Hey guys....could I get some advice, maybe?

[chuckles]

I know I haven't been around much for a while (actually I haven't even been able to connect to the Showdown server since getting this new laptop like 2 months ago) but I intend only praise when I say this has always been an odd bunch. I had some of my best and most enjoyable conversations with people here, and there seem to be people with every quirk and mentality imaginable. When my social life was nonexistent for a long time, I don't know what I would have done if not for my experience with everyone here. I just want to highlight that. Get ready for TL;DR stuff though.

 

Now...I'm here asking for help regarding things I don't, or didn't really, understand. I may have ruined something wonderful as a result. You see, about a week ago my girlfriend of just over a year confronted me in anger, telling me I'd become too obsessive, giving off too much attention and affection, that I smothered her, and that she couldn't take it anymore. She also said she still likes me but that she doesn't want that physicality or that amount of attention. She sort of stormed off after this, and over the next few days, as we and a large group had planned a trip to Anime Boston together, I saw her and she was friendly and there wasn't any animosity, but we barely talked, and it was mostly impersonal. I didn't try to push to talk to her about it, but even without closure or anything official, I don't think she considers us to be together anymore. So, as we actually don't go to the same school anymore, even though we have all the same friends, I'm just giving her space and leaving her alone for now, with no contact since Tuesday. Also, this is my first real relationship, aside from short-lived meaningless stuff in high school. We were close friends for a couple months before dating actually, and we formed a real bond, and wanted to get together mutually. Now, those who have known me here for years know me to be extremely poor with communication, and that I often don't really understand people. So, I'd like to lay some things out:

 

-Over the past few months she became increasingly busy and stressed over school and a new part time job she started as well, so I got the idea, mostly from other relationships and things I had observed, to be super attentive and praising to an exaggerated extent, thinking that would help her and boost her self esteem. I don't think I came across that way, and I'm sure it actually backfired, as I just ended up seeming increasingly obsessive toward her. In about two months I sort of caught myself in a cycle of "I'm not getting a very positive response so I must not be doing/being/looking good enough." From what she said and what I'm seeing more clearly now, I think she wanted the opposite, and I was infringing upon her independence. She did try to communicate this to me, but it was subtle, and a little vague, and I just didn't get it at the time.

 

-Regarding affection/sexuality, for ~7-8 months of the relationship she was very affectionate and physical on a consistent basis, but she rarely (not never) initiated any of it, although she definitely enjoyed it often. After that point, this seemed to die down as she became more busy, but even when we had plenty of time together, it rapidly went from a total willingness for basically anything to an apparent disdain for even cuddling or kissing. What was once enthusiasm seemed to be general weariness from her. So I...blamed myself. I was convinced that I had somehow become inadequate for her, that my apparent inability to excite her in a physical sense was through some issue of boredom or disinterest. From my perspective, there was a significant change there, and from what I was taught growing as well as what I think society in general told me, I was sure that a lack of physicality must itself be a problem and that there was some unknown issue or inadequacy that caused this. So I became more insecure and my confidence went into a nosedive, trying to wrap my head around this thinking I had to somehow fix it. She told me it wasn't any problem with me, that she just didn't want/need that physical aspect with me much anymore, and....I was sure she was just placating me. I think I was blinded by this mindset that a relationship either can't exist or can't be happy without regular affection. I don't believe that now, but I suppose that's what I was raised to believe.

 

