About Meteors (e16 spoiler)

[Dream]

During our stay in meteor's hideout in e16 we can see two scenes that have given me much to think about.

Spoiler

After Ame's death Lin acts in a very suspicious way: she stoles Ame's pokemon, so she looks at us for a couple of seconds and goes away, then the gate that keeps us from continuing will open.

During ZEL's speech Eve speaks of PULSE2 and ARC-PULSE, and before challenging she remembers Zero that Lin requested that we are not harmed.

 

I'm the only one who finds it a bit strange? I understand that for the continuation of the story it's necessary that Lin does not face us, but from a more consistent point of view why she would protect us in this way? Lin is the meteor boss but don't seem to act in meteors interests. We are a danger to their plans, why not eliminate us? Already during our previous meeting (when we pretended to be a grunt in Tanzan) I had been suspicious of the way Lin talks to us (as if she was already certain that we knew about the giant Steelix).

The feeling I had is that Lin knows something that we don't know, maybe something about us somehow, that explains all these things, or that her interests don't really match those of the team.

In your opinion does all this makes sense? How can we interpret all this on the basis of the conjectures already made by others about Lin and her past?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Dream

[Zarc]

You're not the only one , i already did an interrogation on it.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Zarc

[NickCrash]

Back in Tanzan, she is not suspicious. She knows we defy her.

 

As for the reason she does not try to kill us, it's safe to assume she wishes to use us in some way.

[Zarc]

It's like @NickCrash just said : she plan to use us in my opinion aswell. Probably she will force us to destroy our own " friends ".

[gingerbreadman]

Given the woman who read the alternate timeline with the crystal ball and the room in the library, IMO there's some cyclical story going on (hence 'Reborn') that Lin alone is aware of. Only something's different this time - the MC's the source of opposition, rather than Fern (I think the crystal ball woman meant him, right?); Lin's aware of this as well, and wants to break the circle in some way. She needs us for later.

[Alistair]

Lin could have also killed Arc, Adrienn and Victoria, but didn't. She killed the only opponent that might have posed a real threat to her organization, aka Ame. Like the others above, I think she's going to have some use for us later (which is why she specifically instructed her underlings not to hurt us), but in any case she doesn't just want to kill everyone. She wants to divide, conquer, crush our hopes and make us suffer. She's not just interested in the purification of Reborn like Solaris was; she wants the suffering and destruction of all who oppose her. Solaris probably views killing as a tool to accomplish his duty, whereas Lin is crueller and more twisted.

As of now, the MC isn't a threat to her. Just one more pawn in her plans, that she will use before destroying it.

[ZEL]

Quote

During ZEL's speech Lumi speaks of PULSE2 and ARC-PULSE

(Eve actually)

 

Lin has never acted in the interests of Team Meteor as far as their original goals go.

IMO it's pretty transparent that she has only been using the entire group for her own gain and is willing or even planning to rid herself of them eventually. Like, did anyone actually expect her to share the glory of whatever it is she's working towards?

Nah, man, she's gonna be backstabbing everyone.

 

As a matter of fact, what happens to ZEL in E16 is, I think, a prime example of her doing just that.

Here's Ame's response to a question someone sent her om tumblr:

http://amethystblack.tumblr.com/post/155506997117/hi-ame-first-of-all-thank-you-for-all-your-work

Quote

Q: Could Lin have damaged the data herself (as all the important pulses are left unharmed by the attack) so as to trap ZEL into using the pulse against you (since she lured you to Devon herself) knowing it would lead to their demise? Or did I get that wrong?

A: ahh as for the pulse thing… im not sure lin herself would be able to do that, however you may not be on the wrong track.

Spoiler

 

First of all, Lin just walked out of the room and leaves us behind, instead of, yknow, throwing us out to prevent us from reaching the PULSE (she wouldn't have to kill or harm us to get us out. Throughout the episode she demonstrated quite well how easy it is to capture us). After our confrontation with her we also meet no more grunts. Only the puzzle. And she specifically made it clear that ZEL are not to harm us either.

Why let us progress? She obviously didn't care about keeping our allies prisoner any longer after she made an example of us and killed Ame.

 

Second, I find it incredibly suspicious that some hacker would have damaged only Magnezone, but the other PULSE projects would have stayed completely unharmed. This would be understandable if someone had been caught in the act of sabotaging them, but judging from ZEL's reactions during the E16 scene, they only just found out about it.
It appears Eve only noticed the issues with Magnezone as she was trying to transfer it.
So someone had the time to corrupt Magnezone, but then decided to call it a day and leave the rest of the PULSEs untouched? If the hacker had been working against Meteor, surely they'd have tried to do a better job.

