ULTRAAAA! ULTRAAAA! ULTRAAA!...Sun and Moon

[Azeria]

29 minutes ago, Eagleby18 said:

I can't help but notice everyone's talking about these games as if they are an "emerald" situation and not sequels.  Was this confirmed somewhere and I missed it?

 

Also lol at people comparing Alolan forms to megas.  Look at Beedrill and Ratticate.  Both were gen 1 early game trash.  One got an Alolan form.  The other a mega.  Guess which one's still trash.

Look at Audino, now look at Alolan Marowak. Both were trash, both got forms. Guess which one's top tier OU?

[Filthy Casual]

I remember that there were supposed to be another bunch of Alola forms we never got from the Chinese leaks. Of course, almost none of them came to Sun/Moon. Still, I would love to see them come to Ultra Sun/Moon. Imagine what a Mega Alolan Alakazam would look like! That would be fun to use!

[Zargerth]

20 hours ago, Jess said:

Just to clarify...

http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/slowking/

As you can see, Slowking is an NU mon that functions as an OU mon too in S/M.

 

I didn't speak as of Game Freak way of thinking. I spoke based on usual logic. OU mons DON'T need another form. They are popular already. 

Also, despite of the fact that Alolan forms aren't a power boost, they are a popularity boost which should be given to dull, underused mons, not to OU mons. Again, not the way they think, the way they SHOULD think for sure though.

In this case, Dugtrio didn't need Alolan form either, yet I don't see you being unhappy with the fact that Dugtrio got Alolan form (which is ranked way lower than regular Dugtrio). Then there are the mons that aren't ranked high in Smogon rankings but are still loved by many people, like regular Ninetales. Smogon ranking isn't equal with popularity, but competitive performance. Weak and/or underused mons benefit from new moves, abilities and stat buffs. Pelipper is a prime example of this. New forms are cool, but not that necessary. To be fair the same can be said about the mons that already do well competitively as well.

 

Besides, it's the fifth gen that got the least amount of "popularity boosts". It's the fifth gen mons that should get these "popularity boosts" (especially Simisear since not only it's PU but also Japan's least favorite). On a side note Alolan Alomomola sounds hilarious, Alolan Scrafty with Team Skull touch sounds kinda cool on paper at least. But I digress, Smogon ranking shouldn't dictate which mons get new forms. There aren't mons that either deserve or don't deserve new forms, there are mons you want or don't want to get new forms.

 

31 minutes ago, Slothpremacy said:

Look at Audino, now look at Alolan Marowak. Both were trash, both got forms. Guess which one's top tier OU?

Look at Dugtrio. Now look at Alolan Dugtrio. Guess which one is OU? This logic goes both ways.

[Jess]

42 minutes ago, Zargerth said:

In this case, Dugtrio didn't need Alolan form either, yet I don't see you being unhappy with the fact that Dugtrio got Alolan form (which is ranked way lower than regular Dugtrio). Then there are the mons that aren't ranked high in Smogon rankings but are still loved by many people, like regular Ninetales. Smogon ranking isn't equal with popularity, but competitive performance. Weak and/or underused mons benefit from new moves, abilities and stat buffs. Pelipper is a prime example of this. New forms are cool, but not that necessary. To be fair the same can be said about the mons that already do well competitively as well.

 

Besides, it's the fifth gen that got the least amount of "popularity boosts". It's the fifth gen mons that should get these "popularity boosts" (especially Simisear since not only it's PU but also Japan's least favorite). On a side note Alolan Alomomola sounds hilarious, Alolan Scrafty with Team Skull touch sounds kinda cool on paper at least. But I digress, Smogon ranking shouldn't dictate which mons get new forms. There aren't mons that either deserve or don't deserve new forms, there are mons you want or don't want to get new forms.

 

Look at Dugtrio. Now look at Alolan Dugtrio. Guess which one is OU? This logic goes both ways.

Popularity DOES go hand in hand with power, undoubtedly. You must be naive to think otherwise.

But Let's just agree that we disagree. We'll see ridiculous stuff like Alolan Garchomp soon enough.

[Zargerth]

17 minutes ago, Jess said:

Popularity DOES go hand in hand with power, undoubtedly. You must be naive to think otherwise.

But Let's just agree that we disagree. We'll see ridiculous stuff like Alolan Garchomp soon enough.

You're correct. I would say, however, that power isn't the only contributing factor to popularity (legendaries being an exclusion). The point I was trying to make is that a new form of already powerful mon isn't necessarily as powerful as or more powerful than the original, especially since we're talking about more changes than stat buffs like Rotom forms. That's why I keep mentioning Alolan Dugtrio. New forms aren't the only solution either. One might even argue that it's the Alolan/ new form that is popular, not the original. You see, Alolan Marowak is in fact a powerful mon, but regular Marowak is still the same old Marowak. Whether they are the same or separate mons is a different can of worms, though.

