Making a Reborn-Rejuv ish game

[ssbCasper]

Hi everyone! So I have a decent amount of experience in Pokémon game design. (Stopped working on my original project because of school). If I wanted to make a game with Reborn as the template (similar to what Jan did) how would I go about it? 

Edit: Let's not turn this into a Desolation discussion. (Although the Conor fight wasn't that bad)

Edited September 22, 2017 by ssbCasper

[Wolfox]

I know nothing of game design, but I know a few random things that could help

1. Make the game fair and let playability come before story. I'll give a nod to desolation here. I like the game, but the first gym battle is really unfair. you face a fire type leader with a firls in his favor and with a drought vulpix. now this aint the issue, the issue is the mons that are good vs him at the point of time: 1. only bibarel is really at a clear advantage against him, and bidoof is kinda found out of the way. my point is: don't make the playability get inflouence by the storty, make it hard but fair.

 

2. make sure you enjoy it yourself. because if you don't like what you make, why would anyone else?

 

3. just make what you wanna make and don't let people stop you from doing do

 

I hope this helps a little

[Yagami]

8 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I know nothing of game design, but I know a few random things that could help

1. Make the game fair and let playability come before story. I'll give a nod to desolation here. I like the game, but the first gym battle is really unfair. you face a fire type leader with a firls in his favor and with a drought vulpix. now this aint the issue, the issue is the mons that are good vs him at the point of time: 1. only bibarel is really at a clear advantage against him, and bidoof is kinda found out of the way. my point is: don't make the playability get inflouence by the storty, make it hard but fair.

 

2. make sure you enjoy it yourself. because if you don't like what you make, why would anyone else?

 

3. just make what you wanna make and don't let people stop you from doing do

 

I hope this helps a little

I am going to assume you only played early versions because the pokemon availability was changed.

More pokemon were added early game for people to easily beat Conner.A simple example would be Geodude.

[Noctelis]

4 minutes ago, Yagami said:

I am going to assume you only played early versions because the pokemon availability was changed.

More pokemon were added early game for people to easily beat Conner.A simple example would be Geodude.

Geodude doesn't mean anything against Conner, overtrained mine so it would evolve into Graveler, fed it some reverse candy to get it to a normal lvl where it actually listens and it got shot down by vulpix with only 1 attack, only pokemon that's actually useful against Conner is a Simple Numel.

Edited September 22, 2017 by Noctelis

[Yagami]

Just now, Noctelis said:

Geodude doesn't mean anything against Conner, overtrained mine so it would evolve into Graveler, fed it some reverse candy to get it to a normal lvl where it actually listens and it got shot down by vulpix with only 1 attack, only pokemon that's actually very useful against Conner is a Simple Numel.

That's called bad luck.Also going to assume it didn't have sturdy.

All of my pokemons were underlevelled at the battle.I didn't even need a numel.I beat Conner both times before and after the nerf.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.I was saying there are more pokemons so Conner is easily beatable.

[Wolfox]

yeah, I faced him before geodude and such became available. my point still stands tho

[EternalJinn]

Lol a new game discussion turned into a desolation thread real quick

[BRS swag]

Creamed Connor with a Blaze Combusken which got oversped by its flame charge. He turned out to be very easy. Never used a water type on him except spheal which couldn't survive in the field as it had ice body

[Alistair]

Let's get back on topic, shall we?~

 

I'm not experienced with the technical aspects of producing fangames, but I'd have one advice as far as the creative side goes.

Even if you do use Reborn as a template of sorts, don't copy its atmosphere and do your best to set your game apart from Reborn. 

 

I have a lot of respect for Jan's work. Rejuv is undoubtedly on the higher end of fangames, and it's wonderful that Reborn inspired such a high quality game. However, one of the things that struck me the most when I attempted to play it was that it tried, in my opinion, a bit too hard to be a better, more ambitious, edgier Reborn. It begs to be compared to Reborn. And when you're a fangame, you generally don't want to be compared to Reborn, because you often suffer from the comparison.

