Other serves have this. Reborn doesn't.

[Valkyria]

Spirit.

This is what separates us from the premier servers. There is no excitement, no drive, no oomph here on Reborn. Let me provide a few comparisons using tournaments.

Reborn:

-Time based tournaments signups constantly leading to small tournament sizes and players complaining they missed out

-What you hear when you win a Reborn tournament:

-No record of tournament wins

-Overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament.

PO:

-Quota based tournaments. The bracket isn't posted until the designated slots have been filled. Leads to larger, more exciting tournaments while remaining adjustable in size.

-What you hear when you win a PO tournament: "Congrats!" "Nice job!" ""Way to go!" "Gratz MARIK!" from dozens of people

-You can check all the tournaments a player has won in the past 30 days by using the command /tourrankings [playername].

-Little cup tournament, Gen 4 OU tournament, Rarelyused tournament, Wifi Ubers tournament, Monotype tournament, Monocolor tournament, Metronome tournament

There are literally hundreds of other examples, ranging from Mafia to Trivia and everything in between. These I won't even mention. Why?

Because Reborn doesn't need all of this to be amazing. Small things will keep Reborn lively. Someone wins a tournament - congratulate them. Someone asks for a battle - battle them. Someone asks for a LU tournament - support them.

Right now, Reborn's spirit is deader than Kim Jong il. With your cooperation, we can bring it back.

[Noivy]

Ok, this is a placeholder for how much I really want to explain things. This will be a very, very long post.

First and formost. What separates Reborn from other servers is the fact that it ISN'T A COMPETITIVE SERVER.

I know this from about a year and a half of ccoming here. Believe me, if you had been here a year and a half ago, NOTHING would appeal to ANYONE outside of Reborn. We had next to no tours. Very little regulation on tiers. No emphasis on Ladder. NUTHIN.

First, on the topic of the difference of Competitive vs what Reborn actually is, a community server.

A competitive server has all of what you listed for beta. Tournaments, Ladder, proper tiers. a highly involved competitive metagame.

A community server from what Reborn has shown me, is a server where a group of people like to wind down, and talk with others about other things. Reborn isnt just a pokemon community. We also play LoL, TF2, and many other games. We have forum threads where we can talk about what is going on in our lives. Most of the old members are Facebook friends with each other. I came here because a good friend of mine showed me this place, and I pretty much instantly fell in love with the people here. There was no one shoving their skill in others faces (Something which I have seen a LOT of on other servers). It's a chance for people to talk with other people and not be embarrassed about it, since you know, this is the Internet and all. The only catch is that you have to be respectful of others. Which is more than enough to make 75% of us happy. We dont want to be competitive. We dont want to have a complex metagame. We dont want to be like every other server. We want to be who we are and THATS THE SPIRIT OF REBORN.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Listar Iostone

[Yuki]

I genuinely appreciate posts like these (intelligent, well thought-out, and very easily followed by wholesome discussion[i've seen a lot of these from you in particular]) so I'll try to contribute as best I can in the short timeframe I have alotted before I pass out from exhaustion.

We generally try to make tournaments on request or when the chat is pretty dead, and if somebody asks for a certain kind of tournament (Usually CC or Uber) we'll go for it. A lot of the time though, it's just "Tourney please" so /tour 0 it is.

I agree that we should encourage people to congratulate each other more-- Bolstering good sportsmanship and a generally positive atmosphere all around is all that could come of it.

We had a mafia thing going on at one point... not sure what went on there.

In general I think the main attraction surrounding Reborn is either the league, or our higher standards of community.

Both of which are still and will hopefully indefinitely be ongoing, and we have the X-League for people who beat the normal one.

I stand by the idea that Gossip Gardevoir's job was probably a huge one that I miss dearly. The recap of league made it more like a sports event merged with a reality television show and the result was a more interactive league and a way to keep up to date on all the drama.

Amethyst has recently started up the Reborn Game, which is a real treat and I can personally attest to the notion that it's better than the 3rd gen games it was modeled off of.

I haven't any suggestions for how to liven up the server life, partly due to my lack of imagination and partly because my eyes are hardly open, but I'm more than happy to relay/communicate/broaden on any ideas anybody might have on the subject.

[Cyrus]

GENESIS HAS WHAT NINTENDON'T.

WE ARE NINTENDO. AME IS REGGIE AND HIS BODY IS READY.