-Here's why I really wanted to ask you guys about this: soon after this she started talking about being 'asexual' and later 'gray-asexual' and I didn't understand what she meant or how that could be accurate, as I thought a person couldn't enjoy/seek/appreciate sexuality if they were asexual. She sort of tried to explain that as well, and I am sure I misunderstood. I figured she might have had some sort of fear of intimacy that I could, well, change. That pushing against it and reinforcing her self esteem and value was the solution. So I had been trying to talk to her a lot about all these different things, special circumstances and stuff, in an attempt to, well, spice things up so to speak. I thought that was what I needed to do, that this was the problem. Now, in mid-February, I had just found out I was probably going to fail out of my major (which I did despite my best efforts) and I didn't really talk about it to her/anyone but I was really on edge and kinda felt worthless. Around this time, we went with a group to a mall, and she wanted to go window shopping and I sort of insisted on going with her. She said I didn't need to (which probably meant "I don't want you to") but I went along anyway. We ended up, along with two of our mutual friends, in a shop called Spencer's I had never been to before. I bet some of you know where this is going. So, we walked in and along this back wall were all these crazy products and things for somehow improving sexual satisfaction I guess (I was unfamiliar with all things except the fact that certain objects existed) and I was bewildered and uncomfortable, and she seemed so as well....but she started talking about them, and she seemed to take a real interest in certain things. She then told me not to ask/talk about it. This upset and confused me, because I didn't understand the idea that she could want anything for herself if she, well, didn't want much from me. So I started, right then and there, to try to talk to her about what I needed to get for us, about all these products and things that would help her. She...became flustered and walked out of the shop as I was still trying to ask her what I should get. This situation sort of convinced me more that I was inadequate and that she just didn't want to tell me so, and I became somewhat bitter over it. Yet, I was guilty at having pissed her off (we had never really been angry with each other in this sense) and she basically avoided me until we left the mall. As she does when she is upset, when I tried to apologize the next day over text she said that she didn't want to talk about what happened. So I waited a few days, I showed up at my old/her current school (as I have been doing at least once a week for the past year) and asked, but probably really pushed, to talk about what happened and to understand. She...didn't say much, I felt as if I was just talking and apologizing and trying to vent myself. I asked her opinions and she was vague. She said I shouldn't have pushed it, that I went too far with texting/calling all the time, and I asked her in a vague sense as well to give me more answers generally as I had been confused over a great deal. So I pulled back a bit on that side of communication and stopped asking those questions.....but I didn't try to change my mindset at all. I didn't understand what she meant or wanted, I suppose. Sorry, I became sidetracked a bit. The thing is, I still persistently went to the school and gave her loads of attention and tried to be around her and ask for affection all the time when I was there. I wasn't getting positive responses but she wasn't very negative either, and I couldn't seem to figure out what I needed to do, so this sort of persisted for a few weeks and I became more insecure and bitter as I tried to give her what I basically thought a 'good boyfriend' would in this situation. So I ended up making a problem out of everything, effectively. I was trying to spend more time with her when she really didn't have much time to spend, and I wasn't very accepting of that, thinking "If I did this or if I did more and said more nice things she'll be more inclined to make time" even when realistically she wasn't going to be able to anyway. This reached a fever pitch the day before we were going to Boston when I found out that on one of the few days she would normally have some time, but she said she couldn't do anything because she had to go home to pack and finish a cosplay she hadn't finished yet, she...ended up going out and spending the whole evening/night with some of our friends, never saying anything to me. I only found out because our whole group has a chat where we talk about all sorts of stuff, and they sent pictures of all of them hanging out. So I took that as a personal jab and asked her about it only to get nonchalant responses about it being spontaneous. Then I basically blew up her phone about how confused and upset I had been and how I didn't understand why she would do that if she had told me she would be busy. I wasn't spiteful or hurtful to her, not ever, but it was emotional and overblown. 

 

-So then, I found out later that the morning of the day we would leave for Boston, last Thursday, she talked to a friend of ours and said I had been too obsessive and controlling and that she'd probably have to break up with me for it if I didn't pull back a lot. A few hours later I showed up and I was still bitter so I basically demanded to talk privately with her after hovering around for a while, and she quickly just turned it around to say she couldn't handle how I'd behaved recently, that I put her on an unrealistic and exaggerated pedestal (which I did, only because I thought it would help), and that I'd pushed too much for those physical affections, that she didn't want that and therefore we didn't want the same things. The trouble is....I didn't care so much about that physical side of things, but what I thought it represented, which is a healthy, positive relationship, in an objective sense. I'd had people observe us and ask me or tell me about how important that stuff had to be. So in reflecting on what she had said, I've come to recognize that I was wrong about her. She really was, or became, 'gray-ace' and nothing I could do or say would change that either. I very recently tried to do some research into that as well and found some info basically telling me that it's just something to accept and that it's not personal. Also it turns out I'm demisexual and somewhat gray myself. So maybe she was placating me by being more physical than she would have wanted to, anyway, and I didn't see that, but if I'd really understood that it wasn't some fault of mine, I wouldn't mind it.

 

-Well, it seems that, by doing these things and maybe trying to be more normal, in my confusion and insecurity, I gave off the impression that I can't be happy without constant physical touch/affection (I know I can but I thought a lack of it represented a problem, regardless of what I wanted) and that I can't reign myself in to not give her all that attention and praise. Yet, I was stressing myself out trying to give that to her; it wasn't what I wanted, I just thought it was a good idea. So, I know these things with sincerity, but she.....most likely doesn't, and wouldn't figure it out on her own, just as I probably wouldn't have understood this stuff without being given that sort of wake up call. It's a mess of miscommunication and misunderstandings, and I really don't want to lose this or end up with her seeing me in this light forever, especially over issues that seem very.....salvageable. I don't know what she has been thinking for the past week. I don't think she'll talk to our friends about this (and I probably talked to them way too much right after it happened) but I still need a clearer understanding of what it means to be under that asexual umbrella, what her perspective might be, and what I can say/do to try to make things right between us. The guilt's eating away at me, and it's tough not to just try calling her to explain and apologize. I can't figure out how long to wait, either.

