In a Fakemon Game, is the quality of Fakemon That important?

[groniack]

Hello guys!

For a while I have been thinking that making my own fan game would be really cool.

Since I like doing creative stuff, I decided that it would be nice to add fakemon to it... And in the end, I decided to have only my fakemon appearing in the game.

The problem is that I am not that good at digital art... here are some examples:

Spoiler

 

Not that bad... but nowhere near the official pokemon design level

 

So, I was wondering, In games that feature Fakemon, is the design of the Fakemon the most important thing for you? The thing that determines how good, or how bad the game is?

Would you consider playing a Fakemon game with not as good designs as other fakemon games like Uranium and Sage?

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by groniack

[groniack]

16 minutes ago, GS BALL said:

Yes and no... I have tried some fakemon games, most notably Insurgence and Uranium (the latter of which i beat to the end). The most important thing for the fakemon is the movepool, for me. If they have fun abilities and moves, they are okay. Design comes second. But in Insurgence, i didn't like fakes, especially fake-Megas. They seemed to follow a pattern (big tails, small bodies) and were somewhat repetitive.

 

Original design however, is interesting. It doesn't have to be a work of art, in order for players to enjoy it!

 

That being said, after Reborn, i can't touch anymore games with fakemon. I found the perfect pokemon (fan)game for me, stores closed down!

 

Hahah, I know reborn is on another level Best game ever!

I think though that in Insurgence the deltas had pretty interesting movepools and abilities... Maybe the design plays a much more important role than we think.

[Wolfox]

I never really consider a mon a Fakémon, I just treat them like any other new mon I've never seen/used. in that sense, I don't think it makes a game worse if t has "Fakémon" or "bad" ones at that. if you wanna make some of your own mons reality in your game, let nothing stop you

[Swamp King]

Well well! In my opinion fakemon are a refreshing experience. I like the idea of a game with fakemon, it is like you are a kid again, searching for new pokemon and learning about them in the process. This is definitely unique. But since you emphasize on adding your own pokemon, I would like them to be at least acceptable or I wouldn't play the game. The ones you have posted as examples are not bad. They are acceptable for my tastes. Well, in fact I really like some of them! If the story of your game is also good, I would gladly give it a shot.

Well, there is always room for improvement for anything so, since your sprites are already decent, you can make them great later on.

I hope you don't give up on your idea of creating this game. Who knows, maybe it will turn out great!

[groniack]

Thank you for your answers, all of you.

I still believe though that good pokemon designs may be the deciding factor between a good fangame and and a great fangame.

As you all said, there are more important things to a game.

 

17 hours ago, Wolfox said:

I never really consider a mon a Fakémon, I just treat them like any other new mon I've never seen/used. in that sense, I don't think it makes a game worse if t has "Fakémon" or "bad" ones at that. if you wanna make some of your own mons reality in your game, let nothing stop you

Thanks I will continue making them! In fact I have a lot of them already.

 

8 hours ago, Swamp King said:

Well well! In my opinion fakemon are a refreshing experience. I like the idea of a game with fakemon, it is like you are a kid again, searching for new pokemon and learning about them in the process. This is definitely unique. But since you emphasize on adding your own pokemon, I would like them to be at least acceptable or I wouldn't play the game. The ones you have posted as examples are not bad. They are acceptable for my tastes. Well, in fact I really like some of them! If the story of your game is also good, I would gladly give it a shot.

Well, there is always room for improvement for anything so, since your sprites are already decent, you can make them great later on.

I hope you don't give up on your idea of creating this game. Who knows, maybe it will turn out great!

 

So, you believe that with these designs people won't be discouraged to play? That's good to hear

I personally would be bothered quite a bit... When I play fakemon games I catch them usually based on their appearance.

I try not to look into the wiki for them until I finish the game/release. But I guess, the concept of their design is what urges me to catch them more than the actual design.

 

Do you guys believe that the creativity in the design of a fakemon is more important than the design itself?

