Dev talk 1: Reputation system and starting a revolution

[ssbCasper]

Hello trainers! So this is the first in a series of Dev talks that some people in the Insurgence discord persuaded me to do. Each one of these post will talk about a specific RPG concept and how its being applied in fan games with an emphasis on my own since other people might take a different coding approach. Now with that out of the way lets get started shall we?

 

A reputation system has becoming increasingly popular in fan-games. I can't pinpoint who the pioneer would be but my inspiration comes from traditional PRG games like the Fable series. But how exactly does it work? In very simple terms every choice made can increase, decrease or keep a variable neutral to varying degrees based on importance. This variable determines the player's reputation with any trainer. Because of this it is easy to create an event with several outcomes, will trainer Z fight besides you or betray you? The decisions made up to that point will determine that. Pokemon Empire benefits from such a feature as throughout the game optional side quest chains will be everywhere, trainers met in these as well as those who have a part in the central plot will all have reputation variables. Many rewards and side quest endings will change depending on choices as well as entire arcs of battles in the main plot being determined by such things. A very unique use of this system will be that at max reputation trainers will be willing to join the player's rebellious cause to free their region, it should be noted that it is impossible to have max rep with all trainers so the people fighting alongside you in the end game will differ from player to player, as well as the enemies you have made along the way that will be fighting against you. 

 

That concludes the talk, as this is the first one I'm sure that there will be plenty of criticism which is fine. I mainly want to know if people would be more interested in the technical aspects of the topic or if I should make these more fun and lively and less like serious reads.  

 

[Busti]

Hey cool idea. I love to know more about the dev concepts. I find most fun in the how and why. So you tell me why we have these concepts, great! Now how is this implemented? You already mentioned a variable that the game keeps track of for each trainer. I suppose simple boolean commands (if statements) will determine critical aspects in the game's progression. Is there more to it?

 

Also, illustrate! So many cool options to talk about. Tales of Symphonia was great at it. You can bring depth in each topic by comparing how the relationship variables are implemented in various genres or even games within a genre.

[Candy]

This is a pretty interesting thread  My opinion would be to keep it serious, a little bit like documentaries, and your first post was perfect in terms of length.

[Star Arcana]

I personally liked the tone of your post; it's serious enough, but not too heavy either. I'm guessing that's what you meant, right? (if not, just ignore this, haha) 

 

Either way, I'm a dead fish when it comes to helping with mechanical aspects of making a game as I'm a total n00b at it. That being said, I really enjoy reputation systems; not only do they add to the game's replay-ability, but they also allow you to impact the world in a realistic way.  It's also really interesting when your options go beyond the "black vs. white" and force tough, nuanced calls.  

 

It's also important to note how choices can stack, and how that may affect events down the line. For example, choosing Estelle-friendly options twice, but then defying her the third time would likely yield a less negative reaction then if you had sided against her previously. Estelle may even become convinced you're right and side with you that third time, even though it goes against what she would have otherwise done. 

 

I apologise if I rambled and/or failed to contribute anything worthwhile...

[ssbCasper]

@Star Arcana Just having people to bounce ideas off with and talk to about the game helps me a ton. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by ssbCasper

[Nyarth]

I love relationship points with every fiber of my being, but there are a lot of people that don't like them either. For example, in Desolation, where if you didn't get a certain amount of points with one character something bad would happen and etc. 

People might not like it because they feel that they shouldn't be punished in a game for not having done something, and I can honestly agree. If you want to add relationship points, the best you can do to appease that side is to make the drawbacks and such more fair, but you're never going to be able to appeal to everyone. 

 

The variable adding way is probably the easiest and cleanest way to do this. However, with all you want to do with it, I think the variable categories might become extremely cluttered with the sheer amount you're going to need not just for the reputation system, but also for main game stuff. There might be a plug in for this, but honestly there might not be any way around that unless you want to make an entirely new system. 

[ssbCasper]

@Nyarth Oh trust me. The game is going to attract a pretty specific player base. There won't ever be a consequence for not doing anything because a lot of side quest type things are optional. But actions made will be rewarding or punishing to varying degrees. 

[Octavius]

This type of system has a strong potential to be overly complex. From every development standpoint--be it writer, coder, etc.--using a reputation system will create a nauseating amount of divergent paths. This can double, triple, even (insert word for 'multiply times a hundred' here) everyone's workload. When you institute a split path storyline such as the one you are suggesting, that has a butterfly or ripple effect for every subsequent action thereafter. So you can end up creating a game, that while it only started with 3 divergent paths, it ends up with hundreds of possible outcomes. And while that's beautiful and lofty to think about, each and every outcome (and the entirety of each path leading you there) has to be coded properly and written compellingly. It's a mess; this will only inhibit your game from reaching completion (and looking and working at a professional level).

 

So as far as the 'varying degrees' of reputation are concerned, I would limit it to 3 degrees: is 'trainer Z' ally to the player, neutral to the player, or against the player? After all, most divergent paths will ultimately be ...

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:50 AM, ssbCasper said:

will trainer Z fight besides you or betray you?

And that is largely based on 2 variables: is 'trainer Z' your ally or enemy?

 

It isn't as sexy, but it's much more realistic. And sometimes, with good writing, having black and white decisions can help make the (much more interesting and compelling) gray area in the middle stand out that much more.

 

Now, then, the positive: the BEST and I do mean absolute BEST idea in this thread is that REWARDS CHANGE based on decisions. This cannot be emphasized enough. 'Radiant' rewards are an easily implemented but grossly underutilized variable concept in Pokémon games. Take the mystery egg event (Reborn, Rejuv, etc.) for example. It's exciting because it shakes up your expectations. You cannot game-plan in advance for it. And there are infinite other circumstances in which you can vary quest rewards, thus diversifying and differentiating each player's experience (and increasing overall re-playability of the game). I could go into much further detail as to why these are all positives, but I'll save that for another post. Overall, the divergent rewards concept is exceptional and should be emphasized. Otherwise, keep things simpler and focus on the quality of the characters and writing without creating more work than can be realistically handled.

[Noctelis]

@Octavius Perhaps you've missed a topic, but casper had mentioned that most of the reputation system was going to be apart from the main story in the form of side quests.

This way there won't be any problems like the butterfly effect.

[ssbCasper]

I try to stay away from the forums for a bit but everyone who comments on my topics are just too helpful. Anyways @Octavius my word choice wasn't the best here, when I said to varying degrees, we originally planned a 5 degree system which would be only a bit more work than what you suggested, but you are absolutely right that it is probably better to focus our time and energy on other parts of development. Rewards being determined by decisions is definitely happening. As mentioned above a lot of the rep system won't affect the main plot besides 3-4 critical points.