 

~Most of our friends just say she's mysterious and that they don't understand her. Even with a group of anime nerds, she's an oddball, so to speak. I know she doesn't want to hate me and that nobody's taking sides or anything because it's not spiteful or vicious. I suppose most of this was venting too, but I'd like some advice from the most wonderfully weird mishmash of nerds I've ever encountered, which is the Reborn community. I'd bet good money some here share that orientation and some of these traits as well. Sorry for the walls of text guys, I just hope you'll read it and maybe some of you can make sense of this.

[NatJones]

Firstly, I really hope you're okay! it seems to me you're genuinely hurt over it, and in all honesty I would be too. Now if this comes across as b*tchy I do apologise, but I think she should have opened up to you, and tried to speak to you, instead she chose to let it fester and as such it resulted in a big blow up.

 

I can't offer any advice on the asexuality side of things I'm sorry. But as to the other aspects, I think if she needs space then respect it, ask her if it is what she truly wants (in my opinion) and take things from there, maybe start dating again, the casual cinema trip here or food there. That's alls I can think of saying I'm sorry

 

If you just wanna rant away though, feel free to PM me, I've gone through some awful rough patches with my fiancé due to my conditions and whilst its not the same, it again all comes down to communication, so I can empathise to an extent, I really hope it all works out for you x

[Arkhi]

I'm afraid I'm not as well-versed in asexuality, so I cannot offer advice on that front. It does sound like you have been treading with caution and care with many of the steps towards reparation you've made, and that's definitely a noteworthy point. For your partner's sake, it is fortunate that you have outreached so much and extended helping hands, though it seems as if that is not what she would like. Perhaps the affection that you see yourself giving is mistaken for coddling in her eyes, which builds up pressure in her. It really does sound as if you're taking many essential measures to salvage the relationship, and I hope that you both may see that. While you have mentioned some points of anger where you have exploded (though maybe a less powerful word would work here better), you seem to be considering her emotions and thoughts. As NatJones said above, communication is key. I hope that she is contributing as much effort as you are to repair these issues. If she is not, then it is a possibility that she does not intend to put forth the same constructive energy into this relationship. It may be that, or perhaps that she is still under great stress and simply cannot put forth that energy right now. Both of these problems have solutions, I'm sure, though I cannot confidently vouch for any, I've never thought this far ahead.

 

I'm hopeful that collecting your thoughts and running this situation by others here will result in beneficial solutions and I wish you the very best.

[chuckles]

Thanks so much for the support guys, I do feel better talking about it at least. There was always a communication issue, I realize. She had a tendency to say everything was 'fine' even when it wasn't which is almost a gender stereotype perhaps, but she was so vague about these things I was often unsure what could really be okay and what was an actual problem. I think her method of dealing with things is generally to bottle it up and not talk to anybody about it, which is certainly the reverse of me. I'm almost positive she still hasn't talked to any of our friends about what happened, at least not in depth. I never really wanted to tell her 'hey what the hell do you mean/want/feel' because I felt like an ass for not interpreting it on my own. 

 

Well, I'm determined to remedy this but I'm not sure she is right now, because of the impression she's had of me for some time. I'm still not sure how much space to give, for how long, but I doubt she'll just find somebody else anytime soon, at least. It's really tough not to just go and explain these things to her, anyway.

 

I am really hoping somebody well-versed in that sort of asexuality umbrella can shed more light on this as well.

Edited April 10, 2017 by chuckles

[HongaarseBeer]

Now, I'm also not informed when it comes to asexuality but I do know that talking can be very difficult, no matter what gender/sexuality. I can relate to your partner on this aspect, as I also have this issue when being in a relationship. I tend to keep feelings and problems to myself and just don't like opening up on them. Even though communication is key, like NatJones and Arkhi have already mentioned, I think you should go slow on engaging conversations about problems she has. It could feel to her like you're pushing too much very quickly, even though you think you aren't. Maybe you could try to just take it easy with each other for a while, so you can both focus on yourselves. This could free your minds. Then have a chat with her in a coffee house or another neutral place and start from the beginning.

 

If she is struggling with her sexuality, I think you should let her discover herself (and so should you for yourself). One of the reasons for her behaviour could be that she's suffering from an internal conflict. If that's the case (and I don't mean to scare you here), she will probably eventually open up to you if she really loves you. 

[chuckles]

I didn't even know a person who isn't hungry could want food. Huh. Yeah, we never had set boundaries. It was all vague and cloudy I suppose. Keep in mind she never had 0 interest in these things though, it just died down to a point of being incredibly rare. I kept thinking there was some rhyme or reason to that as well, perhaps that I could do/say something to get her more interested. Wow, that's a bit manipulative though, isn't it? I hadn't really reflected on that.

