Filthy Casual Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Hello! I noticed recently that there wasn't a tier list for Episode 16 of Reborn (this is now going to be updated with E17 in mind). I thought that we may be able to change that with this following list. The way you make a tier list is simple, you must rank each family based on: -accessibility -utility -movepool -how well it utilizes field effects -overall potential This shall be a community thing, so I have posted the rankings below from the last tier list (created by Lord Wallace). With that in mind, happy voting! S-Rank: These Pokemon are arguably the best in the game, being able to hold their own from the instant you get them, which is usually very early, to much later in the game. They never really lose their usefulness, and are the Pokemon you should be using if you want the smoothest and easiest play though. Spoiler Blaziken (edited by Paperblade, also can be considered S+) +Starter, tying it for the best availability in the game +Hits like a truck, with STAB moves like Blaze Kick and High Jump Kick and 120 base attack +Speed Boost allows it to outspeed everything if it survives 1-2 rounds +Bulk Up allows it to setup, combined with Speed Boost it can sweep several fights with little to no support +Compact move list allows it to run HMs like Rock Smash and Strength in its 4th move list, or flex a TM move like Shadow Claw or Substitute -Bad against Ciel and sort of Radomus (but still easily outspeeds Radomus's team, since they all have -speed natures, and can get KOs on things like Gallade and Metagross with its Fire STAB) -Most of its moves either have a miss chance or recoil, although running Wide Lens mostly mitigates this Delphox (edited by Paperblade) +Starter +Fire/Psychic STAB is insane, being SE vs. all 3 rivals as well as several other fights throughout the game +Even against Gyms super effective against it, frequently its STAB combo allows it to get in a KO or two (Shade's Trevenant and Doublade, Terra's Nidoking, Luna's Bisharp) +114 SpAtk and 104 Speed +Utility moves like Will-o-Wisp and Light Screen +Coverage from Grass Knot or Shadow Ball -Abilities are meh, Magician requires you to not use a held item to benefit -Rock, Dark, and Ground weaknesses means it frequently gets hit by coverage moves Flygon (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable from trade before 6th gym, being a traded mon means it gains boosted EXP +Dragon Dance from move relearner +Massive movelist, including Earthquake, Dragon Claw, Rock Slide from level up, Crunch+Superpower from previous evolutions; Iron Tail and Fire/Thunder Punch from tutors +100 attack is good enough when supported by its huge movepool and boosting move +80/80/80 durability when combined with its very few weaknesses and two immunities is good enough to facilitate getting boosts off in a multitude of situations +Its immunities allow allies to spam Discharge and Earthquake in double battles without drawback, since Flygon is immune to both -Double Ice weakness means it need to be able to OHKO anything with Ice coverage, and many Ice types later either run Ice Shard or are high speed thanks to Slush Rush (both Titania and Blake's Sandslashes have Slush Rush, and Blake's Mamoswine+Weavile both run Ice Shard) -Fairy weakness makes it not great vs. Adrienn, although it can still fish for flinches with Rock Slide or hit Earthquake/Fire Punch vs. Mawile Magnezone (edited by Filthy Casual) +Available right before Shade +Has an excellent Special Attack stat +Can really take advantage of the field effects with its moveset (Discharge and Flash Cannon are excellent for fields) +Steel/Electric is a decent type, and the Air Balloon is available in order to help with the ground weakness +Great against many of the gyms +STURDY FTW -You are stuck with Magneton for a while, but it can still put in work -It's speed leaves much to be desired -It is garbage against Charlotte and Terra -Magnet pull kills Magnezone's potential Mamoswine (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable before 4th gym +130 Attack +Tons of attack with STAB Earthquake +Priority in Ice Shard +Amazing STAB combination +Weaknesses compensated for by Thick Fat -Lacks resistances and isn't the fastest, so gets worn down -Earthquake is iffy in double battles -Needs to breed to get a stronger Ice move than Ice Fang A Rank: These Pokemon are almost always useful, but are held back from the S-tier for one reason or another. They usually have good stats, decent availability, good movepool and can usually handle themselves in battles. Spoiler Aggron (edited by Paperblade) +Catchable in the deeper unground railnet, post-Aya +STABs are great vs. Serra, Bennett, Blake, Charlotte, Ciel, and Adrienn +180 Defense +Sturdy allows it to always get at least one hit in -Awful against Samson and Terra due to double weakness -70/60 special bulk -50 Speed Alakazam (edited by Octavius, adjusted by Azery) + 135 Sp. ATK/120 SPE is a lethal combination + Excellent revenge killer + With Gardevoir being pushed back, Alakazam becomes one of the most reliable psychic types in the game -Lots of Fighting- and Poison- types in Reborn, but you don't get Zam until after most of them -Horrid movepool in Psychic, Charge Beam, and Hidden Power, only alleviated somewhat by Grass Knot and Dazzling Gleam end-game -Magic Guard not as useful in playthroughs as it is in competitive battling -Lucky to ever survive a single hit -Generally outclassed by movepools and bulk of the other Psychic-types in the game Amoonguss (edited by Paperblade) +Catchable on Azurine Island +Poison typing lets it use Black Sludge +114/70/80 bulk and Synthesis make it hard to kill +Tons of utility moves like Toxic, Spore, and Leech Seed +Clear Smog can shutdown things that boost +Regenerator -Mostly beats things by whittling them down and outlasting, so frequently struggles against offensively oriented pokemon -One of the worst cases of 4MSS in Reborn, its levelup list is so good that you want to have 5-6 of its available moves -30 speed means it's always going to be outsped, and thus struggles heavily in fights like Charlotte and Blake where it is at a type disadvantage Archeops (edited by Yagami) +has 140 in attack and 110 in speed basically one of the best fast physical sweeper +Learns acrobatics at level 28 so 110 bp stab move +also learns dragon claw,rock slide,crunch, u turn and endeavor by level up.Even some dragon type can't learn dragon claw by level up. + destroys Charlotte,Samson and Ciel with only acrobatics and rock slide.For Charlotte's gym battle let it hold wide lens for Samson's gym battle let it hold metronome. + flying gem boosted acrobatics does insane damage and U turn to get out tough situation. - defeatist ability - Only 65 in defense and special defense. - TM earthquake is not available yet so steel,rock and electric type are threats. Azumarill (edited by Octavius) +Excellent typing +has Huge Power and good bulk +Ridiculous early stab in Aqua Tail and Play Rough +Available very early as mystery egg +One of the best Water-types throughout the course of the entire game -Tricky to evolve -Needs Aqua Jet bred onto it to compensate for poor Speed Chandelure (edited by Paperblade) +Insane 145 special attack +Fire/Ghost STAB is nearly completely unresisted +Useful status moves like Confuse Ray and Will-o-Wisp +Good against Bennett, Fern and Blake, and Flash Fire allows it to ignore Charlotte's Heat Waves -Obtainable after Radomus -Poor against Luna and Terra Cinccino (edited by Paperblade) +Catchable in Chrysolia Forest +Skill Link effectively gives it 125BP Rock, Grass, and Normal moves +115 Speed -95 Attack means even with the power of its moves, it can frequently fail to get KOs -75/60/60 bulk Diggersby (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in Rhodochrine Jungle +Huge Power makes its poor 56 Attack amazing +Earthquake at Level 57 +Swords Dance + STAB Quick Attack -Average bulk and speed -Fighting and Ice weakness means it often faces threat of OHKO Durant (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in Tanzan Depths, after Serra +Steel typing is great vs. Blake and Adrienn +Bug types great vs. Radomus and Luna +Hustle off 109 Attack means it hits like a truck +Good 109 Speed -Horrible special bulk, 58/48 -OHKO'd by anything Charlotte has, and both STABs are resisted -Hustle makes its accuracy unreliable Excadrill (edited by Azeria) + Mystery Egg (Available and fully evolvable pre Corey) + It's entire movepool is available around the time you get the egg + 135 attack + Sand Rush and Mold Breaker + Natural Earthquake, Swords Dance, Rock Slide and Sandstorm + With minimum support it can quite literally sweep basically every boss in the game, no joke. + It's best partner, Hippowdon is available relatively early too - Earliest access is the Mystery Egg, and if not, can only be found at the Tourmaline Desert - Poor bulk Feraligatr (edited by Paperblade) +Starter +Sheer Force and 105 Attack boosts Ice Fang and Crunch +Agility allows it to boost its 78 base Speed +85/100/83 bulk +Benefits hugely from Life Orb -No Physical Water STAB until Aqua Tail, which isn't Sheer Force boosted; needs to wait for Waterfall Golem (Kantonian) (edited by NickCrash) +Available after Corey +Great bulk (80/130/65) +Solid in the early game, and it becomes progressively better +Early access to Earthquake, Smack Down and Heavy Slam, medium access to Stone Edge (55lvl) +Very good against Shelly, Aya, Charlotte, Ciel and Bennet +Sturdy -Very Slow (45) -X4 weakness to Grass and Water -lol at it's performance against Amaria Greninja (edited by Paperblade) + Extremely fast + Good 103 Special Attack in tandem with Protean allow it to hit hard + Protean allows it to avoid the early game weaknesses of Water types vs. Julia and Florinia - Frail and struggles to take neutral hits - Stuck with many 60BP moves until Extrasensory at Level 49 - Best move it gets for a while is Water Pledge Hariyama (edited by NickCrash) +Access after Julia +Can tweak the ability to adjust to any type of team +Early access to Knock Off and Close Combat +Belly Drum sweep potential (easy mode for some PULSEs) +Makes good use of Assault Vest -Needs proper EV investment to maintain mediocre bulk after Samson -Limited Movepool Heracross (edited by Paperblade) +125 Attack and with 120BP STABs +Moxie +Can come with Rock Blast and maybe other, less good egg moves +85 Speed is quick enough to sweep Radomus and Luna +Extra coverage options like Bullet Seed and Night Slash -Requires you to do pretty much all of the southern half of Route 1/Aventurine Woods, which is probably the worst and most tedious sidequest in the entire game -Weak to Charlotte, Ciel, and Adrienn -85 Speed is slow enough that it struggles without EV training Incineroar (edited by iDunno) + Starter; + Useful ability in Intimidate; + Great bulk and Attack; + Great lvl up movepool (Darkest Lariat, Flare Blitz, Cross Chop, Outrage, and Bulk Up through Move Relearner), and great coverage through TMs and Move Tutors; + Workable Special Attack; - Slow, like most Gen VII mons. In fact, it has the slowest Speed stat out of all the Fire starters final forms; - Like most physical fire types, its best fire move (Flare Blitz) gives recoil. Metagross (edited by Paperblade) +135 Physical Attack +Great Physical bulk, 80/130 +Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt +Priority in Bullet Punch +Steel typing is excellent vs. Blake and Adrienn -Only obtainable after Luna and before going to Agate -Moves are both 90 accuracy -Ground and Fire weakness vs. Charlotte, Terra are difficult -Slow exp curve Mismagius (edited by Yagami) +105 in speed,sp. attack and sp. defense + immunity to 3 types because of levitate and ghost typing + Learns mystical fire and power gem by the relearner + Learns perish song which is helpful against many things + nasty plot by breeding + basically destroys Radomus if you can stop him from using trick room + also helps against Ciel and Charlotte with power gem - only 2 dusk stones are available in the overworld so competes with chandelure - you need to teach it shadow ball and perish song before evolving - only 60 in HP and defense so can't take physical hit well Nidoking (edited by Yagami) + Sheer force and life orb combo is scary.Even without life orb it is going to take out lot of pokemons with 2 hits + Can learn many TM moves and abuse it's sheer force abilty + can learn earth power and mega horn by level up.Also can learn TM surf,sludge wave,flame thrower and also learns elemental punches( I think,never needed it) + Really useful against Aya(earth power), Luna(mega horn),useful against Charlotte(earth power),Fern and Adrienn(sludge wave) + even useful against radomus because some of moves become part rock so it takes neutral damage from it + One of the few pokemons that can work as both physical and special heavy hitters without much problems + earth power isn't weakened in any fields whereas earthquake is.For example Aya's field. - without sheer force it becomes useless - It depends on TM moves a lot. - You cannot use it much before Aya. Primarina (edited by iDunno) + Starter, available right out of the bat; + Good typing, offensively and defensively; + Great Special stats; + Gets access to Moonblast, Hydro Pump, Sparkling Aria, Icy Wind and Misty Terrain through lvl up; - Underwhelming abilities; - Slow, like most Gen VII mons; - Bad physical defense Roserade (edited by Paperblade) +Can be obtained before first gym +Amazing 125 Special Attack +Technician