E17 Obtainable Pokemon List Changes [Potential Spoilers?]

[Dreamy]

2 minutes ago, Azeria said:

It's not special sets that make Aegislash, it's the mixed ones. 150 in both attacking stats means it can easily run a 3/4 combination of Shadow Ball, Iron Head, Sacred Sword and Shadow Sneak to be extremely hard to play around.

Guess that makes sense, I used to see a fair bit of mostly special set with shadow ball and flash cannon, but it's been a while since I really looked. I quite like the swords dance, Iron head, Shadow Sneak/claw and sacred sword set myself, even if it's not quite as good.

[Norm]

 

Why do I only post essays?

45 minutes ago, Paperblade said:

The main thing I find puzzling is, if Scizor is too broken, how is Aegislash okay? It also gets Swords Dance, and its moves are far more powerful than Bullet Punch.

 

It has more weaknesses, but it also has a lot more resistances/immunities which gives it a higher chance of finding something that can't even do neutral damage to it. On top of that, its special bulk is really good (whereas Scizor is just kind of average), making for even more opportunities for easy setups.

This is exactly what I thought. Aegislash is Uber for a reason. This thing is both a tank and a sweeper which at +6 can wreak havoc upon any team. 150 base atk that can be boosted and hold an item is nuts in an ingame environment. STAB Iron Head and Shadow sneak is more than enough coverage for ingame as the combo does neutral damage to any pure type. Aegislash's matchups are also as absurd as scizor's. With literally legendary-tier bulk (It's defenses are literally the same as Registeel's, yet it gets 150 in both offenses) and a whopping 3 immunities and 9 resistances (that's more than Scizor) Aegislash can set up on just about anything. Since King's gets priority, it can almost always Stance Change when needed and get a leftovers recovery if run. Not to mention that Aegislash can debilitate many physical attackers with King's shield debuffs. Don't get me wrong I know that Scizor's bullet punch can make Ed-209 blush, but it's hard to justify his exclusion when literally both non-mega, non-legend pokemon are in the game now. Aegislash is just as good. Besides Hardy the god damn rock gym leader! It's not exactly the best type in terms of versatility and defense.

36 minutes ago, Gh0stStark said:

Aegislash has weakness to priority, and if your timing with king's shield is not right, Mimikyu, Protean Greninja or any other powerful Shadowsneak user will deal with pretty easily. 

King's shield has +4 priority, nothing will outpace it.

 

12 minutes ago, DreamblitzX said:

One thing that I don't really get, is why special sets seem way more popular on Aegislash? shadow ball > shadow claw is the only real reason I see.

That was because there are way more many physical checks competitively to SD aegislash (basically any bulky ground type like Hippowdon, Gliscor, and especially Landorus-T and Primal Groudon) Whereas running it bulky with Toxic + KS + 2 STABS gives it more versatility as a wall and a mixed attacker. It's SD more easily countered in the meta. That isn't really a problem in a ingame because you don't see to many Landos and Primal Groudons running around. Ingame, it's amazing and incredibly self sufficient.

 

#ScizorDidNothingWrong

#FreeScizor

[Paperblade]

Unless the AI is a lot smarter next episode, I'm pretty sure you can just sweep stuff with an SD set. You just need to SD to whatever lets you OHKO everything, then alternate between king's shield + attack to punk everything since you only take hits while in shield form. No priority moves needed, just pick whatever 2 out of Steel STAB, Shadow Claw, Sacred Sword best lets you beat down whatever you're facing. Claw and Gyro Ball are both available TMs so the only cost of switching around is a heart scale for sacred sword.

 

That said, the AI getting a lot smarter is totally possible. idk what all is going on with it in e17 other than it's probably going to stop trying to sludge bomb my chesnaught

Edited November 28, 2017 by Paperblade

[Gh0stStark]

24 minutes ago, Norm said:

King's shield has +4 priority, nothing will outpace it.

Of course, but what will happen when Aegislash decides to attack? That's when you counter Aegislash, when it switches into it's blade forme, and since priority favours the statistically faster, both Greninja and Mimikyu (especially Mimikyu) can be it's downfall just like any pokémon with access to Earthquake and sufficient speed. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Gh0stStark

[Dreamy]

9 minutes ago, Gh0stStark said:

Of course, but what will happen when Aegislash decides to attack? That's when you counter Aegislash, when it switches into it's blade forme, and since priority favours the statistically faster, both Greninja and Mimikyu (especially Mimikyu) can be it's downfall just like any pokémon with access to Earthquake and sufficient speed. 