 

I can agree with you on that less used mons should be the ones to get new forms. I just agree for different reasons, and those simply put are my personal preferences, not to boost popularity. This means that I'm not completely opposed to what you deem strong Pokemon to get a new form either. With that said, I wouldn't be particularly thrilled with Alolan Rayquaza, neither with Mega Origin Primal Ash Alolan Midnight Mewtwo X.

[Jess]

2 hours ago, Zargerth said:

power isn't the only contributing factor to popularity (legendaries being an exclusion)

The only factors that contribute to popularity is power and design (level of "badassness/dopeness"/cuteness). And giving a new design to a 'mon is definitely an attempt to make it more popular. That's why I believe that these attempts should be directed towards weaker/less popular 'mons.

 

2 hours ago, Zargerth said:

a new form of already powerful mon isn't necessarily as powerful as or more powerful than the original, especially since we're talking about more changes than stat buffs like Rotom forms.

I agree with this, but this also applies to Megas. It is not impossible for a Mega to be worse than the original, albeit it is rare indeed. e.g. Mega Garchomp sucks in comparison to the plain old Garchomp. The thing is that, both Alolan forms and Megas share some attributes.

They are new forms of an already existant pokemon with different typing and stat distribution. The only difference is that Megas gain a boost in total Base stats while Alolan forms don't. Also, Alolan forms get a slightly (or vastly) different moveset compared to the original.

Plus, Alolan forms came to replace Mega evolutions in Game Freak's release of SM, so it isn't entirely wrong to compare them.

 

2 hours ago, Zargerth said:

You see, Alolan Marowak is in fact a powerful mon, but regular Marowak is still the same old Marowak. Whether they are the same or separate mons is a different can of worms, though

It is the same pokemon with different typing and moveset. The design is an edited design of the original one. It could as well be a shiny in Reborn. Reborn's shiny Rapidash for example (the rainbow unicorn one) could easily be a Fairy/Fire Alolan Rapidash. So, I believe that the official naming is correct. "Regional variable" of the same pokemon species.

 

2 hours ago, Zargerth said:

This means that I'm not completely opposed to what you deem strong Pokemon to get a new form either.

Strong pokemon don't need a new form. The scenarios if they get one are two. Either it is a success and they gain (even more) popularity, while weaker 'mons struggle and keep getting ignored, or it is a weaker version of the original, like Alolan Dugtrio. In either of these cases, it is a failure for the (different in each case) aforementioned reasons.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Jess

[Tringus]

I don't think we'll be seeing Alolan forms of Pokemon that already existed in Sun and Moon, but we just might, seeing as they're alternate stories of Sun and Moon.

 

Seeing as that comes to mind, I would speculate we may finally get Alolan Arcanine (I am still a believer of it!), and some other potential leaked Alolan forms.  Probably not ones such as Electibuzz, Jynx, or Magmar families, but it doesn't hurt to speculate Kanto Pokemon still.  However, since Alola also seems to have some Johto-themed aspect, I would imagine Johto Alolan forms to come around as well.

[Rosesong]

9 hours ago, Eagleby18 said:

I can't help but notice everyone's talking about these games as if they are an "emerald" situation and not sequels.  Was this confirmed somewhere and I missed it?

 

Also lol at people comparing Alolan forms to megas.  Look at Beedrill and Ratticate.  Both were gen 1 early game trash.  One got an Alolan form.  The other a mega.  Guess which one's still trash.

No Eagle, it hasn't been confirmed if these are third versions or sequels yet 

[MisterGutsy]

TBH, do we really need more Alolan forms? GameFreak don't seem to know what they're doing. In gen 6, they introduced Mega Evolution and it was ok, even though some would argue it makes the Pokemon who get it absurdly strong compared to others. Now in gen 7 they found this new alternative to Mega Evolution in regional variants, but is it really an improvement? For one, most regional variants suck just as badly as the original form, some even worse. At least with Mega Evolution, you know that the pokemon that gets it will get a serious boost in power. I don't know, GameFreak just seems desperate to introduce new things but they don't seem to be thinking it through enough, as is the case with Mega Evolution, which they now seem to have cast aside and all but forget about. I'd much rather they came up with new pokemon instead of this regional variant cheese, or even mega evolution.

[Zargerth]

How many more new Pokemon we really need? I'm not saying there shouldn't be any, but the more Pokemon we get, the more underused and weak Pokemon we get. New Pokemon are hit-or-miss like regional variants. Besides, maybe it's just me but I'm not looking forward to the day I need 2000 mons to complete my Pokedex.  I'm not a huge fan of Mega Evolutions either. I mean, would you use Mega Stantler over Mega Kangaskhan or Lopunny? Perhaps you would, if Mega Stantler was incredibly broken that is. There's a good chance that Mega Evolutions for weaker mons aren't enough to push their popularity or usage significantly. Of course, if new Mega Evolutions are either overpowered or given to already powerful mons, they become new absurdly strong mons. And that, depending on how you look at it, either is exactly the purpose or defeats the purpose.