boosted Hidden Power gives it coverage +Utility in Toxic and Leech Seed +Traded Mon gives boosted EXP -No Poison STAB option -60/65 physical bulk Silvally (edited by Zargerth) + Good availability (7th Street) + Jack of all trades: has just the right amount of bulk, power and speed to perform greatly + You can use Memories to switch Silvally's typing on the fly to whatever you might need + Even Normal-type Silvally is very useful because of STAB Explosion (not recommended on Nuzlocke runs, though) - Jack of all trades indeed, but master of none - While learns a decent amount of moves, lack of Swords Dance hurts Silally's usefulness: you can't run Flame Charge + SD- set for the time being. Swampert (edited by Filthy Casual) +Available as a starter +One of the best defensive typings in the game +An excellent attack stat paired with an excellent defense stat makes for an awesome tank +The best water starter for Julia by far, and great for a majority of the gyms +Can put in work in almost all field effects +Earthquake through level up is a huge plus +Ice punch through move tutor +A wide variety of HM-esque moves to use -Grass types are still a thing: it is useless against Florinia, Fern, and Shelly (unless you can get Rock Slide up on the Yanmega) -It is quite slow (which might actually benefit it if you use Trick Room, particularly against Radomus) -In the first half of the game, it learns a lot of special attacks, despite the fact it is more physical Tangrowth (edited by Octavius) +Great physical bulk +Top Tier Utility with Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, Grassy Terrain, Infestation +Regenerator, Leech Seed, and Giga Drain make it very difficult to bring down +Decent coverage in ancientpower/rock tomb, nature power, and later tms like bulldoze and brick break +Can go mixed offensively +Available early on -Bad special bulk -Pure Grass-typing isn't the best -other Grass-types like Roserade or Amoonguss are situationally better Toxicroak (edited by Paperblade, adjusted by Azery) + Many coverage options, like Sucker Punch + Boosted Experience from being a "Traded" pokemon + Multiple resistances, with potential Water immunity from Dry Skin + Drain Punch from event gives it some recovery + Now gets access to Bulk Up via TM + With Dry Skin, it easily 6-0s Amaria - Strongest Fighting STAB option is Brick Break - Frail and not too fast - While it's fantastic against Amaria, it doesn't fare nearly as well against Titania Vanilluxe (edited by Trufa) +Obtainable before Florinia +110 Base Sp Atk + Icy Wind can help early on +Stab Ice Beam +Weak Armor can help outspeed in some battles +Hail + Blizzard make this pokemon really reliable -Not so good movepool for coverage Volcarona (edited by EndearingCharacterTrait) +Monstrous 135 Sp. Attack and high Speed +High S. Def. and solid HP do wonders +Has lots of excellent moves in its pool - Quiver Dance, Heat Wave, Fiery Dance, Bug Buzz and Hurricane come to mind +Sweeping is disgustingly easy with Quiver Dance. It's amazing how type compatibility ceases to matter -Mystery egg exclusive -Doesn't evolve until 59 (but that's right before Luna's cap, and it can destroy her), and as Larvesta performance is very limited -Low defense, and has a hideous 4x Rock weakness -Said Rock weakness creates a debilitating Stealth Rock weakness -Elite 4 Bennett will probably use this to sweep the f*** out of the unprepared B Rank: These are Pokemon that tend to be quite decent, provide a good experience with the difficulty of the game, while not being too hard to train or win with. They tend to missing a couple of key things that make them a lot better. Spoiler Ambipom (edited by Hooligan) + 100 Physical Attack + Boost from Life Orb and Technician + 115 Speed + Powerful Fake Out with Stab and Technician + Access to Last Resort with Stab after Fake Out, depending of the moveset. Trust me, it can be good if used properly. + Access to many types of moves including Acrobatics and Elemental Punches + Obtainable in the early game if you have access to Headbutt - Fragile Defensive Stats 75/66/66 - No slighty good moves, the only good move it learns (Last Resort) requires you to use all the other moves - If you've got only Fake Out and Last Resort, you can't hit Ghost-types, so it's useless against Shade - Weak against Rock and Steel types, bad against Titania (and Hardy once his Gym is available) - Fragile life, it dies very early due to Life Orb Arcanine (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable from Police station between second and third gyms +Traded pokemon +Access to a variety of good Fire attacks +Can come with Close Combat or Morning Sun, which are both useful pending on its role +Intimidate +Good all around stats -Doesn't really excel at anything -Lacks strong coverage options outside of Close Combat and Crunch -Both of its powerful moves have longevity drawbacks, meaning it struggles to fight multiple Pokemon in one encounter Clawitzer (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable at Chrysolia Springs with Good Rod +Mega Launcher significantly boosts the power of its moves, combined with 120 Special Attack +Decent bulk +Good against Blake, Charlotte, Terra -Very slow, often struggles to take care of multiple enemies in a single battle -Even with Water/Fighting/Dark coverage, still struggles to get super effective damage on lots of enemies Clefable (edited by Paperblade) +Cosmic Power and Moonlight lets it outlast most enemies +Stored Power gives it an insanely powerful Psychic move after setting up Cosmic Power (260BP at +6/+6), allowing it to sweep entire teams +Moonblast exists as a strong STAB option +Magic Guard lets it ignore all sorts of residual damage -First obtainable at Agate Circus, over halfway through the game -Mediocre stats in general, struggles against high offense enemies that can overwhelm it -Crit hax pierce Cosmic Power Crobat (edited by NickCrash, adjusted by Azery) + Obtainable after Kiki + Incredibly fast (130 speed) + Decent bulk (85/80/80) + Gets access to Cross Poison upon evolution + Can breed with a Ducklett to get Brave Bird, making it a better Sharp Beak or Sky Plate user + Good resistances to 6 types (fighting, grass, bug, fairy, poison, ground immunity) - Takes a while to evolve - Moderate damage output - Lost Acrobatics via level up Donphan (edited by NickCrash) +Relatively early capture, which remains reliable until Charlotte +Access to Rapid Spin, Ice Shard, Rollout, Earthquake by level up and Stealth Rock +Sturdy can always come in handy (cough...Solaris...cough) -Lack of recovery moves -Relatively slow Dragalge (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable after getting the Good Rod +Adaptability Sludge Wave and Dragon Pulse +Can get Surf, Waterfall, and Dive +Naturally learns Toxic -STAB combination isn't super effective against much -Very slow -Ice and Ground weakness Espeon (edited by Paperblade) +Eevee obtained in Mysidia Railcave, right before 6th gym +Can get utility like Yawn or Wish +130 Special Attack and 110 Speed give it great offense +Boosted EXP from being "traded" mon -Lacks coverage outside Grass Knot and Hidden Power, making it weak in fights that resist or immune Psychic, such as Radomus and Luna. -65/60 physical bulk Floatzel (edited by Trufa) + Obtainable from Magma Team after Shelly (don't know if can be obtainable if sided with team aqua) + Aqua Tail STAB + Access to Crunch (move Relearner) and Ice Punch (move Tutor) + 115 Speed can work wonders + With Swift Swin it can fit really well on a Rain Dance team - Low Defenses - Ice Punch can only be accessed after Ciel - (can be more, but it really saved me a lot of times during my first play so maybe I can't see'em) Florges (edited by Paperblade) + Obtainable in Route 1 + 78/154 special bulk + 112 Special Attack with STAB Moonblast + Petal Dance + Various utility moves such as Wish and terrains - Somewhat slow - 78/68 physical bulk - Lacks coverage options Galvantula (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in Route 1 +Many options for speed control utility such as Sticky Web, Thunder Wave, and Electroweb -Electric/Bug typing makes it good vs. bosses like Radomus, Luna, and Ciel +Can also run Gastro Acid to remove the ability of some annoying PULSE pokemon, such as Swalot -Learns its high power moves somewhat late--Discharge at 54 and Bug Buzz at 60 -Lacking in coverage moves -Very frail, and can struggle to outspeed and OHKO enemies Houndoom (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable from Magma Gang questline after Shelly +Good Special Attack +Powerful STABs in Flamethrower and Dark Pulse +Nasty Plot +Okay Speed -Horrible physical bulk, can't take even neutral hits -Weakness to Fighting/Ground/Rock Jynx (edited by NickCrash) +Early access+Strong dual STAB+Fast (Spe 95)+Immunity to Water (if Dry Skin)+Might come with Nasty Plot-Useless until it evolves-Frail (65/35/95)-Limited movepool Leavanny (edited by Filthy Casual) +Available after the second gym +Relatively fast +Access to good moves such as X-Scissor and Leaf Blade +Swords dance can help it set up +Good physical attack +Great against Radomus, Terra, and Luna -A REALLY bad typing -Paper thin defenses -Horrid special attack -Doesn't do too well against some of the field effects Lilligant (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in Obsidia Garden before the 2nd gym +Access to Quiver Dance post-evolution and moves like Sleep Powder, Synthesis, and Giga Drain give it plenty of setup opportunities--with enough quiver dances it can even push through double grass resists like Fern's Roserade +Own Tempo allows it to ignore the confusion drawback of Petal Dance, giving it a spammable 120BP STAB -Petilil's stats are awful and it has poor type matchups until after Serra -You don't get a Sun Stone until you get access to the Byxbysion Grotto unless you get lucky with mining -Doesn't get non-Grass coverage outside of Hidden Power Ludicolo (edited by EtherMoth) + Can be obtained as early as Coral Ward, though overworld rain is required. + Giga Drain / Surf is a powerful STAB combo + Strong abilities in Rain Dish and Swift Swim + Can be fully evolved as soon as the Aqua/Magma gang sidequest can be started. + Nature Power is great for field shenanigans - Not friendly with any of the Fire starters - Reliant on Nature Power for most of its coverage - Needs to have Rain up to be at its best - Borderline worthless against Ciel and Bennett - You need to level up Lotad to 33 just to get Giga Drain - Without Swift Swim active, base 70 Speed can hurt Malamar (edited by NickCrash) +Obtainable after Kiki +As soon as it reaches level 50 it's competitively ready +Contrary provides wall breaking potential +Good coverage in psychic, dark, fighting -A bit slow -No resistances -X4 weakness to bug, but only Bennet makes good use of bug types after a certain point Manectric (edited by NickCrash) +Available after Julia +Can go mixed (event move: Ice Fang) +Fast for an early pokemon (Spe 105) +Exploits many field effects +Lightningrod is useful in doubles -Has to wait to get good coverage moves -Becomes mediocre between Serra and Charlotte -Quite frail (70/60/60) Medicham (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable at Apophyll Academy +60 Attack boosted by Pure Power allows it to hit very hard +High Jump Kick and Zen Headbutt great STAB combination -Lacks coverage moves until elemental punch tutor -60/75/75 bulk -80 Speed in tandem with that means it struggles vs. fast enemies -90 acc moves Meowstic (female) (edited by HongaarseBeer, adjusted by Filthy Casual) +accessible very early +high speed (104) +sucker punch and disarming voice as checks on Ghost and Dark +Misty terrain and screens for utility +SE against both Victoria and Cain +high growth because of 'traded' mon -not the best special attack stat, but not awful -very low physical attack, so kind of kills the sucker punch Noivern (edited by Filthy Casual) +The earliest dragon type you can get in the game +Very fast and very good Special Attack +Learns moves such as Dragon Pulse, Hurricane, and Boomburst +Infiltrator is an amazing ability +A nightmare against Samson -Really bad defenses -As a Noibat, it is the definition of baggage: you may need to wait a bit before you get one, as they can be found later around level 30 -Because of it's time as a Noibat, it doesn't do as well against some leaders as it could (mainly Florinia) Porygon-Z (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable after the Orphanage +Two powerful choices for damage boosting abilities in Download and Analytic, and gains a third with Adaptability in its final form +Multiple coverage options in moves like Signal Beam, Dark Pulse and Discharge +Porygon2 is bulky and has Recover, but is fairly slow +PorygonZ has access to double dances and a spectacular 135 special attack, giving it sweeping potential -Upgrade isn't obtainable until after giant Steelix, and the Dubious Disc isn't obtainable until Glitch City -Porygon is pretty weak and requires some amount of babysitting -Struggles against the multiple Fighting specialists in the game Raichu (edited by Trufa) + Obtainable before Florinia + Stab Thunderbolt + Nasty Plot + 110 Speed make it better than Ampharos (IMO) - Bad movepool, gets better if Alolan - 50 in defense makes it not so good aginas physical attackers - Pikachu eeds to be leveled up until lvl 42 to learn Thunderbolt Samurott (edited by Paperblade) +Starter +Early access to powerful STABs in Level 17 Razor Shell and Level 45 Aqua Tail make it one of the best midgame water types +Natural Swords Dance with a priority move in Aqua Jet +Strong coverage option in Megahorn -70 Speed gives it few opportunities to take advantage of its setup abilities, as many major fights after you obtain it will have many pokemon outspeeding it -Awkward offensive stats leave it feeling a bit weak without boosts Serperior (edited by Paperblade) +Starter +Bulky and very fast +Can setup with Coil and sustain via Leech Seed +Late in game, can sweep with Contrary + Leaf Storm -Lacks coverage, weak against anything that can resist Grass -Many fights in the game are unkind to Grass, exacerbating the above issue Slaking (edited by Zener) +BST of 670 as a Slaking is very scary. Every stat has base value of 100+ except for Sp atk at 95(still good) and sp def at 65. +Truant isn't much of a problem in singles when your opponents are suffering OHKOs thanks to the base attack stat of 160. +One of the few pokemon in-game that learn counter by level up.