Trading vs game balance

[roqi]

First of all, huzzah for E16! It made my week, I love how much content we got, it was so worth the wait.

 

But, I was very surprised to see trading implemented with no requirements in a game that has thus far been meticulously balanced as to its difficulty, going as far as axing previously available Pokemon that were deemed too powerful. And now, within five minutes of starting the game, anyone can acquire a Torchic, Ralts or Eevee? Don't tell me that it's hard; I got all of them in like 15 wondertrades.

 

I understand that it's the player's own potential choice to ruin their fun, but still, thus far Reborn has not allowed players to do that. Some people (such as myself hahaha..aahha...ha...) have little willpower to spare when it comes to resisting gambling like Wondertrade and I know that if I had started the game now, I'd spend a good while (hours) until I got what I wanted, rendering the limited choice of Pokemon in-game irrelevant. Hell, I did exactly that when playing Pokemon Uranium. I couldn't resist. Others might be driven to trade for "better" Pokemon when frustrated by a particularly tough battle, instead of trying different strategies with what they already have available. Or to just trade for that elusive event 'mon instead of hunting it down.

 

I knew online was coming, but earlier I had expected that it would be accessible only past a certain amount of badges, or even in post-game -- it wouldn't surprise me. So if I may ask, why was this choice made? And what do y'all fellow players think about this?

[Jan]

Well, it's like you said, it's up to the player to make that decision. Even if the player does obtain a super strong mon from WT, it's their choice whether or not to use it.

If the player cannot control themselves and gambles all their pokemon away for potentially broken pokemon, it's still their fault for using the feature. 

 

I'm sure the choice was there to provide more connectivity between different players. Overall just to add more fun.

If it gets out of hand, I'm positive things will be implemented in the future to provide some sort of balance. 

[FairFamily]

Meh, I mean it is either trading gets abused or no trading at all. At any point a pokemon could have been traded that allows gives a trainer an advantage it shouldn't get. I get that balance is important but at the same time trading was always available. Heck people even hacked the game to give other people a certain set of mons. So making it a bit more accessable is not really that much of a deal to me.

[MetrololAce]

You can also just edit the save file to get those Pokemon. There have been plenty of ways to cheat in this game, and if you choose to do so you may. 

Trading pokemon is an odd addition, but one that speaks volumes for how far this game has came.

Frankly, the game isn't that difficult either way and its not like it has some leaderboard. There are far worse ways the game could be changed that would actually change its difficulty. 

[Slicster]

I used the Wonder Trade once, got a level 74 Gardevoir,  I'll breed it then send it back, as Ralts was previously obtainable in Peridot Ward.

[roqi]

There's a difference between people using third-party applications to cheat and using a game feature.

[Galladiator]

9 hours ago, roqi said:

There's a difference between people using third-party applications to cheat and using a game feature.

Agreed, if its a feature of the game then people won't consider it unfair or cheating and they'll be a lot more likely to abuse it. And getting overpowered stuff early in the game kind of ruins the fun of the challenge that reborn presents. Ametrine city seems like a logical place for it to get unlocked, they talk about how the computer network runs better up there so maybe have one of the Tech people up there figure out how to activate wondertrading for you. It's late enough in the game to not ruin the fun and still lets you have time to use anything good you happen to get going forward, although could possibly be a bit too late in. And if you were determined to abuse trading early on you could still do it through regular trading. Plus I'd love to see a new sidequest to unlock it like the day care or move re-learner ones.I dunno, but I do kinda dislike having that available the second you start the game.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Galladiator

[roqi]

On 5.12.2016 at 7:46 PM, Galladiator said:

Agreed, if its a feature of the game then people won't consider it unfair or cheating and they'll be a lot more likely to abuse it. And getting overpowered stuff early in the game kind of ruins the fun of the challenge that reborn presents. Ametrine city seems like a logical place for it to get unlocked, they talk about how the computer network runs better up there so maybe have one of the Tech people up there figure out how to activate wondertrading for you. It's late enough in the game to not ruin the fun and still lets you have time to use anything good you happen to get going forward, although could possibly be a bit too late in. And if you were determined to abuse trading early on you could still do it through regular trading. Plus I'd love to see a new sidequest to unlock it like the day care or move re-learner ones.I dunno, but I do kinda dislike having that available the second you start the game.

I think that both normal trading and Wondertrade are just too abuse-able, though I agree that setting up an actual trade is somewhat more complex than just sitting there re-doing WT. Ametrine sounds like a good place to unlock them, I agree. And a side-quest would be great! Trading makes the game a LOT easier than the day-care or move relearner, so I don't see why the player gets it without working for it at all.

