My theory on Lin

[Pozyher]

I have been thinking for a while why Lin is the true leader of Team Meteor and why even Solaris-the one who created Team Meteor-has to answer to her.Also when Lin joined Meteor she wasnt a high ranking officer as stated throughout(english is hard) the course of the game(or i think so) and she began climbing the ladder to eventually reach the point where she became the leader.

 

So i just started another run but this time i decided to do things not like i used to.What i mean is that when we were given a choice in the game in this save file i wanted to choose the options i never did before.For example say yes to Fern when he wants us to beg.

When choosing not to fight Sigmund and stay downstairs at Laura's place,Saphira gets kidnapped instead.This results in Laura telling the player a little bit about Lin(assuming it's the same person as the head of Meteor,which i do).The person Laura knew as Lin was a child a little younger that Anna currently is and was also in the orphanage like Laura.Laura was not fond of her as she would always mess with her.I think Laura has OCD which Lin would always abuse just for her amusement.At some point she pulled a trick on the doctor which made him angry and locked her in a room(sorry i dont remember exactly) and was never seen again.Some kids said she escaped others that the Doctor killed her.Prior to this when the player chooses not to fight Sigmund,after we get Heather he will say that he has no time for us  since a name he very well recognizes was constantly being used my the Meteors.When the player reaches the room with the Abra Sigmund mutters ''I'm sorry Lizzelin i wont get mad,i wont get mad''(or something like that,i dont remember exactly).Also Lin seems to know Saphira and she also mocks her bond she has with her sisters.

Later in the game when we reach the ''Birthplace of Arceus'',Adrienn says ''...But almost immediately i saw a girl climbing up the wall,and then El and you guys showed up''

Right before we leave that place someone that we dont know of says''HEHE that was fun.Lets keep playing together for a long,long time...Isnt that right?HEHEHE.....''

We know that time is distorted.I think its safe to assume that 1 hour in reborn equals to 10 years in that place.

Also like i have mentioned in another theory when Ame was asked if Nostra is actually a Jirachi she replied ''I will not dissapoint''

 

So here is what i think.The girl that Adrienn saw  ''just a few moments ago'' was Lin.I also believe that this is not the birth place of Arceus,but is somehow connected to Jirachi.As stated in Jirachi's pokedex entry,it sleeps all the time and once in every 1000 years it wakes up for 1 week and has the power to make any wish come true.Pokedex entries vary from gen to gen,but basically thats the one thing that dint change.Some conditions for that to happen come and go however.Lin actually got there(im afraid i havent come up with an idea how she ended up there in the first place) and asked Jirachi to make her wish come true(i assume Jirachi was awake at the time since time there flows differently).I believe she asked for power or something like that so what the doctor did to her wont happen again.When she left she had already aged (since she arrived there before Adrienn and left after Adrienn just landed there)That i think would also explain as to why every Meteor is afraid of her and why Laura doubts that this is the same Lin form back at the orphanage.I also think how Noel has Nomos,his Clefable,and an actual Clefable,the same way Anna will eventually have a Jirachi and i think it will be the Jirachi at that place.

 

 

To summarise my theory since my thoughts are scattered:Lin was an orphan at Sigmund's care,who one day snapped and hurt her.She somehow ended up at the ''Birth place of Arceus''and asked Jirachi for power.At that place lies Jirachi and not Arceus(but could be connected to both).Power was given to her and she joined Team Meteor.Like everyone else,Solaris too, became afraid of her which on the long run ended up in her becoming the head of Meteor.Anna will at some point capture that Jirachi or befriend it.I believe that voice we here at that place is the voice of Jirachi.Lin spend enough time down there for her to age and after she left,she continued to age normally.She arrived at that place before Adrienn and left when Adrienn landed there.

 

Also something that i forgot to mention.If my theory is correct,Lin should know that Arceus is not there but Jirachi is instead.So why is she trying to get there and why is she lying to the rest of the Meteors saying that Arceus lies there?Maybe she wants to get Jirachi so that she can wish that Jirachi brings Arceus to her or something like that

 

Many plot holes -i know- and my thoughts are as scattered as ever,but do let me know what you think and also let me know if you have any theories of your know

Sorry for the long post  

 

P.S why did we see the Lin's death at Shade's gym.Since she is the main villain that doesnt really add up.Maybe at some point we will end up sympathizing with her when we find out her plan?There might be a chance that at some point the player and Co. will stop seeing her as a threat??