(Not sure if it can survive Solaris' Garchomp to OHKO it). +Access to moves like Covet(good for stealing Heart Scales and other nice items), Hammer Arm(Great coverage), Play Rough as a Slakoth at level 38! +Vigoroth has base speed of 90 so its outspeeding most mons in the midgame. With 80 in HP/Str/Def , it can pack a punch. +If you are trying to get play rough, the easiest way to get there is to drop Slakoth at the day care center. It learns all of its good moves from level 20-38. You should get it by Kiki/Aya. +STAB Strength is still great for neutral damage since its coming off of its monstrous attack. +Good coverage means its versatile against most gym leaders. It can even land an OHKO against Samson's pokemon with Play Rough or Counter. -If its spending time in the daycare, that's a hit to its availability. -Truant is terrible. But it hurts more in double battles, and situations where Slaking can't OHKO the opponent. -While it does have access to TMs, most TMs in the early to mid game aren't very good. -Really low Sp def is bad even though it has very good HP. -Struggles against Kiki, and will generally struggle against anything that resists Fighting/Normal. Like Shade. -Although its time as a Slakoth is short, its pretty bad. Staraptor (edited by Octavius) +One of the best offensive Flying-types in the game +120 ATK/100 SPE +Close Combat/Brave Bird plows through just about everything +Excellent abilities -available too late into the game to do much with it Starmie (double edited by Paperblade and Filthy Casual) +Typing makes it good vs. non-Gym specialists like Cain, Kiki, and Victoria +Fast with decent Special Attack +Access to utility moves like Confuse Ray and Light Screen allow it to be useful even in fights where it has a poor type matchup -However, if not gotten in Mystery Egg, can't be gotten until post-Ciel, AKA poor accessibility -60/85/85 bulk isn't the best -Needs to wait til Level 42 to evolve to get Psychic Torterra (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable as a starter +Bulky +Access to multiple recovery options like Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Giga Drain +Gets STAB Earthquake upon evolution +Extra coverage in the form of Crunch allows it to hit Psychic and Ghost types -Grass is a poor typing: Doing poorly against Shelly, Cal, Cain, Aya, Fern, Serra, Blake, Charlotte, Ciel, Corey -Its typing gives it a double weakness to Ice, a relatively common coverage type -Frequent double battles in the mid and late game make Earthquake something of a nuisance, especially alongside Ground weak partners like Cal, Aya, and Cain Typhlosion (edited by Zargerth) + Starter (available right from the beginning) or from 7th Street Pokemon black market + Fire-types in general are very good in Reborn as they perform well in most Gym battles + Learns Eruption via Heart Scale and has the stats to make good use of it - Level-up moves are mostly Fire-type moves or next to useless physical moves like Rollout - in other words, not very versatile - Lacks coverage options, as most TM moves Typhlosion could learn are also physical, although Nature and Hidden Power to an extent remedy this problem Tyrantrum (edited by iDunno) + Great lvl up movepool (Earthquake, Head Smash, Dragon Claw, Crunch, Stealth Rock, Rock Slide) + Good in-game substitute for Garchomp, since Gible isn't available, and Garchomp doesn't have acces to Earthquake, a Rock move, or a boosting move unless by TM. + Can get Dragon Dance by breeding + Rock Head allows Tyrantrum to abuse Head Smash with impunity + Good physical bulk (119) - Only accessible post Ciel - Pretty slow (71), needs Dragon Dance to do real damage to bosses - Awful special bulk (59) - While it doesn't have a 4x weakness, it's still weak to a bunch of stuff. Venusaur (edited by Norm) +Good Defensive typing with lots of earlygame resistances (Julia, Florinia, Isn't harmed by Corey Field) +Leech Seed/Sleep Powder + Growth allows for easy setup on enemies +Strong Longevity with Sleep Seed Combo +Arguably best Grass Starter +Works very well under Sun, but Has trouble making room in its movepool for Sunny Day, and Ninetales comes late if not gotten through egg (May change if Torkoal keeps its availability). -Only Physical Moves until lvl 32, which lowers its damage output -Lack of coverage outside of a possible Hidden Power type slightly hurts its moveset (but leech seed + growth or sleep powder is more than enough) -Strongest Poison Type move available is Venoshock, which simply isn't that powerful (SE Venoshock only does 15 more base to Neutral PetalDance) -Can't do much of anything to most of its countertypes, so it struggles against type disadvantage Whimsicott (edited by Octavius) +Prankster is OP +Unique Grass/Fairy typing gives lots of useful resistances +Priority Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Substitute, Tailwind, Encore and Nature Power (and even Double Team *shudders*) is really disgusting +Learns Moonblast and Giga Drain/Energy Ball by Level up +Can evolve as early as level 26 (after Giga Drain) if you have a Sun Stone -Obliterated by Reborn's many Poison-types -Held back by poor damage and bulk -It's fast, but already has Prankster -Bad case of 4 moveslot syndrome -Only useful in it's ability to 'cheese' or hax opponents Zoroark (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable after Shelly +Double Dance +Taunt +120 spatk and 105 speed allows it to hit hard and fast -60/60/60 bulk -Only coverage moves are from later TMs -AI isn't tricked by Illusion C Rank: These pokemon are very middle of the ground. They have good redeeming qualities, but also have their share of negative ones too. Spoiler Cherrim (edited by EndearingCharacterTrait) +Cherubi can be found immediately upon starting +Flower Gift gives an Attack and S. Def. boost to itself during Sun, as well as to partners in double battles (during Sun) +Evolves and learns Petal Dance at 25, which is very, very strong at such an early stage -Generally low stats -Shallow movepool, even among Grass mons (but it does get Leech Seed, so there's that) -Requires Sun to perform at its best Charizard (edited by Azery) + Available as a starter + Dragon Rage trivialises the early game + Average to Above Average stats + By the time it falls off, Charmeleon will be close to or have already evolved into Charizard + Fire Pledge is easily accessible + Sun boosted + Solar Power boosted moves are outright unwallable. It kills just about everything in it's path if Sun is up. + Sunny day is easy to set between Ninetales being in the Mystery Egg/Agate Circus and Meowstic easily being able to set it with Prankster - Huge amount of weaknesses - It's damage output is only decent without Sun up. - By late game it can be a bit slow - None of it's Mega Stones are in. Chesnaught (edited by Paperblade) +Starter +Great physical bulk +Good utility moves such as Leech Seed and Spiky Shield +Decent midgame coverage options -6 common weaknesses -Very slow, gets easily worn down Cradily (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in Spinel Town from Fossil revival +Erratic EXP curve means it requires little EXP to keep up after level 60 or so +Bulky -Poor movepool--strongest Rock move is Ancientpower -Combined with meh 81 Special Attack, has trouble finding KOs -Lacking in recovery without late game tutors or breeding, struggles to outlast enemies -Being a fossil, is somewhat unreliable to get -Slow Crawdaunt (edited by Paperblade) -Obtainable on Apophyll Island +120 Attack and Adaptability +Powerful moves like Crabhammer and Knock Off, can KO many pokemon even on a neutral hit +Learns Swords Dance -Frail and slow, with weaknesses to common types like Fighting and Electric, meaning it often struggles to find enemies it can fight Cryogonal (edited by NickCrash) +Great Spe and SpD +Nice movepool with access to Rapid Spin, Freeze-Dry and Recover -Physically frail -Hard to obtain -Has no distinct role in a team Drapion (edited by Paperblade) +Catchable in the Byxbysion Wasteland +Dark/Poison typing gives it only one weakness, Ground +Solid 95 Speed -90 Attack combined with the weakness of its moves means it struggles to find KOs unless you run a Sniper crit build, which is unreliable -70/75 special bulk is not great -Half the gyms it would resist are before you can get it Dustox (edited by Zener) +Poison/Bug typing is very good in the earlygame which throws many grass and poison types at you. +base 90 Sp Def at lvl 10 means this thing is tanking any special attack in the earlygame. 60/70 for physical bulk isn't bad either. +Its level up moves are very good. Venoshock at level 20 means it can leave a dent in Julia's team with support from base toxic spike Trubbish. It learns Light Screen, Moonlight, Bug Buzz, Psybeam, Quiver Dance. All of this by level 40! +Psychic/Bug/Poison coverage is very good for the early parts of the game. Good against Fern,Cain,Victoria,Florinia,Corey,Taka(!),Aya,Luna. +Quiver Dance by level 40 means that it can setup against Serra and Noel when the base 50 Sp Atk starts to fall off. Light Screen support is very good against Shade. +It is a surefire counter to PULSE!Tangrowths, especially since its typing and ability Shield Dust prevents it from losing SP Def from Acid Spray. -Wurmple's evolution is random, so it might take a few tries before getting Dustox. -BST of 385 is terrible for the mid to late game. -The rock/psychic weakness really hurts. Bad against Kiki(all of her mons have moves that check poison/bug types),Radomus(some psychic moves obtain a part rock type in the field) and Shelly(the only bugs it can hit for neutral damage without an SE counter are Volbeat and Illumise). -Base 65 speed really hinders it in the midgame. Eelektross (edited by NickCrash) +Earliest access +Good bulk (85/80/80) +Good offense (115/105) allows to go mixed +Levitate, Levitate, Levitate -Has to go mixed due to limited movepool -No moves till it evolves (39lvl) -Wait till 59lvl for good physical STAB -Lack of "punch tutors" (Fire/Ice/Thunder/Drain) drops it from B to C Electivire (edited by Paperblade and Filthy Casual) +123 Attack as Electivire +Very fast as Electabuzz +Light Screen and Thunder Wave +Good Electric options and Low Kick-Lacks other coverage options -65/57/85 bulk as Electabuzz -Electivire is slow and not obtainable until after Charlotte -Electabuzz's stats begin to lag behind -Mystery egg only Garbodor (edited by Hymdall) + Incredible availibility, right from the start in fact, just search the Alleys. + Acid Spray as Trubbish at level 12, an incredibly useful base 40 power move that lowers the enemy's Sp.def by two stages on hit. + Mono poison typing means it completely blanks PULSE Tangrowth, and also lowers its significant bulk with Acid Spray. + Access to Stockpile and Toxic, both regular and of the Spikes variety, means it can simply outlast certain things with healing items + Helps significantly against both Florinia, Corey, and other various fights throughout the early to midgame, right up to about Kiki. + Aftermath is a solid and useful ability, can be great for picking up a double KO in desperate situations. - Mono poison typing means you're useless against certain leaders like Shade and Radomus. - Lack of any relevant coverage sans TMs like Psychic, Thunderbolt. or even Focus Blast, of which we currently have access to none of. - Even with Stockpile, lack of any consistent recovery aside from Swallow means it's all to easy to get worn down without a heavy supply of healing items, leading it to be a cash grabber. - Other than Aftermath its other two abilities, Stench and Weak Armor, aren't great. Stench CAN be useful with its flinch chance, but Weak Armor is actively a downside. - Relatively late Evolution of 36, leaving you with Trubbish for longer than you want. - Falls off HARD after the midgame, becoming virtually useless. Poor thing. Gardevoir (edited by iDunno, adjusted by Filthy Casual) + Great Special Attack and Special Defense + Good offensive typing + Learns its strongest STAB attacks by lvl up (Moonblast and Psychic) + Trace and Synchronise are useful + The Ralts you rescue counts as a traded 'mon, so it gets boosted EXP, which counters its low lvl up rate + Probably the best special-oriented 'mon of either of its types in-game (rivalling Togekiss on the Fairy side) +/- Good/workable speed - Bad physical bulk and HP - We don't have access to most of its coverage moves yet (Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball) - Has been moved all the way back to Adrienn, so it's now only useful for two battles (Adrienn and