 

I haven't played the game but as far as I know, ICSW for one did something radically different with Spork. That's just fine. All fangames don't need to be dark, gritty and have tragedies happening left and right. I think the most important thing to do is to find your own setting, your own atmosphere, build your own world that can't be compared to anyone else's because it's the reflection of your own tastes.

It can be a dark and gritty world.

It can be a wild and epic world.

It can be a colorful and sweet world.

It can be a mysterious and shadowy world.

And so on...

 

Ideally, the game should be a door opening to the creator's inner universe. Invite the player inside that little world of yours, and they'll probably be hooked~

[Myst Desdemona]

In my honest opinion, I believe you should go about it the way you envision it. If you want to follow Reborn and Rejuvenations's trail, it means that you found something within those two games that you enjoy. On that point, I agree with Alistair's point: project your inner universe onto the game.

 

That aside, the Pokémon universe is very varied. It ranges from sweet to downright horrifying pokédex entries (Shedinja and Banette being one of my favorite examples). Don't try too hard to be gritty just for the sake of being gritty. The Pokemon verse itself makes that easy to accomplish without. I do believe however that a certain kind of tragedies should occur if you present the threat as actually being dangerous. What I mean is, if you brag in-game about this guy being the worst of all people, a monster among monsters, then I expect him to be able to do horrifying things here in there. This of course is up to you, just my two cents after all.

 

I have played a mass amount of pokemon fangames and a lot of them had something going on for them. Although for me, personally, if the gameplay isn't present, I wouldn't carry on with it for too long. The plot is very important to me, but the gameplay is what would break it or make it in the end.

 

Just go about it however you wish to see it, and try to set a unique tone for your own version. It doesn't have to be reborn/rejuvenation 2.0 if you don't want it to be.

 

On a side note, I really enjoyed and finished the current Desolation demo (Although I did get frustrated at the sky gym for a few battles xD)

[ssbCasper]

I probably should have been more specific. I have my own vision in mind for the atmosphere of the game. I want Reborn's 18 gym system, level caps and field effects. But I understand that there's already Rejuv and Desolation as similar games in terms of being "edgey". My ideas are more in line with how Suzerain did Z/O and Insurgence in terms of style. Thanks for the advice though I really appreciate it! 

Edited September 22, 2017 by ssbCasper

[Noctelis]

Instead of the regular starters, a starter based on a personality quiz, would make it more interesting.

Also, try to avoid the BS that some games have early on, such as Conner with Drought and Julia with her spamming Sonic Boom on early lvl's

Edited September 22, 2017 by Noctelis

[Commander]

I guess I'll be the one voice in the crowd saying that I really, really do not like fan-games that are based off of Reborn. I do enjoy Reborn because it sets out to be 3 different things which all actually clash quite well with its intention, but it's one of those one and done type deals and not something that should be made out of a series like it is. I'd actually even argue Rejuvenation could have been better than Reborn if it didn't take the dark and serious mindset and went with a more lighthearted if not silly adventure. I just want to state that before going deeper.

 

By saying you want to make a Reborn styled game, you are basically saying you want to make a cheap, knock off version of Reborn. Don't believe me? I'd assume you are going to be using sections of their script, if not the whole thing, many of their custom made tilesets, and certainly thinking about using their field effect system since it makes the game very difficult. It's very, very difficult to make a unique experience when your base game uses the same assets as somebody else. You can't really justify using story to say your game will be unique as story is the least important thing when it comes to a game (I've played games with horrible stories I enjoyed).

 

I'm not saying that using assets from other creator can't create a good game, but game making is an experience where you can't lean on people (outside your team) to make it work or do it well. You will have to do all these things you think you can borrow and use from other creators yourself otherwise you limit your game if not cripple it. Once you learn how to do everything, then you can learn to do more. Reborn certainly didn't get where it was today in a single day or even in a single year.