[Ikaru]

Ok, this is a placeholder for how much I really want to explain things. This will be a very, very long post.

First and formost. What separates Reborn from other servers is the fact that it ISN'T A COMPETITIVE SERVER.

I know this from about a year and a half of ccoming here. Believe me, if you had been here a year and a half ago, NOTHING would appeal to ANYONE outside of Reborn. We had next to no tours. Very little regulation on tiers. No emphasis on Ladder. NUTHIN.

First, on the topic of the difference of Competitive vs what Reborn actually is, a community server.

A competitive server has all of what you listed for beta. Tournaments, Ladder, proper tiers. a highly involved competitive metagame.

A community server from what Reborn has shown me, is a server where a group of people like to wind down, and talk with others about other things. Reborn isnt just a pokemon community. We also play LoL, TF2, and many other games. We have forum threads where we can talk about what is going on in our lives. Most of the old members are Facebook friends with each other. I came here because a good friend of mine showed me this place, and I pretty much instantly fell in love with the people here. There was no one shoving their skill in others faces (Something which I have seen a LOT of on other servers). It's a chance for people to talk with other people and not be embarrassed about it, since you know, this is the Internet and all. The only catch is that you have to be respectful of others. Which is more than enough to make 75% of us happy. We dont want to be competitive. We dont want to have a complex metagame. We dont want to be like every other server. We want to be who we are and THATS THE SPIRIT OF REBORN.

ACTUALLLYYYYYYY

while, like Hark, I appreciate stuff like this as it's not just an attack on things someone doesn't like (read: people who show up only to say "ur tiers suck" or "no legends allowed in your league hahahahaha"), I have to say not everything here is true... I agree, we're more of a community server, and no complaints about it, naturally, but that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, or that we're not a competitive server. One would argue that we're all closer here than people are on Beta or whatever, but, last I remember the auths in Beta are all on Skype with each other a lot of the time, and all that; and yet they're still (obviously) one of the most competitive servers. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you know? We just kind of... don't. We have RMTs and tutoring and such, but not many people use them really.

As for the tiers, there's really no way to say anyone's are "proper." A metagame is defined by what the people use, and the tiers are shaped by that. Admittedly, ours were based on how we felt the Pokemon in question could perform and overall strength rather than just usage, but those aren't mutually exclusive. Regardless, yeah, ours are different and it HAS brought in some people who take things less (or more?) seriously... Still, no reason to dismiss all competitiveness.

The rest I completely agree with. I am very happy that everyone can sorta be more personal here, and Reborn is definitely not just Pokemon.

Hark's points are much shorter and spread out so brb editing within the quote

I genuinely appreciate posts like these (intelligent, well thought-out, and very easily followed by wholesome discussion[i've seen a lot of these from you in particular]) so I'll try to contribute as best I can in the short timeframe I have alotted before I pass out from exhaustion.

I think I addressed this above, so, yeah

We generally try to make tournaments on request or when the chat is pretty dead, and if somebody asks for a certain kind of tournament (Usually CC or Uber) we'll go for it. A lot of the time though, it's just "Tourney please" so /tour 0 it is.

Precisely; at the moment, to initiate an OverUsed tournament with the full command would look like this:

/tour single 0 overused

Where 0 is the number of slots open; this makes it timed, to 90 seconds.

"/tour 0" produces the same result and so generally we just do that. It is definitely possible to specify a certain number of slots, obviously, and even round robin tournaments, just that no one who asks for a tournament really gets too specific, so we just put in "/tour 0" and be done with it. I imagine with a specified number of slots we'd eventually just forget about it if all of them weren't filled, and this is probably why we just leave it undefined and let however many people join. I won't deny it's slightly lazy, and I've definitely seen "aww I just missed it" waaaaay more than once. Everyone reading this who cares about this issue, do us a favor and tell us what you want, huh?

I agree that we should encourage people to congratulate each other more-- Bolstering good sportsmanship and a generally positive atmosphere all around is all that could come of it.

Could not possibly be a bad thing, I'll be sure to work on that myself when I can be back on the server regularly, and hope everyone follows the example. I suppose this does classify under respect... Maybe we could make people do it or they get muted!

We had a mafia thing going on at one point... not sure what went on there.

It interfered with the custom scripts and just generally didn't work too well, so we got rid of it.

In general I think the main attraction surrounding Reborn is either the league, or our higher standards of community.

Ding, and ding.