I have more theories about Lin but for now lets just go with it.

 

 

 

[Dreamy]

14 minutes ago, Pozyher said:

I have been thinking for a while why Lin is the true leader of Team Meteor and why even Solaris-the one who created Team Meteor-has to answer to her.Also when Lin joined Meteor she wasnt a high ranking officer as stated throughout(english is hard) the course of the game(or i think so) and she began climbing the ladder to eventually reach the point where she became the leader.

 

So i just started another run but this time i decided to do things not like i used to.What i mean is that when we were given a choice in the game in this save file i wanted to choose the options i never did before.For example say yes to Fern when he wants us to beg.

When choosing not to fight Sigmund and stay downstairs at Laura's place,Saphira gets kidnapped instead.This results in Laura telling the player a little bit about Lin(assuming it's the same person as the head of Meteor,which i do).The person Laura knew as Lin was a child a little younger that Anna currently is and was also in the orphanage like Laura.Laura was not fond of her as she would always mess with her.I think Laura has OCD which Lin would always abuse just for her amusement.At some point she pulled a trick on the doctor which made him angry and locked her in a room(sorry i dont remember exactly) and was never seen again.Some kids said she escaped others that the Doctor killed her.Prior to this when the player chooses not to fight Sigmund,after we get Heather he will say that he has no time for us  since a name he very well recognizes was constantly being used my the Meteors.When the player reaches the room with the Abra Sigmund mutters ''I'm sorry Lizzelin i wont get mad,i wont get mad''(or something like that,i dont remember exactly).Also Lin seems to know Saphira and she also mocks her bond she has with her sisters.

Later in the game when we reach the ''Birthplace of Arceus'',Adrienn says ''...But almost immediately i saw a girl climbing up the wall,and then El and you guys showed up''

Right before we leave that place someone that we dont know of says''HEHE that was fun.Lets keep playing together for a long,long time...Isnt that right?HEHEHE.....''

We know that time is distorted.I think its safe to assume that 1 hour in reborn equals to 10 years in that place.

Also like i have mentioned in another theory when Ame was asked if Nostra is actually a Jirachi she replied ''I will not dissapoint''

 

So here is what i think.The girl that Adrienn saw  ''just a few moments ago'' was Lin.I also believe that this is not the birth place of Arceus,but is somehow connected to Jirachi.As stated in Jirachi's pokedex entry,it sleeps all the time and once in every 1000 years it wakes up for 1 week and has the power to make any wish come true.Pokedex entries vary from gen to gen,but basically thats the one thing that dint change.Some conditions for that to happen come and go however.Lin actually got there(im afraid i havent come up with an idea how she ended up there in the first place) and asked Jirachi to make her wish come true(i assume Jirachi was awake at the time since time there flows differently).I believe she asked for power or something like that so what the doctor did to her wont happen again.When she left she had already aged (since she arrived there before Adrienn and left after Adrienn just landed there)That i think would also explain as to why every Meteor is afraid of her and why Laura doubts that this is the same Lin form back at the orphanage.I also think how Noel has Nomos,his Clefable,and an actual Clefable,the same way Anna will eventually have a Jirachi and i think it will be the Jirachi at that place.

 

 

To summarise my theory since my thoughts are scattered:Lin was an orphan at Sigmund's care,who one day snapped and hurt her.She somehow ended up at the ''Birth place of Arceus''and asked Jirachi for power.At that place lies Jirachi and not Arceus(but could be connected to both).Power was given to her and she joined Team Meteor.Like everyone else,Solaris too, became afraid of her which on the long run ended up in her becoming the head of Meteor.Anna will at some point capture that Jirachi or befriend it.I believe that voice we here at that place is the voice of Jirachi.Lin spend enough time down there for her to age and after she left,she continued to age normally.She arrived at that place before Adrienn and left when Adrienn landed there.