Amaria) - Titania dominates this thing Gliscor (edited by Paperblade) +75/125/75 bulk, with access to Poison Heal Toxic Orb +Variety of coverage such as Knock Off and U-Turn +Swords Dance -Not catchable until Route 3, giving it very little usetime -Best STAB moves require either giving up held item (Acrobatics) or are 60BP -Can't evolve until after Ciel, although Gligar still has good stats -Double weakness to Blake Granbull (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable after second gym +Can come with Close Combat +Intimidate makes its average physical bulk good +Powerful coverage options -Learns moves slowly--no STAB until Level 43 -Very slow -Horrible special bulk -Struggles with many fights after its joining, such as Corey and PULSE Tangrowth Heliolisk (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in the Beryl Ward, right before Corey +Good special attack and speed +Volt Switch and Thunderbolt +Grass Knot -Lacks lots of coverage -Doesn't get a Normal STAB until Hyper Voice tutor -Horrible physical bulk Jolteon (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable in the Mysidia Railcave +130 Speed allows it to outspeed almost everything, with good 110 Special Attack +Utility moves like Yawn and Thunder Wave +Boosted experience from being "Traded" -Lacks coverage moves outside Hidden Power -Electric options consist of Discharge (poor in Double battles) and Thunder (unreliable) Kricketune (edited by HongaarseBeer) +accessible very early +good ability in Technician, especially if combined with a STAB Fury Cutter +quick exp. growth because of 'traded' +early access to Sing, which could be useful for PULSE-machines -becomes expendable very quickly, mostly an early game mon -quite fragile Lucario (edited by Paperblade) +Great movepool +110/115 offenses makes it flexible in what set it runs +Access to Powerup Punch, Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and Nasty Plot gives a variety of setup options +Movepool of Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Iron Tail, Extreme Speed, Dark Pulse, Crunch, etc. give good coverage -Not obtainable until after Ametrine City events, and even then is an egg, making it only usable for a handful of fights -70/70/70 bulk Luxray (edited by Octavius) +Guts makes it the bane of Corey's existence +The one true savior for Corey's Crobat +Did I mention the hardest gym leader in reborn bends his knee to this beast? +Available early and fully evolves at Level 30 +Very powerful in the early game -Slow and not particularly bulky (especially without Intimidate) -Terrible movepool -Quickly feels useless and outclassed Mienshao (edited by Paperblade) +Great attack and decent Speed with access to High Jump Kick +Damage further boosted by Reckless +Fake Out and Detect for double battles -First available in Route 2 -Coverage moves aren't high power until Acrobatics, relying on U-Turn and Bounce -Extremely frail Nidoqueen (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable after beating Shelly (requires Rock Smash) +Bulky Poison type allows it take advantage of Black Sludge +Powerful ability Sheer Force and access to moves like Sludge Wave, Earth Power, and Flamethrower give it good coverage -However, fairly poor offensive stats at 75 Special Attack and 76 Speed -Bad against Serra, Radomus, and Terra while not really standing out in any particular fight Rhyperior (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable early from Mystery Egg +Access to strong STABs in Earthquake and Stone Edge +140 Attack +115/130 physical bulk and Solid Rock makes it great vs. physical attackers +Great vs. Charlotte's team outside Volcarona and Ninetales, who OHKO it with their coverage moves, although even they get OHKO'd if you can bait those attacks onto your other mon -Mystery Egg is random -Rhydon evolution is kind of late--Rhyhorn is useless vs. Kiki/Victoria and generally feels weak outside that too -55 Special Defense means it takes a ton of damage against any special attack -40 Speed even in its final stage means it gets outsped by pretty much everything Sandslash (Alolan) (edited by Filthy Casual) + Yes, you can actually catch Alolan Sandslash in the wild in the ice cave by Shade's gym + Excellent abilities for any hail teams + Likely comes with the move Iron Head + Learns the powerful Icicle Crash through the move relearner - Unfortunately, it gets no level up moves to compensate - Since it's caught as an Alolan Sandslash, you miss out on Hail, which is huge for Alolan Sandslash's utility and poor speed - It's typing... why? Seismitoad (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable at Azurine Island +Solid bulk +Drain Punch -Primarily learns special moves, despite having higher physical attack -Mediocre attacking stats -Best ground move is Mud Shot, then Bulldoze from TM Slowbro (edited by Paperblade) +Great moves with Surf and Psychic +Bulky, with recovery in Slack Off +Coverage choices in Flamethrower and Grass Knot -Not obtainable until post-Ciel, giving it almost no opportunities to do anything Swoobat (edited by Paperblade) +Obtainable before first gym +Simple + Calm Mind gives powerful setup options, allowing it to smash through fights weak to its dual STAB, such as Corey, Shelly, Kiki, Victoria, and Aya +114 speed -77 special attack makes it often reliant on its setup to do things -Struggles later in the game, as its 67/55/55 bulk means it struggles to take even one hit -Ice and Dark weakness Togekiss (edited by Paperblade and Filthy Casual) +Serene Grace Ancientpower means it can randomly gain a huge boost, even one boost is often enough to do huge damage to enemy teams, two is gg +60% flinch Air Slash +Bulky, with great 120 Special Attack -Meh Speed means it likely won't outspeed many things without a speed boost -Not super useful until it becomes Togekiss, which requires a stone from Azurine Island -Mystery egg exclusive: be thankful if you get one, because that's the only way you'll be getting one on your team Weavile (edited by Paperblade and Filthy Casual) +95 attack and 115 speed as Sneasel is solid, improves greatly to 120 and 125 as Weavile +Great STAB combination +Priority move in Ice Shard +Brick Break is a solid coverage option -Can't evolve until post-Ciel -55/55/75 bulk until it evolves -Without breeding with Beartic, doesn't get an Ice move stronger than Ice Shard -You can't get it for a while without the Mystery Egg Wigglytuff (edited by The Swordsman) + Has competitive as a ability + Hyper Voice + Good movepool + High HP + If I recall correctly it is early game + Fairy/Normal typing + Good wish user - Low defenses - Slow - Wigglytuff yearns to be a special focused pokemon but many of it's moves are psychical Yanmega (edited by Octavius) +Excellent abilities in Tinted Lens and Speed Boost +One of the strongest available Bug-types +Available on Azurine Island -Doesn't get its dual-STAB moves until Level 54 and 57 without the move relearner -Poor typing, is vulnerable to most coverage moves -poor special bulk Zangoose (edited by NickCrash) +Access early +Great movepool, with priority and access to Swords Dance by level-up +Toxic Orb boost -Frail (73/60/60) -Not fast enough to outspeed any threat it can't OHKO -Eats trash D Rank: These Pokemon are on the lower side of things. They tend to have more bad things about them than good things. If you want to have a challenge with this game, I'd recommend starting here and below. Spoiler Arbok (edited by NickCrash) +Early Access+Intimidate+Access to Coil and Crunch relatively early-Lacking movepool-No defense (60/69/79) means even with Intimidate it gets hit hard-Mediocre Atk (95) with late STAB means it won't stay long in your team-No distinct role in a team Beartic (edited by Filthy Casual) +Great attack stat +Access to a wide variety of moves via breeding, such as Play Rough and Night Slash +Can learn a decent amount of HM moves +Surprisingly a beast against Terra, and does well against Ciel +Can get it after Shade (need Rock Smash) -Ice is a horrible type defensively -It naturally learns a lot of special attacks, even if it's Special Attack is dreadful -A lot of ice types (such as Walrein and Weavile) outclass it Corsola (edited by Filthy Casual) + Decent defenses + Can find it at a good level at Kiki + Has pretty decent matchups against Sera and Ciel - A lot of rock types outclass it - Not even a good user of Waterfall or Dive - Even a lot of water types outclass it Goodra (edited by Filthy Casual) + Fantastic stats + Incredible moves such as Power Whip, Outrage, and Dragon Pulse + Almost completely walls Amaria - It's obtained extremely late (around the beginning of E16 content) - Completely useless against both Titania and Adrienn - It's BoltBeam coverage isn't in the game yet: this will jump up significantly in the rankings as soon as those two TMs are in the game Magcargo (edited by NickCrash) +Good for hatching eggs faster +Good movepool, with access to Shell Smash +120 Defense -Can't kill anything with 50/90 offenses -Slow AF (Spe 30) -Horrible typing for a slow pokemon -Abilities useless outside of battle Mandibuzz (edited by Paperblade) +Mystery egg +Bulky +Tailwind allows even medium speed allies to outspeed enemies -Horrible offensive stats means not even Nasty Plot + Weak Armor activations makes it effective at killing things -Poor typing for fights such as Blake and Ciel -Mystery egg means if you have it, you don't have a better Mystery Egg option Maractus (edited by NickCrash) +Immunity to Water moves +Good physical movepool -Available after Aya -Bad stat distribution -Slow (Spe 60) -Outclassed by almost every other Grass type by the time you get it Onix (edited by Norm) + One of the first ground types available + One lvl off of Stealth rocks, which combined with sturdy, offers a good filler spot for bosses like Cal, Bennett, and Ciel. + Rock Tomb can be used to control speed on threatening mons +Screech can be good for debilitating - Onix has abysmal offenses, leaving it relegated to supporting crises - Rock Ground is a pretty awful typing for defense - No special bulk whatsoever - Steelix comes too late - Steelix also isn't very good, being outclassed by Aggron, Escavalier, and Metagross - Outclassed by Golem, who can actually contribute something else to the team other than rocks Skuntank (edited by BIGJRA) +Obtainable very early; access to poison gas for early game +Evolves opportunely and gains flamethrower yet only weak to ground, perfect for Shelly. +Can hit moderately hard with Night Slash for a few fights early/middle game. +Can outspeed some NFE foes mid-game, coupled with stench, can lead to RNG luck +Aftermath can be useful in a pinch - Strictly outclassed by Drapion at later levels, as well as basically everything else past about level 50 - Sub 70's in bulk don't allow it much livability - Does not have moveset to complement 93 in attack - Subpar special of 71 counterbalances access to Flamethrower and Acid Spray (early game) Weezing (edited by BIGJRA) + Available early, smokescreen can cheese Julia if necessary + Dependable to tank physical hits with a 65HP/120Def spread, useful for Kiki at least + It's only abilities-considered weakness, Psychic, is not super common early/mid-game + Learns Destiny Bond @ L.46, for the price of one common candy and staircase focus sash, can defeat Solaris' Garchomp!! Could further be used for Arceus. - Moveset is not particularly special for a Poison type - 90/85 offenses may be versatile, but it doesn't do anything particularly well - All the TM's that vary its movepool are available after it drops off in usefulness. Wobbuffet (edited by Filthy Casual) + Available as a Wynaut at a high level (so it's at least not completely baggage) + Counter and Mirror Coat are devastating for in game play throughs + Destiny Bond is an extremely useful move + Safeguard allows for excellent support + Shadow Tag almost guarantees a KO - Wobbuffet requires a lot of babying - Aside from HP, it's stats are horrid - You can first catch this thing at Luna, so it's already at a disadvantage - While it still can put in work for some of the gyms, this one should only be used by trainers who want to challenge themselves: this one is the ultimate example of high risk/reward Fail Rank: These are pokemon that have trouble getting anywhere. They tend to be hindered by many bad traits, and have very limited usefulness. Spoiler Gallade (edited by Paperblade, adjusted by Filthy Casual) + Close Combat off 125 Attack + Can get Destiny Bond + Various coverage options like Leaf Blade and Night Slash + Swords Dance - Horrible physical durability - Meh speed - Above factors make it difficult for it to fight multiple enemies in fights or sweep - Availability pushed all the way back to Adrienn - Does poorly against the only three main fights (even Titania walls it with the seeds) - No Galladite - Outclassed by many fighting type alternatives at this point, and especially outclassed by Gardevoir Luvdisc (edited by Filthy Casual) + Great for farming heart scales + An excellent choice for those who hate themselves - Pretty much every reason ever Unown (edited by Rabbna) + Good for EV training mixed attackers + Gives a decent amount of exp for grinding due to their tendencies of being high leveled - Only available after Corey - HORRIBLE base stats - An even worse movepool (only learns HP) - Is useless against Shelly and it just keeps sucking after that - Terribly outclassed by other psychics available at the same time or earlier (Grumpig, Mr. Mime, etc.) Sandshrew (Alolan) (edited by Filthy