Personthing Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Announced today in Nintendo's Fire Emblem direct, we have a remake of Fire Emblem Gaiden, the second game in the Fire Emblem Franchise. Released on March 14th, 1992 this sequel to the first Fire Emblem game is a very influential game in the franchise introducing many concepts that the series has revisited such as: The world map, three tier class trees, having various monster classes as enemies, branching promotion paths (executed quite a bit differently than in future games, but they were introduced in Gaiden), multiple parties of player characters, and unbreakable weapons. Yet it's also an odd duck in the franchise with some ideas that have never been revisited, primarily village and dungeon exploration. Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia launches on May 19th 2017. Whether you're new to the Fire Emblem franchise, or a long time player, what are your hopes for this entry of the series? Edited January 19, 2017 by Personthing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yours Truly Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Oh wow I didn't realize that this was a thing, I actually liked playing the original game, I just hope that they keep the original Villager>That Swordsman char>Something or other> Demon Hunter > Villager thing, since that was always funny to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 #JUSTPLAYGAIDEN #AGAIN #MAKEGAIDENGREATAGAIN!? --- ok. Hype aside, there were two games I wanted to go back and play after entering the series with Fates. Radiant Dawn and Gaiden. Gaiden was the great-grandparent of modern FE in many of its gameplay elements. It's the first stones throw and while it's an ugly duckling and quite aged - it's also the kickstarter for many great titles following it. Echoes being on the 3DS is all I wanted. Now the game just needs to come out. (I for one -do- hope child units and pair up mechanics from Fates/FEA stick around as a series noob. Alm+Celica=Wunderkind.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Personthing Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) Now don't want to get anyone's hopes up, but here's a neat theory I saw earlier today: https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/5osxdx/echoes_isnt_the_name_of_the_gaiden_remake_its_the/ Basically the idea is that the "Echoes" part of the title is an indication that it's a part of a new sub-series dedicated to remaking the old Fire Emblem games rather than the main series. If this were to be true I'd be ecstatic. Now for what I'd like to see from Shadows of Valentia myself, well it's honestly mostly just map touch ups and expanding on the original story. (I'd mention speeding up the gameplay but this is solved by default due to the 3ds Fire Emblem engine) The original Gaiden's maps were very, simple for lack of a better word because it was an NES game and they were more focusing on the new ideas they were bringing along. Some more objectives too please. The story gets the same pass because it was an NES game and had some interesting ideas. Finally, I'm really looking forward to hearing Gaiden's soundtrack remastered, just listen to this, it's amazing: Link to a playlist of Gaiden's OST just so you guys know the treat we're in for: Edited January 19, 2017 by Personthing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 In that case. Hopefully Echoes features a Fates remake where Conquest's story isn't awful, Birthright has more diverse gameplay objectives. And Revelations doesn't muck up BOTH story -and gameplay. --- I hope the story is fleshed out for SoV. One of Gaiden's knocks is that outside of its gameplay mechanics art, maps, characters, and story felt bland and quite thin. If children aren't a thing. I want support conversations. I want more cutscenes like Alm and his grandfather sparring from the Direct. I want. Some meat and potatoes. The gameplay will probably carve its own path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YinYang9705 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) I just hope the dungeon design is good, a mp system is added, and no avatar because fuck kris. also 8 hours ago, Chase said: I hope the story is fleshed out for SoV. One of Gaiden's knocks is that outside of its gameplay mechanics art, maps, characters, and story felt bland and quite thin. If children aren't a thing. I want support conversations. I want more cutscenes like Alm and his grandfather sparring from the Direct. I want. Some meat and potatoes. The gameplay will probably carve its own path. It was an NES game, there wasn't much that could be done with the story. Edited January 19, 2017 by YinYang9705 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 10 hours ago, Chase said: Echoes being on the 3DS is all I wanted. Now the game just needs to come out. Yeah I was watching the direct like "Hunter's gonna love this". Personally I also love this. After playing the rerelease of Gaiden I'll have played every FE game (or a remake of that game) in history outside of Thracia 776. I am planning on playing Thracia before Echoes comes out though because I absolutely loved Genealogy and I'm super keen to continue exploring the world of Jugdral. So basically before this news got dropped Gaiden was going to be the odd one out that I'd never played, and wasn't planning on playing, so this is absolutely perfect for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Well - yeah. Gameplay was the only thing Gaiden