The New Pokémon

[Lara]

So this isn't exactly Gen V Pokemon, but I was just reading up on some of the latest coverage and..

[quote]TMs do not disappear after use[/quote]

My new favorite pieces of news ever.

In Pokemon news, I'm kind of excited that they're making the deer Pokemon three different colors, like they did with Burmy.

Team Plasma makes me giggle. A lot. I don't think I'll be able to take them seriously.

I wonder why they're showing me a picture of Vaporeon in the news section...

[Geo]

[quote name='Lara' post='2582' date='Aug 9 2010, 06:45 PM']I wonder why they're showing me a picture of Vaporeon in the news section...[/quote]
In the dream world,its going to have Hydration instead of water absorb.

[NoGoodBoyo]

[quote name='Geo' post='2580' date='Aug 9 2010, 06:15 PM']So its best not to guess Resistance and weakness til they get info on all the pokes in the 5th gen.[/quote]
When has resistances ever changed? Other than in Generation II...but that's partly due to the fact that two new elements were added.

They're not going to change resistances. That's silly.

[Stars]

[quote name='Lara' post='2582' date='Aug 9 2010, 06:45 PM']TMs do not disappear after use[/quote]
Super special awesome.

[quote name='Geo' post='2583' date='Aug 9 2010, 07:01 PM']In the dream world [Vaporeon is] going to have Hydration instead of water absorb.[/quote]
See above.

[quote name='NoGoodBoyo' post='2585' date='Aug 9 2010, 08:28 PM']When has resistances ever changed? Other than in Generation II...but that's partly due to the fact that two new elements were added.

They're not going to change resistances. That's silly.[/quote]
What he said.

[Mashew]

New Elements??... and hydration??

[Stars]

[quote name='mashew' post='2653' date='Aug 10 2010, 05:19 PM']hydration??[/quote]
Instantly cures any negative status while it's raining (i.e., free Rest recovery without the 2-turn sleep).

[Valentine]

[quote name='NoGoodBoyo' post='2585' date='Aug 9 2010, 09:28 PM']When has resistances ever changed? Other than in Generation II...but that's partly due to the fact that two new elements were added.

They're not going to change resistances. That's silly.[/quote]
Something needs to be done about some typings really, when it comes down to the terrible ones like grass or ice compared to steel. Not to mention better typings get better secondary typings in general which nullify their weaknesses, there's a terrible gap. Be it through a reworking of the system or more varied typings things could be fixed

[Mashew]

Do not call grass weak it is just as strong as any other type and btw what is up with the pic....

[Valentine]

[quote name='mashew' post='2662' date='Aug 10 2010, 08:50 PM']Don't you dare call grass weak!!! Just cuz you can't battle with it doesn't mean it's weak and btw WTF is up with the pic....[/quote]
Grass is weak to 5 common types and is resisted by 7 types. Steel resists [i]11[/i] types, including psychic and dragon, two very strong types. Of all the grass types only [i]2[/i] are neutral to fire. On a steel team, you can just carry a heatran. Grass types have one gimmick, which is chlorophyl ability in the sun, which ironically, powers up the fire moves they're weak to. Face it, they are statistically weak.

[Mashew]

Shaymin dominates all Steel >> statistics dont mean crud when you have faith and ability.

[Valentine]

[quote name='mashew' post='2665' date='Aug 10 2010, 09:10 PM']Shaymin dominates all Steel >> statistics dont mean crud when you have faith and ability.[/quote]
I have faith that heatran can burn shaymin to a crisp, and then Metagross, registeel, jirachi, and bronzong can trample the remains quite frankly.

[Mashew]

No I have beaten many Heatran with shaymin >>

[Stars]

Psychic was a great (read: decidedly overpowered) type in Gen I, but its time in the lime light has passed (Sorry, Ame).
And there are some decent Grass pokemon out there, but the type itself is pretty horrid.

Deal with it.





And Ice may be a terrible type defensively, but it's a great attack type; similar to how Steel is superb for defense but offers unimpressive attack coverage and is resisted by several common types.