So here's where Ame's comment further fueled my suspicions: What if Lin ordered someone to do this? Eve encountered no problems when transferring the other PULSEs to a safe location. Further, we also know that Magnezone was the only PULSE that couldn't be controlled by anyone other than ZEL themselves.

 

I'm assuming that the PULSEs that were transferred are the last ones that Lin needed for whatever her plans are. So after they were created and moved to safety, ZEL have outlived their usefulness.

I think that Lin wanted them out of the way after she no longer needed them, and it was quite convenient to make it look like anything that happened to them was the player's fault.

We're known for messing up PULSEs already, so if something happened to ZEL when we were present, it would absolutely look like the blame is on us. Which mans nobody is going to suspect Lin.

And we know there's a very skilled hacker in Team Meteor. Someone who Lin appears to be unusually fond of, by the way. Terra.

Interesting side fact: Someone also asked Ame whether Terra or Eve is more skilled with technology, and the answer was Terra. So she obviously has enough skill to bypass Eve's security

 

Tl;dr - Lin is just using everyone, including us, to benefit and further progress her own plans. I think it's very likely that we end up accidentally helping her in some way while we are trying to stop her. She's the exact type of character who would pull a "you did exactly what I wanted you to do, just as predicted" moment on us.

She only 'needs' us in the same way she 'needs' Meteor, as tools for her plans.

She's just keeping us around because we yet have to play our part in her scheme, and after that she's definitely going to try to do us in.

[Tringus]

Spoiler

You might be right about the Terra part.  Since Terra is still trapped inside the computer, what if she got an order from Lin to hack the Magnezone, and what if that was Terra's exit card from the Glitch World?  Samson and Ciel shut down the computer, so she could not escape that way.  But, what if she escaped via some other terminal?  The terminal with Magnezone's data could be that escape card for her.

 

[iDunno]

I honestly think it's a simple case of "leave him/her/xem to me". I think Lin knows the protagonist will soon grown into a worthy opponent, and actually wants him/her/xem to get stronger because she is looking forward to facing us in battle in the end, because being so powerful without anyone to oppose you must get boring. If you think about it, Lin is kinda of a evil version of the player character: young(ish), strong, mysterious, a person of few words (while the MC is a mute protagonist, he can clearly speak as implied by some dialogues, just chooses not to for most of the time), and got from bottom to the top below everyone's noses, eventually beating her surperiors (in our case, the Gym Leaders).

Also, I don't think she killed the champion because she thought Ame was a threat, it was probably just for kicks and to inspire terror. I remember Amethyst saying somewhere that in-game Ame was not a particularly strong Champion, and just took the job because she was the one who organized the league in the first place, and a league needs a champion.

[Ainz Ooal Gown]

The theory that you guys throw about Lin gives me Junko's impression to Lin

 

But yeah, Lin seems know every character we met this far. And here's my theory about ( maybe ) her plan :

 

Maybe, she's planning to create a scene where all character ( both good and bad ) will start to suspect each other ( idk what 's the reason for that ) and all character are gonna start fight each other, potentially will create chaos all over Reborn*

 

*Imagine Lin made Solaris and Sirius fight each other and those two use PULSE mons in their fight ( probably a long range battle, but you never know what damage they'll cause )

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ainz Ooal Gown

[NickCrash]

There are more PULSEs but there is little to no evidence new ones will be created. 

I propose you all search for "Pokemon Reborn Map" where Ame presents the early ideas of every game location. It provides some useful information for your speculation.

[Dream]

Sorry it took me two days to answer but my computer is crazy. The quote key does not work, I'll tag you:

 

@NickCrash @Zarc @gingerbreadman

Quote

Back in Tanzan, she is not suspicious. She knows we defy her. As for the reason she does not try to kill us, it's safe to assume she wishes to use us in some way.

She plan to use us in my opinion aswell. Probably she will force us to destroy our own " friends ".

Given the woman who read the alternate timeline with the crystal ball and the room in the library, IMO there's some cyclical story going on (hence 'Reborn') that Lin alone is aware of. Only something's different this time - the MC's the source of opposition, rather than Fern (I think the crystal ball woman meant him, right?); Lin's aware of this as well, and wants to break the circle in some way. She needs us for later.

Put together these things would make me think that Lin already has a plan. If it is true that somehow she is aware of the loop and wants to interrupt (or preserve) it, maybe she also knows how the loop takes place, how to act and how to rub Fern. Perhaps what will make us the hero who defeat Lin is the fact that we are not like Fern. It would be interesting as a plot. But neither Lin is out of the loop, so there must have been a time when she was not aware of it. Surely does not know it when runs out of the orphanage, maybe discovers it during her stay in Citae Arc-D'Astra?