[thedeath245]

I'm not entirely sure how this would break the game balance seeing you cant trade pokemon that were previously axed aka no gyrados / gengar. 
Undoubtedly, it would make the game a bit easier now that you can potentially have 2-3 starters at the beginning, but mid to late game, the difficulty should remain relatively same. 

I agree with others, maybe limiting trading until Calcenon or Ametrine would be a better option

Edited December 6, 2016 by thedeath245

[MetrololAce]

On 12/5/2016 at 4:56 AM, roqi said:

There's a difference between people using third-party applications to cheat and using a game feature.

My point was if you were going to "abuse" a pve game that should be played for fun you can already abuse things much much easier. 

[roqi]

4 hours ago, thedeath245 said:

I'm not entirely sure how this would break the game balance seeing you cant trade pokemon that were previously axed aka no gyrados / gengar. 
Undoubtedly, it would make the game a bit easier now that you can potentially have 2-3 starters at the beginning, but mid to late game, the difficulty should remain relatively same. 

I agree with others, maybe limiting trading until Calcenon or Ametrine would be a better option

Getting 2-3 starters, Ralts, an Eeveelution, Abra, or a number of other Pokemon at the beginning would make the game much easier. Mid to late, for now there wouldn't be much of a difference, but in later episodes - when we do get Magikarp etc., getting them would affect the game's difficulty also, imo.

 

2 hours ago, MetrololAce said:

My point was if you were going to "abuse" a pve game that should be played for fun you can already abuse things much much easier. 

Have you ever actually tried to use Cheat Engine or RPG Maker? I assure you it's more difficult than wondertrading for a couple minutes.

[thedeath245]

30 minutes ago, roqi said:

Getting 2-3 starters, Ralts, an Eeveelution, Abra, or a number of other Pokemon at the beginning would make the game much easier. Mid to late, for now there wouldn't be much of a difference, but in later episodes - when we do get Magikarp etc., getting them would affect the game's difficulty also, imo.

 

 

2

but that's what I said xD easy early game. No change in mid-late game. 

Surely this would catch Ame and developers attention, maybe they will think of something.

[roqi]

1 hour ago, thedeath245 said:

but that's what I said xD easy early game. No change in mid-late game. 

Surely this would catch Ame and developers attention, maybe they will think of something.

And I'm saying that in the future it will make a change in mid game. : P Especially powerful starters like Torchic or Froakie, that still haven't been available in-game, are a big advantage at this point.

[Amethyst]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:02 PM, roqi said:

I knew online was coming, but earlier I had expected that it would be accessible only past a certain amount of badges, or even in post-game -- it wouldn't surprise me. So if I may ask, why was this choice made? And what do y'all fellow players think about this?

 

Yeah, it's a sacrifice no matter where I put it in, but I figured aside from adding an out for players who aren't up to the challenge the game internally offers, as well as enabling specialized runs from the get-go, it would probably add more value than it would remove. 

[ff9alex]

5 hours ago, Amethyst said:

 

Yeah, it's a sacrifice no matter where I put it in, but I figured aside from adding an out for players who aren't up to the challenge the game internally offers, as well as enabling specialized runs from the get-go, it would probably add more value than it would remove. 

 

There is also the Level limitation,  so it doesnt matter if you have 1 badge and get a lv50 Greninja

 

But i would sugest something made trade avaible but wonder trade unlockeable after like .7-8 badges, as you have the posibility to do so (enabling specialized runs)  by speaking with other players in the cominuty and offering something thats make them worth their trade, kind of like work a little for it.  For example what can a newby have that i with more than 10 badges dont? or that i cant get from wonder trade?, maybe he manage to breed one with perfect IV's maybe i change him a stronger pokemon out of pity or maybe i want 1 starert that for some reason i could not had have or he got an egg with an Axe or Azumarril.

[Slicster]

Yeah I completely screwed up my Pokedex, luckily a lot of the Pokemon I received are obtainable from wild encounters.

[MetrololAce]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:08 PM, roqi said:

Getting 2-3 starters, Ralts, an Eeveelution, Abra, or a number of other Pokemon at the beginning would make the game much easier. Mid to late, for now there wouldn't be much of a difference, but in later episodes - when we do get Magikarp etc., getting them would affect the game's difficulty also, imo.

 

Have you ever actually tried to use Cheat Engine or RPG Maker? I assure you it's more difficult than wondertrading for a couple minutes.

I use it near daily. Its not complicated at all, and involves no rng whatsoever as wondertrading would to get a strong pokemon. 

You must be missing my point either way. 

[roqi]

On 8.12.2016 at 10:35 AM, Amethyst said:

 

Yeah, it's a sacrifice no matter where I put it in, but I figured aside from adding an out for players who aren't up to the challenge the game internally offers, as well as enabling specialized runs from the get-go, it would probably add more value than it would remove. 

Hmm, I guess. I see where you're coming from... it's a (pardon me) trade off.