Is some content a taboo in Pokemon fangames?

[Zargerth]

We have some fangames showing us the more questionable side of human interaction. There's murder, suicide and religious madmen. In this sense, several fangames are re-defining the concept of Pokemon games. I would hear your thoughts on if there should be a limit on what can be shown or handled in a Pokemon fangame. Are there things you would consider tacky, or even a taboo of sorts -issues that shouldn't be even touched upon?

[Sceptilespy]

Idk honestly. I guess don't bring up controversial topics, don't try to force your opinion in the writing of the game to force it down the player's throat, and as far as I'm concerned, don't be dumb, and you'll be alright.

[Animefan666]

Considering that the official Pokemon games have been designed to be child friendly from the start I think it's about time fan-games have branched out from the norm. Many people who have been loyal to the franchise from the start aren't naive, fearful children anymore and I think we can take a little violence in a fan-game. That being the case, I still think there's a line somewhere that will probably not be crossed any time soon.

[Dreamy]

3 hours ago, Zargerth said:

We have some fangames showing us the more questionable side of human interaction. There's murder, suicide and religious madmen. In this sense, several fangames are re-defining the concept of Pokemon games. I would hear your thoughts on if there should be a limit on what can be shown or handled in a Pokemon fangame. Are there things you would consider tacky, or even a taboo of sorts -issues that shouldn't be even touched upon?

 

I think any material can be "tacky" If approached wrong by the creator(s)

and I feel like if a game goes too far or approaches something badly, people won't like/play it and that will often pretty much sort itself out.

 

That said, I'd guess that many people would probably be more likely to disapprove of more... sexually themed content in something like a pokemon fangame

[mde2001]

I don't think pokemon is the appropriate medium to discuss issues surrounding sexual assault or pedophilia in particular. It is too sensitive and personal an issue for some people, and it should be treated seriously. A game full of cutesy animated creatures would delegitimise the suffering of these people and it would almost certainly be handled poorly. While these things may have a place to be discussed in games, although probably not ones I would want to play, I feel like pokemon is an inappropriate medium for it. 

[Tartar]

15 minutes ago, mde2001 said:

I don't think pokemon is the appropriate medium to discuss issues surrounding sexual assault or pedophilia in particular. It is too sensitive and personal an issue for some people, and it should be treated seriously. A game full of cutesy animated creatures would delegitimise the suffering of these people and it would almost certainly be handled poorly. While these things may have a place to be discussed in games, although probably not ones I would want to play, I feel like pokemon is an inappropriate medium for it. 

3

Again, I feel like any medium can be used to tackle any sorts of themes and topics if used correctly. Even Pokémon can be used to teach heavy-handed themes. 

Those particular issues you mentioned have been a criticized for being tackled poorly across everything from film to books, and what may be the biggest thing preventing them from being discussed more openly is that it's not really a topic most people know enough about to discuss it, much less write about it. Secondly, it's not something most people want to read/play through in a medium they want to use as recreation. 

 

But that isn't to say Pokémon can't be used to discuss such themes, perhaps not directly but through Aesop and analogy, it may be possible. In the end, any medium can be used to tackle any given theme, it's just a question if the creator is good enough at using the medium to discuss the theme properly. 

But I do agree with the fact that, I'd rather not want to see themes of sexuality in Pokémon games due to how likely the chance of the writer of the games handling those poorly, and having said themes drag down what would otherwise perhaps have been a good game. 

[Commander]

If we look at Pokemon as a whole, they have implemented some very dark and mature themes in all the official games. The only one that can be debated is suicide since well it depends how you interpret Grovyle's decision to change the future (ie disappearing from existence for a better future and even the pc agrees to do the same). There was even a church in Gen IV. Often forgotten about, but worshiping Arceus is a thing (as well as shrines to certain legends).

 

The only true line is explicit content which really grinds down to your audience. Society doesn't want minors to see certain things for good reason. The rest really grinds down to the writer and how they want to handle something and whether they should include it. You can ask any writer and they will all tell you different things you should and shouldn't do when it comes to creating stuff.

[Dante52]

Whoo, great discussion! 

 

I personally love the new stories and themes coming up in fan-games. As an example, I love how the bad guys (and sometimes the good guys) use their pokemon to actually attack other people. Because that's exactly what would happen if some "villain" had a super powered dragon. I think it would be awesome if these new, more realistic themes continue to expand. I myself have toyed with certain ideas, like a Pokemon game that happens on a college campus where a disease breaks loose from the Microbiology department and so the campus is shut down. (as a super random example). I think it's really fun to ask ourselves what this story would be like if Pokemon existed and were part of the experience (ie people on campus all own some pokemon, quarantine workers using pokemon to keep people in the quarantine zone, different majors tending to own different types (like engineers = steel && electric, etc). 

