E17 new pokemon guesses

[Zander]

3 minutes ago, Paperblade said:

You can get Torchic as your first pokemon, walk into the tall grass right outside after that and catch mons with Moody in less than 5 minutes of playtime, then pay off a homeless drunk to get access to a pokemon with Prankster dual screens, which enables just about any other setup sweeper you can think of if for some reason you didn't like the fire bird or silly beaver

 

Gyarados after 14 badges and 30+ hours of playtime is not breaking the game

I guess you've never swept a team with plus 6 dragon dance Gyarados using waterfall

[Venonaut97]

18 minutes ago, Paperblade said:

You can get Torchic as your first pokemon, walk into the tall grass right outside after that and catch mons with Moody in less than 5 minutes of playtime, then pay off a homeless drunk to get access to a pokemon with Prankster dual screens, which enables just about any other setup sweeper you can think of if for some reason you didn't like the fire bird or silly beaver

 

Gyarados after 14 badges and 30+ hours of playtime is not breaking the game

14 minutes ago, Zander said:

I guess you've never swept a team with plus 6 dragon dance Gyarados using waterfall

That's nothing. Try dealing with a plus 6 quiver dance venomoth that has tinted lens. Not only will it wreck things with bug buzz, but tinted lens will double its attack power if used against a Pokemon that resists it. Sure Venomoth can't take hits, but if you can't outspeed it by that point, then the battle is already over.

 

The game could already be broken, you just had to know what to look for.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Venonaut97

[Zander]

@Venonaut97

But venomoth is frail. If it gets hit by something strong then it'll be very difficulty to set up without any easy chance to get koed. Gyarados on the other hand is bulky as hell. Only a strong electric type attack does damage to ko it. Even rock slide isn't that effective. It can easily set up 3 dragon dances, heal, another 3 dragon dances, heal and sweep everything.

 

Frankly speaking we will probably only get Gyarados after Amaria. After her only Hardy and Saphira are left both of whom have the broken dragon den feild where dragon dance works differently and smack down does double damage. So this is basically nerfing Gyarados after it cannot be exploited

Edited September 19, 2017 by Zander

[Venonaut97]

@Zander

I will admit gyarados is the better sweeper due to attack power, 125 atk is much better than 90 sp atk, as well as in terms of how easy it is to set up. The only areas venomoth does better in are: having access to free hits via sleep powder, giga drain for healing, and having tinted lens to prevent bad type match-ups from ending the sweep. While these are great traits, they still don't hold a candle to gyarados's higher damage output and ease of setting up due to its bulkiness.

 

I'll also admit that I did a poor job of trying to make my point, as I focused more on venomoth, and less on the idea that the game could already be broken. As to addressing how the game can be broken, I will give some examples of how venomoth and crobat already do this.

 

Firstly, using venomoth I have managed to partially or fully sweep Corey, Shelly (once), Aya, Noel, and Radomus. Noel was very easy, as I was easily able to buff venomoth by using sleep powder to cover him. Radomus was a lot harder due to having the type advantage, but I still managed to take down 4 (almost 5) of his pokemon using only venomoth and crobat. As for Crobat, I was able to take ~85% of the giant steelix's health with crobat (think lax incense, confuse ray, and lots of double teams). Using the same tactics, and poison fang, crobat was able to take down ditto arceus by itself (Did this in 3-4 tries).

 

Based on these cases, the game can already be broken, so adding gyarados at this point probably wouldn't be too much. Now, if you really want to worry about really breaking the game, I would worry more about getting the ability to mega evolve or having the z crystals.

[Zander]

@Venonaut97

Yeah what you're saying is correct I guess. These pokemon can be great sweepers if used correctly and with some bit of luck on our side.

As for mega evolutions, we haven't gotten any significant mega stones yet except maybe the Cameruptite and no Z crystals yet so I wouldn't worry about those too much.

But yes I do agree with your point

[Paperblade]

7 hours ago, Zander said:

I guess you've never swept a team with plus 6 dragon dance Gyarados using waterfall

I've swept Noel with +6 beautifly, although that's a softball since ever since Wigglytuff became his lead he's really easy

 

Quiver Dance is *really* good and half the lines that get it are available before the first gym

 

 

[Seel The Deal]

It's not the fields Dragonite can abuse, it's the pokemon in general. Dragon Dance + Multiscale + Amazing movepool + Great bulk + Fly isn't bad in main story gameplay = literal monster. No way Dratini's coming any sooner than the E4 imo.

