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Consider balance changes ?

iskelion

By iskelion
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iskelion

iskelion

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I know OP pokemon were made unobtainable, but did the developers consider at some point changing pokemon stats, moves, abilities to "buff" weaker pokemon and/or nerf stronger ones to make every pokemon "usable"?

I made a list of buffs/nerfs going from Gen 1 to 6 as example.

List:

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Alistair

Alistair

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Game Freak buffed or nerfed stats, added moves or abilities because they were implementing new content, mons and gameplay features with each new generation. They had to do it in order for the older mons to keep up and still have a role in the metagame.

The thing is, from what I've seen Reborn isn't trying to do that. Reborn doesn't create new mechanics or fakemons, so there's no need to add non canon buffs or nerfs and potentially break the game's balance.

Besides, nerfing pseudos or legendaries just to be able to use them earlier would cheapen the satisfaction of acquiring said pseudos and legendaries imo. I'd rather wait until e19 to finally be able to use the best mons at their full power. I trust Ame and the team to give us access to them in due time, so the game remains as balanced as possible.

Edit: my statement about Reborn not creating new mechanics isn't completely true, because there are the Field Effects. But I think the point still stands.

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Tartar

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Whoa, that list must've taken quite a while to make O_o

But honestly, I would personally not want such a change from Reborn, where they rebalanced certain Pokémon. It would feel inauthentic to the real Pokémon experience. Technically it's probably not that difficult, as it's just about editing some lines of code, but the main thing is that it's kind of a pointless endeavour. You want certain Pokémon to be stronger than other's to have a good progression in the game. You go from being a hobo going through garbage, catching Ratattas and Pidgeys to having an A-tier Team of Amazing Pokémon. Were all pokémon to be equally viable this experience would disappear and all sense of progression would be lost.

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iskelion

iskelion

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  On 11/16/2016 at 10:16 PM, Alistair said:

Game Freak buffed or nerfed stats, added moves or abilities because they were implementing new content, mons and gameplay features with each new generation. They had to do it in order for the older mons to keep up and still have a role in the metagame.

The thing is, from what I've seen Reborn isn't trying to do that. Reborn doesn't create new mechanics or fakemons, so there's no need to add non canon buffs or nerfs and potentially break the game's balance.

Besides, nerfing pseudos or legendaries just to be able to use them earlier would cheapen the satisfaction of acquiring said pseudos and legendaries imo. I'd rather wait until e19 to finally be able to use the best mons at their full power. I trust Ame and the team to give us access to them in due time, so the game remains as balanced as possible.

Edit: my statement about Reborn not creating new mechanics isn't completely true, because there are the Field Effects. But I think the point still stands.

Im talking more whats mentioned on the list, mostly buffing weaker pokemon (Farfetch'd, etc.) and nerfing 600 stat dragons a bit so they'll fulfill their roles without being OP, basically adding diversity and not ending up with everyone having similar teams.

  On 11/16/2016 at 10:18 PM, Tartar said:

Whoa, that list must've taken quite a while to make O_o

Almost 2 weeks i think :P, i checked stats, moves and abilities to polish each pokemon's identity.

I get the thing about progress, but even pokemon that become obtainable at the same time (lets say Froslass & Delibird or Blaziken and Meganium) show a no-brainer about which to choose, even leading to choose the one you "like less" just because it is extremely better.

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Lightp

Lightp

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The Blaze Black and Volt White rom hacks do something similar by re-balancing pokemon stats, move pools (it mostly make them less reliant on tutors), moves (ie: Cut is a 60 power Grass) typings (ie: Golduck is Water/Psychic). It also give you the option to play the hack without any change for those who prefer vanilla mons.

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Combat

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  On 11/17/2016 at 1:35 AM, Jericho said:

I can see you spent quite a bit of time on this, however as mentioned before. Amethyst wants to stay true to the framework laid out by game-freak for the pokemon themselves, hence why you don't see custom mega evolutions or fakemons. I read some of these and they're very well thought out.

With the exception of the Pulses of course.

I've found myself using Pokemon I've never considered using thanks to Reborn, all because we aren't given our desert before supper (aka, getting the best stuff immediately.) Many Pokemon are viable, so its kind of fun to learn the mechanics even more.

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Commander

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I suppose the best way to put it is that not all Pokemon are supposed to be good or even "viable". Due to that, people can cripple or buff their teams based around how to use such a mon. Game designing for these mons is something reflected upon that. There are tiers for that very reason competitively. This actually works out very, very well for the player side giving so many options on what to do, which not all games have such a luxury.

Though on the opponent side, it's a little bit different as a crippling weakness is very crippling for them which is why in Hardcore I'm probably going to give a couple of the leader Aces stat buffs (because Volbeat and a couple others need it badly). It's moreso for a difficulty perspective over true to the original game.

I get what you're saying and doing, but how much a Pokemon is used isn't just based on how good or useful it is, but WHEN it can be obtained. Reborn, sorry to be blunt, punishes people who try to swap out their team due to the limited experience to the point anything post Aya is...really not worth using unless it is really, really good. So if you want to make mon's better in Reborn, make them available earlier in the game, not give them small buffs.

I just glanced through the list and while there was a lot of thought put into it, I could categorize quite a large number into the don't bother category. Anything will a small stat adjustment isn't going to really feel that different unless it's speed, and curse is...a gimmick that is very situational. Coverage moves definitely help some mons out, but many of them have mons on the just as good or way better which they'd lose against.

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iskelion

iskelion

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  On 11/17/2016 at 3:32 AM, Commander said:

I suppose the best way to put it is that not all Pokemon are supposed to be good or even "viable".

I get what you are saying and i even thought of that myself, i guess the strength of the buffs can be so not all pokes are equally strong, but that if you want to use, lets say Beautifly because it looks cute and you like it, it won't just be dead weight.

Also so if multiplayer becomes available, you won't be seeing just the same pokes over and over.

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mde2001

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This isn't gonna happen in the main game, partially because it would make balancing the game really hard if everything was about even. I've seen some fan games that have tried to make everything viable and they just get really tedious as every battle stretches out forever as everything is too good. Also changing around pokemon too much would make it really untrue to the original games which isn't the intention and by having all pokemon be equally good it would make the battles really bland. The way it is currently you can use weaker pokemon to give yourself a challenge or stronger ones if you aren't the most confident battler.

That being said, once the game is completed it will be fully open to user mods and editing pokemon stats is really quite easy, so if you're still around when its done you could implement this yourself and have fun with it.

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iskelion

iskelion

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  On 11/17/2016 at 8:41 AM, mde2001 said:

This isn't gonna happen in the main game, partially because it would make balancing the game really hard if everything was about even. I've seen some fan games that have tried to make everything viable and they just get really tedious as every battle stretches out forever as everything is too good. Also changing around pokemon too much would make it really untrue to the original games which isn't the intention and by having all pokemon be equally good it would make the battles really bland. The way it is currently you can use weaker pokemon to give yourself a challenge or stronger ones if you aren't the most confident battler.

That being said, once the game is completed it will be fully open to user mods and editing pokemon stats is really quite easy, so if you're still around when its done you could implement this yourself and have fun with it.

But... don't things being more even be the definition of balance ?

The general idea of the changes is that if you like some pokemon, you can use it without it being dead weight (a waste of space) in your team.

I kinda disagree on a balanced game making battles bland, i think lack of balance makes them bland as they decrease versatility, reduces the amount of movesets used and makes most outcomes incredibly predictable.

You can still use "weaker pokemon" by just not evolving them.

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