[spoiler]Also, Water is the best type~[/spoiler]

[Mashew]

Yeah water does rule... and oh man i ♥ Psy!!

[AZKnight]

[quote name='Valentine' post='2663' date='Aug 10 2010, 06:02 PM']Grass is weak to 5 common types and is resisted by 7 types. Steel resists [i]11[/i] types, including psychic and dragon, two very strong types. Of all the grass types only [i]2[/i] are neutral to fire. On a steel team, you can just carry a heatran. Grass types have one gimmick, which is chlorophyl ability in the sun, which ironically, powers up the fire moves they're weak to. Face it, they are statistically weak.[/quote]

First of all, how do you determine what common type is? Grass is weak to Fire, Bug, Flying, Poison, and Ice. Personally, I don't consider Poison and Ice to be common. Scratch that, I don't consider [i]any [/i]type to be common. There are over 400 Pokemon, you can't dub types to be common. Oh, and that Fire weakness? Steel is weak to Fire, too! Plus Grass resists Electric, Water, Ground, and Grass so that's pretty good. If anything Grass is an example of a standard type: Weak to 5 types, resists 4 types, and the rest are neutral. As Stars said, Steel is a very defensive type, which is why it resists so much. It's the nature of the type. It is only Super Effective against Ice and Rock while is it NOT effective against Electric, Fire, Water, and Steel. And then you say Steel resists Dragon and Psychic, two "very strong types." Last I checked, Dragon as a type was pretty bland. It is ONLY Super Effective against other Dragons and everything else takes neutral except Steel. Just because you resist Dragon does not make Steel the God Type. And then Psychic is only Super Effective against Fighting and Poison, while Psychic also resists and Dark is outright immune. If you want to talk resistances, look at the immune types like Ground tp Electric and Flying to Ground. To say that a Steel team it "unbeatable" is just stupid. If it was true, then you would never beat Stevens in Hoenn. Statistically, Grass is NOT weak nor is any type.

[Mashew]

I agree with AZKnight! Thanks lol

[Amethyst]

Also as for Grass and Ice being defensively frail, note that both of those gym leaders run stall teams. >.>

[Mashew]

Me too...... lol Cradily♥

[Valentine]

[quote name='AZKnight' post='2715' date='Aug 11 2010, 04:11 PM']First of all, how do you determine what common type is? Grass is weak to Fire, Bug, Flying, Poison, and Ice. Personally, I don't consider Poison and Ice to be common. Scratch that, I don't consider [i]any [/i]type to be common. There are over 400 Pokemon, you can't dub types to be common. Oh, and that Fire weakness? Steel is weak to Fire, too! Plus Grass resists Electric, Water, Ground, and Grass so that's pretty good. If anything Grass is an example of a standard type: Weak to 5 types, resists 4 types, and the rest are neutral. As Stars said, Steel is a very defensive type, which is why it resists so much. It's the nature of the type. It is only Super Effective against Ice and Rock while is it NOT effective against Electric, Fire, Water, and Steel. And then you say Steel resists Dragon and Psychic, two "very strong types." Last I checked, Dragon as a type was pretty bland. It is ONLY Super Effective against other Dragons and everything else takes neutral except Steel. Just because you resist Dragon does not make Steel the God Type. And then Psychic is only Super Effective against Fighting and Poison, while Psychic also resists and Dark is outright immune. If you want to talk resistances, look at the immune types like Ground tp Electric and Flying to Ground. To say that a Steel team it "unbeatable" is just stupid. If it was true, then you would never beat Stevens in Hoenn. Statistically, Grass is NOT weak nor is any type.[/quote]
Ice is very common. It's run on most water pokemons specifically to hit grass and dragon types. See swampert, milotic, suicune, etc. You're completely failing to see that "common" refers to the types within the metagame. There are very few common grass types in OU, like celebi, roserade and shaymin. However, there are maaaaany steels. Heatran, Metagross, Bronzong, Skarmory, Lucario, Empoleon, the list goes on.