 

@Alistair

Quote

Lin could have also killed Arc, Adrienn and Victoria, but didn't. She killed the only opponent that might have posed a real threat to her organization, aka Ame. Like the others above, I think she's going to have some use for us later (which is why she specifically instructed her underlings not to hurt us), but in any case she doesn't just want to kill everyone. She wants to divide, conquer, crush our hopes and make us suffer. She's not just interested in the purification of Reborn like Solaris was; she wants the suffering and destruction of all who oppose her. Solaris probably views killing as a tool to accomplish his duty, whereas Lin is crueller and more twisted.

As of now, the MC isn't a threat to her. Just one more pawn in her plans, that she will use before destroying it.

@ZEL

Quote

Lin has never acted in the interests of Team Meteor as far as their original goals go.

IMO it's pretty transparent that she has only been using the entire group for her own gain and is willing or even planning to rid herself of them eventually. Like, did anyone actually expect her to share the glory of whatever it is she's working towards?

Nah, man, she's gonna be backstabbing everyone.

 

As a matter of fact, what happens to ZEL in E16 is, I think, a prime example of her doing just that.

Here's Ame's response to a question someone sent her om tumblr:

http://amethystblack.tumblr.com/post/155506997117/hi-ame-first-of-all-thank-you-for-all-your-work

Quote

Q: Could Lin have damaged the data herself (as all the important pulses are left unharmed by the attack) so as to trap ZEL into using the pulse against you (since she lured you to Devon herself) knowing it would lead to their demise? Or did I get that wrong?

A: ahh as for the pulse thing… im not sure lin herself would be able to do that, however you may not be on the wrong track.

  Hide contents

 

First of all, Lin just walked out of the room and leaves us behind, instead of, yknow, throwing us out to prevent us from reaching the PULSE (she wouldn't have to kill or harm us to get us out. Throughout the episode she demonstrated quite well how easy it is to capture us). After our confrontation with her we also meet no more grunts. Only the puzzle. And she specifically made it clear that ZEL are not to harm us either.

Why let us progress? She obviously didn't care about keeping our allies prisoner any longer after she made an example of us and killed Ame.

 

Second, I find it incredibly suspicious that some hacker would have damaged only Magnezone, but the other PULSE projects would have stayed completely unharmed. This would be understandable if someone had been caught in the act of sabotaging them, but judging from ZEL's reactions during the E16 scene, they only just found out about it.
It appears Eve only noticed the issues with Magnezone as she was trying to transfer it.
So someone had the time to corrupt Magnezone, but then decided to call it a day and leave the rest of the PULSEs untouched? If the hacker had been working against Meteor, surely they'd have tried to do a better job.

So here's where Ame's comment further fueled my suspicions: What if Lin ordered someone to do this? Eve encountered no problems when transferring the other PULSEs to a safe location. Further, we also know that Magnezone was the only PULSE that couldn't be controlled by anyone other than ZEL themselves.

 

I'm assuming that the PULSEs that were transferred are the last ones that Lin needed for whatever her plans are. So after they were created and moved to safety, ZEL have outlived their usefulness.

I think that Lin wanted them out of the way after she no longer needed them, and it was quite convenient to make it look like anything that happened to them was the player's fault.

We're known for messing up PULSEs already, so if something happened to ZEL when we were present, it would absolutely look like the blame is on us. Which mans nobody is going to suspect Lin.

And we know there's a very skilled hacker in Team Meteor. Someone who Lin appears to be unusually fond of, by the way. Terra.

Interesting side fact: Someone also asked Ame whether Terra or Eve is more skilled with technology, and the answer was Terra. So she obviously has enough skill to bypass Eve's security

 

 

 

 

Tl;dr - Lin is just using everyone, including us, to benefit and further progress her own plans. I think it's very likely that we end up accidentally helping her in some way while we are trying to stop her. She's the exact type of character who would pull a "you did exactly what I wanted you to do, just as predicted" moment on us.

She only 'needs' us in the same way she 'needs' Meteor, as tools for her plans.

She's just keeping us around because we yet have to play our part in her scheme, and after that she's definitely going to try to do us in.

I like the analysis you made of Lin, what you say makes sense. Also the fact that she wants to use us in the future explains why we are not harmed in any way while others are tortured in various ways after their defeat. And Lin has already begun to use us to eliminate ZEL. The part about Terra then makes perfect sense, unfortunately I have never understood how Terra is bound to Lin, maybe I lost something. Can anyone explain it to me?