 

 

[Masquerain]

I speak for myself alone, but the design of the Fakemon is definitely the most important thing for me in one such game. I usually use Pokemon on my teams because I like their designs. Things like typing and stats/viability come after narrowing down the designs I really like. It's the very reason for me to stray far away from Fakemon games most of the time- they simply are usually filled with Fakemon that look like uninspired blobs or go overboard with what pokemon usually look like. 

 

Your samples of Fakemon don't look half bad, although my personal preferences go against the 1st one. The snake in the middle looks pretty plain so far. The third Fakemon has my attention though.

 

Creativity of design vs visually pleasing design-  for me, it's probably the latter once again. I can acknowledge and appreciate the creativity behind some designs, but it won't make me like them visually, and certainly not make me want to have them on my team

[Felcatty]

Personally I like games with fakemon in them, they're so different and it's interesting seeing what the creators come up with.

To answer you first question though fakemon need to be visually and aesthetically pleasing in order for me to play. They don't need to be out of this world fantastic but at least have a '3d' aspect through proper shading. I can't really work with any '2d' base designs cause they look really out of place to me. 

However, I love your first and third fakemon samples, to me they're appealing (honestly the first one might be too good).

As for your second question, it's more the visual aspect again just because a lot of mons are created based on objects and creatures in our everyday life, if I see something I like then I'm more inclined to look up lore and concept.

 

 

[Yagami]

Let's see.Never played a fakemon game after seeing the screenshot of a fakemon.
I guess that answers some questions.

[Ironbound]

On 14/09/2017 at 5:17 PM, groniack said:

In games that feature Fakemon, is the design of the Fakemon the most important thing for you? The thing that determines how good, or how bad the game is?

 

Short answer: Yes, it's fairly vital

 

Long answer: There's three quintessential things that make a fakemon game: the Fakemon themselves, the plot, and the game mechanics.

 

For the moment, I will concern myself only with the fakemon aspect. The Mons have to fulfil the following criteria: 

 

1. Their designs must be wholesome: To feel and act like natural Pokémon, they must be designed so that they look like them. Their designs must be neither too crude not too overdesigned. Many fakemon games go awry here because the fundamental reason behind the appeal of Pokémon as a franchise is the appearance of the mons: how cute, cool or intriguing they are, and how they look to the eye. That is what makes the casual observer sit up and take notice about your project; the majority of them pick a fakemon game (and there are many of them, so you have a lot of competition to contend with) based on how the Mons look and feel like, what vibes they give off and how that appeals to them. A crude or overstuffed design is counterintuitive to that objective. Graphics are therefore very important, as are the names that you give to them.

 

2. They must be balanced: This is another common mistake that many fakemon games run into: making every Mon awesome and powerful won't cut it (The "If everything is broken, then nothing is" logic doesn't translate well in practice) and neither will making every Mon weak or bland. A game where you can overlevel one Pokémon (your starter, or some dragon type or something) and sweep through everything is terribly boring. No natural Pokémon game is full of blaziken and garchomps; the bibarels and butterflies are equally essential. A well balanced roster is such that every Mon has some viable role to play at every stage in the game. Diversity should be encouraged and no idea or concept (however much you may like it) should be overpowered. Artificially restricting level caps is not a quick-fix solution to an OP roster either, as it only makes it frustrating to break through.

 

3. There must be a good vibe to them: It's fairly standard to make things based on established themes. Some things are hard to change, like the essential route 1 rodent, bird and bug. But in general, fakemon can unleash creativity like no other avenue in Pokémon. You can and should do more than just take an animal base, slap a different colour and an elemental affiliation onto it and call it a Pokémon. But that again depends on what kind of theme you have going: if your world is a naturalistic one, having animal-based Mons is fine. If you're going for the bizarre, then you can have more abstract themes (much like what Ultrabeasts do.)

 

So there you have it, in a nutshell. I speak with the experience of having worked on a fangame project with our own fakemon. Graphics and appearances are an essential part of making a game that people will be interested in; not the only important thing, certainly, but undoubtedly one of them. If you're not skilled at making your own designs, I would suggest to you to enlist the help of an artist, or take on a creative partner in some form. I'd advocate against compromise on design or statistical quality, though, and advise caution as you proceed.