Casual) + They are found in the ice cave outside Shade's gym, but more common than their evolved counterparts + Learns much better moves via level up, such as the almighty Swords Dance - You don't get the ice stone to evolve it until you access enough stickers in the Department store, meaning you're stuck with a weak and useless Sandshrew for most of the game - That awful type is still there - Terrible stats other than defense (at least for a stage one Pokemon) Limbo: These Pokemon are technically available but for one reason or another cannot be given an appropriate ranking. Spoiler Hydreigon (edited by Filthy Casual) Technically, you can get this one if you can get a third piece of Dark Matter traded to your game. However, since you can only find two in game, Hydreigon currently rests here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Casual Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I have bumped this topic in order to encourage more interest. As such, I have also added some rankings. These are from my own experience. I look forward to your suggestions: Spoiler Magnezone: S +Available right before Shade +Has an excellent Special Attack stat +Can really take advantage of the field effects with its moveset (Discharge and Flash Cannon are excellent for fields) +Steel/Electric is a decent type, and the Air Balloon is available in order to help with the ground weakness +Great against many of the gyms +STURDY FTW -You are stuck with Magneton for a while, but it can still put in work -It's speed leaves much to be desired -It is garbage against Charlotte and Terra -Magnet pull kills Magnezone's potential Spoiler Swampert: A +Available as a starter +One of the best defensive typings in the game +An excellent attack stat paired with an excellent defense stat makes for an awesome tank +The best water starter for Julia by far, and great for a majority of the gyms +Can put in work in almost all field effects +Earthquake through level up is a huge plus +Ice punch through move tutor +A wide variety of HM-esque moves to use -Grass types are still a thing: it is useless against Florinia, Fern, and Shelly (unless you can get Rock Slide up on the Yanmega) -It is quite slow (which might actually benefit it if you use Trick Room, particularly against Radomus) -In the first half of the game, it learns a lot of special attacks, despite the fact it is more physical Spoiler Leavanny: B +Available after the second gym +Relatively fast +Access to good moves such as X-Scissor and Leaf Blade +Swords dance can help it set up +Good physical attack +Great against Radomus, Terra, and Luna -A REALLY bad typing -Paper thin defenses -Horrid special attack -Doesn't do too well against some of the field effects Spoiler Noivern: B +The earliest dragon type you can get in the game +Very fast and very good Special Attack +Learns moves such as Dragon Pulse, Hurricane, and Boomburst +Infiltrator is an amazing ability +A nightmare against Samson -Really bad defenses -As a Noibat, it is the definition of baggage: you may need to wait a bit before you get one, as they can be found later around level 30 -Because of it's time as a Noibat, it doesn't do as well against some leaders as it could (mainly Florinia) Spoiler Beartic: D +Great attack stat +Access to a wide variety of moves via breeding, such as Play Rough and Night Slash +Can learn a decent amount of HM moves +Surprisingly a beast against Terra, and does well against Ciel +Can get it after Shade (need Rock Smash) -Ice is a horrible type defensively -It naturally learns a lot of special attacks, even if it's Special Attack is dreadful -A lot of ice types (such as Walrein and Weavile) outclass it Edited October 18, 2017 by Filthy Casual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiasom Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 This would be a very hard thing to do though. Some teams can be dominated with support relationships that amplify each creatures' capacity. I use a Meowstic to set up barriers and take care of things weak to psychic, a Seaking for electric immunity and water & bug (megahorn) coverage, Castform to set up sun & rain and a rainbow if necessary (and in rare case, flying coverage), a chlorophill Vileplume to set up sun and Grassy Terrain (preceded by Cherrim before grassy terrain is available as it learns Sunny Day naturally), my starter Solar Power Charizard to sweep, and for the last spot I rotate Ampharos to override existing terrains with Electric Terrain and coverage, or Scraggy or Aggron for coverage and defensive properties. In the main 5, Castform supports all water, grass, and fire types with weather, and secondary effects with rainbow (Hurricane becomes a menace, Fire Pledge works both with rainbow and grassy terrain), Seaking's Lightning Rod protects Charizard and Rain Castform, Vileplume's sunny grass set up makes itself very powerful, but in case it is knocked out the set up boosts Charizard's fire power like 350% (almost nullifying double resistance) as well as lending a hand to Sun Castform, and Meowstic makes all this setting up possible with its barriers. But neither Meowstic, Cherrim, Castform, nor Seaking are particularly good by themselves (indeed, I expect the first three to live just long enough to set up, and then faint, saving me from wasting a turn of field setups switching out or using a weak attack). Vileplume isn't particularly OP without it's set up either. So how do you rank any of this? I would say my team is a B+ or an A- overall (I've yet to make this a sufficiently sandstream-proof team, general prevention and/or exploitation of sand remains elusive, I still need to adapt // I also expect Charlotte to handle with strategy with ease) - but apart from Charizard, any of these fellows barely make it to B, let alone A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KindleofDreams Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 9 minutes ago, Fiasom said: This would be a very hard thing to do though. Some teams can be dominated with support relationships that amplify each creatures' capacity. I use a Meowstic to set up barriers and take care of things weak to psychic, a Seaking for electric immunity and water & bug (megahorn) coverage, Castform to set up sun & rain and a rainbow if necessary (and in rare case, flying coverage), a chlorophill Vileplume to set up sun and Grassy Terrain (preceded by Cherrim before grassy terrain is available as it learns Sunny Day naturally), my starter Solar Power Charizard to sweep, and for the last spot I rotate Ampharos to override existing terrains with Electric Terrain and coverage, or Scraggy or Aggron for coverage and defensive properties. In the main 5, Castform supports all water, grass, and fire types with weather, and secondary effects with rainbow (Hurricane becomes a menace, Fire Pledge works both with rainbow and grassy terrain), Seaking's Lightning Rod protects Charizard and Rain Castform, Vileplume's sunny grass set up makes itself very powerful, but in case it is knocked out the set up boosts Charizard's fire power like 350% (almost nullifying double resistance) as well as lending a hand to Sun Castform, and Meowstic makes all this setting up possible with its barriers. But neither Meowstic, Cherrim, Castform, nor Seaking are particularly good by themselves (indeed, I expect the first three to live just long enough to set up, and then faint, saving me from wasting a turn of field setups switching out or using a weak attack). Vileplume isn't particularly OP without it's set up either. So how do you rank any of this? I would say my team is a B+ or an A- overall (I've yet to make this a sufficiently sandstream-proof team, general prevention and/or exploitation of sand remains elusive, I still need to adapt // I also expect Charlotte to handle with strategy with ease) - but apart from Charizard, any of these fellows barely make it to B, let alone A. Those are situational yes, but there are still pokemon who can sustain in the game really long. I think said factors being named under each current listed pokemon can give a general idea. Also, if this is going to be revived I can write up a few more reviews if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbna Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 Unown: Fail +Good for EV training mixed attackers +Gives a decent amount of exp for grinding due to their tendencies of being high leveled -Only available after Corey -HORRIBLE base stats -An even worse movepool (only learns HP) -Is useless against Shelly and it just keeps sucking after that -Terribly outclassed by other psychics available at the same time or earlier (Grumpig, Mr. Mime, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 imo Blaziken should be in a tier of its own above everything else. I was originally going to argue Magnezone down to A and say Blaziken should be alone in S, but upon reconsidering that's more because Blaziken is just so much better than everything and not because other pokemon don't fit the OP's criteria of S tier. Some of my rankings might be a bit off because of that but eh First, I'd argue Swampert up to S rank. Rock Slide and Earthquake are good moves, Muddy Water can accuracy hax some annoying fights like Mewtwo or Steelix. Water/Rock/Ground is only resisted by Breloom, Chesnaught, and Virizion, pokemon that Swampert doesn't want to be fighting anyway due to its Grass weakness. It also gets Protect, which is great in doubles because the AI will frequently throw 2 attacks at one pokemon, effectively getting you in a free attack. It is bad against Florinia and Fern, yes, but even Blaziken is bad against Ciel Most pokemon that join late and have a B/C ranking are because they're barely around Blaziken: S+ +Starter, tying it for the best availability in the game +Hits like a truck, with STAB moves like Blaze Kick and High Jump Kick and 120 base attack +Speed Boost allows it to outspeed everything if it survives 1-2 rounds +Bulk Up allows it to setup, combined with Speed Boost it can sweep several fights with little to no support +Compact move list allows it to run HMs like Rock Smash and Strength in its 4th move list, or flex a TM move like Shadow Claw or Substitute -Bad against Ciel and sort of Radomus (but still easily outspeeds Radomus's team, since they all have -speed natures, and can get KOs on things like Gallade and Metagross with its Fire STAB) -Most of its moves either have a miss chance or recoil, although running Wide Lens mostly mitigates this Starmie: A +Available from Mystery Egg, early in the game +Typing makes it good vs. non-Gym specialists like Cain, Kiki, and Victoria +Fast with decent Special Attack +Access to utility moves like Confuse Ray and Light Screen allow it to be useful even in fights where it has a poor type matchup -However, if not gotten in Mystery Egg, can't be gotten until post-Ciel -60/85/85 bulk isn't the best -Needs to wait til Level 42 to evolve to get Psychic Porygon-Z: B +Obtainable after the Orphanage +Two powerful choices for damage boosting abilities in Download and Analytic, and gains a third with Adaptability in its final form +Multiple coverage options in moves like Signal Beam, Dark Pulse and Discharge +Porygon2 is bulky and has Recover, but is fairly slow +PorygonZ has access to double dances and a spectacular 135 special attack, giving it sweeping potential -Upgrade isn't obtainable until after giant Steelix, and the Dubious Disc isn't obtainable until Glitch City -Porygon is pretty weak and requires some amount of babysitting -Struggles against the multiple Fighting specialists in the game Nidoqueen: C +Obtainable in the Byxbysion Wasteland +Bulky Poison type allows it take advantage of Black Sludge +Powerful ability Sheer Force and access to moves like Sludge Wave, Earth Power, and Flamethrower give it good coverage -However, fairly poor offensive stats at 75 Special Attack and 76 Speed -Bad against Serra, Radomus, and Terra while not really standing out in any particular fight Galvantula: B +Obtainable in Route 1 +Many options for speed control utility such as Sticky Web, Thunder Wave, and Electroweb -Electric/Bug typing makes it good vs. bosses like Radomus, Luna, and Ciel +Can also run Gastro Acid to remove the ability of some annoying PULSE pokemon, such as Swalot -Learns its high power moves somewhat late--Discharge at 54 and Bug Buzz at 60 -Lacking in coverage moves -Very frail, and can struggle to outspeed and OHKO enemies Torterra: B +Obtainable as a starter +Bulky +Access to multiple recovery options like Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Giga Drain +Gets STAB Earthquake upon evolution +Extra coverage in the form of Crunch allows it to hit Psychic and Ghost types -Grass is a poor typing: Doing poorly against Shelly, Cal, Cain, Aya, Fern, Serra, Blake, Charlotte, Ciel, Corey -Its typing gives it a double weakness to Ice, a relatively common coverage type -Frequent double battles in the mid and late game make Earthquake something of a nuisance, especially alongside Ground weak partners like Cal, Aya, and Cain Chandelure: A +Insane 145 special attack +Fire/Ghost STAB is nearly completely unresisted +Useful status moves like Confuse Ray and Will-o-Wisp +Good against Bennett, Fern and Blake, and Flash Fire allows it to ignore Charlotte's Heat Waves -Obtainable after Radomus -Poor against Luna and Terra Dragalge: B +Obtainable after getting the Good Rod +Adaptability Sludge Wave and Dragon Pulse +Can get Surf, Waterfall, and Dive +Naturally learns Toxic -STAB combination isn't super effective against