[CURIE]

So anyway, back to the actual game this thread is about:  the Corocoro scan of Dusk Lycanroc finally came out, dunno what took it so long.  It confirms that he still has Accelerock (and Counter, but who cares about that lol), and his ability is... Tough Claws?  That's actually really good.  As long as he keeps the day form's speed this will undoubtedly be the best Lycanroc form.

 

...Until you realize he has no STAB moves that benefit from it, that is.  Unless this form gets head smash or something, his only rock type contact move is accelerock.

[Wolfox]

Even if just accelerock would get boosted by tough claws stab wise, he will probably get other moves that can benefit from it, like Fire Fang

[Jess]

2 minutes ago, Zargerth said:

back when Steel and Fairy were introduced

On a scale of 1 to 10, having a Sound typing for mons like Noivern, Exploud, etc and moves like Boomburst, Uproar, etc. would hit 11 for its awesomeness.

[Wolfox]

2 minutes ago, Jess said:

On a scale of 1 to 10, having a Sound typing for mons like Noivern, Exploud, etc and moves like Boomburst, Uproar, etc. would hit 11 for its awesomeness.

I agree to an extent, but I think a new Ability amplifying Sound Moves (Like Liquid voice but not terribly limited) would be more likely, or if nothing else an item

[Jess]

2 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I agree to an extent, but I think a new Ability amplifying Sound Moves (Like Liquid voice but not terribly limited) would be more likely, or if nothing else an item

Indeed  

I just said what I'd like to see, but of course, no new type introduction is going to happen now, because I believe types are balanced just OK as they are!

But seeing that we have an Ablility like Levitate that renders Ground type attacks useless, having Soundproof does point towards the distant possibility of getting (sometime, maybe probably not) a Sound typing!

[Wolfox]

maybe. All I'm hoping for right now is maybe a Mimikyu buff

[Jess]

1 minute ago, Wolfox said:

maybe. All I'm hoping for right now is maybe a Mimikyu buff

Really?  

I thought it was considered very strong already, with the awesome ability it has, as well as Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak priority and Focus Sash.

But I haven't played anything Gen VII related yet, so I might be wrong.

[Wolfox]

oh, Mimikyu is powerful. it stands proud and tall in the OU tier and is a must have on ghost mono type teams. I just wanna see how far Game freak can push the envelope with the Pikachu clone (the first good one, may I add. if you don't count the Marill line as Pikachu clones that is, which I personally do). And can you see the Ghost Trial with a buffed Mimikyu

[Jess]

4 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

oh, Mimikyu is powerful. it stands proud and tall in the OU tier and is a must have on ghost mono type teams. I just wanna see how far Game freak can push the envelope with the Pikachu clone (the first good one, may I add. if you don't count the Marill line as Pikachu clones that is, which I personally do). And can you see the Ghost Trial with a buffed Mimikyu

If Mimikyu gets slightly faster, it will go straight into Ubers I think. 

I don't have extreme LOVE for Pikachu clones, but my new custom run of Rejuvenation will make me use some of these inevitably, and I am weirdly excited about this!  

[Wolfox]

I actually think increasing its speed and maybe attack to base 100 in a new form won't even make it that OP, as it's not a huge buff, but knowing GF: If they buff something, they buff it good

[Jess]

1 minute ago, Wolfox said:

I actually think increasing its speed and maybe attack to base 100 in a new form won't even make it that OP, as it's not a huge buff, but knowing GF: If they buff something, they buff it good

Its only disadvantage is that it is kinda slow and with a kinda meh Attack to be in Ubers. If they buff these two, then we will have an Uber mon I am afraid...

 

But I doubt that all the hype around Ultra S/M will bring huge changes or introduce amazing stuff. I'm not optimistic here...

[Wolfox]

I try to stay positive about it. I don't expect the world, thus I'm usually happy with what I get

[Zargerth]

Just now, Jess said:

Its only disadvantage is that it is kinda slow and with a kinda meh Attack to be in Ubers. If they buff these two, then we will have an Uber mon I am afraid...

 

But I doubt that all the hype around Ultra S/M will bring huge changes or introduce amazing stuff. I'm not optimistic here...

Iirc there was 4chan "rumors" (a.k.a. leaks that have yet to be proven true or false) in which it was stated that Mimikyu gets Horror form, its typing changes to Ghost/Dark.

[Filthy Casual]

...this is getting awkward...

 

...but what are your thoughts on the Lycanroc news? Apparently, it's got Tough Claws for its ability while retaining Accelerock.

[Wolfox]

Oh, I love the new Lycanroc news. It being my second favorite mon I was happy to see the new form, now with this news, I actually screamed into my pillow out of happiness