[groniack]

First of all, thanks for all the answers

 

2 hours ago, Masquerain said:

I speak for myself alone, but the design of the Fakemon is definitely the most important thing for me in one such game. I usually use Pokemon on my teams because I like their designs. Things like typing and stats/viability come after narrowing down the designs I really like. It's the very reason for me to stray far away from Fakemon games most of the time- they simply are usually filled with Fakemon that look like uninspired blobs or go overboard with what pokemon usually look like. 

 

Your samples of Fakemon don't look half bad, although my personal preferences go against the 1st one. The snake in the middle looks pretty plain so far. The third Fakemon has my attention though.

 

Creativity of design vs visually pleasing design-  for me, it's probably the latter once again. I can acknowledge and appreciate the creativity behind some designs, but it won't make me like them visually, and certainly not make me want to have them on my team

 

Of course the poison one would get your attention

I was waiting for such an answer. I believe this is the most common opinion among people who play fakemon games myself included. In Pokemon Uranium for example, people mostly focus on the pokemon designs rather than the story (which was actually pretty good in my opinion).

But I thought that if I add lots of new features for example in the battle system, maybe the focus will not be that much on the designs...

 

46 minutes ago, Felcatty said:

Personally I like games with fakemon in them, they're so different and it's interesting seeing what the creators come up with.

To answer you first question though fakemon need to be visually and aesthetically pleasing in order for me to play. They don't need to be out of this world fantastic but at least have a '3d' aspect through proper shading. I can't really work with any '2d' base designs cause they look really out of place to me. 

However, I love your first and third fakemon samples, to me they're appealing (honestly the first one might be too good).

As for your second question, it's more the visual aspect again just because a lot of mons are created based on objects and creatures in our everyday life, if I see something I like then I'm more inclined to look up lore and concept.

 

Yup, I believe that's the strength of fakemon games. They give something different and exciting in comparison to the usual games. That's why I would like to make a game reality one day. Pretty glad you liked the designs . 

 

44 minutes ago, Yagami said:

Let's see.Never played a fakemon game after seeing the screenshot of a fakemon.
I guess that answers some questions.

You mean your focus is more on the story and the features of the game rather than the designs?

 

27 minutes ago, Ironbound said:

 

Short answer: Yes, it's fairly vital

 

Long answer: There's three quintessential things that make a fakemon game: the Fakemon themselves, the plot, and the game mechanics.

 

For the moment, I will concern myself only with the fakemon aspect. The Mons have to fulfil the following criteria: 

 

1. Their designs must be wholesome: To feel and act like natural Pokémon, they must be designed so that they look like them. Their designs must be neither too crude not too overdesigned. Many fakemon games go awry here because the fundamental reason behind the appeal of Pokémon as a franchise is the appearance of the mons: how cute, cool or intriguing they are, and how they look to the eye. That is what makes the casual observer sit up and take notice about your project; the majority of them pick a fakemon game (and there are many of them, so you have a lot of competition to contend with) based on how the Mons look and feel like, what vibes they give off and how that appeals to them. A crude or overstuffed design is counterintuitive to that objective. Graphics are therefore very important, as are the names that you give to them.

 

2. They must be balanced: This is another common mistake that many fakemon games run into: making every Mon awesome and powerful won't cut it (The "If everything is broken, then nothing is" logic doesn't translate well in practice) and neither will making every Mon weak or bland. A game where you can overlevel one Pokémon (your starter, or some dragon type or something) and sweep through everything is terribly boring. No natural Pokémon game is full of blaziken and garchomps; the bibarels and butterflies are equally essential. A well balanced roster is such that every Mon has some viable role to play at every stage in the game. Diversity should be encouraged and no idea or concept (however much you may like it) should be overpowered. Artificially restricting level caps is not a quick-fix solution to an OP roster either, as it only makes it frustrating to break through.