 

@FairFamily Depends if it's running Sturdy. Analytic is really, really good so it's basically a 1/2 shot. There's also Magnet Pull but that probably won't be its ability. Also, why mention the Air Balloon? I doubt we're getting Earthquake and I can't see people going for Bulldoze when STAB Waterfall has the same BP as 2x Bulldoze. theres also the chance she doesn't use magnezone but tbh who wouldn't use magnezone lol

[Moneybanks416]

Off topic but I wonder how deprived of resources we're going to be in the desert. Since it's a huge arid area I can't imagine there will be Pokemon centers or marts readily available. That would add another layer of realism/difficulty. I'm hoping we get the safety goggles as well.

 

As far as new pokemon, I'm expecting your typical desert mons to show up: Trapinch, Sandile, Diglett, Sandshrew, Cacnea, Maractus. Wild Vullaby would be cool.

 

Maybe we'll be lucky enough to get Gible as an event at the end of the episode after beating Titania. An event for Larvitar would be great as well. Since we have a steel and water leader coming up I don't think a T-Tar would be too overpowered at this point in the game

[Yagami]

15 hours ago, Moneybanks416 said:

Off topic but I wonder how deprived of resources we're going to be in the desert. Since it's a huge arid area I can't imagine there will be Pokemon centers or marts readily available. That would add another layer of realism/difficulty. I'm hoping we get the safety goggles as well.

 

As far as new pokemon, I'm expecting your typical desert mons to show up: Trapinch, Sandile, Diglett, Sandshrew, Cacnea, Maractus. Wild Vullaby would be cool.

 

Maybe we'll be lucky enough to get Gible as an event at the end of the episode after beating Titania. An event for Larvitar would be great as well. Since we have a steel and water leader coming up I don't think a T-Tar would be too overpowered at this point in the game

We can already get safety goggles.After Corin rogue escapes via the train.Talk to the police chief,he will give you a safety goggles.

By new pokemon,it meant pokemon that are unobtainable in game now.All the pokemons you said are already available in the game

(except the gible and larvitar).

[Seel The Deal]

11 hours ago, Yagami said:

We can already get safety goggles.After Corin rogue escapes via the train.Talk to the police chief,he will give you a safety goggles.

By new pokemon,it meant pokemon that are unobtainable in game now.All the pokemons you said are already available in the game

(except the gible and larvitar).

They're obtainable, but most are semi-rare and/or lower level. Having access to higher level, more common versions of these 'mons now that they're starting to lose their dominance would be nice for collectors, and good thematically.

[Chase]

I remember a certain debate about Talonflame's effectiveness a ....(has it been at least a year, geez, I'm old.)....while back....

 

Talonflame is a pretty good example of some mons that have been horrifically nerfed that should probably be easily available somewhat early in the game at this point due to Gen 7 mechanics. Talonflame's biggest niche back then was going for priority Acrobatics (a very strong move when not holding an item) and Roost (healing) all the time with Gale Wings in Gen 6.

 

In Gen 7, Talonflame can only get help from Gale Wings if it's at full HP. As it has happened in the meta game, Talonflame now can't roost up with priority because if it needs to roost it assuredly is NOT at full HP. Acrobatics can still work, but it will need to OHKO everything you use it on or you will likely lose the ability with the AI's retaliation.

 

Not only have several Pokemon been nerfed. We've reached the total level threshold where Gym Leaders are starting to become unable to hold an inherit advantage over challengers based on Pokemon availability. Pokemon like Magikarp easily can be argued to be released somewhere in the later-mid game because it would officially become a slight hassle to train them if made available at a low level and require some serious backtracking - and it also would find adversarial match-up issues with Electric type coverage. Yes, Gyarados breaks the early game and remains a fantastic sweeper with Dragon Dance, but it's reverence is literally overblown by this point in the story.

