do you be leave in god?

[Cloud]

Simply put - I am agnostic and it is simply because I was religious as a small child until I was able to perceive the world and its religious practices for what they were, and I didn't have any firm belief in any of them (and still don't, of course) but I instead choose to believe that there is a higher power yet to be discovered/practiced, and that is the higher power that I seek to reside in, if it is to exist, of course.

[Maelstrom]

Sounds like reincarnation

It is, in a manner of speaking. Conservation of mass and energy and all that. The circle of life is a tale of many stomachs; that which is eaten and becomes a part of another life, only to be eaten or die in turn, the materials broken down by exposure and microbial agents, altering the state of the materials to be used by larger and larger organisms again. Without death and destruction there is no room for new life and creation.

[Summer]

If what you said was true, that could very well explain why some people understand some things which others do not. Because the particles itself holds memories to the past lifes. Something like the 999 game.

[Summer]

If god existed, wouldn't the world be extremely rely on him? After which, independence would cease to exist and the world becomes lazy. Why do you think God keeps himself from us? To avoid such a thing.

[FraRPetO]

WE ARE THE BUILDERS OF OUR OWN FATE.

I believe that one's power comes from their own being.

Although, however, thinking about what happens after death does pique my curiosity.

Yes, we have free will

God gave us free will, so we can do whatever we want

People, you should take a look and study the bible, give it a chance

You'll understand many things, it's not written just for fun

[The Fush]

I'm gonna make this simple.

Never cared about how this world was made or how all the life sprang up. All I know is that it's here now, so I don't care if there is a god or not, and I'm just gonna mess around wit what there is, because why not

[Maelstrom]

Yes, we have free will

God gave us free will, so we can do whatever we want

People, you should take a look and study the bible, give it a chance

You'll understand many things, it's not written just for fun

People in the bible married into their own families. Just sayin.'

Have you read the geneology stuff in Genesis and how the bible tries to make a big deal of it all. Did you know that through David, Jesus is royalty? Gave a little extra credence to the case that Jesus might have been a revolutionary, with some people mistaking his intent for his kingdom to be on earth. Anyways, the bible is full of stuff that is pretty crazy. There's a lot of kingdom and victory promising... Mostly in the old testament. I'm not a fan. New testament has a lot of good stuff, with a lot of good ethical references. Supposed to supercede most of the old testament stuff. Then there's the Koran, supposedly part 3 in the series if you're muslim, which has rules about jihad and stuff. Not exactly fair to lump 'em all together like that, but it's one perspective on these religions. I was bored and wired on caffeine one day after shift, so I was reading a king james bible that was lying around the room randomly.

[FraRPetO]

People in the bible married into their own families. Just sayin.'

Have you read the geneology stuff in Genesis and how the bible tries to make a big deal of it all. Did you know that through David, Jesus is royalty? Gave a little extra credence to the case that Jesus might have been a revolutionary, with some people mistaking his intent for his kingdom to be on earth. Anyways, the bible is full of stuff that is pretty crazy. There's a lot of kingdom and victory promising... Mostly in the old testament. I'm not a fan. New testament has a lot of good stuff, with a lot of good ethical references. Supposed to supercede most of the old testament stuff. Then there's the Koran, supposedly part 3 in the series if you're muslim, which has rules about jihad and stuff. Not exactly fair to lump 'em all together like that, but it's one perspective on these religions. I was bored and wired on caffeine one day after shift, so I was reading a king james bible that was lying around the room randomly.

Think about Adam and Eve, they made children, and their children also made children

We all have the same root

There's God's kingdom, Jesus will be the King

Try reading Daniel 2:44, it's about God's Kingdom

[Summer]

okay, look. The bible was directed to the christians, not to all races. The bible has also casted a bad image of some countries. It would be best for us to continue talking about the afterlife rather then talking about the bible

[FraRPetO]

Who told you the bible was directed to christians only?

[Maelstrom]

Think about Adam and Eve, they made children, and their children also made children

We all have the same root

There's God's kingdom, Jesus will be the King

Try reading Daniel 2:44, it's about God's Kingdom

Oh, and what about that one chick that appeared out of nowhere? Lilith?

Anyways, don't have any bibles handy to check through stuff. Can you elaborate?

I mostly remember the bible makes all sorts of promises if only the faith is kept. So very mercenary.

In Jewish folklore, from the 8th–10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira onwards, Lilith becomes Adam's first wife, who was created at the same time and from the same earth as Adam. This contrasts with Eve, who was created from one of Adam's ribs. The legend was greatly developed during the Middle Ages, in the tradition of Aggadic midrashim, the Zohar and Jewish mysticism.^[3] In the 13th Century writings of Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Cohen, for example, Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden after she mated with archangel Samael.^[4] The resulting Lilith legend is still commonly used as source material in modern Western culture, literature, occultism, fantasy, and horror.