much -Very slow -Ice and Ground weakness Mienshao: C +Great attack and decent Speed with access to High Jump Kick +Damage further boosted by Reckless +Fake Out and Detect for double battles -First available in Route 2 -Coverage moves aren't high power until Acrobatics, relying on U-Turn and Bounce -Extremely frail Slowbro: C +Great moves with Surf and Psychic +Bulky, with recovery in Slack Off +Coverage choices in Flamethrower and Grass Knot -Not obtainable until post-Ciel, giving it almost no opportunities to do anything Delphox: S +Starter +Fire/Psychic STAB is insane, being SE vs. all 3 rivals as well as several other fights throughout the game +Even against Gyms super effective against it, frequently its STAB combo allows it to get in a KO or two (Shade's Trevenant and Doublade, Terra's Nidoking, Luna's Bisharp) +114 SpAtk and 104 Speed +Utility moves like Will-o-Wisp and Light Screen +Coverage from Grass Knot or Shadow Ball -Abilities are meh, Magician requires you to not use a held item to benefit -Rock, Dark, and Ground weaknesses means it frequently gets hit by coverage moves Mamoswine: S +Obtainable before 4th gym +130 Attack +Tons of attack with STAB Earthquake +Priority in Ice Shard +Amazing STAB combination +Weaknesses compensated for by Thick Fat -Lacks resistances and isn't the fastest, so gets worn down -Earthquake is iffy in double battles -Needs to breed to get a stronger Ice move than Ice Fang Toxicroak: B +Many coverage options, like Sucker Punch +Boosted Experience from being a "Traded" pokemon +Multiple resistances, with potential Water immunity from Dry Skin +Drain Punch from event gives it some recovery -Strongest Fighting STAB option is Brick Break -Frail and not too fast Crawdaunt: C -Obtainable on Apophyll Island +120 Attack and Adaptability +Powerful moves like Crabhammer and Knock Off, can KO many pokemon even on a neutral hit +Learns Swords Dance -Frail and slow, with weaknesses to common types like Fighting and Electric, meaning it often struggles to find enemies it can fight Jolteon: C +Obtainable in the Mysidia Railcave +130 Speed allows it to outspeed almost everything, with good 110 Special Attack +Utility moves like Yawn and Thunder Wave +Boosted experience from being "Traded" -Lacks coverage moves outside Hidden Power -Electric options consist of Discharge (poor in Double battles) and Thunder (unreliable) Cradily: C +Obtainable in Spinel Town from Fossil revival +Erratic EXP curve means it requires little EXP to keep up after level 60 or so +Bulky -Poor movepool--strongest Rock move is Ancientpower -Combined with meh 81 Special Attack, has trouble finding KOs -Lacking in recovery without late game tutors or breeding, struggles to outlast enemies -Being a fossil, is somewhat unreliable to get -Slow Chesnaught: C +Starter +Great physical bulk +Good utility moves such as Leech Seed and Spiky Shield +Decent midgame coverage options -6 common weaknesses -Very slow, gets easily worn down Granbull: C +Obtainable after second gym +Can come with Close Combat +Intimidate makes its average physical bulk good +Powerful coverage options -Learns moves slowly--no STAB until Level 43 -Very slow -Horrible special bulk -Struggles with many fights after its joining, such as Corey and PULSE Tangrowth Diggersby: A +Obtainable in Rhodochrine Jungle +Huge Power makes its poor 56 Attack amazing +Earthquake at Level 57 +Swords Dance + STAB Quick Attack -Average bulk and speed -Fighting and Ice weakness means it often faces threat of OHKO Houndoom: B +Obtainable from Magma Gang questline after Shelly +Good Special Attack +Powerful STABs in Flamethrower and Dark Pulse +Nasty Plot +Okay Speed -Horrible physical bulk, can't take even neutral hits -Weakness to Fighting/Ground/Rock Clawitzer: B +Obtainable at Chrysolia Springs with Good Rod +Mega Launcher significantly boosts the power of its moves, combined with 120 Special Attack +Decent bulk +Good against Blake, Charlotte, Terra -Very slow, often struggles to take care of multiple enemies in a single battle -Even with Water/Fighting/Dark coverage, still struggles to get super effective damage on lots of enemies Metagross: A +135 Physical Attack +Great Physical bulk, 80/130 +Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt +Priority in Bullet Punch +Steel typing is excellent vs. Blake and Adrienn -Only obtainable after Luna and before going to Agate -Moves are both 90 accuracy -Ground and Fire weakness vs. Charlotte, Terra are difficult -Slow exp curve Greninja: A +Extremely fast +Good 103 Special Attack in tandem with Protean allow it to hit hard +Protean allows it to avoid the early game weaknesses of Water types vs. Julia and Florinia -Frail and struggles to take neutral hits -Stuck with 60BP moves until Extrasensory at Level 49 Arcanine: B +Obtainable from Police station between second and third gyms +Traded pokemon +Access to a variety of good Fire attacks +Can come with Close Combat or Morning Sun, which are both useful pending on its role +Intimidate +Good all around stats -Doesn't really excel at anything -Lacks strong coverage options outside of Close Combat and Crunch -Both of its powerful moves have longevity drawbacks, meaning it struggles to fight multiple Pokemon in one encounter Mandibuzz: D +Mystery egg +Bulky +Tailwind allows even medium speed allies to outspeed enemies -Horrible offensive stats means not even Nasty Plot + Weak Armor activations makes it effective at killing things -Poor typing for fights such as Blake and Ciel -Mystery egg means if you have it, you don't have a better Mystery Egg option Gallade: C +Obtainable after Aya +Close Combat off 125 Attack +Can get Destiny Bond, allowing the cheesing of fights like Swalot +Various coverage options like Leaf Blade and Night Slash +Swords Dance -Horrible physical durability -Meh speed -Above factors make it difficult for it to fight multiple enemies in fights or sweep Durant: A +Obtainable in Tanzan Depths, after Serra +Steel typing is great vs. Blake and Adrienn +Bug types great vs. Radomus and Luna +Hustle off 109 Attack means it hits like a truck +Good 109 Speed -Horrible special bulk, 58/48 -OHKO'd by anything Charlotte has, and both STABs are resisted -Hustle makes its accuracy unreliable Clefable: B +Cosmic Power and Moonlight lets it outlast most enemies +Stored Power gives it an insanely powerful Psychic move after setting up Cosmic Power (260BP at +6/+6), allowing it to sweep entire teams +Moonblast exists as a strong STAB option +Magic Guard lets it ignore all sorts of residual damage -First obtainable at Agate Circus, over halfway through the game -Mediocre stats in general, struggles against high offense enemies that can overwhelm it -Crit hax pierce Cosmic Power Serperior: B +Starter +Bulky and very fast +Can setup with Coil and sustain via Leech Seed +Late in game, can sweep with Contrary + Leaf Storm -Lacks coverage, weak against anything that can resist Grass -Many fights in the game are unkind to Grass, exacerbating the above issue Heliolisk: C +Obtainable in the Beryl Ward, right before Corey +Good special attack and speed +Volt Switch and Thunderbolt +Grass Knot -Lacks lots of coverage -Doesn't get a Normal STAB until Hyper Voice tutor -Horrible physical bulk Togekiss: S +Mystery Egg +Serene Grace Ancientpower means it can randomly gain a huge boost, even one boost is often enough to do huge damage to enemy teams, two is gg +60% flinch Air Slash +Bulky, with great 120 Special Attack -Meh Speed means it likely won't outspeed many things without a speed boost -Not super useful until it becomes Togekiss, which requires a stone from Azurine Island Zoroark: B +Obtainable after Shelly +Double Dance +Taunt +120 spatk and 105 speed allows it to hit hard and fast -60/60/60 bulk -Only coverage moves are from later TMs -AI isn't tricked by Illusion Medicham: B +Obtainable at Apophyll Academy +60 Attack boosted by Pure Power allows it to hit very hard +High Jump Kick and Zen Headbutt great STAB combination -Lacks coverage moves until elemental punch tutor -60/75/75 bulk -80 Speed in tandem with that means it struggles vs. fast enemies -90 acc moves Seismitoad: C +Obtainable at Azurine Island +Solid bulk +Drain Punch -Primarily learns special moves, despite having higher physical attack -Mediocre attacking stats -Best ground move is Mud Shot, then Bulldoze from TM Feraligatr: A +Starter +Sheer Force and 105 Attack boosts Ice Fang and Crunch +Agility allows it to boost its 78 base Speed +85/100/83 bulk +Benefits hugely from Life Orb -No Physical Water STAB until Aqua Tail, which isn't Sheer Force boosted; needs to wait for Waterfall Roserade: A +Can be obtained before first gym +Amazing 125 Special Attack +Technician boosted Hidden Power gives it coverage +Utility in Toxic and Leech Seed +Traded Mon gives boosted EXP -No Poison STAB option -60/65 physical bulk Electivire: C +Mystery Egg +123 Attack as Electivire +Very fast as Electabuzz +Light Screen and Thunder Wave +Good Electric options and Low Kick-Lacks other coverage options -65/57/85 bulk as Electabuzz -Electivire is slow and not obtainable until after Charlotte -Electabuzz's stats begin to lag behind Florges: B +Obtainable in Route 1 +78/154 special bulk +112 Special Attack with STAB Moonblast +Petal Dance +Various utility moves such as Wish and terrains -Somewhat slow -78/68 physical bulk -Lacks coverage options Gliscor: B +75/125/75 bulk, with access to Poison Heal Toxic Orb +Variety of coverage such as Knock Off and U-Turn +Swords Dance -Not catchable until Route 3, giving it very little usetime -Best STAB moves require either giving up held item (Acrobatics) or are 60BP -Can't evolve until after Ciel, although Gligar still has good stats -Double weakness to Blake Lucario: C +Great movepool +110/115 offenses makes it flexible in what set it runs +Access to Powerup Punch, Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and Nasty Plot gives a variety of setup options +Movepool of Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Iron Tail, Extreme Speed, Dark Pulse, Crunch, etc. give good coverage -Not obtainable until after Ametrine City events, and even then is an egg, making it only usable for a handful of fights -70/70/70 bulk Swoobat: C +Obtainable before first gym +Simple + Calm Mind gives powerful setup options, allowing it to smash through fights weak to its dual STAB, such as Corey, Shelly, Kiki, Victoria, and Aya +114 speed -77 special attack makes it often reliant on its setup to do things -Struggles later in the game, as its 67/55/55 bulk means it struggles to take even one hit -Ice and Dark weakness Weavile: B +Mystery Egg +95 attack and 115 speed as Sneasel is solid, improves greatly to 120 and 125 as Weavile +Great STAB combination +Priority move in Ice Shard +Brick Break is a solid coverage option -Can't evolve until post-Ciel -55/55/75 bulk until it evolves -Without breeding with Beartic, doesn't get an Ice move stronger than Ice Shard Amoonguss: A +Catchable on Azurine Island +Poison typing lets it use Black Sludge +114/70/80 bulk and Synthesis make it hard to kill +Tons of utility moves like Toxic, Spore, and Leech Seed +Clear Smog can shutdown things that boost +Regenerator -Mostly beats things by whittling them down and outlasting, so frequently struggles against offensively oriented pokemon -One of the worst cases of 4MSS in Reborn, its levelup list is so good that you want to have 5-6 of its available moves -30 speed means it's always going to be outsped, and thus struggles heavily in fights like Charlotte and Blake where it is at a type disadvantage Aggron: A +Catchable in the deeper unground railnet, post-Aya +STABs are great vs. Serra, Bennett, Blake, Charlotte, Ciel, and Adrienn +180 Defense +Sturdy allows it to always get at least one hit in -Awful against Samson and Terra due to double weakness -70/60 special bulk -50 Speed Cinccino: C +Catchable in Chrysolia Forest +Skill Link effectively gives it 125BP Rock, Grass, and Normal moves +115 Speed -95 Attack means even with the power of its moves, it can frequently fail to get KOs -75/60/60 bulk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Casual Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 I finally updated this list after what feels like forever! Also, just so you know, @Paperblade, I edited a couple of your suggestions (mainly those pertaining to Mystery Egg exclusives), as availability must be taken into consideration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) imo it's probably best for pokemon like starters/mystery egg where you can only get 1 but it requires not getting another pokemon for an extended period of time to have a split ranking, one where if you get it at the earlier point and another for where it's more freely given (for example, Delphox could be S rank as starter but like C rank if you wait to get the one from the Water Treatment Center) I know that for the maingame ingame tier lists, they will split pokemon based on if you have a trade or not for trade evos like abra/machop/gastly/etc. so this would be the same concept Edited October 13, 2017 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome_Complex Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hmmm Feraligtr seems more B-tier ti me personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 imo the only thing keeping Feraligatr out of S-rank is its lack of good Water STAB until Aqua Tail/Waterfall. Ice Fang means it can still contribute vs. Florinia/Fern (and also covers Fern's non-Grass mons--Haxorus, Krookodile, and Scyther are all weak to it). The only fight