this election, two well-discussed points are the news' ridiculous affinity for Donald Trump, especially in the Republican primary, and their often blatant rigging for Hillary in the Democratic primary. But I'll make the case that many college-educated voters became so disillusioned with the media and its sorry excuse for journalism (pardon my subjectivity) that they came to associate it with the establishment and aligned themselves with Trump.

And now that I think about it, a 9-point lead for Clinton among the college-educated population is a big lead - but now consider the role third parties had in splitting the ticket. Johnson alone received 4 million votes this year, and I'd estimate a third of them came from that same disillusioned college-educated population. Look at that pewresearch article - Clinton led Trump 52% to 43%, with 5% going to neither.

In a world without third parties, I'd say 3.5 of that 5% would go to Trump, and Clinton would lead by only 7 points among the college-educated.

The fact that so many college-educated people were willing to vote third party also speaks volumes about how many were willing to vote Trump, despite having lived in an almost certainly liberal environment for three or four years. The media really dug its own grave, huh?

[Cyanna Cyril]

Personally, I wish the transition was more smooth than it appears at the moment. Sure it's early to really see the full transition, but I find it appalling my entire social media (besides here) seems entirely out of touch with reality. I've seen my close friends denounce ALL Trump supporters as deplorable, racist, xenophobes etc., and when I asked if that included me, one of their closer friends, they replied yes. I see the riots in Chicago and New York and it's frightening that these are all the people around me, furious and chaotic over what I view as a sensible, democratic victory. I see petitions to remove the electoral college entirely, which was created to prevent the Presidency from becoming a pure popularity contest and representing all different states and demographics as well as it could. I see Calexit, and that's literally frightening people want to secede from the Union, literally without a government/economy/military to protect them from the superpower they plan to leave behind. And some analysts suppose that this election was caused by "white-lash" against the current president, when the data simply doesn't fit this.

None of this makes any sense; not even in the context of a "deplorable" president being elected. There's plenty of checks and balances to prevent one person from defining the entirety of American policy and culture, so why are these people appear so crazed and belligerent and frightened over one election they lost fair and square? This is especially strange since these same people blasted the candidate who won if he wouldn't peacefully accept the result if he thought he lost illegitimately. None of this makes sense.

I want the hate and the poison to stop. The people who elected this man are not the evil spawn that we're painted to be. We're individuals who felt we had no other choice to preserve most of our self interests. I'm honestly a closet trans-person, but I still voted for Trump because my conscience would not allow me to vote Hillary. I almost didn't vote for him, but I followed my conscience and ended up choosing that vote. So, am I truly a deplorable for wanting something different than left agenda? Am I a traitor to the LGBTQ community, a racist, or a xenophobe?

No. I don't believe so. So, I'd really appreciate that the hate and poison speech on both sides stop. No one is perfect, and we have reasons behind our choices. Don't paint this black and white based on your views. There's an opportunity here to Make America Great Again, but we can only do this if we unite because We're Stronger Together.

[Skeleton]

Am I a traitor to the LGBTQ community, a racist, or a xenophobe?

Yes.

[Yours Truly]

You know I don't think that Mr Trump won't be able to change much; I mean he'd have to get the approval of the congress to do anything right? and it's not like there will be any shortage of ladders for that nonexistent wall.

Let's face it; it's not the apocalypse; just make sure to vote against anything you find ridiculous.

[Eviora]

I would have really appreciated it if you hadn't voted someone who has no respect myself or others like me into office. Alas, we can't always have what we want. You took an action against us, and now you call our criticism of that toxic. Why would you think you'd be excused? Is it okay for you to hurt people because your conscience tells you to, but not okay for us to call you out because our consciences tell us to?

Tears, excuses, even good reasons - none of them will erase what you did. Own it and everything that comes with it.

[Chase]

The worry with Congress? Republicans won that too - so it's not a situation of divided Gov. Trump is going to be met with subtle checks by Speaker Ryan and Sen. McConnell, but not nearly as much resistance as he would get from Democrats Nancy Pelosi/Chuck Schumer. It will mostly be mundane stopping. Budget committee stuff.

There actually is a bet Liberals can take solace in. Trump may be more moderate than people give him credit for. This is particularly specified to LGBTQ communities and women. This also means Trump may check Congress if it leans too far to the right.

If Trump is telling the truth in his victory speech. He is the president for all people. That means a bit for liberals on the outside looking in.

[HughJ]

I would have really appreciated it if you hadn't voted someone who has no respect myself or others like me into office. Alas, we can't always have what we want. You took an action against us, and now you call our criticism of that toxic. Why would you think you'd be excused? Is it okay for you to hurt people because your conscience tells you to, but not okay for us to call you out because our consciences tell us to?

Maybe Cyanna thought they'd be "excused" because all they did was exercise their basic right as an American citizen to vote for who they think should lead the country. Clearly, members of the SJW community - I'll call you that, because Cyanna referenced the LGBTQ+ community, which is a group of individuals united by their gender identification and sexual orientation, not their political opinion - would rather call that a drastic personal attack and stew in their own self-victimization than constructively acknowledge the other person's choice.

It's almost like civil political discourse is supposed to be expected in human society. And when I mean civil, I don't mean "no F-bombs please", I mean the basic acknowledgement that valid views exist outside your own. It's something America hasn't seen in a while, and for all intents and purposes, had their eyes gouged out for this election.

You took an action against us, and now you call our criticism of that toxic.

Criticism? You mean this?

Am I a traitor to the LGBTQ community, a racist, or a xenophobe?

Yes.

That's not criticism. That's defamation, assumption, and exclusion from a community that's meant to extend beyond pettiness and political interests.

Great job keeping up the Clinton Tradition of digging your own grave.

Edited November 10, 2016 by HughJ

[Gyaradoskiller]

You know, I thought that this thread was gonna be at least a little good and civil, but I was disappointed.

On another note, we'll need to see how he actually is when he gets inaugurated in January, so he has two months to prepare.

[The Swordsman]

Cyanna Cyril, no you are not and while yes the majority of the LGBT community did vote for Hilary, you aren't the only one that voted for Trump going by the people I talked to today. Also you are completely right about this poisonous attitude and should be respected for doing what you thought was right despite knowing that people would hate you for it.

Edited November 10, 2016 by The Swordsman