 

Also, that 'change' mentality was mostly based on the fact that it had been so different for at least the first 6 months.

 

I would like to mention some things that led me to beliefs regarding fear of intimacy and self consciousness, because maybe somebody can shed light on that anyway:

-Despite being thin and generally considered very attractive by people around her, under no circumstances would she own/wear a two piece bathing suit, preferring a sort of skirt thing for her bottoms.

-Even when she was fine being sexual and naked, she always wanted to be fully clothed around me when not doing anything sexual, and would generally demand I look away or leave the room whether she was putting clothes on or just changing them. 

-Sometimes if I said something about her looking nice, especially in the morning or when she didn't have makeup on, she was argumentative, even demanding that she must look terrible.

-She would often suddenly change her mind regarding sexuality but especially just affection, telling me she didn't want anything and quickly being very affectionate on her own anyway. 

-She really enjoyed erotic fan-fictions and manga, as well as japanese romantic women-oriented reverse harem dating games, yet never seemed to want to mimic or act out anything, despite occasionally obsessing over some characters.

 

See, frankly, all of this stuff was confusing to me. At least, from my perspective, with no judgement, these led me to believe that she was sort of repressing some desires/feelings, and that she had terrible self esteem regarding her body and looks. I surely misinterpreted this stuff, but I don't know what else it would mean, either.

Edited April 10, 2017 by chuckles

[Maelstrom]

I feel like at some parts you have the traditional gender roles swapped. You always wanna talk things out and explore feelings and fix them together while she wants to just drop it and forget it. You gotta try to worry about it less and give her some space. She's clearly confused about some things and your trying to get her to confront it and fix it right away instead of at her own pace really isn't working here. Being clingy sends the wrong impression and usually pushes people away. Or she might be regretting the relationship and your over-attentiveness is making it harder for her to come to terms with it. One thing I remember a bit from human sexuality class is that the over-attentiveness is a strategy to pressure a partner into keeping them when one senses that they might be getting the axe. I'm not sure that's the case here but putting them on a pedestal like that is often a major turn off for women from what I've seen and experienced. You wanna be the loyal dog, but what she might really want is a cat- someone assured of and in themselves, the cat's poise and independence, with a more sporadic affectionate side that may need to be teased out. She's an important part of your world, but don't burden her with the feeling that she holds your world on her shoulders.

 

I know you want to work out your concerns with her, but to me it seems it would be better to vent and plan with outside influences rather than force her to confront things she doesn't feel comfortable talking about. She has her own way of dealing right now and you might need to adjust yours. You should give real thought to ending the relationship if you can't avoid making snap, emotional responses. You two might not be that emotionally compatible.

 

Spencer's though, is all about them half-serious sexual gag gifts from what I remember. I haven't seen one in ages though.

 

Question- Has she been in any other relationships? If so, do you think she was ever as intimate with them? I kinda get the feeling that you might be her first major relationship. I kinda get the feeling that her expectations and experience with sexuality didn't quite meet. I know it didn't for me. Definitely not all it's hyped out to be. It's great, but it didn't lead me to chase skirt the way a lot of guys around me did. Probably why I gave off the 'married guy' vibe.

[chuckles]

Yeah, I think you're right about a lot of that actually. I thought I was doing the right thing but she'd probably have been much happier if I'd stayed aloof and relaxed about everything. I saw all these other relationships and how they behave and figured I should try to mimic them somehow, but that was wrong too. 

 

I'm sure we are emotionally compatible but I lost sight of that in this confusion. She's been in a few other relationships but nothing longer than 6 months, and she had explicitly stated that she didn't enjoy or pursue sexuality with them but that it was different with me.

 

I did see that it was going downhill and I suppose partially my answer to that was to be extra attentive and praising, because I really did think it would help, but I achieved the opposite effect. The question right now really is how I can show her that I don't need or even want to be that way, and that I was just doing all this stuff for her sake. I'm certainly less insecure now than I was for the past couple of months, actually. Maybe I need to focus on rebuilding the friendship first though anyway, because I think that's been damaged as well by all this confusion.

 

I'm mainly a little worried that either she'll take the sudden space I'm giving her as coldness or disinterest, or that by giving it too much time she'll just drift away and lose interest in fixing it. I don't think she'd go out of her way to talk about it much just because she's not usually the one to initiate communication, even in a positive situation. The idea right now is to 'let the dust settle' I suppose but since I haven't said anything to her about any of this for a week and a half, I have no idea what she wants or thinks at the moment, how how long I should give it.

[Maelstrom]

Just tell her that you're gonna try giving her some more space and not to think you're being cold or anything, feel free to hit you up. If that frees up some time for you, maybe use it to scope out some new places to take her or something. Kubo's on netflix and it's a good netflix and chill option.