Both of which are still and will hopefully indefinitely be ongoing, and we have the X-League for people who beat the normal one.

Ding the Third.

I stand by the idea that Gossip Gardevoir's job was probably a huge one that I miss dearly. The recap of league made it more like a sports event merged with a reality television show and the result was a more interactive league and a way to keep up to date on all the drama.

Ding dong the gardevoir witch is dead!

But yes, this is definitely a thing that needs to start again. Even despite my involvement in the league already and being there to see most everything anyway, I always looked forward to highlights cause I liked seeing my name mentioned all the t- err, because it was fun to read it from a different perspective, and all at once.

Amethyst has recently started up the Reborn Game, which is a real treat and I can personally attest to the notion that it's better than the 3rd gen games it was modeled off of.

Despite my inability to play it, yes, I agree that this is one thing that's probably pretty significant now.

I haven't any suggestions for how to liven up the server life, partly due to my lack of imagination and partly because my eyes are hardly open, but I'm more than happy to relay/communicate/broaden on any ideas anybody might have on the subject.

And of course, depending on the suggestions, we'd be more than happy to try and get them put into place ourselves.

As for the initial post...

-Time based tournaments signups constantly leading to small tournament sizes and players complaining they missed out

Addressed above

-What you hear when you win a PO tournament: "Congrats!" "Nice job!" ""Way to go!" "Gratz MARIK!" from dozens of people

Naturally there's going to be more of a reaction from several hundreds of people as compared to, say, 30-50. However, also addressed above.

-You can check all the tournaments a player has won in the past 30 days by using the command /tourrankings [playername].

I'll be honest, this never seemed quite necessary since usually it was always bullet the same person winning the tournaments. It probably couldn't be too hard to implement though. Possible.

Also in question here is the interest people would have in looking at other players' wins...

-Little cup tournament, Gen 4 OU tournament, Rarelyused tournament, Wifi Ubers tournament, Monotype tournament, Monocolor tournament, Metronome tournament

There are literally hundreds of other examples, ranging from Mafia to Trivia and everything in between. These I won't even mention. Why?

Both of these were addressed above as well, and again to be honest I'm not really sure what happened to the trivia. Amethyst or maybe even Nyu would have a better answer than I could come up with. I assure you though, we have had both at one point or another

Even a Reborn Trivia where I learned so much about the leaders when I was a wee noob <3

And as for variations in tournaments, we generally had really big ones with sign ups here on the forum instead of on the server, but we kind of ran out of ideas for themes, I guess.

http://www.poke-plac...?showtopic=2454

All of you with any interest at all. Go.

[Valkyria]

Iostone, how will implementing these features make Reborn less of a community? If anything they'll serve to increase the cohesion between players.

[Amethyst]

Thank you, Ika, for typing everything that would have taken me an two hours to get to.

We are slowly expanding into other kinds of casual tournaments. Before, all we had the userbase to do was OU- even now I'm still impressed when we manage a BL or LU tourney. So... we're moving in the right direction at least. Some of the things you mentioned I don't even know HOW to make tiers for, but if someone wants to take the point on designing LC or monotype tiers, I'd be all for it.

The time-based thing was covered, but yeah, when we did slots we often had people not join in time for the number of places, or not enough people, and then by the time the tournament started half of them had left. We can try quota again though, see how it works.

I'll try to set a better example for congratses

The /touranking thing is totally new to me. I'm sure it could be coded easily, though, this is just the first I've ever heard of it.

Thanks for your input, Valk'

[Cyrus]

Okay, now since I am on a labtop. I can reply.

Well first off, what most have said, Reborn is set apart by the high end community, it's league, and hopefully it's game. So competitive battling to the max is still not as welcomed here IMO. But what do you mean it has no soul? If it's no soul at all. You're fucking hilarious. Reborn is one community that is the definition of soul, due to some users having passion and emotions for this place. But in terms of battling, I have no idea due to not being hardcore into battling. But I really have nothing much new to add. But on Reborn's tourney system. Small tourneys are not taking as serious as the big forum filled ones. So you did miss out. I suggest you should look back at the tourneys we had in the past and help us with new ideas. In terms of good sportsmanship, this is something that is obvious to do. On different tourneys, small communities can cause trouble for this due to most users having only OU. But I am all up for this. I remember the Kanto league we had here which sounded really fun. Someone should bring this back up, with Hoenn maybe?

