Generation 7's changes and reborn

[Treeharl]

Alright, I be very carefull here not to post any possible spoilers here. I know the question about the new pokemon has been answered before but there is still alot unclear about the other "changes new stuff". First allow me to make two categories, changes to existing pokemon and mechanics and new pokemon and forms. From these two categories I am able to make a few subcategories aswell. I would like to know what things from gen 7 could be imported in reborn and in what order.

Category 1 changes and new stuff to the existing meta and Pokemon.

1a Changes in gen 1-6 Pokemon movesets and abilities, possibly with gen 7 moves.

This category is pretty straightforward as this will be porting the changes from gen 7 to the existing pokemon. Whenever gen 7 moves or new abilities are assigned they need to be scripted in Essentials. This seems prehaps as a possibility for E17 as the amount of scripting isn't that big. When sun and moon are released it is just checking 721 Pokemon's movesets and abilities and making changes acordingly.

1b Changes in gen 1-6 Pokemon stats

This one is actually very easy to do as there is no scripting involved. Just changing some stats in a PBS file does the trick here. In my opinion implimenting 1b only makes sence after 1a has been implimented.

1c Changes in meta as in items used status etc

Not going to specify this as that would result in spoilers.

1d Z-moves

I don't think it is a good idea implimenting those at all as it will require much redevelopment (aigain not posting information here to avoid spoilers.) Let just summerize I personally feel they aren't fitting for Reborn at all.

Category 2 new Pokemon

2a Starters

Personally I think they could join the grand hall tables at E17 and not be included in any event hereafter untill postgame.

2b New forms of existing Pokemon

This one seems to be hard fitting in the current game for now. We don't know how they will preform in the new meta and some of them require new events (that I would guess take alot of development). Prehaps they could be included partly in E18 or something.

2c New Pokemon

Same reasoning as 2B. It has been made clear they won't be included before E19 I believe.

I am personally really looking forward seeing 1a and 1b to be included in reborn as soon as possible. Still I am aware that will take a hefty chunk of development and scripting. I do agree 2b and 2c should be pushed to a later date to ensure quality over quantity. 2a could still be implimented without changing much to the game.

I know I am a bit vague at certain categories as I am trying not to spoil anything. Still I am curious about other people's opinion on this topic (please refrain from spoilers).

[5hift]

Pretty sure most gen 7 stuff isn't going to be touched until all the episodes of Reborn are released.

We still got a couple more episodes ahead of us.

It'd be too much work to go back make the changes now.

[Exalted]

Well seeing how reborn has already transitioned between gen 5 to 6 itll probably happen before Episode 19 but kinda doubt it would be soon likely can happen with episode 19 depending on the time taken for episode 17 and 18 and thats after we get 16 thats to be released after beta.One main factor you have to consider the games haven't been even official released yet and the leak business 11 days ago does not make to much of a difference to that fact so when each mechanic is out and up to see the number of mons all changes new forms and everything in the changes to previous generation mons simply its to early to consider adding gen 7 to reborn it will happen before episode 19 most likely or with it but itll take time id say its still far to early to be considering seeing the new mons and mechanics its better to give the mods their time to introduce everything necessary slowly instead of rushing it in one by one.

[Treeharl]

My focus is rather on the gen 7 update on existing mon's and mechanics instead of the new mons. If we take into account that E17 would take 1/2 development time of E16 that would mean we have half a year to introduce the new mechanics. I surely know the games haven't been officially released, although the current information available gives a rough indication what could be brought in to the game early prehaps and what needs to be put on a much later scedule. I agree with the fact the new mons should be placed on a scedule for E19 earliest with the new forms prehaps be introduced a tidbid earlier.

[Tartar]

I think you're misunderstanding something, Amethyst hasn't made the engine and script (Pokemon Essentials) which Reborn is running on, another team completely unrelated to Reborn has been doing that.

First things first, before Ame can't even start implementing anything relating to Gen 6 the developers of Pokémon Essentials have to implement all the new features into the script of Essentials which will likely take a while. It took them 2 to fully implement Gen 5 Pokémon, and they just finalized the support for the Gen 6 Mechanics in Version 16 which released last December, 2 years after the release of X and Y. So at the very least before adding new mechanics, transformations and whatnot we'll have to wait a year or two. The Pokémon themselves should only take 3-4 months to add though.

Reborn itself first got support for Gen 6 Mechanics in Ver 15. It's way too early to even consider the implementation of Gen 7 mechanics at this point.

[Neo]

The game will probably not include gen 7 shit, tbh. It's mad close to the end and may come like at a waaaaay later date, but I wouldn't hold your breath on it

[Marcello]

I think you're misunderstanding something, Amethyst hasn't made the engine and script (Pokemon Essentials) which Reborn is running on, another team completely unrelated to Reborn has been doing that.