[chuckles]

I appreciate that and that's probably a good idea too. I'm really focused on the fact that, well, I need to somehow show her that I don't really need all the affection and stuff I was pushing for, and that it was based on my insecurity, which I'm improving.  It's weird because without the context of a relationship that might be difficult, at least in the short term. 

 

Is it a bad idea to actually ask her if she wants more space and how much, if so? I'm still not sure where we stand, as well, though I doubt she just sees me as an ex or anything. Even when things were great she didn't initiate much, I think....I'm sure she liked some attention but that I ended up going way too far with it. Rather, she likely wouldn't seek much out on her own from me or really anyone. She's more the type to take an opportunity for an activity or plan and not make effort to create one herself, especially if it involves other people.

 

Neither of us have seen Kubo though, I heard it's great. Gotta keep that in mind.

[chuckles]

I'd hope there would be more for people to say, but I realize I can't expect some perfect, clear answer.

 

Also, I saw her yesterday in a group setting and we were nice, and there was small, happy talk for a while. We weren't very personal and I never tried for an opportunity to really discuss anything significant, but I was cheerful the whole time, and relaxed, and I bet she noticed that. Maybe it's a bit late, but that's what she wanted from me a month ago. This space is what she's needed, no, what we both needed for a while as well. I still don't know how she sees me or what she wants but in another couple weeks I'll really try to talk to her and find out. I just think it's good that she could be around me in this positive setting.

[Maelstrom]

Don't push it too hard when you ask. Make it less of an interrogation by talking about how the uncertainty is making you feel. You know, sharing your viewpoint instead of only asking.

[chuckles]

Well I had a party the other day and somebody asked if they could invite her and I said 'yeah go ahead' so they asked her to come and she said she would.....but then apparently she became anxious about how it would go, and later changed her mind. Somebody told me she thinks I'm really upset with her (which is probably fair since I haven't really tried to talk to her) so I sent her a quick, short message saying I'm not upset with her, which is true. She didn't respond, but honestly it wasn't the sort of thing that warranted a response anyway. contextually.

 

I think I might just draw up a handwritten letter to her and give it to her on Tuesday instead of really talking. See, I get the idea at this point that she's very anxious around me, even if she's not really angry anymore. Even if she is willing to talk, she'd probably be worried and defensive immediately, and she might not really listen....and I'll probably fumble my words, and either of us could become emotional. A letter would remove the necessity of reaction, and I figure handing her an envelope is less anxiety-inducing than a verbal confrontation, even if it's not pushy or obsessive in nature. 

 

For the record, the letter would just be an apology/explanation regarding how I behaved, how I felt, and what I've learned. Either way, I wouldn't plead or ask to get back together, especially right now. If there's any chance of that I would first need to build back some respect and trust, surely.

 

Also, Mael, thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it. Despite the passage of time I'm certainly still driving myself up a wall here, admittedly. I don't think I'll be relieved until I can communicate with her somehow.

[Maelstrom]

It's no problem. It's something interesting to put my mind to.

 

Ha, she doesn't want you to be overbearing but when you give her some space she gets anxious cuz you aren't taking the lead like you used to? It sounds like trying to crack a safe, you gotta listen closely and feel out the right combination.

 

I feel like part of this recent situation is partly on your mutual friend. You didn't invite her directly and the friend probably neglected to say that you wanted her to come. She probably got scared off thinking you didn't want her around since she didn't get the direct invite and it would be weird for her to show up after the recent strain and misinterpreting space as being standoffish and upset.

 

The letter sounds like a good idea to me. Getting your thoughts together and hammering 'em out into words that say want you want to say, no more and no less, will indeed be an easier way of both delivering the message accurately as well as not pressuring her to come up with a suitable reply right away. Hmm, handwritten is a nice touch, but I do recommend typing out a draft first before committing it to ink.

 

And as for the delivery, I have a suggestion. Don't just hand it to her. Give it to your friend to hand it to her. But have them say something like "This is from someone who really likes you and I think you should read it." If she asks who it's from before reading it, you friend should simply say read it and she'll find out. I imagine the gist of your letter will be to the effect that you wanted to give her the time and space she seemed to need and that you haven't given up on her or your relationship with her yet. You have your own feelings and viewpoint you can share to help her understand your situation, but the bottom line is that you want to figure things out with her. I think that between your friend saying "someone who really likes you", reading it to see that it's you and you aren't upset with her but trying to support her, and the semi-mysterious build-up may hit an emotional, romantic spot. It's almost like you're asking to court her again. Which really you are. Maybe one of the ladies of reborn can chime in on how they think they'd react to a letter and setup like that.