I think Reborn is more of an exterior community with the FB group, Steam group, and more for the future. That is where the true spirit and strive of Reborn lives due to you being in like a big family I guess. This is how we stand out as a community. Because the people here care about each other more then just online buddies. I'm all for change. But Reborn does have soul, just not in competitive battling (as much as Smogon, PO, and the other big names.)

[Kiozo]

Spirit.

This is what separates us from the premier servers. There is no excitement, no drive, no oomph here on Reborn. Let me provide a few comparisons using tournaments.

respectfully disagreed based on the fact that our drive doesn't have the same placement. Same drive, different areas.

Reborn:

-Time based tournaments signups constantly leading to small tournament sizes and players complaining they missed out

I was an auth for a year on another server. While we can still do 16 person [or whatever amount] tournaments, you will have someone join, and quit 1 minute later without taking themselves out. Then the game starts, and 3 battles can't happen because that person isn't here; it's almost guaranteed percents that at least one user does it. Players complain them miss out anyway, in both styles. I've seen someone talk their head off while the tournament is in sign-ups and then go T-T I missed it! No, you talked and want a bye now. Try again later. Not to mention when we have 16 man tournaments and only 8 sign up; that's who wants to play.

-What you hear when you win a Reborn tournament:

I've congratulated people before. May not be 100% of the time but I won't slave anyone over the task. Start out by starting it yourself.

-No record of tournament wins

Seems monotonous to say that it's routinely needed. Only way I could see it is if they contributed to some higher meaning. Even then it can be kept track of when applicable.

-Overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament, overused tournament.

Ask for something different? If I start something, and it's not OU, I get people angrily demanding that I change to OU. Or it won't fill up, as many people aren't competitive, we don't see many people building for a lower tier. They can play one game with what they like, and are happy. Also; I mean it when I say other tiers have tournaments that don't fill up, and in a time limit tournament, you only need 3 people for this to take place. Three.

PO:

-Quota based tournaments. The bracket isn't posted until the designated slots have been filled. Leads to larger, more exciting tournaments while remaining adjustable in size.

Been over this already.

-What you hear when you win a PO tournament: "Congrats!" "Nice job!" ""Way to go!" "Gratz MARIK!" from dozens of people

Hey it's me! Been over this.

-You can check all the tournaments a player has won in the past 30 days by using the command /tourrankings [playername].

addressed.

-Little cup tournament, Gen 4 OU tournament, Rarelyused tournament, Wifi Ubers tournament, Monotype tournament, Monocolor tournament, Metronome tournament

I won't get yelled at unless you ask for it. Even then I'm pointing them to you.

There are literally hundreds of other examples, ranging from Mafia to Trivia and everything in between. These I won't even mention. Why?

Because Reborn doesn't need all of this to be amazing. Small things will keep Reborn lively. Someone wins a tournament - congratulate them. Someone asks for a battle - battle them. Someone asks for a LU tournament - support them.

Trivia can be addressed however is appropriate, mafia I know a few servers had and they had to take it down because the game used the same scripts beta used, and had to remove them due to it. I know my old one did and was scripting new ones. Not sure what happened here.

So why bring it up if it doesn't matter? Note: I do congratulate, battle, and give tournaments. It's just stuff you may not see or credit.

Right now, Reborn's spirit is deader than Kim Jong il. With your cooperation, we can bring it back.

Depends on what you say it is.

Comments in bold.

Anyway, something I wanted to address is whether or not it's assumed or realized. I mean, as far as some stuff goes, I'm working on something for additional tournament interest. I haven't thrown it out there because I'm just working out kinks atm. As far as what other people said, there's a lot of interest in beating leaders and such.

I'd love to see a league recap...but I'll be honest, GG is not my type of person at all...so I didn't pay as much attention to it.

As far as other things go, LC/Monotype tiers? I'll work on the details. I made an LC tier before. I'll test with someone just to hammer out details. As for people count; take note a user count of 50 at best is not going to mirror one of 1.25k people at best. That's a vastly different number.

I asked for a code to be made for wins and losses. Although this would only tell the user his/her own specific statistics, it would be helpful if the user was interested in tracking it for whatever reason [Testing teams, win streaks, or even just the percentages per day]. My interest is in knowing how good my new teams do when I test. But I've seen people count up win streaks on them before too. It's nice. As far as making everyone else know....I see that being a bit less intriguing. Mainly because you find select users who really want to know who is "better" that who based on something that only fuels a subjective idea in itself. The rest of us won't use it as much if at all. People have many better uses for looking at personal stats than public stats. Ultimately, we're not running a league in which we need to separate people based on some sort of skill. We're hosting a server with a main emphasis on community. While I agree with Ikaru that we can have it, and that in some ways we do; we're still community first, or at least that is how it seems.