In the old testament, god promised kingdoms and power and prosperity and talks directly to people and there are angels everywhere. Where'd they go? This god is pretty interventionist.

[FraRPetO]

Oh, and what about that one chick that appeared out of nowhere? Lilith?

Anyways, don't have any bibles handy to check through stuff. Can you elaborate?

I mostly remember the bible makes all sorts of promises if only the faith is kept. So very mercenary.

It doesn't say anything about Lilith in the bible.

It's a Jewish mythology

But in Isaiah 34:14, it says something about Nightjar, which is Li-lith (Hebrew word)

Read about it, but it doesn't say anything about Adam's first wife

God has promised us a Kingdom

That's what refers to ;Daniel 2:44

And we don't only need faith, we have to do God's will

I'll get to the rest later

[Skeleton]

Atheist here. I don't believe that there is anything like a god. EVERYTHING IS ALIENS.

I'm curious about death, and what comes after it though.

And I kinda believe in reincarnation.

Because I don't want to die and just... be left with nothing.

It'd be awesome if I could just continue living as somebody else, but with no memories of my previous life.

It comforts me a bit, at least, to know that I wont stop living that way. I'm afraid of death...

And sometimes I wish I could believe there was a god.

Then I could pray to him, and he'd make everything better...

[Maelstrom]

That would be convenient, wouldn't it? I'd rather keep on keeping on too, but that just isn't how it works. =(

YOLO- which means I have shit to do. god and i really hate that meme too..

[Ysera]

You know, to me you can be anything, Agnostic, Atheist, Believer, whatever.

But once you try to spread, preach, or impose your thoughts onto someone else, you've lost quite a bit of my caring.

We can't be sure if we'll reincarnate or if we'll just cease to be, So I just choose to leave that definition open until the day I actually discover myself.

Either way, Life's all about making the most out of the time you have - (fuck yolo, seriously, that shit is stupid). Spending useful time on an offensive discussion like that of religion just doesn't cut it for me.

[FraRPetO]

on Ame's crystaline thing

You clearly know very little

Do you know what happened when Jesus died? He freed us from our sins, so we can live forever in the paradise, if we love God

(Notice, there's no Hell, we don't go somewhere to suffer the rest of our "lives" when we're dead, we just die and nothing happens. But Heaven is where Angels live and God. After Jesus died, he came to Heaven because that's where he really belongs. And those 144.000 mentioned in the bible are also going to Heaven)

He mentioned about man and woman are supposed to be together, because that's what God has made humans to be

He also says, that we must love our neighbor, that means we have to love all people, no matter if they're gay, non-believers and so on

Also think about kids in the future, children need a mother and a father, it's natural

Is it natural to have 2 fathers or 2 mothers? No, it's not.

Divorce is also discouraged.

Homosexuals are not the only ones to satisfy their needs in an unnatural way, there are people who are transsexuals, people who have sexual relationships with 3-4 or more women/men at the same time

Those are not natural at all, but they're people too

No matter if you're atheist, muslim, buddhist or whatever, your children will need one mother and one father

They will notice this unnatural thing, and they sure won't like it

Many young people become criminals because of the problems at home

Try studying with someone who has knowledge to the bible, it would help you to understand things more

And last but not least, think logically, with your brain and heart

[Maelstrom]

on Ame's crystaline thing

You clearly know very little

Do you know what happened when Jesus died? He freed us from our sins, so we can live forever in the paradise, if we love God

(Notice, there's no Hell, we don't go somewhere to suffer the rest of our "lives" when we're dead, we just die and nothing happens. But Heaven is where Angels live and God. After Jesus died, he came to Heaven because that's where he really belongs. And those 144.000 mentioned in the bible are also going to Heaven)

He mentioned about man and woman are supposed to be together, because that's what God has made humans to be

He also says, that we must love our neighbor, that means we have to love all people, no matter if they're gay, non-believers and so on

Also think about kids in the future, children need a mother and a father, it's natural

Is it natural to have 2 fathers or 2 mothers? No, it's not.

Divorce is also discouraged.

Homosexuals are not the only ones to satisfy their needs in an unnatural way, there are people who are transsexuals, people who have sexual relationships with 3-4 or more women/men at the same time

Those are not natural at all, but they're people too

No matter if you're atheist, muslim, buddhist or whatever, your children will need one mother and one father

They will notice this unnatural thing, and they sure won't like it

Many young people become criminals because of the problems at home

Try studying with someone who has knowledge to the bible, it would help you to understand things more

And last but not least, think logically, with your brain and heart

So... you believe that people can't go to hell anymore ever since Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Interesting.

Dude, you know nothing of "natural" if you can really say that relations with multiple people isn't natural, nor that the occurrence of transgender-ness and homosexuality isn't a natural occurrence.