Doesn't the switch occur just before it attacks though, not at the start of the turn?

[laggless01]

Aegislash's defenses, even in Shield Form, can be overwhelmed by strong attacks (especially now that Z-moves exist), like how I nearly KO'd one (evenly leveled) with an unboosted EQ from Mamoswine while it was in Shield Form;
Additionally, Reborn has field effects that can really mess with damage outputs, making taking hits even more tricky (there are a lot of Ground-, Fire-, Dark- and Ghost-boosting fields).
Also Shadow Sneak is a weak move, so if it doesn't KO, your blade is completely exposed to a counterattack. Even at +2 it can't guarantee a lot of KO's.

The guy is a mon of predictions and mind-games. Sure, you can slaughter you opponent with it in theory, but if you guess wrong you can easily be a mon down for nothing in return. And I doubt everyone playing this game is a top-tier pokemon player that can make the most of it. I certainly am not.  (Not to mention AI's can be ...quirky, so predicting it can have its problems.)

[kithas]

5 minutes ago, DreamblitzX said:

Doesn't the switch occur just before it attacks though, not at the start of the turn?

Then you take shadowsneak (An usually weak attack an unboosted by any abilities) and then hit it. I think Aegislash is only matter of knowing how to hit.

 

I mean, I like very much Aegislash, its design and it's ability and movepool, but it can be countered.

Edited November 29, 2017 by kithas

[Norm]

43 minutes ago, Gh0stStark said:

Of course, but what will happen when Aegislash decides to attack? That's when you counter Aegislash, when it switches into it's blade forme, and since priority favours the statistically faster, both Greninja and Mimikyu (especially Mimikyu) can be it's downfall just like any pokémon with access to Earthquake and sufficient speed. 

Shadow sneak makes contact and triggers a -2 atk drop. Also, on an unrelated note, Greninja would rather run Dark Pulse over Shadow Sneak. (sorry if that sounds pretentious or condescending).

29 minutes ago, laggless01 said:

Aegislash's defenses, even in Shield Form, can be overwhelmed by strong attacks (especially now that Z-moves exist), like how I nearly KO'd one (evenly leveled) with an unboosted EQ from Mamoswine while it was in Shield Form;
Additionally, Reborn has field effects that can really mess with damage outputs, making taking hits even more tricky (there are a lot of Ground-, Fire-, Dark- and Ghost-boosting fields).
Also Shadow Sneak is a weak move, so if it doesn't KO, your blade is completely exposed to a counterattack. Even at +2 it can't guarantee a lot of KO's.

The guy is a mon of predictions and mind-games. Sure, you can slaughter you opponent with it in theory, but if you guess wrong you can easily be a mon down for nothing in return. And I doubt everyone playing this game is a top-tier pokemon player that can make the most of it. I certainly am not.  (Not to mention AI's can be ...quirky, so predicting it can have its problems.)

The problem is that Z-moves, coverage, and field effects don't mutually affect Aegislash. In fact they affect every available 'mon in the game. Shadow Sneak isn't that common (It's only viable on about 3-4 'mons including aegislash. Every pokemon can be theoretically countered (except for M-Rayquaza just because). Blaziken can be countered. Garchomp can be countered. Legendaries can be countered. These pokemon, however are still quite centralizing because of their indomitable strength forcing users to carry a check. Like you can really easily shut down Scizor in theory with any fire-type coverage. In reality, however, Scizor can capitalize of the pokemon it walls to set up and sweep. Aegislash does exactly what Scizor can do and be just as formidable. The incompetent AI is something that is easily cheesed because it doesn't make plays like counter-switching or predictions which pokemon that have an Easy-Bake sweep like Blaziken, Scizor, and Aegislash can capitalize on. Getting to +6 is incredibly easy in ingame Pokemon, which is what exaggerates the power of pokemon like scizor in a setting like this. Point is that I agree with the notion that, while I adore Scizor, he could trivialize the game at about any point after he gets his ideal moveset. What I don't agree with is that Pokemon like Aegislash and other mons with easy set-ups are somehow below Scizor in what they can do. I only think that it is a bit rich to call Scizor OP and centralizing when the likes of Aegislash, Mimikyu, and Blaziken can run around with impunity.