 

Also something that i forgot to mention.If my theory is correct,Lin should know that Arceus is not there but Jirachi is instead.So why is she trying to get there and why is she lying to the rest of the Meteors saying that Arceus lies there?Maybe she wants to get Jirachi so that she can wish that Jirachi brings Arceus to her or something like that

 

Many plot holes -i know- and my thoughts are as scattered as ever,but do let me know what you think and also let me know if you have any theories of your know

Sorry for the long post  

 

P.S why did we see the Lin's death at Shade's gym.Since she is the main villain that doesnt really add up.Maybe at some point we will end up sympathizing with her when we find out her plan?There might be a chance that at some point the player and Co. will stop seeing her as a threat??

I have more theories about Lin but for now lets just go with it.

 

 

 

 

Agree:

- Anna will probably get a real Jirachi, or Nostra is already a real Jirachi in disguise.

- The "girl crawling up the wall" has a good chance of being the young Lin

- Young Lin used to be at the orphanage

 

Contesting:

- I'm pretty sure I played out the house part both ways, and I don't think it's ever Saphira that gets captured, as she's pretty essential to the counterattack. I also don't remember any of this dialogue from Laura about Lin in the orphanage. I got the impression that peoples memories of the younger Lin have been messed with.

- I believe in the part with sigmunds muttering, the name he said was Elizabeth, his sister who died at a young age.

- I've not really seen anything that would suggest a connection between Citae Arc-d'Astrae and Jirachi

- It's very much "not safe to assume that 1 hour in reborn equals to 10 years in that place." because otherwise Adrienn would be at least 87,600 years old. quite the opposite is strongly suggested (time is frozen down there unless someone with one of the keys enters)

- That said, Lin has likely undergone some kind of time/space fuckery, possibly related to that place, but the popular theory of the result of that seems to be that there is both a Young Lin and an Older Lin now running around.

- We've already seen that the scenes we were shown in shades gym don't necessarily correlate to death, like with Amaria (thank goodness). However it is possible that (Older) Lin will die near the end of the story. that death looked quite supernatural in origin (maybe an angry Arceus?)

[Lucky98]

3 minutes ago, DreamblitzX said:

 

- I'm pretty sure I played out the house part both ways, and I don't think it's ever Saphira that gets captured, as she's pretty essential to the counterattack. I also don't remember any of this dialogue from Laura about Lin in the orphanage. I got the impression that peoples memories of the younger Lin have been messed with.

 

There's actually four paths you can take there. If you chose not to battle Sigmund at Yureyu and then remained downstairs, Saphira ends up getting captured, and the player and Laura both go to rescue her. After the PULSE Abra teleports you to Tanzan depths, Laura will talk about how she knew a sadistic girl named Lin at the orphanage. 

[Zarc]

It's just an intuition but i think we play a role on Lin's plan i don't know , like if we are connected to her. Because she had opportunity to kill us and yet she didn't. More : when we were at devon , Zel said : " remember , Lin requested ( insert player's name ) not to be harmed " , why ? 

[Pozyher]

7 minutes ago, Zarc said:

It's just an intuition but i think we play a role on Lin's plan i don't know , like if we are connected to her. Because she had opportunity to kill us and yet she didn't. More : when we were at devon , Zel said : " remember , Lin requested ( insert player's name ) not to be harmed " , why ? 

Also Lin didnt harm us back at the Abra room even though she saw through Sirius's lie.However if i recall correctly at devon apart from her twisted game,she only harmed Ame and allowed the player and the others to walk away.My guess is that she doesn want/doesnt like hurting others or that she doesnt even consider us a threat

[Zarc]

Well , we were the one who destroy all of team meteor's plans , so i think we can actually be a theat

[Pozyher]

6 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

 

Agree:

- Anna will probably get a real Jirachi, or Nostra is already a real Jirachi in disguise.

- The "girl crawling up the wall" has a good chance of being the young Lin

- Young Lin used to be at the orphanage

 

Contesting:

- I'm pretty sure I played out the house part both ways, and I don't think it's ever Saphira that gets captured, as she's pretty essential to the counterattack. I also don't remember any of this dialogue from Laura about Lin in the orphanage. I got the impression that peoples memories of the younger Lin have been messed with.

- I believe in the part with sigmunds muttering, the name he said was Elizabeth, his sister who died at a young age.