The reason this is, is a reason you mentioned. Steal is a defensive type. However, it is the most diverse as well. What steel type doesn't carry earthquake to hit fire types? Only 2 grass types do that. How many steel types are offensively strong enough to ohko any counters switching in? Metagross and heatran do it all the time. Grass types, however, are unvarried. Their secondary typings are not beneficial to them in any ways so their attack coverages are consistently lacking. What can venesaur do to a faster flying or fighting type? Nothing. This brings up the speed aspect of them as well, just another area that's lacking but it makes no difference to a low tier typing anyways.

If you think that dragon is not an offensive type, I dare any of your grass types to not be 2hko'd by a choice band dragonite outrage. Really, don't make such ignorant comments. Steel is the ONLY type that resists those attacks and the only thing that will survive. And for that matter, try to survive a psychic from espeon or alakazam. Your precious grass types are constantly cursed with poison typing which makes them all the easier to sweep.

Grass simply lacks defensive power and the versatility to address counters, there is no way to downplay it. Try to diss steels all you like but they are the prime examples of a top-tier type like water. They have the movepools to cause damage and take it, where as grass types are just too slow and frail to compete. Although I love your metaphor of not being able to beat stephen, and misquoting me saying they're unbeatable. Because I could just retort and tell you I kicked Erika's ass without looking twice. In-game means nothing and you know that.

[quote]Also as for Grass and Ice being defensively frail, note that both of those gym leaders run stall teams. >.>[/quote]
Hail stall only works because of snow veil and wailren. A grass stall would be easy to wallbreak.

[Mashew]

and again... do not diss the grass!!! you can think all you want but in the end grass can be just as dominating as your precious steel types who btw can be swept by shaymin >>....... And its not really a top tier type... seriously isnt << and lets see how you fair against Florinia and Blake while saying that they know how to handle their types just like i do!

Also Steel types are also pretty slow unless you have Bullet Punch or baton pass to a steel type >>... Agiligross cant set up unless baton passed to

[Valentine]

I don't even like steel. It's just objectively good. Shaymin can only sweep an absoloute shit team, really. Even then, one mid-tier pokemon does not a good type make.

[Mashew]

you mean does not make a good type right?? anyways >> then lets drop the argument and just talk about the new pokes

[Valentine]

[quote name='mashew' post='2728' date='Aug 11 2010, 07:00 PM']you mean does not make a good type right?? anyways >> then lets drop the argument and just talk about the new pokes[/quote]
No, no I don't. I "does not a ___ ___ make" is a common higher English phrase.

[Bullet]

[quote name='mashew' post='2726' date='Aug 11 2010, 05:45 PM']and again... do not diss the grass!!! you can think all you want but in the end grass can be just as dominating as your precious [b]steel types who btw can be swept by shaymin >>....... [/b][color="#FF0000"][/color]And its not really a top tier type... seriously isnt << nad lets see how you fair against Florinia and Blake while saying that they know how to handle their types just like i do![/quote]

I'd really like to see that O_o

*Warning long rant ahead Warning*

While I can't entirely agree with Valentime, he does hae some good points. A type being "frail" or anything is only a generalization. There will always be exceptions. And yes, there can be "weaker" types, whether offensively or defensively. For example, poison. The only type it can hit super effectively is Grass, and there's a type that has an immunity to it, making it poor offensively for the most part. Face it, Pokemon aren't meant to be equal. Every type cannot be dominating in any given metagame, and there are constant shifts with new movesets being dicovered, as well as the Pokemon brought by each new generation. Currently, Grass is a rather "weaker" type, in comparison to types like Ice and Steel. I'm not sure who said Steel was unbeatable(WTF?), but it can't be denied that Steels have many advantages, with 11 resistances and and 1 immunity, as well as a pool of diverse Pokemon. The point is, saying that Grass types are just as good as any other is nice and all, but it's just simply not true.

/rant

I'd really like to see that Shay min sweep..... O_o

[Mashew]

bullet you have seen it Sweep >.> many times <.< Evo remember? and OOOOOOOOOk Valentine