 

[Gh0stStark]

2 hours ago, DreamblitzX said:

Doesn't the switch occur just before it attacks though, not at the start of the turn?

That's why I said Mimikyu is the real trouble. Disguise tanks one Shadow Sneak, then Mimikyu likely use Swords Dance, from then on, it's a sure two hit K.O, even with Aegislash in shield forme. Greninja can't do that, but anything bulky enough with access to earthquake will still kill Aegislash regardless. 

 

Edit: 

2 hours ago, Norm said:

Shadow sneak makes contact and triggers a -2 atk drop. Also, on an unrelated note, Greninja would rather run Dark Pulse over Shadow Sneak

If you're using King's Shield yes, if you're trying to attack, no. As for Greninja, Aegislash will tank Dark Pulse and with Sacred Sword, even unboosted, will very likely kill it.

As someone said above, Aegislash is about prediction and mind games. There are ways to make the A.I. deal with it, which are far more convenient than restricting the entirety of a gym leader's or a boss's team with fire type coverage, which will hurt the potential of some mons.

 

Edit2:

 

@Norm, I understand your point, and I pretty much agree with you to an extent, since Toxapex, Clefable and Chansey (some very challenge damaging pokémon) are all available, and I don't want to derail the topic any further either, so putting hypothetical scenarios apart, I want to clarify that: 

 

-I didn't mean that Aegislash being a mind-game pokémon is a flaw, but that thanks to that, it's probably easier to counter it's impact in the game with coding, by  improving the AI. Sure it's not a perfect solution, and a certain degree of coverage must still be met when building teams, but Amethyst stated that there will be further AI improvements next ep; Scizor on the other hand is far more limiting. Run fire moves on more than one pokémon or it's over. Plain and simple. Ame could give our opponents a rocky helmet or some other way to spam chip damage, but all those tactics will fall short of a true hard counter. 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Gh0stStark

[Norm]

51 minutes ago, Gh0stStark said:

That's why I said Mimikyu is the real trouble. Disguise tanks one Shadow Sneak, then Mimikyu likely use Swords Dance, from then on, it's a sure two hit K.O, even with Aegislash in shield forme. Greninja can't do that, but anything bulky enough with access to earthquake will still kill Aegislash regardless. 

 

Edit: 

If you're using King's Shield yes, if you're trying to attack, no. As for Greninja, Aegislash will tank Dark Pulse and with Sacred Sword, even unboosted, will very likely kill it.

As someone said above, Aegislash is about prediction and mind games. There are ways to make the A.I. deal with it, which are far more convenient than restricting the entirety of a gym leader's or a boss's team with fire type coverage, which will hurt the potential of some mons.

 

 

Ok. First of all. I already know that Aegislash has organinc counters. So does Scizor (Fire type moves, field-boosted STAB,). That does not make his merits any weaker.

 

Second, Mimikyu has to get the predictions right to K.O. Aegislash. Aegislash can take 3 unboosted shadow sneaks. If Mimikyu's sub is broken and is at +2 atk, it either has to predict Aegislash will either attack and Attack with an OHKO move, or it loses its boost to King's Shield Conversely, it could try to predict a King's Shield and get a 2nd Swords Dance or it will get K.O.'ed by Aegislash. Third, Aegislash being a prediction and mind games mon isn't a flaw of his, it is arguably a benefit to be able to put that much pressure on the opposing side and adds a lot of synergy for Aegislash's potential partners.

 

Finally, the only checks to Aegislash are Bulky Ground types and some fast Ghost/Dark types. That is still incredibly centralizing and forces users to allocate resources to their team they may not even need to beat a single pokemon. That is literally the argument that is used against Scizor. I know from experience that the A.I. is easy to capitalize on and that it does not make plays that will shut down any potential sweeps. Aegislash is a pokemon that like Scizor, can come in on a plethora of pokemon, set up Swords Dance, and sweep. Aegislash is not as hard to use as it sounds in this regard: just King's shield when you need defense, tank a hit, and immediately hit back hard.