had to sell due to it's limitations. Past that though, it's those same limitations that held back the game from being as well acclaimed along with its not being available to Western audiences for a while. With a bit of paint at the very least, Emblemiers old (for sure) and new (possibly) will probably compare it to the likes of Genealogy, Sacred Stones, and Awakening. Yes Sheep. I want this game. Like right now. I have decided not to hope for things like pair up so much because it's a very recent concept and wasn't -IN- Gaiden. I won't be upset if it's not there, but I'll miss it. I just hope a "talk" option or something is there for character and world building. Deep characters help story. I dig the third person LoZ like 3D dungeon crawl. I also like the Shrine flexible promotion system. And 2017 Celica is a vast upgrade. #alreadyabetterlordthanCorrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 The updated visual design for Alm and Celica look great to me. Can't wait for their amiibos to come out. Not sure I'll play this game. I know it's series history and whatnot, but the whole opposite extremes storyline doesn't appeal to me at all. I think gameplay details might sway me but we don't know much yet. Or maybe if they do something more with the FE amiibos than the little bit they did with 'em in Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Mael. Get it. That way you have something to use the Amiibos on other than possibly FEWarriors or hoping Alm and/or Celica make the 5mash roster. #Justplaygaiden --- Gameplay will likely be the big seller for one's first time in Valentia though. For previous FE2 players it will be story that defines if it's Gaiden 2.0 or another Shadow Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, Chase said: Gameplay will likely be the big seller for one's first time in Valentia though. For previous FE2 players it will be story that defines if it's Gaiden 2.0 or another Shadow Dragon. Here's the problem as I see it. The biggest issue with Shadow Dragon is that it essentially was Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light 2.0. The upside of this is that it's faithful to the original, but the downside (and it's a BIG downside) is Fire Emblem as a franchise has evolved and been refined across the course of many games, making a return to the earlier games feel like the player is taking 15 steps backwards. With that in mind what I really want to see out of Echoes isn't Gaiden 2.0, but a game inspired by Gaiden, with all of the neat aspects that set it apart from other games, but a slew of other features from more modern Fire Emblem games as well, most prominently real character differentiation through support conversations. These people need personalities. Shadow Dragon and its sequel needed to live up to the example of the preceding Tellius games, but instead we got a return to the very first Fire Emblem games and the result of this almost killed the franchise. This new Gaiden remake has an arguably even loftier bar to reach, that of Awakening and Fates, and I very much hope that Intelligent Systems has learned their lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I think the game needs to strike a happy medium. If it's a remake of Gaiden (with maps that mirror Gaiden) then it absolutely has to hold to the original NES title. If the Direct is correctly naming SoV as "inspired" only, then there is more room for creative deviance and thus more room for later features (Pair Up, Children, skills, support conversations, etc) What appears to be the case from the Direct is that Alm and Celica and Cliff and Saber and Alm's granddad and Duma and Mila are ALL making a return to fight it out for Zofia and Rigel. The Echoes story seems to be more of a "2.0" or at the very least a modern interpretation of Gaiden than a merely inspired story. We also appear to see gameplay that highlights Gaidens towns and dungeoneering, 1v1 conflicts, flexible promotion trees, and anime styled cutscenes along with game engine ones. No pair up is seen and there are only differences in number of loadable units from 1992 to 2017 on the map shown. This Direct teaser -may- have been geared to series Veterans - but from what we know so far "how Gaiden it is" seems to be the goal for IntSys early on. Newer Emblemiers get a year to dabble with the retelling, a Warriors game, and a mobile game that features plenty of series characters before FE:Switch is released in 2018. I personally agree with you on support conversations, - and I like the Waifu-Sim and child unit optimization mechanics a lot actually - but the biggest issue is that many older FE players HATE Awakening and Fates for being expository, sexualized, and this isn't Alm and Celica's first go around. It would surprise me to see newer returning FE mechanics in this particular game because of this sentiment. Remember when Nintendo removed skinship for Fates in NA? That was a breaking point for the FE community. One where older players demonized the angry newer players for being hurt by the loss of content they liked. Gaiden is a very old game. It's successor -somehow- needs to serve it's fans first and foremost. I hope people like me don't have to relearn the game to enjoy it - but I hope it makes it and Gaiden memorable at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Personthing Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Maelstrom said: The updated visual design for Alm and Celica look great to me. Can't wait for their amiibos to come