My thoughts, I guess. Scattered maybe because I left twice due to outside influence while writing this >>'

[Guest]

It's the people not the server.

The way they act is the way the server gets defined.

Not everyone's going to be competitively hungry and tournament hungry to really want different tiers. These guys battle OU because they're used to OU most of the time because of the League.

lolfirsttimeistickupforyouguys

If these guys don't really feel the need to change, the change shouldn't be forced upon them, and yes. There are people who do fight in more than one tier, I have seen it, they do exist. It is hard not to fight OU.

League is this place's spirit.

Not tournaments.

If you want to force change, go ahead.

It'll bounce in your face.

My opinion.

[renowner]

I personally like the way reborn runs things here, I for one, don't much care about points, and what would really be the point of keeping track of tournament wins? If you care enough, you can keep track yourself, and some people do. And I for one alwayse congratulate people on tournament victories, usually either with "kudos, blank!" or, "congratulations blank!" I think sportsmanship is somthing that makes it more fun for everyone.

The main point of the reborn server, at least i think so, is for the reborn league itself, more so then competative laddering anyway. If you quote PO, why not just go there, if you feel this server is slow or flawed? The timed tournaments I feel go both ways, in a server like reborn where a lot of people aren't alwayse there, timers can help if you have a low amount of people, and sometimes the opposite can occur, back in PBC, i've seen a 10 person tourny start up wtih 6 other people complaining they didn't get to go in. So honestly, I don't find it flawed so much as differant, both styles have their strong points, and failings.

(Edit: LOVE THESE FORUMS, why not turns into wynaut, thats wonderfull!)

Edited June 15, 2012 by renowner

[Swimming95]

Granted basically everything I have to say has been said already but I would still like to get in my two cents.

First and foremost is that we aren't first and foremost a battling community. It isn't battles that a lot of the users come to reborn for and that is definitely evident in the lack of laddering. The excitement comes from talking to the other users and interacting with them.

In terms of time-based tournaments, there are a lot of pros and cons associated with any type of way to do the brackets. With time based, whoever wants to join the tournament can and numbers are figured out second. It can allow for quicker tournaments and in some ways more flexible ones with the lower tiers (ie you don't need to know the exact amount of interest). With prebracketed tournies, they go stale very quickly, the sign-up process can be very drawn out and in the lower tiers, nothing really happens as you are stuck waiting for 1 more person to join mostly. We do have the opportunity to do both here and it will be fun to experiment with them.

To address Ame and Batl... records is already coded so its just a matter of implementing it and if you would like a /tourrankings command that works similarly but just tournies, I can definitely work on that. Though batl, you can also do /records USER to look at someone else's

In terms of missing a few tiers, that I completely agree with and also hope that we can change that soon and it will definitely bring a lot more to our already awesome metagame.

[Godot]

... why not wynaut ... OMG!

[Valkyria]

Answers to common rebuttals below:

1. Reborn is a community server, not a laddering/tournament server!

Let's prove it. If Reborn is a community server with greater camaraderie between players than Smogon and PO, then there shouldn't be complete silence after someone wins a tournament. Your assertions don't match with observed behavior.

2. Both timed and quota based tournaments have their pros and cons.

Yeah of course. My argument is that the net benefits of quota based tournaments outweigh time based tournaments. By refusing to test quota based tournaments, we are throwing these benefits away.

3. Reborn tiers are different and we're proud of this!

I cannot believe someone actually has the audacity to bring this up. Can any of you explain why A REBORN MOD was telling players in the main chat to follow PO and Smogon tiers? He didn't stop there, but decided to go one step further in the opposite direction by condemning players who used Abilities/Moves/Pokemon allowed by Reborn but not by other servers. In his own words, although not technically against the rules "it's something you're just not supposed to do." This belief wasn't isolated to this one mod either. Other players jumped to support him on the sole basis that he was a mod, telling those who disagreed to "shut up or be kicked." So Reborners are proud of their tiers? Yeah. Fucking. Right.