 

I think everything that isn't a psuedo legendary (i.e. supposed to be hard to find even in the main series games to some extent) is fair game. Amethyst will need to release Pokemon (in my humble opinion) based on sensible habitats and themes as opposed to protecting the difficulty of her upcoming benchmark trainers. The challenge is still going to be there based on fields anyway, and like I said, the level cap is officially so high that it is starting not to matter.

[FairFamily]

Well we can basically confirm Salazzle not that difficult considering how much episode there are but still, I thought you wanna know.

http://amethystblack.tumblr.com/post/165578816657/hey-you-know-that-even-with-the-drifbloon-and-the

[Walpurgis]

Ame just said in the development blog that as of the end of E17 only six non-legendary lines are still unavailable. My guesses are that those will be the dragonite, tyranitar, salamence, garchomp and aegislash lines for sure and maybe the ferrothorn or scizor lines, most probably the later since ferrothorn or ferroseed will presumably be found in the desert, so everything else will be obtainable next episode.

[Zander]

2 hours ago, walpurgis said:

Ame just said in the development blog that as of the end of E17 only six non-legendary lines are still unavailable. My guesses are that those will be the dragonite, tyranitar, salamence, garchomp and aegislash lines for sure and maybe the ferrothorn or scizor lines, most probably the later since ferrothorn or ferroseed will presumably be found in the desert, so everything else will be obtainable next episode.

Link to the blog?

 

Edit: Here's the link to whomever wants it:-

http://www.rebornevo.com/index.php?/pr/development/records/we-will-be-arriving-at-our-destination-shortly-r23/&page=3&tab=comments#comment-322

 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Zander

[Chase]

@walpurgis

 

Your list is about 6/7. That's what I'm thinking too for the most part.

 

Ferrothorn is a defensively oriented Pokemon, and while it's a very good one - tanks are not nearly as troublesome in game breaking as wallbreakers and sweepers in the game (from my experience). It's also not a fan of Fire, a common coverage move type. It's speed should hamper it enough for it to be fielded in this episode.

 

---

 

guesses on Ferro's replacement on your list for me are

 

Kommo-o: a conservative guess based solely on Kommo-o's psuedolegend status, which it shares with 5 of the Pokemon on your list.

 

Mimikyu: Disguise plus things like sub and set up may be harmful. Great typing.

 

Silvally: This thing may not be super powerful, but it shares the same vein as Arceus and Genesect in that lots of various items are required to make decent use of it. As the alleged "beast killer" Pokemon, it would not surprise me if this Pokemon has a story implication later on.

 

I will say that I think at this point, Scyther and Scizor are likely to be available. Great Pokemon each, but not justifiably axed in 17. 

[Sceptilespy]

Spoiler

Honestly. It's about time the player started getting Pokemon like Tyranitar and Gyarados. It just won't make sense for me to have to beat Lin once and for all with a freaking Venomoth. I personally think, at the very least, we're getting one new psuedo legendary that's not Kommo-no. Gyarados isn't breaking the game anymore. At this point, if Ame keeps her team comp skill, nothing is broken with the exception of legendaries. Besides, look at the gyms and fields left. Titania is probably fighting you in a mechanical field. Gyarados isn't doing anything. Tyranitar ain't doing anything. Most Psuedo's aren't doing anything with the exception of Dragonite and Garchomp. The only reason they're special is because Garchomp has an advantage over Titania, and Dragonite is overall a beastly Pokemon.

Long story short. Gyarados is completely possible, and so are most psuedos at this point in the game. 

EDIT: Someone mentioned Gyarados sweeping at Plus 6. The AI is improved, so I think it's a safe bet to say that it knows when it can get fucked and it can make an appropiate countermeasure. "but, sc3pt1le, wat 1f th3 f03 h4s n0 c0unt3r". This is Pokemon Reborn. Anything significant enough to require a +6 Gyarados will have a counter. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Sceptilespy

[Paperblade]

4 minutes ago, Sceptilespy said:

  Hide contents

Honestly. It's about time the player started getting Pokemon like Tyranitar and Gyarados. It just won't make sense for me to have to beat Lin once and for all with a freaking Venomoth. I personally think, at the very least, we're getting one new psuedo legendary that's not Kommo-no. Gyarados isn't breaking the game anymore. At this point, if Ame keeps her team comp skill, nothing is broken with the exception of legendaries. Besides, look at the gyms and fields left. Titania is probably fighting you in a mechanical field. Gyarados isn't doing anything. Tyranitar ain't doing anything. Most Psuedo's aren't doing anything with the exception of Dragonite and Garchomp. The only reason they're special is because Garchomp has an advantage over Titania, and Dragonite is overall a beastly Pokemon.