 

@GS BALL

Quote

She knows perfectly well who we are and what we are doing. This makes this particular character much more uneasy to be with, in the same in-game sequences. I don't like her the least bit. My No1 most hated in-game character ever.

I hate more Sigmund and Sirius, they are much more slimy.

 

@NickCrash

Quote

There are more PULSEs but there is little to no evidence new ones will be created. 

I propose you all search for "Pokemon Reborn Map" where Ame presents the early ideas of every game location. It provides some useful information for your speculation.

I didn't find the map, can you give me a link?

 

[kithas]

Sigmund is the boring type of villain (As in that's his character role, not that his parts are indeed boring), while Sirius and Solaris (and El) are Pokémon Villains (as in Giovanni or the heads of the resident teams, nothing less, nothing more). But Lin gives just that unsettling aura of being almost somebody (Her design reminds me very strongly of Fern and Florinia's). For the reason why could she be protecting the player:

 

- The simple (And fun) posibility: She's actually all about power, and she just want to grow another champion to triumph against just like she did to Ame. 

- The Plot posibility: The main character has an important role she needs completed. Going by the loop theories, maybe they (we?) were the ones who started it all, or the ones who started Lin.

Edited October 20, 2017 by kithas

[NickCrash]

I googled it. 

 

Solaris is the villain you may sympathise with. He's the man that inspires people to his cause, no matter what it includes.

Lin is the kind of person that only climbs to power in already established organizations. You don't look up to her. You fear her and shut your mouth.

Sirius is the typical rogue kind of villain. Gets a job that gives him what he needs. His sadistic personality is a bonus.

Sigmund is the good person turned evil. Here he does allign himself with the Meteors following his own agenda. He is the least dangerous for the player.

 

 

[ZEL]

@Dream

Quote

I like the analysis you made of Lin, what you say makes sense. Also the fact that she wants to use us in the future explains why we are not harmed in any way while others are tortured in various ways after their defeat. And Lin has already begun to use us to eliminate ZEL. The part about Terra then makes perfect sense, unfortunately I have never understood how Terra is bound to Lin, maybe I lost something. Can anyone explain it to me?

There are two instances in the game where a character talks about relations between Terra and Lin.
The first is during the Ametrine arc, when you chase down Blake with the ring, coming from Cal:
 

Spoiler

The second is from an NPC couple in the rebuilt Reborn City, Terra's parents. They can be found in the Beryl Ward (you enter the house sidewards so it can be a bit difficult to spot at first).

Spoiler

 

Lin isn't named in that dialogue with the parents, but with knowing that 1) Lin seems to 'favor' Terra, and 2) Lin was the name of a girl in the orphanage, it's pretty strongly implied IMO.

[Q-Jei]

Lin is probably the most machiavellian character in the whole game. Also, she seems to be omnipresent, knows the attitude of each character and uses them to spread suffering and cruality as long as she can. The temperament of Titania who killed almost everybody in the WTC, the fragile and dubious Taka who might be hardly punished by Solaris for disappointing him, Ciel and Samson who prefered shut down the computer with Terra inside even if she was Lin's sister in a certain way, and Sigmund who can be tricked easily after the death of her sister Elizabeth. Sirius managed to recruit him and stole the spirit of Eclipse, just because she didn't want her grandfather to be hurt.

 

My theory might be really ridiculous but it won't prevent me to tell it. Sorrow and pain are like fresh food for Lin and because Reborn City starts to get better now, she wants to keep feeding on Team Meteor members. She often acts soullessly maybe because she's dead inside, and this food is the only thing that keeps her "alive". The fact that she could apply the Pulse on humans could slightly enforce such a hypotesis. And then, the player comes on stage...

Edited October 21, 2017 by Q-Jei

[Dream]

Thanks  @ZEL , now I remember the scene on the mountain but I never found Terra's parents. It would be interesting to know more in the next episode.

@NickCrash thanks also to you, unfortunately the first link, which I imagine was the actual map, does not open but there are descriptions of the places

[ZEL]

@Dream I imagine it was probably this map (fair warning, huge):

https://i.imgur.com/DwIjMSG.jpg

Edited October 21, 2017 by ZEL

[NickCrash]

It does not include the "Chrysolia Pass".

I always thought it was the route we take to capture Solosis, since it's a connection between Tanzan and the Wasteland, but it's supposed to connect to the city.

Unless Byxbysion was supposed to be part of the city, the pass might have been erased.