"Problems at home" almost exclusively being domestice violence and poverty, not simply the gender of their parents. You might think that, but there is no supporting evidence whatsoever that same sex parents are likelier to cause children they raise to become criminal or social problems of any sort.

You might think we don't know much, but your viewpoint is actually quite limited. A lot of what you say are assumptions rather than anything based on fact in any way.

The bible might mention 144,000, but it also says moses and many other figures lived to be multiple centuries old. Which is funny given how the lifespan for people was more like 50 years and shorter.

Mother and Father? What are their traditional roles? Care giver and provider. Those are definitely not roles lilmited by gender.And what about single parents?

Natural is the most piss-poor excuse for anything I've ever known. Did you know rape is a successful reproductive strategy? It's a natural phenomenon that occurs quite often in nature. Does that make it right? No, but it's still natural.

I know they like to talk alot in sunday schools, and forgive me for being hostile, but you really need to get away from that single source of information. Fact checkers would have a field day with your post.

/rant

[FraRPetO]

So... you believe that people can't go to hell anymore ever since Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Interesting.

Dude, you know nothing of "natural" if you can really say that relations with multiple people isn't natural, nor that the occurrence of transgender-ness and homosexuality isn't a natural occurrence.

"Problems at home" almost exclusively being domestice violence and poverty, not simply the gender of their parents. You might think that, but there is no supporting evidence whatsoever that same sex parents are likelier to cause children they raise to become criminal or social problems of any sort.

You might think we don't know much, but your viewpoint is actually quite limited. A lot of what you say are assumptions rather than anything based on fact in any way.

The bible might mention 144,000, but it also says moses and many other figures lived to be multiple centuries old. Which is funny given how the lifespan for people was more like 50 years and shorter.

Mother and Father? What are their traditional roles? Care giver and provider. Those are definitely not roles lilmited by gender.And what about single parents?

Natural is the most piss-poor excuse for anything I've ever known. Did you know rape is a successful reproductive strategy? It's a natural phenomenon that occurs quite often in nature. Does that make it right? No, but it's still natural.

I know they like to talk alot in sunday schools, and forgive me for being hostile, but you really need to get away from that single source of information. Fact checkers would have a field day with your post.

/rant

There has never been a "Hell"

When we die, do you think the human spirit goes to Hell when one have rejected God?

When we die, we just die. It's like sleeping, we just don't wake up

Transsexuality and homosexuality is not natural, it's never meant to be male + male or female + female

I didn't say the parents had to be sexual partners to get problems at home, they could be many other things, but homosexuality of parents can be one of them

144.000 have nothing to do with age

Besides, it started during Jesus' time

Would you like having homosexual parents? I know for sure I wouldn't, it's not normal and it has never been

We live in the modern world, where people think wickedness is fine

Good to know that God's Kingdom will come soon and remove all the bad things in the world

How is rape natural? Sex is natural, but you shouldn't use sex to your own satisfying self

Rape is cruelty, which is obviously not good

Maybe you're the one who actually should go try a bible study

[Yuki]

Are you kidding me??

Have you read up on any of the stuff you're saying using MODERN literature?

Studies show children of gay parents are generally happier, less likely to get involved in drug or gang activity, and more involved in school and extracurricular activities.

I'd sure as hell be happier with two gay parents than I would being shipped from foster home to foster home all my damn life.

Generally, homophobia, casual or obvious is frowned upon here (and in most of the modern world) so I don't appreciate seeing it anywhere, here especially.

To clarify, a great example of casual homophobia is saying things like

Transsexuality and homosexuality is not natural, it's never meant to be male + male or female + female

I didn't say the parents had to be sexual partners to get problems at home, they could be many other things, but homosexuality of parents can be one of them

Would you like having homosexual parents? I know for sure I wouldn't, it's not normal and it has never been

We live in the modern world, where people think wickedness is fine

Good to know that God's Kingdom will come soon and remove all the bad things in the world

ESPECIALLY without proper research.

Institution of marriage-- for a man and woman? Even if you factor it based on percentage of the given group (100 homosexual couples, 100 thousand straight couples) implementing ratios, gay couples have been proven through research to be less likely to get divorced, cheat, and-- oh? Raise delinquents. And don't even get me started on the whole separation of church and state-- unless it's something we old christian white people don't like! thing. HUMAN EQUALITY being one of them.

If you're going to spew bias, at least have some sort of basis of argument rather than "Well in my imagination..."

[Yuki]

While we're talking about this, can I just rant about how fucked up it is to argue using personal morals? (Why in discussions like these, I only argue using research/data)

In every culture, we can agree that both killing and raping are unkind.

Why do I say "unkind", and not "wrong"? Because in some cultures, it's different. I can judge it all I want, I can fucking boycott that culture to hell, but I don't know a damn thing about it's inner workings. I've been socialized to see those things as wrong arbitrarily.