Long story short. Gyarados is completely possible, and so are most psuedos at this point in the game. 

EDIT: Someone mentioned Gyarados sweeping at Plus 6. The AI is improved, so I think it's a safe bet to say that it knows when it can get fucked and it can make an appropiate countermeasure. "but, sc3pt1le, wat 1f th3 f03 h4s n0 c0unt3r". This is Pokemon Reborn. Anything significant enough to require a +6 Gyarados will have a counter. 

tbh the current AI is really bad against sweeping in general. It doesn't switch out enough so if you can -stage something enough or sleep it or whatever anything with setup moves can sweep (or just use x-items)

 

Anyway I disagree on Silvally, and I don't think comparisons to Arceus and Genesect are relevant to them being obtainable or not, since Silvally's not a legendary and they are. The memories could be added into the game or even gotten as part of the sidequest to get it

 

I think Kommo-o is in simply because we already have two pseudos available, and Hydreigon likely on the way. Hydreigon and Metagross are better than Kommo-o imo, and Goodra is about as good.

 

Gengar, Mimikyu, Ferrothorn, Alola-Marowak, Toxapex are sort of the short list of stuff I see taking the 6th slot, and I'm leaning one of the two walls.

 

Or maybe it's Hydreigon and we don't get that last Dark Material? I sort of think coolness of pseudos almost makes more sense than a powerlevel thing, since A. we've got almost every good tutor move and soon will have B. Rock Climb, which will probably give access to a lot of TMs--there's a lot of rock climbable areas in past areas and at least one has a TM, and C. the Mega Ring. It's hard to justify much based on power level except for maybe something stupid like Aegislash.

 

[Sceptilespy]

1 hour ago, Paperblade said:

tbh the current AI is really bad against sweeping in general. It doesn't switch out enough so if you can -stage something enough or sleep it or whatever anything with setup moves can sweep (or just use x-items)

 

Anyway I disagree on Silvally, and I don't think comparisons to Arceus and Genesect are relevant to them being obtainable or not, since Silvally's not a legendary and they are. The memories could be added into the game or even gotten as part of the sidequest to get it

 

I think Kommo-o is in simply because we already have two pseudos available, and Hydreigon likely on the way. Hydreigon and Metagross are better than Kommo-o imo, and Goodra is about as good.

 

Gengar, Mimikyu, Ferrothorn, Alola-Marowak, Toxapex are sort of the short list of stuff I see taking the 6th slot, and I'm leaning one of the two walls.

 

Or maybe it's Hydreigon and we don't get that last Dark Material? I sort of think coolness of pseudos almost makes more sense than a powerlevel thing, since A. we've got almost every good tutor move and soon will have B. Rock Climb, which will probably give access to a lot of TMs--there's a lot of rock climbable areas in past areas and at least one has a TM, and C. the Mega Ring. It's hard to justify much based on power level except for maybe something stupid like Aegislash.

 

Remember, Ame took a long time fixing the AI. So like I said, don't count Gyarados out. 

[Gh0stStark]

All pokémon but six evo lines and legendaries not available... I don't think that it would make sense for stuff like Gengar, Gyarados, maybe even Garchomp to be among those, when the likes of Blaziken and Aegislash can be far more destructive with their perfect level up learnsets. 

Either Amethyst suddenly became very generous, and will give us every obtainable pokémon, via wild encounters or individual events, or all pokémon can be found but with certain conditions limiting which ones we'll be able to get, like some of them still being the result of a choice or random event that can't be repeated (starter selection, mystery egg, etc).

 

Either way, availability doesn't equate to viability, with the raising of some pokémon being impractical at this point, relying not only on Tutors and TM's, but on breeding moves too. Also, just being able to catch a strong pokémon doesn't mean you're forced to use it, so even if stronger things will be within our reach, they'll only break the game if we make use of them. 