where you really feel the lack of a good Water move is Cal, but in turn you get a 104BP Dark move for Shade and Radomus. For what it's worth, I'm assuming that the Strength glitch is allowed to get the Celestinine Mountain Life Orb (since you can't get it at all otherwise afaik), which probably makes a difference in its ability to kill stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterans Azeria Posted October 13, 2017 Veterans Share Posted October 13, 2017 Excadrill - A/S rank + Mystery Egg (Available and fully evolvable pre Corey) + It's entire movepool is available around the time you get the egg + 135 attack + Sand Rush and Mold Breaker + Natural Earthquake, Swords Dance, Rock Slide and Sandstorm + With minimum support it can quite literally sweep basically every boss in the game, no joke. + It's best partner, Hippowdon is available relatively early too - Mystery Egg(only a 1/18 chance of being available) - Poor bulk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I suggest putting the NFE form if you are going to be stuck with it for more than half of the game. You can add the evolution as a +, indicating after which leader it can evolve. Notable examples are Magnezone (only available as such after Luna), and Mamoswine (since the move relearner's house is accessible after Aya, not Shelly. All Mystery Egg pokemon should be placed with some caution, as they are effectively unavailable. If you get it early, fine. But 17/18 won't, and not all 18 of them are worthy. That said, Excadrill deserves the S rank, as an early access is a game-changer. Rhydon on the other hand, does not. It's strong AF, especially as Rhyperior. However, by the time you get access to the protector item, Rhydon can't keep up with the other Rock/Ground types (not to mention alternatives to Rock). I'd put it at B. Opinions on given mons Granbull Mamoswine Mamoswine: A +130 Attack +Tons of attack with STAB Earthquake +Priority in Ice Shard +Amazing STAB combination +Fire weakness and Ice neutrality nullified by Thick Fat -Obtainable after Aya -Earthquake is iffy in double battles -Needs to breed to get a stronger Ice move than Ice Fang Granbull: B +Good early Fairy +Can come with Close Combat +Useful in doubles +Powerful coverage options -No STAB until Level 43 -Very slow A few days ago I started my 4th playthrough, in which I use pokemon I seldom use in competitive, and never before in Reborn. I'll give a small description for each (that means, not the format), since it's a described experience and the playthrough isn't over. (also no time to be unbiased) Here is my view on how they fare. Serperior - B Crobat - A Obtainable after Kiki Incredibly fast (130 Speed) Decent bulk (85/80/80) Early access to A-crobatics, and Leech Seed (soon to be boosted) Good resistances to 6 types: Fighting, Grass, Bug, Fairy, Poison, Ground (immune) Takes a while to evolve (Ep17's fixed economy won't allow it to shine as early) Moderate damage output (and can't hold item) Malamar - B Obtainable after Kiki As soon as it reaches 50lvl it's competitively ready Contrary provides Wallbreaking potential A bit slow No resistances Good coverage in Psychic, Dark, Fighting X4 weakness to Bug, but only Bennet makes good use of Bug types after a certain point Starter -- obtainable late-game It has to sit out a few fights, due to it receiving Leaf Storm quite late. It lacks coverage before the tutors in 7th st and Agate. It can compensate with Nature Power, Leech Seed and the occasional exploitation of the field effects More to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Casual Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Entries have been updated! Also, @NickCrash, forgive me that I didn't add that Crobat learns Leech Life early. Since it's not quite E17 yet, I decided not to add that. Having said that, this leads to something else: When E17 comes out, entries will be updated to reflect the new episode! We'll make sure to ensure the rankings are properly updated then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Certainly. I added that for future reference, since much will need to be discussed. I'm glad I could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongaarseBeer Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I'm new to this, so bear that in mind when contemplating my additions Kricketune --> C (mostly because it just sucks after the first several gyms) +accessible very early +good ability in Technician, especially if combined with a STAB Fury Cutter +quick exp. growth because of 'traded' +early access to Sing, which could be useful for PULSE-machines -becomes expendable very quickly, mostly an early game mon -quite fragile Meowstic --> B +accessible very early +male with prankster to set up screens, or any gender with Infiltrator +high speed (104) +sucker punch and disarming voice as checks on Ghost and Dark +Misty terrain and screens for utility +SE against both Victoria and Cain +high growth because of 'traded' mon -not the best special attack stat, but not awful -very low physical attack, so kind of kills the sucker punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDunno Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Tyrantrum - B rank + Great lvl up movepool (Earthquake, Head Smash, Dragon Claw, Crunch, Stealth Rock, Rock Slide) + Good in-game substitute for Garchomp, since Gible isn't available, and Garchomp doesn't have acces to Earthquake, a Rock move, or a boosting move unless by TM. + Can get Dragon Dance by breeding + Rock Head allows Tyrantrum to abuse Head Smash with impunity + Good physical bulk (119) - Only accessible post Ciel - Pretty slow (71), needs Dragon Dance to do real damage to bosses - Awful special bulk (59) - While it doesn't have a 4x weakness, it's still weak to a bunch of stuff. Goodra - A or B rank + Great special bulk + Can be a physical, special, or mixed attacker + Good on rain teams (Hydration and Sap Sipper) + Gooey makes it useful to cripple a foe's physical sweeper, and then revenge kill it. +/- Decent speed (80) - Only available post Adrienn - Bad physical bulk (70) - Slow leveling rate - Can be a pain to evolve, since it depends on rain in the overworld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickCrash Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I have returned with some more. Since opinions may differ, we should discuss on each other's ratings to find a consensus. Donphan - B +Relatively early capture, which remains reliable until Charlotte +Access to Rapid Spin, Ice Shard, Rollout, Earthquake by level up and Stealth Rock +Sturdy can always come in handy (cough...Solaris...cough) -Lack of recovery moves -Relatively slow Hariyama - A +Access after Julia +Can tweak the ability to adjust to any type of team +Early access to Knock Off and Close Combat +Belly Drum sweep potential (easy mode for some PULSEs) +Makes good use of Assault Vest -Needs proper EV investment to maintain mediocre bulk after Samson -Limited Movepool Zangoose - C +Access early +Great movepool, with priority and access to Swords Dance by level-up +Toxic Orb boost -Frail (73/60/60) -Not fast enough to outspeed any threat it can't OHKO -Eats trash I realized the lower tiers need some love. Magcargo - D +Good for hatching eggs faster +Good movepool, with access to Shell Smash +120 Defense -Can't kill anything with 50/90 offenses -Slow AF (Spe 30) -Horrible typing for a slow pokemon -Abilities useless outside of battle Maractus - D +Immunity to Water moves +Good physical movepool -Available after Aya -Bad stat distribution -Slow (Spe 60) -Outclassed by almost every other Grass type by the time you get it Cryogonal - C +Great Spe and SpD +Nice movepool with access to Rapid Spin, Freeze-Dry and Recover -Physically frail -Hard to obtain -Has no distinct role in a team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Goodra should probably be unranked for now, since you can't get it until after all current major battles. There's not really anything to actually... do with it. Samurott - B Spoiler +Starter +Early access to powerful STABs in Level 17 Razor Shell and Level 45 Aqua Tail make it one of the best midgame water types +Natural Swords Dance with a priority move in Aqua Jet +Strong coverage option in Megahorn -70 Speed gives it few opportunities to take advantage of its setup abilities, as many major fights after you obtain it will have many pokemon outspeeding it -Awkward offensive stats leave it feeling a bit weak without boosts Lilligant - B Spoiler +Obtainable in Obsidia Garden before the 2nd gym +Access to Quiver Dance post-evolution and moves like Sleep Powder, Synthesis, and Giga Drain give it plenty of setup opportunities--with enough quiver dances it can even push through double grass resists like Fern's Roserade +Own Tempo allows it to ignore the confusion drawback of Petal Dance, giving it a spammable 120BP STAB -Petilil's stats are awful and it has poor type matchups until after Serra -You don't get a Sun Stone until you get access to the Byxbysion Grotto unless you get lucky with mining -Doesn't get non-Grass coverage outside of Hidden Power Rhyperior - C/B Spoiler +Obtainable early from Mystery Egg +Access to strong STABs in Earthquake and Stone Edge +140 Attack +115/130 physical bulk and Solid Rock makes it great vs. physical attackers +Great vs. Charlotte's team outside Volcarona and Ninetales, who OHKO it with their coverage moves, although even they get OHKO'd if you can bait those attacks onto your other mon -Mystery Egg is random -Rhydon evolution is kind of late--Rhyhorn is useless vs. Kiki/Victoria and generally feels weak outside that too -55 Special Defense means it takes a ton of damage against any special attack -40 Speed even in its final stage means it gets outsped by pretty much everything tbh only reason I consider this for B is it felt really strong vs. Charlotte, which is one of the more annoying fights in the game. However that might have just been the rest of my team sucking. idk, I don't train backup pokemon or rotate stuff depending on the fight because I hate grinding grand hall trainers/clowns, so I just EV train stuff after I get Power items and try to power through that way. fwiw mine has max spdef EVs/IVs and still felt super squish vs. special attacks Drapion - C Spoiler +Catchable in the Byxbysion Wasteland +Dark/Poison typing gives it only one weakness, Ground +Solid 95 Speed -90 Attack combined with the weakness of its moves means it struggles to find KOs unless you run a Sniper crit build, which is unreliable -70/75 special bulk is not great -Half the gyms it would resist are before you can get it Espeon - B Spoiler +Eevee obtained in Mysidia Railcave, right before 6th gym +Can get utility like Yawn or Wish +130 Special Attack and 110 Speed give it great offense +Boosted EXP from being "traded" mon -Lacks coverage outside Grass Knot and Hidden Power, making it weak in fights that resist or immune Psychic, such as Radomus and Luna. -65/60 physical bulk Heracross - B/A Spoiler +125 Attack and with 120BP STABs +Moxie +Can come with Rock Blast and maybe other, less good egg moves +85 Speed is quick enough to sweep Radomus and Luna +Extra coverage options like Bullet Seed and Night Slash -Requires you to do pretty much all of the southern half of Route 1/Aventurine Woods, which is probably the worst and most tedious sidequest in the entire game -Weak to Charlotte, Ciel, and Adrienn -85 Speed is slow enough that it struggles without EV training +Heracronite maybe for whenever we get Mega Ring Edited October 18, 2017 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monochrome_Complex Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I notice this to be a reoccurring thing in regards to serperior, and another reason discussing the NFE forms is important. Contrary is a double-edged sword for snivy line pre-leaf storm as it can't take advantage of growth or coil due to it, meaning it has to rely on stat drops from the opponent if wants to do any real damage early on. While this can work in some battles, contrary can actually be a hindrance at times and further stifle snivy's already unimpressive offense. Snivy relies on buffs for its damage and contrary can potentially lock you out of doing that which is why it may be better off to start off with overgrow snivy then change its ability via capsule later on once it gets leaf storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Casual Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 The list has been edited! As a heads up @iDunno, the only one I left off is Goodra, as it comes at the end of E16. However, when E17 starts, Goodra will be put on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDunno Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 @Filthy CasualOkey dokey. Also, surprised no one did this yet: Gardevoir - A or S Rank + Great Special Attack and Special Defense + Good offensive typing + Learns its strongest STAB attacks by lvl up (Moonblast and Psychic) + Trace and Synchronise are useful + Available after Aya (relatively early) + The Ralts you rescue counts as a traded 'mon, so it gets boosted EXP, which counters its low lvl up rate + Probably the best special-oriented 'mon of either of its types in-game (rivalling Togekiss on the Fairy side) +/- Good/workable speed - Bad physical bulk and HP - We don't have access to most of its coverage moves yet (Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Energy Ball) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagami Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 