 

3. There must be a good vibe to them: It's fairly standard to make things based on established themes. Some things are hard to change, like the essential route 1 rodent, bird and bug. But in general, fakemon can unleash creativity like no other avenue in Pokémon. You can and should do more than just take an animal base, slap a different colour and an elemental affiliation onto it and call it a Pokémon. But that again depends on what kind of theme you have going: if your world is a naturalistic one, having animal-based Mons is fine. If you're going for the bizarre, then you can have more abstract themes (much like what Ultrabeasts do.)

 

So there you have it, in a nutshell. I speak with the experience of having worked on a fangame project with our own fakemon. Graphics and appearances are an essential part of making a game that people will be interested in; not the only important thing, certainly, but undoubtedly one of them. If you're not skilled at making your own designs, I would suggest to you to enlist the help of an artist, or take on a creative partner in some form. I'd advocate against compromise on design or statistical quality, though, and advise caution as you proceed.

 

Thanks for the advice! I totally agree with you. If fakemon are well designed and balanced they add great depth to the game. I will take into consideration what you said.

 

 

 

[Masquerain]

35 minutes ago, groniack said:

First of all, thanks for all the answers

 

 

Of course the poison one would get your attention

I was waiting for such an answer. I believe this is the most common opinion among people who play fakemon games myself included. In Pokemon Uranium for example, people mostly focus on the pokemon designs rather than the story (which was actually pretty good in my opinion).

But I thought that if I add lots of new features for example in the battle system, maybe the focus will not be that much on the designs...

 

 

 

 

 

Not that I knew it to be poison type, but it makes sense now  

(I also made my own fake eeveelution called Toxeon, it might still be around this forum somewhere)

[NickCrash]

As others have said, design is important. Before you release the game re-work on all the fakemon designs. 

Usually the creation goes like this: 

general idea of what the pokemon looks like --> give type(s) --> give abilities and stats --> provide movepool --> make design --> improve design --> finish

 

I avoid all fakemon whose design was lazy or overcomplicated. It's funny because it has also happened with canon pokemon, so this is a really important thing to consider. I played till Gen3, then returned in Gen5 with no knowledge of what new pokemon exist, so I started with hacks. When I saw the elemental monkeys I thought they were lazily made fakemon and avoided them. I think I speak for many when I say that design plays a big role in a pokemon game.

 

Therefore I have this proposal for you. 
Since the artwork for your fakemon will probably not be similar to that of the canon pokemon, and thus the difference will show, you should make your world completely with fakemon. I understand this might turn out to be a lengthy process, but it's a winning strategy. When the folks that tried to create Se7en tried to do it, they were working on it for months. They even launched a huge marketing campaign to get people to play their game. The first episode was a huge success as it was a new experience to most.

I believe any creator who wishes to make a new pokemon world with fakemon, should aim at this; a new experience. You may achieve what others could not. 

 

The designs are not half bad, but they still need work. Before taking this seriously, I suggest you make contact with a few people capable of coding and designing as that would speed up your process. It also makes up for any silly idea you may have. Furthermore I suggest before creating the game to have the story written down and revised a few times, so that when you start building your world, you don't end up making something so generic that it will be easily forgotten. 

[groniack]

16 hours ago, NickCrash said:

As others have said, design is important. Before you release the game re-work on all the fakemon designs. 

Usually the creation goes like this: 

general idea of what the pokemon looks like --> give type(s) --> give abilities and stats --> provide movepool --> make design --> improve design --> finish

 

I avoid all fakemon whose design was lazy or overcomplicated. It's funny because it has also happened with canon pokemon, so this is a really important thing to consider. I played till Gen3, then returned in Gen5 with no knowledge of what new pokemon exist, so I started with hacks. When I saw the elemental monkeys I thought they were lazily made fakemon and avoided them. I think I speak for many when I say that design plays a big role in a pokemon game.

 

Therefore I have this proposal for you. 
Since the artwork for your fakemon will probably not be similar to that of the canon pokemon, and thus the difference will show, you should make your world completely with fakemon. I understand this might turn out to be a lengthy process, but it's a winning strategy. When the folks that tried to create Se7en tried to do it, they were working on it for months. They even launched a huge marketing campaign to get people to play their game. The first episode was a huge success as it was a new experience to most.