 

 

Other than that, if you're going to go eat out or do something fun (either by yourself or with other friends as well), text her and tell her she should come along if she's free. It sends a couple of messages. One, is that you're still gonna live your life and be you, whether or not she's a part of it. You know, without her, you're still your own person. But message 2 is that you still want her to be a part of it, that you aren't avoiding her or upset. You get to play it cool but inviting, while she gets an easy out if she's still feeling anxious about things. Did you find some new place to take her? "Hey, I gonna try out this restaurant I've never been to. If you're free, wanna come with?" Going with other friends might make it feel like less pressure since it won't be a one on one situation. It won't get you the full resolution of the serious talk that you want, but you wanna re-build that comfortable feeling between the two of you again without pressure so you can get there eventually. Keep it cool and casual. Give her some honest complements and try not to over-do 'em. You're affectionate, not obsessive.

 

What do you think?

 

PS- I didn't expect it, but Kubo has a love story aspect to it that makes it pretty good for a date movie. JS.

 

 

[chuckles]

I hope the love story involves the Charlize Theron monkey...

 

 

Anyway, I think if we were younger, or maybe if we were really avoiding each other, I'd give it to a friend. However, since she's willing to talk to me at least a little, and she doesn't try to leave or even act negatively when she sees me, I'll have a good opportunity to just hand it to her. Besides, it's more personal that way I think, to say "I put a lot of thought into this and wanted to give it to you." 

 

Also, I thought about typing something up first, but then I realize it would be less....raw, per se. That I might be better off just flooding my thoughts onto a paper instead of making it organized and collected. It might come off as more real and genuine then as well, as opposed to calculated and scientific....which is generally my approach to everything, as you may know. 

I realize the written word is open to interpretation but I plan to be very clear about my misconceptions, mistakes, and recent findings. How I needed a few weeks to really reflect and change my perspective. How I'm not just looking to jump back into a relationship, since I'd want to slowly build back the trust and respect first. How I've learned a great deal and why that means I wouldn't make those mistakes again.

 

She's a very logic-minded and realistic person, by the way. So....if I just said "hey I'm sorry and I'll change and I am better" with no explanation she'd think I was just pleading and lying or something. I mean, really we hit that breaking point because she didn't think I would change, and somewhat ironically, she was right at the time because I wouldn't have changed without the break. It forced a reality check on me. I'll have to include that too.

I still feel at this point as if I...have my foot in the door, so to speak. I'm in this grey area wherein there's no animosity and we're probably both waiting to see what the other will do/say, and neither of us seem to be interested in just finding some rebound or whatever. I'm not just "some ex from way back" but I'm also not her "wonderful senpai" anymore (note: dating anime nerds is hilarious because of in-jokes) but I don't know exactly where I stand with her. She's probably wondering the same thing.

A friend actually told me recently that people had talked about me around her, and she chimed in and asked what I've been doing/up to, apparently either concerned or anxious since it's sort of unlike me to not be around for a while. I'm not quite sure how to interpret that, but I suppose I'll find out eventually. 

 

Oh right, activities....well, last year I took her to this trampoline warehouse place (the whole floor is trampolines) and we had a blast. We had talked vaguely about going back for months but never actually went. I think I'd invite her to that, later, since I know she wanted to go again. I don't think I'd bring another friend, because it's more 'safe' so to speak, but less....personal. I wouldn't put that in the letter or ask right away, but still. That, and she gave me this whole 'letterboxing' kit for christmas (wherein you take these notepads and containers with stamps out on a hike, then put instructions online for where to find something you've hidden near a trail. Usually involves riddles and complex routes. I haven't done it, but she explained it and it sounds amazing.) and it'd be a shame if we never get to use that together. Though, since a hike together is less public and more personal, I'd probably go for the trampoline place first.

 

Well, my semester ends in ~2 weeks, hers ends in ~4 weeks. Different colleges but not far from each other. So, I'm aware that she plans to just take extra hours at work over the summer and not take any classes. She lives about an hour away from me as well. Basically, I need to really be on good terms with her at least(more than this civil/somewhat friendly vibe) within a few weeks' time, or I probably wouldn't see her for the whole summer. That'd be so long that she either moves on to somebody else, permanently resents me at least enough to not seek interaction, or really misses me over time and grows fond of me. Could actually be any combination, and I've heard people "come crawling back" given enough time apart from somebody who was often great with them.....but that's not something I want to try to rely on or even think about. It seems manipulative anyway. Well, a heartfelt apology/explanation letter seems...less so.

 

 

...I'm going back on myself here but I wonder if I should ask her to talk, and if she doesn't want to, give her a letter another time. It's tricky because I'm not sure exactly how anxious she is right now, although she isn't spiteful or angry. So, if I can actually deliver my thoughts clearly and verbally, it'd probably be more effective. That, and she's always been one for face to face communication above all else. Yeah, it might push against her anxiety, but maybe a letter ought to be more of a last resort. I suppose i can't really know for sure, anyway.