You send kids to school where they learn things like "Do not bite", "Share", "Use your inside voice" so that they can grow up to internalize these values and become functional members of the society they're currently living in. Those values vary culture to culture, and thus, so do the methods and content of socialization.

Apparently some people are taught "Different is weird and should be talked down to/about", "If it ain't the word of a preacher it ain't a word I'll repeat", "Fags will burn", "US Troops are dyng by God's will" (WBC, we all know how badly THEY were socialized) and that's a great example of my society's modern "normal" socialization procedure at a young age and an extremist group's.

I want to make it clear I'm not at all talking about/bashing Christianity right now it was literally just the first example that came to my mind lol I've moved on from the last post.

... Anyways, the thing is, WBC people were socialized differently and thus form a counter-culture since they collectively shun and reject society's values. And since the majority of society has been socialized to stand AGAINST WBC's values, conflict arises.

At one point, the founder of WBC was either undersocialized on the topic of homosexuality or oversocialized in an unorthodox manner (kill em all), which is how he ended up growing nto a man that rejects social norms and raises a church and family to support him.

Really makes you think about how/where motivation comes from.

[Maelstrom]

144000 is just another random number from the bible. The bible is bad at things, like accuracy. That's all I'm referring to there.

If I had homosexual parents, I'm pretty damn sure I wouldn't care if the care I received was the same. I was raised by a single parent anyways, so yeah.

Rape is natural- competition for mates and resources is basic nature. By raping, males generally avoid competition and produce offspring anyhow, though males tend to safeguard their females and prevent this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/15/books/what-provokes-a-rapist-to-rape-scientists-debate-notion-of-an-evolutionary-drive.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

BTW, Dr. Thornhill was my human sexuality class instructor. That book it mentions has long been published now and as distasteful as the idea is, rape has occurred very often in the history of humanity and other animals as well. Just because a thing is natural, doesn't by default make it good. This example proves this point perfectly. BTW, your jeans are evil because they aren't natural. Almost everything we encounter isn't natural. Do you think sidwalks are natural, that they just grow out of the ground for our convenience? Nearly everything in our everyday lives have been manipulated from the natural state of things to make them more beneficial to us. Jeans, computers, phones... like I said, just about everything.

Polygamy- mulitple spouses, or multiple mates if you will, is quite common throughout nature and human history as well. Polygamy is found everywhere in the bible. Take my namesake Jacob, for example. He married his cousin Rachel as well as his sister, and if you really read the bible, biblical figures had many children by their wives and slaves and servants.

If the old testament that Jesus pretty much died to nullify has no effect anymore, why is it still preserved and taught by the church?

What is 'normal' is absolutely relative. It used to be normal for countries to go to war with swords, shields, axes, bows and arrows and rape and conquer and steal whatever wealth could be carried off. Is that normal now? Riding around in cars is pretty normal now. Didn't used to be. Normal is simply how often something is seen/done. And that is changing every day.

[Jelly]

Okay, this has become quite a popular thread, so I'm gonna put in my two cents as a Catholic.

1. The Bible was written in two parts, Old and New Testament

2. The Old Testament (OT) is compromised of 4 parts, The Pentateuch (or The Books of Law, First 5 books of the Bible), The Historical Books, Wisdom Literature, The Prophetic Books.

---The Historical Books are to be taken literally, while the others are to be taken metaphorically to some extent

---(note: I will not go into detail on this, if you really want to know about the OT, then Google it)

3. The New Testament (NT) is compromised of the writings of 1st century Christians.

--- Made up of the Gospels, Epistles, and Pauline Letters

--- Most of these Books are to be taken metaphorically, like Jesus' parables. They are ways of teaching through stories unrelated to the topic.

---(i.e. 1 Timothy 2:12-14)

4.... Meh, It's late at night. And Mael- The whole Lilith thing, that was in an apocryphal book that the Church ruled "lacking of Divine Inspiration"

And that's all... I guess, I really didn't know where I was going with that whole thing. I lost my train of thought at least 6 times while writing that...

[Maelstrom]

Well, it is well documented in history that the church sifted through all the stories and hand picked which writing and stories went into the bible, a concerted effort at controlling what people ended up believing to be divinity and truth. Ever heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Also, here is something about the history of christianity and other religions that bears some going over by everybody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE

[Amethyst]

@ Wash

My blog post was directed solely at dispatching the reasoning that something is absolute just because the Bible says so. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong Ametree.

Edit: *shot*

Edited September 20, 2012 by Maelstrom
*Reloads*

[Skeleton]

Love is love.

I don't care if it's male + female, male + male or female + female.

What the fuck does this even have to do with the topic.

oh I gotta go to school now but I have computer class so brb I'll edit this.