First things first, before Ame can't even start implementing anything relating to Gen 6 the developers of Pokémon Essentials have to implement all the new features into the script of Essentials which will likely take a while. It took them 2 to fully implement Gen 5 Pokémon, and they just finalized the support for the Gen 6 Mechanics in Version 16 which released last December, 2 years after the release of X and Y. So at the very least before adding new mechanics, transformations and whatnot we'll have to wait a year or two. The Pokémon themselves should only take 3-4 months to add though.

Reborn itself first got support for Gen 6 Mechanics in Ver 15. It's way too early to even consider the implementation of Gen 7 mechanics at this point.

Alright so just gonna pick up on this here. No Ame didn't make the engine and scripts but we are free to alter the scripts ourselves and indeed, most issues and non-full support for Gen VI mechanics were dealt with as bugs by myself and a number of others. So, when we deem appropriate, we can ourselves implement any necessary changes scriptside for Gen VII, in the same way we have fixed bugs in the past and added new features.

That said, no official word on the topic at hand, we're focusing on getting E16 out before we even think of starting to formalise any plan we have towards GenVII content. Feel free to continue to speculate of course though, just thought I would clarify that we most certainly do not have to wait for the essentials team to do the work for us that's what I'm here for

[Tartar]

Alright so just gonna pick up on this here. No Ame didn't make the engine and scripts but we are free to alter the scripts ourselves and indeed, most issues and non-full support for Gen VI mechanics were dealt with as bugs by myself and a number of others. So, when we deem appropriate, we can ourselves implement any necessary changes scriptside for Gen VII, in the same way we have fixed bugs in the past and added new features.

This sounds interesting. Could you please expand on which parts Gen 6 the Reborn dev staff had to make themselves?

[Marcello]

Well, I should give fair warning that I wasn't even a player of Reborn before it had Gen VI, let alone on the dev team, so I can't say how much of the initial implementation came from Essentials, but if you look at, for example, the wall of bugs, there are a number of things there pertaining to GenVI features and additions not working correctly or at all which have been fixed. Just to list off a few things that come to mind which I have dealt with in E16's dev cycle, there were issues with Spiky Shield & King's Shield, as well as parental bond. If you want to look at more broad features, the fact that unbreedable mons have a guaranteed 3 perfect IVs is a feature added in GenVI that I have added during the development of E16. I'm sure there's more stuff too, but this is what has come to mind.

[Treeharl]

This sounds very intresting Marcello! Still I would love to know if 1d has been decided to be excluded from Reborn, or does it still makes some sort of entrance in to the game (RIP development I guess). I am also a bit curious about 2a as that doesn't seem to be a huge change if 1a and 1b are included (just some sprites and a bit of text in a PBS file).

[Amethyst]

Pokemon Essentials, at the time I started using it, was updated to partially through gen 5. It had Gen 4/5 pokemon but many moves/items/abilities from post-gen 3, were not fully functional

We filled in the holes and added gen 6 ourselves.

Essentials has since caught up but we're no longer using the releases from that.

I'll make a decision on Z-moves after seeing their context in game.

I intend to implement Gen 7 content in the final release.

[Troxalos]

Pokemon Essentials, at the time I started using it, was updated to partially through gen 5. It had Gen 4/5 pokemon but many moves/items/abilities from post-gen 3, were not fully functional

We filled in the holes and added gen 6 ourselves.

Essentials has since caught up but we're no longer using the releases from that.

I'll make a decision on Z-moves after seeing their context in game.

I intend to implement Gen 7 content in the final release.

Are you going to implement the smaller changes before the ''full gen 7 release''?

I'm talking about stuff like stat and ability changes for some pokemon, that have been datamined

[NickCrash]

Since the abilities and pokemon are already implemented into the game, this can be made sooner. However, it's up to the dev team if they want to implement them. Personally I would not change Gengar's ability, but that's just me.

The biggest problem is in Spriting. So if you are looking at things that take time, this should be first on your lists.

Edit: The only thing that scares me is that Gyarados got a bit buffed in Gen7, which only means delayed implementation in Reborn.

[BlackRum]

Reborn does make quite a big effort to balance things out. I highly doubt the dev team will just take all the new stuff and throw it in the game as fast as possible. We can't really predict how the new content will work out, how the meta will shift and which strategies become viable just because there already is some leaked information available. Likewise it's highly unpredictable how the new stuff will influence reborn, which is a system on its own. I expect the devs will take a "wait-and-see"-approach and wait until they can get a feel of the pokemon by playing the new games. That way they'll have a better idea how to fit in the new things lore and balance wise.

Even if they're "just" stats and ability changes, I doubt they'll be quick to implement them either, as it can turn the whole balance upside down. Just think back to Gyarados. It didn't have any flashy new mechanics, just beastly stats and awesome abilities and it wrecked everything to the point where it was removed for being too broken. You can't really predict which pokemon will be in a similar situation after the "smaller changes". This as well will take a lot of figuring out, testing and adjusting. It will take its time.

So be a tad more patient, boys. We'll get all the gen 7 goodies, it's just going to take a while.

Cheers

Also Ame please give me back my Magikarp.