Unrelated to any of the previous points, I'd like to point out nobody has stated how implementing these changes will make Reborn less of a community. Congratulating players after a tournament win and battling in new tiers will only serve to increase the cohesion between our members.

[Amethyst]

Who did that and when, Valk?

[Ikaru]

Doing the same thing I did above.

Answers to common rebuttals below:

1. Reborn is a community server, not a laddering/tournament server!

Let's prove it. If Reborn is a community server with greater camaraderie between players than Smogon and PO, then there shouldn't be complete silence after someone wins a tournament. Your assertions don't match with observed behavior.

I think what they meant was that tournaments aren't a huge deal here so nobody reacts much to them? But still, I retain what I said above; this should be worked on.

2. Both timed and quota based tournaments have their pros and cons.

Yeah of course. My argument is that the net benefits of quota based tournaments outweigh time based tournaments. By refusing to test quota based tournaments, we are throwing these benefits away.

...I'm not sure if you've noticed but we (as in, both owners) kind of said that this was a thing we were going to try again...

3. Reborn tiers are different and we're proud of this!

I cannot believe someone actually has the audacity to bring this up. Can any of you explain why A REBORN MOD was telling players in the main chat to follow PO and Smogon tiers? He didn't stop there, but decided to go one step further in the opposite direction by condemning players who used Abilities/Moves/Pokemon allowed by Reborn but not by other servers. In his own words, although not technically against the rules "it's something you're just not supposed to do." This belief wasn't isolated to this one mod either. Other players jumped to support him on the sole basis that he was a mod, telling those who disagreed to "shut up or be kicked." So Reborners are proud of their tiers? Yeah. Fucking. Right.

I'm with Ame on this one, completely unaware it even happened. This is pretty unacceptable, so, um, yeah. Would love to explain if I knew anything about it. Regardless, that's not right at all, much less people supporting them just because mod. Were the ones supporting them regulars, or those guys who come in just to say our tiers are whack and then leave? Because I can't imagine any of us saying this... O.o

Unrelated to any of the previous points, I'd like to point out nobody has stated how implementing these changes will make Reborn less of a community. Congratulating players after a tournament win and battling in new tiers will only serve to increase the cohesion between our members.

[Valkyria]

Yes, I'm sincerely appreciative of the thought you're putting into tournament adjustments. That portion of my post was addressed to others.

As for the rogue mod, I'll provide more context.

I had just won beaten an Ubers team with a NU team. On my NU team was an Octillery with Moody and a Clefairy with Minimize. After the battle, my opponent stated in the main chat that Moody and Evasion are banned, those who use them have no skill. I responded with, "No, moody isn't banned, and if you think otherwise, show me where it says so."

Obviously he couldn't, but another player intervened at this point and said that I still shouldn't include Moody and Evasion on my teams because it "takes the fun of battling" as well as being "unethical". The hell? I responded that if he wants to hold himself to invisible standards, fine, but he has no business restricting others to the same guidelines. I posted http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1867&hl=moody&fromsearch=1 in the main chat and told him to do a Control+F on "Moody".

That would have been the end of it, except Kiozo told the chat that "although no such rule exists, it's still something that you're just not supposed to do." Multiple other players began spamming ^, referring to Kiozo's message. I asked Kiozo to show me where it says we're not supposed to use Moody, and he responded by telling me to respect authority. Um, no. There is no such thing as someone above criticism, especially when all the evidence is against you. All other points made by Kiozo were ad hominem attacks, the last resort of one cornered by logic. If you use Moody, it reflects badly on your character; you're arrogant, selfish, and in lack of discipline.

This is how much we love our tiers.

Sure I forgive, but I never forget.

[Amethyst]

I think I remember this actually. My memory is blonde less than perfect but if I recall correctly... Kiozo talked to me after this incident asking for clarification. We used to have a ban on Moody, but had since removed it after the recent tier discussion. However, I failed to adequately notate to removal of Moody's ban on the list of the tier changes, and accordingly, Kiozo was confused about its current status in Reborn's tiers. He understood that it had been banned, and since it was not listed as being unbanned, that it was a fault of the tier listing and it should have still been considered invalid.

I do, however, think it's a far cry to call what happened him telling people to use other servers tiers here, when it was just the enforcement of our outdated tiers.

[Valkyria]

Showed him http://www.pokemonreborn.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1867&hl=moody&fromsearch=1 with Control+F on Moody. Don't see how the meaning of that post could possibly have been misconstrued. For whatever reason, if he didn't comprehend it, there's still no justification for going to the lengths he did.