I am not good with these usually.But let's see: Mismagimus(shiny sprite looks awesome): Spoiler A/B rank +105 in speed,sp. attack and sp. defense + immunity to 3 types because of levitate and ghost typing + Learns mystical fire and power gem by the relearner + Learns perish song which is helpful against many things + nasty plot by breeding + basically destroys Radomus if you can stop him from using trick room + also helps against Ciel and Charlotte with power gem - only 2 dusk stones are available in the overworld so competes with chandelure - you need to teach it shadow ball and perish song before evolving - only 60 in HP and defense so can't take physical hit well Archeops: Spoiler A rank +has 140 in attack and 110 in speed basically one of the best fast physical sweeper +Learns acrobatics at level 28 so 110 bp stab move +also learns dragon claw,rock slide,crunch, u turn and endeavor by level up.Even some dragon type can't learn dragon claw by level up. + destroys Charlotte,Samson and Ciel with only acrobatics and rock slide.For Charlotte's gym battle let it hold wide lens for Samson's gym battle let it hold metronome. + flying gem boosted acrobatics does insane damage and U turn to get out tough situation. - defeatist ability - Only 65 in defense and special defense. - TM earthquake is not available yet so steel,rock and electric type are threats. If it didn't have that bad ability,it would be in S tier. Nidoking: Spoiler A Rank + Sheer force and life orb combo is scary.Even without life orb it is going to take out lot of pokemons with 2 hits + Can learn many TM moves and abuse it's sheer force abilty + can learn earth power and mega horn by level up.Also can learn TM surf,sludge wave,flame thrower and also learns elemental punches( I think,never needed it) + Really useful against Aya(earth power), Luna(mega horn),useful against Charlotte(earth power),Fern and Adrienn(sludge wave) + even useful against radomus because some of moves become part rock so it takes neutral damage from it + One of the few pokemons that can work as both physical and special heavy hitters without much problems + earth power isn't weakened in any fields whereas earthquake is.For example Aya's field. - without sheer force it becomes useless - It depends on TM moves a lot. - You cannot use it much before Aya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Azumarill: A +Excellent typing +has Huge Power and good bulk +Ridiculous early stab in Aqua Tail and Play Rough +Available very early as mystery egg +One of the best Water-types throughout the course of the entire game -Tricky to evolve -Needs Aqua Jet bred onto it to compensate for poor Speed Staraptor: B +One of the best offensive Flying-types in the game +120 ATK/100 SPE +Close Combat/Brave Bird plows through just about everything +Excellent abilities -available too late into the game to do much with it Alakazam: C +135 Sp. ATK/120 SPE is a lethal combination +Excellent revenge killer -Lots of Fighting- and Poison- types in Reborn, but you don't get Zam until after most of them -Horrid movepool in Psychic, Charge Beam, and Hidden Power, only alleviated somewhat by Grass Knot and Dazzling Gleam end-game -Magic Guard not as useful in playthroughs as it is in competitive battling -Lucky to ever survive a single hit -Generally outclassed by movepools and bulk of the other Psychic-types in the game Tangrowth: A +Great physical bulk +Top Tier Utility with Knock Off, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, Grassy Terrain, Infestation +Regenerator, Leech Seed, and Giga Drain make it very difficult to bring down +Decent coverage in ancientpower/rock tomb, nature power, and later tms like bulldoze and brick break +Can go mixed offensively +Available early on -Bad special bulk -Pure Grass-typing isn't the best -other Grass-types like Roserade or Amoonguss are situationally better Yanmega: C +Excellent abilities in Tinted Lens and Speed Boost +One of the strongest available Bug-types +Available on Azurine Island -Doesn't get its dual-STAB moves until Level 54 and 57 without the move relearner -Poor typing, is vulnerable to most coverage moves -poor special bulk Luxray: C +Guts makes it the bane of Corey's existence +The one true savior for Corey's Crobat +Did I mention the hardest gym leader in reborn bends his knee to this beast? +Available early and fully evolves at Level 30 +Very powerful in the early game -Slow and not particularly bulky (especially without Intimidate) -Terrible movepool -Quickly feels useless and outclassed Whimsicott: B +Prankster is OP +Unique Grass/Fairy typing gives lots of useful resistances +Priority Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Substitute, Tailwind, Encore and Nature Power (and even Double Team *shudders*) is really disgusting +Learns Moonblast and Giga Drain/Energy Ball by Level up +Can evolve as early as level 26 (after Giga Drain) if you have a Sun Stone -Obliterated by Reborn's many Poison-types -Held back by poor damage and bulk -It's fast, but already has Prankster -Bad case of 4 moveslot syndrome -Only useful in it's ability to 'cheese' or hax opponents Also I would certainly give Crawdaunt at least B tier. You don't have a single Water-type in B tier or above that isn't a starter or Clawitzer, and Crawdaunt is (arguably) better than Clawitzer. You get Crawdaunt way before Clawitzer, on Apophyll Beach, and Adaptability Aqua Jet gives Crawdaunt guaranteed viability, especially if you don't have another priority move on your team. This is especially prevalent late-game, where people like Blake and Charlotte are carrying a lot of coverage moves (Solarbeam and Energy Ball on multiple members of Charlotte's team). So if Clawitzer is B tier, which I don't disagree with, then Crawdaunt should certainly be B tier. I would also argue Swampert and Heracross for S tier. Swampert is the best Water starter you can take: insane natural movepool, insane defensive typing, able to 1v1 just about anything without a grass move. It's hard to go wrong with Swampert. And for Heracross, the only downside is that ridiculous quest to actually obtain it. Close Combat, Megahorn, and Moxie are S tier traits, and it isn't outclassed by any other Bug or Fighting type in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) fwiw I consider mystery egg Staryu A rank, but OP moved it down because mystery egg is RNG My issue with Crawdaunt when I used it was it was outsped by most things (despite being 252+ investment) and frequently got OHKO'd, especially since its Dark typing gave it weakness to Fighting and Fairy coverage moves. 63/55 special bulk is terrible, and 55 speed means it gets outsped by a lot of things. Check this: Spoiler -over half of Cal's pokemon will outspeed it with a supereffective move (Infernape, Charizard, Blaziken, and Magmortar) -it will get outsped by everything Victoria and Kiki have. -It's solid vs. Aster and Eclipse, but its slow speed means it tends to take lots of unwanted hits in double battles. -Taka it is bad against everything but Gligar, who is faster and has U-Turn. -It's good against Cain, whose Samurott, Haunter, and Muk lack stuff good against it -The only Fern pokemon it's good against is Krokorok, which runs Thunder Fang. -Aya is a double battle so it's iffy, but her AI likes to spam hazards for the field or something so we'll say it's solid here. -Useless against Sigmund, who outspeeds and spams Discharge. -It's mixed vs. Sirius--it resists all of Chandelure's moves and is good against Probopass, and Seviper lacks powerful moves. -All of Bennett's pokemon are super effective against Crawdaunt, and many of them will outspeed it. -Half of Serra's team runs Signal Beam or Energy Ball. -It can't setup on Noel because Wigglytuff runs Dazzling Gleam, and literally everything on Noel's team has something supereffective vs. water/dark and is really fast. Despite this, against Swellow you can bait U-Turn (which probably won't OHKO) and OHKO some random thing that comes out after or something -Next Fern rematch you're good against Fraxure, who is his weakest mon, and struggle against everything else. -The next Cain fight adds a Galvantula, Nidoking still has Fighting coverage and has Megahorn on top of that, Gengar has Focus Blast now. Muk and Absol are free though, as is Samurott if you can OHKO it (it will Revenge KO otherwise, and note Samurott is Cain's bulkiest mon). -Radomus is one of its best fights, as all his pokemon run -speed natures and Dark is SE vs. most of his mons. However, it still needs something that will protect it from the mon it doesn't OHKO, as everything but Metagross and Slowking have a powerful Fighting or Fairy move (Close Combat, Superpower, Focus Blast, and Moonblast) -Bennett rematch still sucks -Luna is meh--it can outspeed a lot of her stuff, but fails to get OHKOs and her status is annoying. Sableye's burn will ruin it, and Thunderwave/Confuse Ray also suck. It is great against Tyranitar though? -Terrible vs. Samson. His slow pokemon have insane bulk and everything he has will OHKO. Only use is to revengekill with Aqua Jet (mostly Blaziken) -Decent against Aster/Eclipse rematch again, other than Magmortar/Electivire -Bad against Charlotte, despite being a water type. The only thing it can outspeed is Rotom (even at Level 70 with 31 IVs and 252+ Spe, her second slowest mon is faster). 4 of her pokemon have coverage that's good vs. Water/Dark typing (technically 5, but I exclude Typhlosion's Solarbeam). -Good against Aster, same reasons as usual -Sucks against Blake. 5 of his pokemon have coverage on it, the exception is Walrein who is bulky as all hell. -Nerfed vs. Terra. Its Dark STABs are removed and its Water STABs now run on its weaker special attack. On top of that, her pokemon are also very bulky--3 of them have max HP investment. -Good against Taka's Aerodactyl and Gliscor, and maybe Chatot just because it's so frail. -Sucks against Fern solo, sucks against Blake solo, and predictably sucks in a double battle against them -Good against Solaris's Tyranitar (and non-sand Excadrill). Everything else is too bulky or fast to OHKO. -Good against Ciel's Gliscor and Talonflame -Good against Victoria's Emboar, useless vs. everything else -ZEL's Aurorus runs Thunderbolt, Espeon has Dazzling Gleam. Zam is killable since it only has Charge Beam and has awful bulk. PULSE Magnezone will murder it. -Worthless against Adrienn You see here a pattern of even max Speed Crawdaunt getting outsped by things, facing tons of SE attacks, and generally struggling to trade 1 for 1. What makes Clawitzer so much better, you ask? A big part is the lack of Dark typing. This lets it contribute more in fights like Samson and Blake. The other is its special bulk is significantly better (Crawdaunt takes about 50% more damage from special attacks as a %, that's absolutely massive). Does Clawitzer get a setup move like Crawdaunt? No. But Crawdaunt never gets a chance to setup anyway. It's more likely I overrated Clawitzer than that I underrated Crawdaunt. Crawdaunt was just frustrating to use, frequently getting sent in and dying without doing much of anything. Clawitzer should probably be B or even C Also wrt a Water for A rank, Simipour. Scald is silly--Simipour is fast enough that it can outspeed everything Cal has and strong enough to OHKO since the field boosts Scald with the investment you get just from leveling it up. Acrobatics is a great coverage move. It's one of the fastest Water types (only slower than Floatzel, Greninja, Starmie, Mega-Sharpedo, and Keldeo; the latter 2 aren't even obtainable, Greninja is starter only, and Starmie is either super late or mystery egg RNG). Edited October 19, 2017 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) Talk about getting blown back. Geez, your argument just flattened me! I was looking at Crawdaunt from an objective standpoint, but your subjective standpoint of placing it the context of the meaningful Reborn fights is far more telling. Also, that's a lot of information you accessed for this reply, and I appreciate you posting it. But while Crawdaunt certainly struggles to 1v1 things, as you point out, that isn't really its role. Instead, it usually serves as a nigh-unparalleled revenge killer with adaptability aqua jet. That is what puts it above most, if not all, of the C tier--and over other Water types, of which there aren't a whole lot to choose from (that aren't terrible, at least) in Reborn. I really like the point you make about Simipour, though. It's very fast and actually turns Cal's team into a joke. Not sure it warrants A rank considering its frailty, lack of KO power, and general lack of usefulness after a certain point, but it definitely stands as the best very early game Water option (outside of some starters). Maybe that's the B tier Water we all deserve. Lastly, I really can't see Lilligant or Leavanny as B tier. I haven't actually used either in Reborn before, but Lilligant legitimately having zero coverage moves and not getting Petal Dance until 46 does not sound like a B tier mon to me. Easily low C tier or worse. On the other hand, Leavanny has horrendous typing, doesn't get it's powerful dual-stab until 39, and doesn't offer anything in terms of utility other than Sticky Web. It has good offensive stats, but again lacks any sort of coverage. It's better than Lilligant, though. *Invites giant fact from someone to cement these two as B tier* Edited October 19, 2017 by Octavius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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