I believe any creator who wishes to make a new pokemon world with fakemon, should aim at this; a new experience. You may achieve what others could not. 

 

The designs are not half bad, but they still need work. Before taking this seriously, I suggest you make contact with a few people capable of coding and designing as that would speed up your process. It also makes up for any silly idea you may have. Furthermore I suggest before creating the game to have the story written down and revised a few times, so that when you start building your world, you don't end up making something so generic that it will be easily forgotten. 

 

I really disliked the design of the elemental monkeys, too (except maybe Pansage/Simisage who were not bad). So I can see what you mean with lazy design and I totally agree with you.

I was really planning to feature only fakemon in my game so it's great that you think this idea has promise!

I will take all your suggestions into consideration.

 

[Dante52]

Well, I don't think I can add that much to what's already been said, but if you want another example of a game that does fakemon well (in my opinion), you should look at SolarLight/LunarDark (It came out before Sun and Moon. Just throwing that out there)

[Giantsparrowbee]

nevermind

Edited September 28, 2017 by Giantsparrowbee

[Monochrome_Complex]

Of course they are. Treat your fakemon as if you were actually designing a pokemon for Gamefreak. Though admittedly I don't even think most fans of the actual games take enough time to actually understand many pokemon designs anyway, writing them off at first glance without attempting to examine the finer details and direction of the pokemon.

 

Case and point elemental monkeys who get unfairly called lazy. I get if you think they're ugly but they're not as lazy as their critics claim them to be.

[Giantsparrowbee]

17 minutes ago, Monochrome_Complex said:

Of course they are. Treat your fakemon as if you were actually designing a pokemon for Gamefreak. Though admittedly I don't even think most fans of the actual games take enough time to actually understand many pokemon designs anyway, writing them off at first glance without attempting to examine the finer details and direction of the pokemon.

 

Case and point elemental monkeys who get unfairly called lazy. I get if you think they're ugly but they're not as lazy as their critics claim them to be.

I would like to build off this by talking about trubish. He is not one of the best looking pokemon in the game, but he still has more creativity and life the others such as muk the blob. He has details that gives this literal bag of trash life

Edited September 28, 2017 by Giantsparrowbee

[EndearingCharacterTrait]

The designs are important, but remember it's very easy to criticize design work when it's other people's design work. No matter what you do someone will always say it doesn't look good, and to be honest their opinion doesn't always matter. 

 

Put in your best effort but don't allow potential criticism stop you.

[Monochrome_Complex]

6 minutes ago, Giantsparrowbee said:

I would like to build off this by talking about trubish. He is not one of the best looking pokemon in the game, but he still has more creativity and life the others such as muk the blob. He has details that gives this literal bag of trash life

Definitely. There's the also angle of how they work within the context of pokemon's world, with trubbish help keeping Unova clean by devouring trash as its main food source. This is an important thing to consider when designing fakemon too. You can't just look at it from a gameplay perspective but a worldbuilding one too.

 

Though one could argue that GF sometimes emphasizes the latter too much. It's really silly how some evolutions don't get a stone retcon because GF doesn't want to mess up their eyes of what's "canon" or something. There's no good reason leafeon and now Glaceon can't evolve with a leaf/ice stone. It's just GF being stubborn.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Monochrome_Complex

[groniack]

Thanks for all the feedback! What I am talking about is this-> if the fakemon designs aren't on par with the the real pokemon designs, does this make the game unplayable?

Of course when I design them I treat them as real pokemon. I put my best effort to make them as good as possible But there is a limit to my and my brother's artistic capabilities

We will improve though.

If I were to upload a version of a game with designs like those above, would you give it a try?

[Felcatty]

I'd definitely give it a try. Of course there's a limit to what you can do, but you can only learn and improve right? I don't believe it makes it entirely unplayable but I find it difficult to get into a game that only has 2D art, without the shading it just doesn't feel right.

Regardless, again I'd love to give your game a try if you release it.