[Mczipo]

So from what I read, this topic is supposed to be about Reborn not having Spirit, but what I'm seeing mostly being discussed is tiers and things like that. You don't need tiers or anything like that to have spirit on Reborn. Reborn is already filled with spirited people, but you're focusing right now on spirit of battling. Many people on reborn didn't come here to battle, they came here just to talk to people or just liked the community and decided to stay. Besides, many people don't really even like battling in the first place, but I'm getting off topic. You say that people don't congratulate others after a victory in a tournament or something like that. Although, I see it all the time from other people. I see the winning message and a person immediately afterwords congratulating them, and the person who won thanks them. As for the other things, everybody else have pretty much said what needs to be said and I don't like beating a dead horse or commenting in general.

1. Reborn isn't primarily a laddering server (as has been stated previously). Most people just come here to hang out or talk with others, and if they're in the mood then they battle. I came here around half a year or more, so I don't consider myself an expert on reborn. From what I've heard it used to just be a group of people who knew each other and liked joking around with each other. Reborn gained popularity from its League which, while it is centered around battling, is mainly about the challenge and isn't in itself, laddering. If you see league matches, you see people cheering for one another and have congratulations after a victory, or some sort of "You'll get _____ next time!" There's always encouragement or "Spirit."

2. Timed and quota tournaments are both fine in their own respects. With quota the match won't start until a certain amount of participants, and timed can have an unlimited number of participants. Either way you still have people being left out because A. they missed the tourney because of time reasons, or B. People signed up before them and there were no spots left. So I guess, a way to solve this is make a quota tourney, and once the amount of joins have died down, just set the tournament amount down to the number of participants so it can start.

3. Tiers- what do I have to say about this. Everybody has their own opinions so deal with it. People will always have different ideas when concerning tiers and people will usually always have a problem with them. Although, most problems have an answer and can be justified. Reborn tiers are different from most concerning that other tiers usually just use the Smogon tiers. Reborn pretty much allows everything which is fine in my book because everything has a check or a balance. What we're stepping into here is going off course from the original idea though Spirit.

4. Tournament wins- Sure I guess this is a cool idea, but to me this sounds like it's used more for Bragging. Bragging defeats the soul purpose you strive for which is Spirit. When you brag, you put someone else in low spirits which is not what you want. Honestly, it's an idea I don't really have a problem with, but don't find it necessary.

Honestly, from what I've seen, you've moved your focus away from spirit and more towards the structure of tournaments, etc. itself. But who am I to judge what others think. Will what you think, and think what you will, that's your opinion.

[anethia]

If you think our tiers are "dumb as shit" because we leave Chandelure, Moody, Drizzle/Swift Swim, etc in OU,

Valk, I think you misread it. Moody's in OU. You said you were using a NU team, weren't you not?

[Valkyria]

McZipo, gonna have to ask where you're getting the statistic that most people "don't even like battling." Your first and second points have already been addressed by post 14. You're agreeing with me on the third point. For the fourth point, indicate where I mentioned anything about bragging rights.

Most importantly, how will implementing these changes make Reborn less of a community?

[anethia]

It won't make it less of a community..

It's just.. Reborn won't actually feel the same way.. I like Reborn the way it is. A non-battle-serious community

[Mczipo]

I'm stating my opinion on the matters, it doesn't matter who I agree with or not. While I did say that people didn't even like battling, I said that most people came here to hang out and talk which many of them do. I proceeded to say after that, that if they were in the mood they battle, which people also do. For the fourth point, I didn't say at all that you talked about bragging rights. Although, people brag all the time. I'm just saying what might happen as a result. You're also shying away from your original idea of Spirit. You changed to community which might change. The thing is, people don't like change. People like things they are used to, and that's a fact. If you change what the server is, then some of the community might leave, which would change the community.

[Valkyria]

That's what makes this so unusual Shirinui. Tiers were never mentioned. The mod made a blanket statement that self-respecting players just shouldn't use Moody. If he holds that view himself, whatever, but the instant he tries to push others to believe the same, he's stepping out of line. Oh, and Moody is perfectly acceptable in NU. If you disagree, show me where it says otherwise. All rules have a basis in writing.

If you truly feel that implementing these changes will somehow altar Reborn's seriousness, then alright. It's the if-its-not-broken-dont-fix it perspective and I completely respect that.