 

I'm probably done reiterating the argument now because I've addressed what I wanted. I'm not trying to argue that Scizor should be available or that Aegislash should be unavailable. I was only trying to identify a possible hypocrisy in some logic and I apologize for derailing a thread to talk about something rather unrelated to the topic. Your argument would force Leaders to carry more Aegislash counters just to not get annihilated, which is exactly what carrying fire-type moves or steel-resistant pokemon for Scizor would do. I don't think I can elaborate my stance further and I fear the thread possibly being derailed from my bumbling, so I will simply stand by my opinion.

[Mocama_cama]

i want some cool fakemonssss

[Hannes]

Guesses Where palosand will be? I would like to believe amertine beach, but that might be too early into the game

[Mocama_cama]

17 hours ago, GS BALL said:

No chance, sorry. Reborn follows canon gameplay, rulesets and obviously, pokemon and gameplay mechanisms. Closest thing to a fakemon, yet canon and legit, are alolan forms. Be patient for few days and you will have something different to play with! And besides, with 802 pokemon, who would have the time or luxury, to seek even more?

alolan is good too ..  

alolan digtrio is cool

 

 

[Mocama_cama]

[Mocama_cama]

13 hours ago, GS BALL said:

That's grand! Now you made me want to catch one as soon as possible!

i just noticed that youre the same one (with an evil picture) as before

[kithas]

Do you see one of the new available mons (specially Gen VII ones) eventing in a preexisting event?

 

Like for example I see Kiki's event in Byxbision wasteland pretty in lore for Mimikkyu...

Spoiler

As Kiki was very popular before her death, Mimikyu would probably disguise itself as her.

 

PD: In regards to luxury, I am currently stacking myself on big nuggets thanks to my overpowered pickup squad  Being a hoarder is actually well paid off in Reborn!

Edited November 29, 2017 by kithas

[BRS swag]

43 minutes ago, kithas said:

PD: In regards to luxury, I am currently stacking myself on big nuggets thanks to my overpowered pickup squad  Being a hoarder is actually well paid off in Reborn!

You could also fight against Clown Indra in Agate Circus. The one who gives out one shard per battle. He gives around 24k cash per battle and around 47k with a luck incense. Credits to Yagami for this idea.

[kithas]

Just now, BRS swag said:

You could also fight against Clown Indra in Agate Circus. The one who gives out one shard per battle. He gives around 24k cash per battle and around 47k with a luck incense. Credits to Yagami for this idea.

I have also great stocks of shards, money and useful objects, but I'm saving Big Nuggets for when money in EP17 might become scarce  (Or maybe for sponsoring the other city projects)

[BRS swag]

Just out of interest, where do u get Big Nuggets, other than Pickup

[kithas]

2 hours ago, BRS swag said:

Just out of interest, where do u get Big Nuggets, other than Pickup

I remember a canon Big Nugget maybe at the Fortune Teller's? Or maybe in the Lake, I can't recall. I know it wasn't in any restoration project. The rest of them (Like 8 or so) I got them the same place I got the Sacred Ashes, an OP Linoone with pickup

[Bessi]

scizor missing is not a problem for me because i have the better steel/bug type in escavalier.actually it can take hits and after 1 sword dance it destroys the oposition.i swept adrien with my escavalier.

[Azeria]

Any steel type does that lol. Scizor can take hits just as well and unlike Escavalier, actually strike first zzzzz.

[Youmu9]

Well, Escavalier has something over Scizor and that's Megahorn. Not many things can survive a banded Megahorn from this thing on the switch in. Both of it's defenses aren't bad either so speed isn't that much of an issue for it. But Scizor does have better utility as an attacker with it's priority moves. I just like Escavalier better.

[The Swordsman]

23 hours ago, Mocama_cama said:

i want some cool fakemonssss

Besides the aloahan forms there are also the non usable Pulse Pokemon.

 

[Mocama_cama]

20 hours ago, BRS swag said:

You could also fight against Clown Indra in Agate Circus. The one who gives out one shard per battle. He gives around 24k cash per battle and around 47k with a luck incense. Credits to Yagami for this idea.

where can i got the luck incense ?