[Myst Desdemona]

Nothing wrong with edgy, although with the field effects and the difficulty, you can count me in as a player. Customized shinies and increased shiny chance will cement my status as a player. If you're following Insurgence, alternate form/Deltas would also be great. A game where the player's choices influence the plot/world heavily would be marvelous.

[groniack]

So, if I understood correctly, you just need the codes which reborn has used that are not included in essentials? Like the field effects and the level cap?

I am sure they are available somewhere but...

 

My advise is that you shouldn't completely copy what reborn did. Having for example exactly the same field effects in every fan game is a bit boring.

Just keep the idea of field effects and create your own ones. I make my own field effects for my project and I can help you if you want.

 

Level caps are almost ready in the default essentials. You can go to the script for battlers and search for obedience. There you can modify the level cap as much as you want and make it apply not only to traded pokemon but also to those you caught yourself (to do the second, you just have to delete a line if I remember correctly)

 

As for the number of badges, essentials does not limit their amount. You can have as many as you want. The only issue you might have is that 8 badges are shown by default at the trainer card which, with a little help, can be sorted (I personally haven't touched that part of the code...).

 

I believe it's better to get influence from the features that reborn has added to the game than to completely copy them. There are some useful tutorials on the net that help with the things you need. If you have any difficulty with the coding, you can ask for someone to work with you in your game.

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by groniack

[ssbCasper]

Quote

So, if I understood correctly, you just need the codes which reborn has used that are not included in essentials? Like the field effects and the level cap?

I am sure they are available somewhere but...

 

My advise is that you shouldn't completely copy what reborn did. Having for example exactly the same field effects in every fan game is a bit boring.

Just keep the idea of field effects and create your own ones. I make my own field effects for my project and I can help you if you want.

 

Level caps are almost ready in the default essentials. You can go to the script for battlers and search for obedience. There you can modify the level cap as much as you want and make it apply not only to traded pokemon but also to those you caught yourself (to do the second, you just have to delete a line if I remember correctly)

 

As for the number of badges, essentials does not limit their amount. You can have as many as you want. The only issue you might have is that 8 badges are shown by default at the trainer card which, with a little help, can be sorted (I personally haven't touched that part of the code...).

 

I believe it's better to get influence from the features that reborn has added to the game than to completely copy them. There are some useful tutorials on the net that help with the things you need. If you have any difficulty with the coding, you can ask for someone to work with you in your game.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by groniack

I have the Reborn PBS and pulled out the scripts I'll need. Coding isn't much of a problem and I do intend to add field effects, some of the Reborn ones just feel like must includes. For those worried that I'm going to end up making a Reborn knock off I can assure you that is not the case as me and my team already have a direction we want to take. Although the inspiration comes from Reborn with new features, tile sets and a completely different atmosphere the difficulty and field effects won't be the only selling point. Also Groniack I already made a custom trainer card and tinkered with the script to get it to display 18 badges correctly. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by ssbCasper

[ssbCasper]

Quote

I guess I'll be the one voice in the crowd saying that I really, really do not like fan-games that are based off of Reborn. I do enjoy Reborn because it sets out to be 3 different things which all actually clash quite well with its intention, but it's one of those one and done type deals and not something that should be made out of a series like it is. I'd actually even argue Rejuvenation could have been better than Reborn if it didn't take the dark and serious mindset and went with a more lighthearted if not silly adventure. I just want to state that before going deeper.

 

By saying you want to make a Reborn styled game, you are basically saying you want to make a cheap, knock off version of Reborn. Don't believe me? I'd assume you are going to be using sections of their script, if not the whole thing, many of their custom made tilesets, and certainly thinking about using their field effect system since it makes the game very difficult. It's very, very difficult to make a unique experience when your base game uses the same assets as somebody else. You can't really justify using story to say your game will be unique as story is the least important thing when it comes to a game (I've played games with horrible stories I enjoyed).