- I've not really seen anything that would suggest a connection between Citae Arc-d'Astrae and Jirachi

- It's very much "not safe to assume that 1 hour in reborn equals to 10 years in that place." because otherwise Adrienn would be at least 87,600 years old. quite the opposite is strongly suggested (time is frozen down there unless someone with one of the keys enters)

- That said, Lin has likely undergone some kind of time/space fuckery, possibly related to that place, but the popular theory of the result of that seems to be that there is both a Young Lin and an Older Lin now running around.

- We've already seen that the scenes we were shown in shades gym don't necessarily correlate to death, like with Amaria (thank goodness). However it is possible that (Older) Lin will die near the end of the story. that death looked quite supernatural in origin (maybe an angry Arceus?)

-Was it confirmed at some poin in the game that Sigmund had a sister,or was it something that you read on the forums?

-I know that at the current  point we are,there has been no connection between Jirachi and that place,but i think Arceus being there makes it too easy for Team Meteor and to me it kinda makes sense for Jirachi to be there(kinda)

-I assumed that 1 hour in the Citae Arc-d'Astrae is equal to 10 years in Reborn,because Adrienn tells the player and Co. that it was just an hour ago that he arrived and then Radomous explained that it has been over a decade(it is possible that i remember it wrong and Adrienn said ''this morning'' instead of 1 hour ago)

-If you have the link to that topic could you please give me the link?I would be interested in reading that theory

 

[Dreamy]

7 hours ago, Lucky1998 said:

There's actually four paths you can take there. If you chose not to battle Sigmund at Yureyu and then remained downstairs, Saphira ends up getting captured, and the player and Laura both go to rescue her. After the PULSE Abra teleports you to Tanzan depths, Laura will talk about how she knew a sadistic girl named Lin at the orphanage. 

 

Oh I didn't know that, that's interesting! I'm guessing there's no real evidence about how long ago that was vs. the age difference between the Lin from the orphanage and the current Lin that we know. if it matched up, maybe there isn't actually any wierd time stuff with Lin and she just aged normally.

 

1 hour ago, Pozyher said:

Also Lin didnt harm us back at the Abra room even though she saw through Sirius's lie.However if i recall correctly at devon apart from her twisted game,she only harmed Ame and allowed the player and the others to walk away.My guess is that she doesn want/doesnt like hurting others or that she doesnt even consider us a threat

1 hour ago, Zarc said:

Well , we were the one who destroy all of team meteor's plans , so i think we can actually be a theat

 

Maybe because we've been such an annoyance to Team Meteor, she has some kind of special hell planned for us, and doesn't want us kicking the bucket before that, and/or part of that plan is making us watch the people around us suffer first.

 

56 minutes ago, Pozyher said:

-Was it confirmed at some poin in the game that Sigmund had a sister,or was it something that you read on the forums?

-I know that at the current  point we are,there has been no connection between Jirachi and that place,but i think Arceus being there makes it too easy for Team Meteor and to me it kinda makes sense for Jirachi to be there(kinda)

-I assumed that 1 hour in the Citae Arc-d'Astrae is equal to 10 years in Reborn,because Adrienn tells the player and Co. that it was just an hour ago that he arrived and then Radomous explained that it has been over a decade(it is possible that i remember it wrong and Adrienn said ''this morning'' instead of 1 hour ago)

-If you have the link to that topic could you please give me the link?I would be interested in reading that theory

 

 

I'm fairly sure it's been confirmed in game, though I don't remember how directly. I believe the screen in the back room of the abandoned power plant (with rotom) shows her, and I don't remember if it's in game or on the forums, but it is known that Sigmunds main reason for using shock 'therapy' is because his sister died at a young age and he believes the treatment might've saved her (who knows if it actually would've) but it wasn't allowed to be used at the time.

The 1 hour in the Citae being ~10 years outside is relatively OK, with the exception of the keys still with out time down there, however in the original post, you said the reverse of this, with 1 hour in Reborn being 10 years in the Citae (I assume you meant as how Lin got older). I also think it's possible that time is actually completely frozen down there, and the hour/morning that Adrienn mentioned is just made up of the time before xe was frozen, and the time between things being unfrozen in the present and xem meeting El/'Gardevoir'.