 

Now, with all that said, I think that serious, sensitive themes should definitely be handled appropriately. I largely agree that any medium can hypothetically be used to address any issue, but doing it well and tastefully largely depends on the experiences and skills of the creators. If they don't have the skills to handle the themes, then I think it would probably be best to stay away from it. 

 

[Zargerth]

I see there's (at least) one theme that divides opinions. Those of you who think it can be handled in a Pokemon (fan)game, how would you handle it? Maybe through character dialogue, presented as a puzzle where the player puts the pieces together? I don't know what Ame had in mind, but I would like to remind that in Reborn it's hinted that Luna has suffered some form of abuse.

On 8.4.2017 at 7:16 AM, mde2001 said:

I don't think pokemon is the appropriate medium to discuss issues surrounding sexual assault or pedophilia in particular. It is too sensitive and personal an issue for some people, and it should be treated seriously. A game full of cutesy animated creatures would delegitimise the suffering of these people and it would almost certainly be handled poorly. While these things may have a place to be discussed in games, although probably not ones I would want to play, I feel like pokemon is an inappropriate medium for it. 

Is (witnessing) a suicide not an sensitive issue, or is it that it's, at the end of the day, less painful experience?

 

On 8.4.2017 at 9:33 AM, GS BALL said:

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That about "murder, suicide and religious madmen" OP says, probably is a reference to Pokemon Insurgence...? That game feels good, we should give it a try! It doesn't feel dark or creepy, though, feels and plays like your regular, typical, old NES/SNES JRPG. Nothing extreme to see there, upsetting, or worse.

It's a reference to Pokemon Insurgence as well, at the same time it's a reference to many other Pokemon fangames. Think about Rejuvenation for a moment - if you have played it, that is.

 

On 8.4.2017 at 10:12 AM, Commander said:

If we look at Pokemon as a whole, they have implemented some very dark and mature themes in all the official games. The only one that can be debated is suicide since well it depends how you interpret Grovyle's decision to change the future (ie disappearing from existence for a better future and even the pc agrees to do the same). There was even a church in Gen IV. Often forgotten about, but worshiping Arceus is a thing (as well as shrines to certain legends).

 

The only true line is explicit content which really grinds down to your audience. Society doesn't want minors to see certain things for good reason. The rest really grinds down to the writer and how they want to handle something and whether they should include it. You can ask any writer and they will all tell you different things you should and shouldn't do when it comes to creating stuff.

This is actually a good point. In a sense, many of the Teams in the official Pokemon games are also dark. The difference here seems to be how a certain theme is approached. In Reborn, for example, we see a graphic (as graphic as it can get with these graphics) yet realistic approach to suicide. On a side note, iirc there's self sacrifice in Dark Rising too. 

 

I would like to point out I'm not against the design choices made in Pokemon fangames. I'm just wondering if there's content that is - or if it was there, would be - in the game just for the sake of shock value, or does it have a storytelling purpose?

[Froiky]

Two things I don't want in a fan game. 

First, don't attack real groups of people. If it's not acceptable to discriminate against someone in real life then it's not okay to make the game attack these people exclusively. This doesn't mean that controversy can't be added but that selective discrimination is unwanted.

Second, don't force an opinion into the game as its main "moral". It's really annoying when an entertaining medium is used to push an agenda rather than for the entertainment value. 

[Tartar]

2 hours ago, Froiky said:

Second, don't force an opinion into the game as its main "moral". It's really annoying when an entertaining medium is used to push an agenda rather than for the entertainment value. 

Pardon me, but I can't actually agree with this part. 

Every single piece of literature, movie, game... Everything is political in nature and pushes for certain agendas, whether actively or not. 

Reborn too is heavily political and rooted in contemporary political issues of terrorism, environmentalism and numerous other social issues, and actively portrays certain ways of thinking and acting as being morally right and others wrong.  

 

This isn't a bad thing, most of the greatest works of humanity have pushed agendas that either promoted or rejected the status quo. And that is how it should be, games like everything else are a tool to spread ideas, and not merely meaningless entertainment. It's exactly because all the heavy themes of Reborn that it's such a worthwhile game as compared to many other Pokémon Fangames, which are "meaningless entertainment". But works like Reborn go above and beyond to try to spread awareness and push for change. Something that is important and needed in every day and age. 

[ShadeStrider]

Just as long as you don't make a fangame as messed up as "The Pokemon Story" and tackle mature themes in a mature way, you should be fine.

[Zargerth]

7 hours ago, ShadeStrider said:

Just as long as you don't make a fangame as messed up as "The Pokemon Story" and tackle mature themes in a mature way, you should be fine.

 

I had to look up this "The Pokemon Story" as I had never heard of it. The few minutes of research I spent on this subject lead me to conclusion of agreeing with you.