 

I'm not saying that using assets from other creator can't create a good game, but game making is an experience where you can't lean on people (outside your team) to make it work or do it well. You will have to do all these things you think you can borrow and use from other creators yourself otherwise you limit your game if not cripple it. Once you learn how to do everything, then you can learn to do more. Reborn certainly didn't get where it was today in a single day or even in a single year.

I do intend to use the field effects adding some that I designed, level cap and 18 gym leader format. Beyond that the tone and tiles will be radically different. I agree that Rejuv put itself in Reborn's shadow but I wouldn't say that it or Desolation are "cheap knock offs". An argument can be made that most Pokemon fan game players are more interested in an amazing story than they are with amazing game play (Take both pf Suzerain's games as an example). Considering our project is taking has 3 core Reborn mechanics and will boast a multitude of mechanics that very few devs have played with I believe we'll be able to distinguish ourselves from Reborn and its counterparts. 

[Nyarth]

I think the term "inspired" is a key here. I'm going to be perfectly honest--I haven't seen a single bad game that was directly "inspired" by Reborn. 

However, the reason for that is due to the exact audience it is going to attract. Along with most people, I had played Reborn previous to playing Rejuvenation or Desolation. So I came with an idea of what the game was going to be like, with already high expectations due to my enjoyment of playing Reborn. These games all boasted the similar mechanics and features. I was not only a fan of the field effects and etc, but I was very familiar with them at that point.

These games were all independently posted on the forum here and that's where they have their main audience, who are all people who played Reborn and liked it. 

 

Desolation and Rejuvenation would all be very bad entry level games for people who are not familiar to field effects, or to the sudden difficulty. They come with the expectation that the player had already gone through with Reborn.

That is where the main issue comes in though. As much as I love Rejuvenation and Desolation, they cannot be seen as independent games. Even though I far prefer them over Reborn itself, they aren't just "inspired". They will always feel like a Reborn spin-off no matter how far they stray. 

 

So how is your game "inspired"? You've stated that you'll be using the field effects and the overall gist of Reborn. But you have to know that you'll never lose the connection players will make from your game to Reborn. It will be incredibly difficult for your game to stand independent when you're using the exact stuff that is the signature of Reborn, especially if you're making it the key concept of battling in your game too.

[ssbCasper]

Quote

I think the term "inspired" is a key here. I'm going to be perfectly honest--I haven't seen a single bad game that was directly "inspired" by Reborn. 

However, the reason for that is due to the exact audience it is going to attract. Along with most people, I had played Reborn previous to playing Rejuvenation or Desolation. So I came with an idea of what the game was going to be like, with already high expectations due to my enjoyment of playing Reborn. These games all boasted the similar mechanics and features. I was not only a fan of the field effects and etc, but I was very familiar with them at that point.

These games were all independently posted on the forum here and that's where they have their main audience, who are all people who played Reborn and liked it. 

 

Desolation and Rejuvenation would all be very bad entry level games for people who are not familiar to field effects, or to the sudden difficulty. They come with the expectation that the player had already gone through with Reborn.

That is where the main issue comes in though. As much as I love Rejuvenation and Desolation, they cannot be seen as independent games. Even though I far prefer them over Reborn itself, they aren't just "inspired". They will always feel like a Reborn spin-off no matter how far they stray. 

 

So how is your game "inspired"? You've stated that you'll be using the field effects and the overall gist of Reborn. But you have to know that you'll never lose the connection players will make from your game to Reborn. It will be incredibly difficult for your game to stand independent when you're using the exact stuff that is the signature of Reborn, especially if you're making it the key concept of battling in your game too.

As I said to someone else our game will use the concept of field effects but create our own, have 18 gym leaders and a level cap but beyond that a bunch of features rarely seen in fan games and a completely different direction in terms of plot and atmosphere so I think will be something unique that people here on the forums will enjoy as much as those who haven't played a "challenging" fan game yet.

[Noctelis]

2 suggestions:

1. adding following pokemon system (many people like to see their favorite pokemon following them around)

2. using animated pokemon sprites (those inanimate sprites give battles a little bit of a boring feeling)