Edited April 24, 2017 by chuckles

[chuckles]

Welp, dunno if I'm just venting here now or if anybody reads this, but she became anxious when I said I wanted to apologize and asked to talk for a minute. She pretty much didn't want to hear it and shut me down fast. After that, I was around her a while and slowly became more conversational, which was nice, but it seems the time/space apart didn't do anything for the anxiety and discomfort I had been causing with her before by being so serious and needy. I actually think now that the letter wouldn't help because it's not as if I need to 'get through to her' it seems that she just isn't ready to talk about anything between us. I don't think it's an issue of time alone, and the letter would've been too sappy in concept for her, so I'll just have to relax and be myself around her for a while without trying to apologize. I wanted to do that AFTER gaining some clarity and honesty between us, but I might've goofed on the order of operations. 

 

On the bright side, she certainly doesn't hate me, and didn't mind just talking and being around me, but that whole idea of "being away for a while so they miss you and will seek you out" definitely didn't work. Rather, I'm effectively at a standstill I think, where she's not really negative toward me but not as positive as she is with our friends either. She's made no effort to avoid me though. It's possible she's actually indifferent to my presence at this point, except for her seeming to enjoy our conversations again. 

 

All I can do now is just stay positive, show her that, and hope she'll come around. Also, yeah, ya'll probably think "dude just let it go and find somebody else" and I understand that but those of you who've known me here for a long time may remember me vaguely opening up about being a miserable slut for ages due to a serious fear of commitment and disinterest in most people. It's somewhat embarrassing in hindsight, but when it comes down to it I wouldn't be happy with somebody who doesn't fit a gargantuan amount of criteria, which only she has ever matched. So, until she starts dating somebody new, or really tells me off, I'm keeping my foot wedged in this door as best I can, because it's better than every conceivable alternative if I don't try.

[Candy]

@chuckles Dunno if you already found a way to discuss things with your girlfriend, but I supposed I could still give some input from my end.

 

As one who is probably in a similar situation as your girlfriend, I think I can offer a little advice.

From how you paint her on your first post, she seems to be a little shy, and indecisive. She also seems to prefer to avoid problems that come her way, while you look like the type to want to fight them fair and square.

I think she's feeling awkward around you because of how you made yourself look during the relationship (obsessive, demanding too much attention) and because of her confrontation with you. When you try to have a private talk with her, she is expecting another awkward encounter where you'll be apologizing and demanding explanations for her behavior towards you.

In such case, my best advice would be telling her up front that you want to re-do the relationship. Start all over. The key here is that you must not ask her what is up with her. She has made clear that she likes to keep things to herself, and if you want to make her comfortable around you, you have to let her do that. Tell her that you were acting desperate, because you had a mental picture about what a relationship ought to be, but that when she told you her true feelings (ie that she can't breathe from you being too attentive) you realized that you were acting unnatural just to conform to that mental image.

If she wants to talk, she will, but don't make it seem like she owes you an explanation.

 

Important: ask her if she is alright continuing the relationship. Don't accept an "I don't know" or "I guess" for an answer. She has to make a definitive answer, or I'd unfortunately have to say that the prospects are hopeless. This is because you, as the boyfriend, will never know if she loves you and is with you because she likes being with you, or for some other motive, unless she tells you exactly yes or no.

 

One more thing, you also have to think about your own feelings. Trying to solve your relationship problem seems to have been stressful for you, and I don't know if the stress of trying to act in the right way so as to not get on your girlfriend's nerves might persist. You have to be honest to yourself - love can't live on if it's fed poison all the time. The wise man is one who predicts the vitality of a relationship, and drops it if it will bear little fruit.

[chuckles]

9 hours ago, Candy said:

@chuckles Dunno if you already found a way to discuss things with your girlfriend, but I supposed I could still give some input from my end.

 

As one who is probably in a similar situation as your girlfriend, I think I can offer a little advice.

From how you paint her on your first post, she seems to be a little shy, and indecisive. She also seems to prefer to avoid problems that come her way, while you look like the type to want to fight them fair and square.

I think she's feeling awkward around you because of how you made yourself look during the relationship (obsessive, demanding too much attention) and because of her confrontation with you. When you try to have a private talk with her, she is expecting another awkward encounter where you'll be apologizing and demanding explanations for her behavior towards you.

In such case, my best advice would be telling her up front that you want to re-do the relationship. Start all over. The key here is that you must not ask her what is up with her. She has made clear that she likes to keep things to herself, and if you want to make her comfortable around you, you have to let her do that. Tell her that you were acting desperate, because you had a mental picture about what a relationship ought to be, but that when she told you her true feelings (ie that she can't breathe from you being too attentive) you realized that you were acting unnatural just to conform to that mental image.