I don't remember a particular topic about the young Lin thing, It was just something floating around but I don't think there was a lot of evidence (an unused sprite in an old version, a bit of stuff from the online league)

[Zarc]

20 minutes ago, DreamblitzX said:

Maybe because we've been such an annoyance to Team Meteor, she has some kind of special hell planned for us, and doesn't want us kicking the bucket before that, and/or part of that plan is making us watch the people around us suffer first.

 

yes. Or perhaps it's something biggest , like the prelude to her sadistic plan : on devon , it's was us who fought against our own friends and make them suffered. What if it's in reality us who will in the future be her instrument to destroy our friends ? hum.... will see anyway , hope it will be spectacular like all the game was until now

[Dreamy]

6 minutes ago, Zarc said:

 

yes. Or perhaps it's something biggest , like the prelude to her sadistic plan : on devon , it's was us who fought against our own friends and make them suffered. What if it's in reality us who will in the future be her instrument to destroy our friends ? hum.... will see anyway , hope it will be spectacular like all the game was until now

 

That could've been a demonstration of 'how worthless our bonds of friendship and family are' as she'd probably put it.

[Sirrobert]

3 hours ago, Pozyher said:

-I assumed that 1 hour in the Citae Arc-d'Astrae is equal to 10 years in Reborn,because Adrienn tells the player and Co. that it was just an hour ago that he arrived and then Radomous explained that it has been over a decade(it is possible that i remember it wrong and Adrienn said ''this morning'' instead of 1 hour ago)

 

Yes, but that's the other way around than what you seen to be interpreting.

 

Things inside Citae Arc-dÁnstrae don't age, while things outside do age. You seemed to imply that Lin aged faster while inside.

[Pozyher]

2 hours ago, Sirrobert said:

Yes, but that's the other way around than what you seen to be interpreting.

 

Things inside Citae Arc-dÁnstrae don't age, while things outside do age. You seemed to imply that Lin aged faster while inside.

 

4 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

The 1 hour in the Citae being ~10 years outside is relatively OK, with the exception of the keys still with out time down there, however in the original post, you said the reverse of this, with 1 hour in Reborn being 10 years in the Citae (I assume you meant as how Lin got older). I also think it's possible that time is actually completely frozen down there, and the hour/morning that Adrienn mentioned is just made up of the time before xe was frozen, and the time between things being unfrozen in the present and xem meeting El/'Gardevoir'.

Yeah what i meant by that is if time could go the other way around as well.Not frozen but go forward.Of course not in the same way since that would make Lin a relic

[Just2Reborn]

Amethyst is probably reading this and thinking, "Oh, you are all so wrong...". I guess we just have to wait and see!

[Cyrikyty]

13 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

- We've already seen that the scenes we were shown in shades gym don't necessarily correlate to death, like with Amaria (thank goodness). However it is possible that (Older) Lin will die near the end of the story. that death looked quite supernatural in origin (maybe an angry Arceus?)

To be precise, Shade outright tells us at the end of the WTC that only 2 of the scenes shown in his gym correlate to death, the other 2 do not. Since Corey and Kiki died, both Amaria and Lin will live. Ofcourse Lin could die by some other reason not shown, but the scene shown will not kill her. So, that leads to the question what actually happens to Lin in that scene, which we wont be able to know until it actually happens.

[Dreamy]

20 minutes ago, Cyrikyty said:

To be precise, Shade outright tells us at the end of the WTC that only 2 of the scenes shown in his gym correlate to death, the other 2 do not. Since Corey and Kiki died, both Amaria and Lin will live. Ofcourse Lin could die by some other reason not shown, but the scene shown will not kill her. So, that leads to the question what actually happens to Lin in that scene, which we wont be able to know until it actually happens.

 

I think this was also mentioned around people speculating the two Lins thing. Unlike Amarias scene which was fairly ambiguous, having your body falling apart is quite hard to survive. Maybe shade isnt counting it as a 'death' because the young lin is still alive. Maybe Old Lin isn't even a proper person, which would explain why Anna (with her special sight) couldn't see anyone riding hydreigon above tanzan. Annas mysterious dialogue when it comes to these things is basically always spot on, even if it doesnt seem all that significant. (Still wondering when Cains "pitch black eyes" will make sense)

[Egzample]

4 hours ago, Just2Reborn said:

Amethyst is probably reading this and thinking, "Oh, you are all so wrong...". I guess we just have to wait and see!