out. Not sure I'll play this game. I know it's series history and whatnot, but the whole opposite extremes storyline doesn't appeal to me at all. I think gameplay details might sway me but we don't know much yet. Or maybe if they do something more with the FE amiibos than the little bit they did with 'em in Fates. It's kinda like the Hoshido/Nohr situation in a way (Still quite different, but one super wealthy country vs a very militant country), except one side isn't pure and good while the other side isn't exactly pure evil either. EDIT: If my tone came off as dismissive of your opinion that is definitely not what I meant. Edited January 20, 2017 by Personthing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I think the Direct mentions that Duma is essentially the territorial warrior god who founds Rigel - a country that is exceedingly strong in the military department but may be too totalitarian and seems to lack resources. Mila founds Zofia as the peace goddess - but her country lapses into a lulled state of gluttony (because humans ruin everything) and it's current ruler seems like a sloth. Gaiden was one of the in-house "inspirations" of the Nohr-Hoshido conflict. (And too a smaller extent Fates in general.) Rigel and Nohr are quite similar in composition. Poor militaristic states. Hoshido is essentially an eastern take on what Zofia wishes it was/used to be. When Silas mentions Nohr's depraved State being the reason non noble Nohrians fight - Ryoma offers to share resources in Birthright. Hoshido displays less than utopian actions often, notably in most instances with Azura. Mael, it probably still is a background context of opposite extremes. However, where Corrin was anchored by their choice of faction, the Gaiden story is more about Alm and Celica themselves and not who they fight for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 11 hours ago, Personthing said: It's kinda like the Hoshido/Nohr situation in a way (Still quite different, but one super wealthy country vs a very militant country), except one side isn't pure and good while the other side isn't exactly pure evil either. EDIT: If my tone came off as dismissive of your opinion that is definitely not what I meant. What you say is true and I ended up very much disliking most of the Conquest storyline. I just don't. See how the main characters fit into this background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 That's why you should justplaygaiden Don't use Conquest's story as a decision maker. It was hard to like because it was poorly written to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Reviving this to celebrate the fact that, after several people got their hands on the game for half an hour at the Dutch Comic Con, we have it confirmed that support conversations are indeed a thing in this game. They'll follow the example of the GBA games, where support conversations actually happen on the battlefield, and while it wasn't the most seamless system I've seen, it's a loooooong way better than no conversations at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviora Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Support conversations on the battlefield? xD The nostalgia! I remember waiting like 30 turns doing nothing on certain maps in FE7 just to for the convos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Blackworth Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Support conversations? I'm looking forward to the supports between Alm and Celica. I remember making sure that the main characters in the GBA games had supports with each other. Lilina and Roy, Eirika and Ephraim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Don't they only share one map together? It may be that they don't have supports, and instead their history is given to you by the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eviora Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I haven't actually played the first five Fire Emblems before (I generally don't emulate games), so I don't know what I'll be getting into character-wise with this game. I do hope they give the same treatment to some of the other old FE games that haven't yet been remade, though. It would be nice to actually play FE6 in English. Also, I'm a wimp and generally just play casual mode. FE 7-10 were great, but I don't miss having to restart whole levels over a single character death. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Blackworth Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Wait.... they share only one map together? Don't they join up armies at some points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yeah I'm pretty sure that's the last chapter. As for other old games that need this treatment FE4 and 5 are the big ones. Those two are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godot Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I am somewhat avoiding this game's trailers so I can go in blind. Btw I think the Amiibo are up for preorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Good news for those of you that wanted Alm and Celica to have support conversations. They're adding in another part after the point at which Gaiden ended, which we're all assuming will feature a combined army on your side. Guess they knew the fan outcry if Alm and Celica couldn't support would be pretty massive. Good news for everyone really I guess. More content isn't a bad thing, unless it's done poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.