If she wants to talk, she will, but don't make it seem like she owes you an explanation.

 

Important: ask her if she is alright continuing the relationship. Don't accept an "I don't know" or "I guess" for an answer. She has to make a definitive answer, or I'd unfortunately have to say that the prospects are hopeless. This is because you, as the boyfriend, will never know if she loves you and is with you because she likes being with you, or for some other motive, unless she tells you exactly yes or no.

 

One more thing, you also have to think about your own feelings. Trying to solve your relationship problem seems to have been stressful for you, and I don't know if the stress of trying to act in the right way so as to not get on your girlfriend's nerves might persist. You have to be honest to yourself - love can't live on if it's fed poison all the time. The wise man is one who predicts the vitality of a relationship, and drops it if it will bear little fruit.

 

I really appreciate that insight. That might be a good idea, although I'll wait a bit and just be friendly around her a couple times if I can. I want to approach it from the standpoint of trying to make amends, and attempt a fresh start. I think you're right, that from my tone and words she probably worried it'd be some dramatic and emotional debacle, which she'd definitely want to avoid. In the past, she would either bottle up the problems and avoid talking about them, or wait a while before mentioning something.

I remember once I made an offhanded joke about her mother playing Pokemon Go (I don't remember the specifics) and she took it as insulting....and waited something like a week and a half before saying anything about it to me. Then we cleared it up just fine but I remember finding out it really bothered her, and she asked a friend about it, and she waited over a week to say anything. 

If it matters, there were times when I quite directly asked her to give me any complaints she had, and she always refused. I think that, at least at this stage in her life, she's quite opposed to speaking negatively to a person about them, even if it needs to be said. I wouldn't tell her this, not right away, but she hadn't been complaining much until she confronted me at the end there, so I didn't realize I had been bothering her so much. If I'd understood that better, I could've really curbed it at least.

 

Anyway, I don't really want to ask her about continuing the relationship anytime soon because I'm pretty sure she's found herself in a perspective wherein the notion of a 'relationship', or that label at least, denotes expectations she just doesn't want to deal with, at least not now or soon. A totally fresh start without labels makes more sense to me right now as well. That bit about the "mental image" is spot on though, I think she knows I was pursuing such an image, but not that...well, that I don't need that image. That, if she really doesn't want to conform to sch a thing, and it's not a problem intrinsically, then it's fine. 

This may be difficult to explain (here or to her) but I'm an aggressively objective and/or scientific person, especially when I'm inexperienced with something. I took an approach to the relationship the way an amateur chef looks into a cookbook for the right recipes. I observed and learned what other people do, and what their relationships looked like, and I thought, "oh, THIS is how it's DONE" so I sought that image. It wasn't about what I wanted, just what I thought was expected. I'm still not sure how to explain that to her, especially since it....sort of deconstructs much of my behavior for which she came to know me, at least in the context of the relationship. Rather, it's not that I'd be a different person, but my role as a boyfriend would be vastly different.

Also, although I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, I am...an aggressively selfless person. That is, I don't mind suffering a bit if I think an end result, or another person, is benefited significantly. However, sometimes I goof on what will actually be most beneficial, which in turn causes me to suffer to no benefit. The point with that is just that I'm fully aware that with this newfound perspective, with her, I wouldn't need to suffer for this ideal because neither of us wanted it so much in the first place. That's a hell of a thing to tell somebody, though, right? It doesn't even sound real to me, but it's the truth. 

With regard to my own feelings and stress, I'm doing better as time goes on, and yes I'm still fretting over this a bunch, but much of that is in recognition of how much better and more fruitful the relationship could have been if I hadn't been so wrong and confused with regard to relationships, and partially, her wants and needs. Well, neither of us ever communicated such things very well, but the point remains. That is, I'll be alright, and it's actually somewhat relieving to think/type/talk about this, as it lets me really gather my thoughts and hopes. 

Of course, I can't guarantee anything, but if she doesn't hate me, and is simply fairly anxious around me right now, I think I can work to relieve that over time.

Trying to apologize or talk again anytime soon might be a mistake, as I fear she wouldn't be willing to hear me out at all, just assuming a bunch of things about what I would say. Also, I can't just get her into a private setting without her agreeing to it in front of a group, since I only see her with groups right now. So I don't know what I could nonchalantly say to or around her with a bunch of people listening in too. I figure I'll have to work on my actual approach if I can get her to agree to talk with me anyway. 

 

See, right now, the direct answer to the important question would surely be no. Yet, if I can talk to her a little and apologize sincerely, as well as showing her how relaxed and friendly I once was and can be and once was, that might change.