 

I think it is the otherwise, she reads it through, then when we get accurate on something, she changes it, just to prove she is so unpredictable xD

 

3 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

 

I think this was also mentioned around people speculating the two Lins thing. Unlike Amarias scene which was fairly ambiguous, having your body falling apart is quite hard to survive. Maybe shade isnt counting it as a 'death' because the young lin is still alive. Maybe Old Lin isn't even a proper person, which would explain why Anna (with her special sight) couldn't see anyone riding hydreigon above tanzan. Annas mysterious dialogue when it comes to these things is basically always spot on, even if it doesnt seem all that significant. (Still wondering when Cains "pitch black eyes" will make sense)

 

 

Shade at the end of WTC clearly said that only two deaths from the screens are on spot, and since we have seen Kiki and Corey dying, and we also witnessed what has happened to Amaria, we can safely assume exploding Lin will also take place - but if it is not death, in addition to Anna not seeing her, we can safely state that it is some kind of an impostor, robot, clone, illusion, avatar, you name it.

[whatonearth]

7 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

 

I think this was also mentioned around people speculating the two Lins thing. Unlike Amarias scene which was fairly ambiguous, having your body falling apart is quite hard to survive. Maybe shade isnt counting it as a 'death' because the young lin is still alive. Maybe Old Lin isn't even a proper person, which would explain why Anna (with her special sight) couldn't see anyone riding hydreigon above tanzan. Annas mysterious dialogue when it comes to these things is basically always spot on, even if it doesnt seem all that significant. (Still wondering when Cains "pitch black eyes" will make sense)

 

Tbh I mostly agree with this line of thinking. It seems like Anna's sight specifically correlates with souls (e.g. her seeing burn scars on Charlotte but not mentioning them on Laura or Saphira; while the fire impacted all three of them, it seemed to scar her the most, if we attribute it to souls we can also attribute it to Cain, seeing as eyes are the "window to the soul" and she sees his as all black. this might be a bit of a reach though lol) so her not seeing Lin implies that whatever happens, that Lin might not have a soul

 

And if I remember right, Shade's prophecy didn't say the people would die, just that they would be "taken". And with the soul thing in mind, pluuuus the fact that Shade basically took Corey after he died, leads to the fact that Lin can't be taken because there's nothing to take lol. but the Lin in the scene COULD be the real Lin, and it's just that her soul was never taken because it merged with Arceus or she sold/destroyed it or something haha

 

Also something doesn't really sit right with me >_< the prophecy thing's last line is "for, forsooth, from foreshadowed, only two will be taken". Corey's death wasn't foreshadowed; it already happened when we got to Shade's gym. That leaves three choices: Kiki, Amaria, and Lin. We already know Amaria isn't taken, so whatever happens with Lin, I have a feeling the explosion thingy marks her losing her soul for good. Or something. Not to mention the "will" in his prophecy...if it had been Kiki and Corey, what's with the future tense? It sorta implies that somebody's soul *hasn't* been taken yet, but will be. 

 

 

[Dreamy]

38 minutes ago, whatonearth said:

And if I remember right, Shade's prophecy didn't say the people would die, just that they would be "taken". And with the soul thing in mind, pluuuus the fact that Shade basically took Corey after he died, leads to the fact that Lin can't be taken because there's nothing to take lol. but the Lin in the scene COULD be the real Lin, and it's just that her soul was never taken because it merged with Arceus or she sold/destroyed it or something haha

 

Also something doesn't really sit right with me >_< the prophecy thing's last line is "for, forsooth, from foreshadowed, only two will be taken". Corey's death wasn't foreshadowed; it already happened when we got to Shade's gym. That leaves three choices: Kiki, Amaria, and Lin. We already know Amaria isn't taken, so whatever happens with Lin, I have a feeling the explosion thingy marks her losing her soul for good. Or something. Not to mention the "will" in his prophecy...if it had been Kiki and Corey, what's with the future tense? It sorta implies that somebody's soul *hasn't* been taken yet, but will be.

 

I think it's ambiguous enough that Corey could be included in the ones "forshadowed", and the future tense might be because not all of the 4 shown events have happened yet? (ie like "when these 4 events have happened, 2 souls will be taken"). I feel like either interpretation could be correct.