 

I could be wrong, or maybe things changed but before the release of ep16, when alpha or beta testing started, Ame updated the chart of obtainable mons - hopefully she'll do the same this time so our curiosity can be sated.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Gh0stStark

[Chase]

I was merely spitballing as to what -could- be the held out Pokemon. I would love to be able to get Kommo-o.

 

Silvally for example, is a Pokemon that is known to be the "Beast Killer."  That makes for a potential story arc with the Ultra Beasts and those are odd Pokemon that may share similar values with say, the Tapu - Pokemon that will be legendary and thus may NOT be available in 17.

 

If I were the developer, I would be quite respectful of Type:Null's canon purpose and tie it to the UB quest. If Ame were to think as I do, we don't know if that quest would be in this episode or a later one.

 

Nothing to do with being hyperviable. Everything to do with being a lore heavy Pokemon that may need some space to find its role in Reborn.

 

---

 

Gengar no longer gets Levitate. It's in late.

 

Toxapex is a fair guess because Merciless is a scary good offensive ability for an AI that may not have the trigger finger to swap out poisoned Pokemon.

 

Ferro is in. I have a hunch.

 

Marowak-Alola is in. It's too slow to be gamebreaking and Ame can always move the Thick Club off of Cubone if it gets problematic (and make it a hidden item)

 

My money is on Mimikyu.

[Monochrome_Complex]

I forget, is gligar available yet? If not I can see it showing up in the desert, and gliscor seems like it'd rip titania apart, unless like half her team carries HP ice.

[Alistair]

26 minutes ago, Monochrome_Complex said:

I forget, is gligar available yet? If not I can see it showing up in the desert, and gliscor seems like it'd rip titania apart, unless like half her team carries HP ice.

Gligar is already available as a wild encounter on Route 3 iirc

[FairFamily]

@Chase Ame tweeted this a while ago. What it means however is unknown. Still it is a good indication.

 

[Paperblade]

Fair point on Silvally, although I think it's likely that this plot would be a sidequest just due to recency of gen7, and could be put in/started earlier in the game

 

I don't think Gengar is/was too powerful--without access to all the TMs its coverage is pretty bad, you're basically relying on Shadow Ball and sometimes Venoshock (also gets Dark Pulse but Dark/Ghost is basically the same coverage), and being frail it really needs to get OHKOs to stay around. This probably sounds really harsh, since Gengar still has great offensive stats. It's a really popular pokemon and is still OU. tbh the last mon could also just come down to Ame not being able to come up with an appropriate sidequest/location for it

[iDunno]

Well, there's eleven lines (twelve, if Skarmory counts) currently non-available: Gengar, Scizor, Gyarados, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Hydreigon, Talonflame and Aegislash. I never actually played Sun & Moon, but most of the non-legendary 'mons don't seem particularly powerful/broken (except maybe Mimikyu and Toxapex), so I'm pretty sure almost every one of them is gonna be available next episode in some way. 

 

My guess is that Gyarados, Dragonite, Garchomp, Ferrothorn, Hydreigon and Salamence are not gonna be available. Moxie Gyarados and Salamence are too powerful, and Ferrothorn is too good of a check against Amaria (I think). As for Dragonite, Garchomp and Hydreigon, they are, respectively, the aces of Saphira, Solaris and Lin, so I think it's unlikely Ame will let us fight fire with fire (same with Heather and Salamence). Although I could be wrong, since Lin's Hydreigon is probably gonna have some sort of unnatural boost, and Solaris's Garchomp is probably gonna Mega Evolve next time we fight him.

 

I think Scyther and Scizor are gonna be available, because Durant is already available, and Durant is arguably more dangerous than Scizor (okay, maybe not without access to Stone Edge, but still). Same with Gengar, Alakazam is already available, and Alakazam has slightly better stats overall. The Tyranitar line is gonna be available because of the desert theme, also because I think it's weird that we are allowed a METAGROSS, a pseudo-legendary with great bulk and no 4x weakness, and not a Tyranitar, which has a ton of common weaknesses. Also, I think there's gonna be wild/event Larvesta available (again, because of the desert theme).