How will the Gen 7 starters fare in Reborn ?

[Dshuks]

With gen 7 Pokemon being added to version 17 how do you think the starters will fare in Reborn? 

 

Personally I think The Primarina line will  be the most useful.  Fairy is just a pretty useful type in reborn due to  the glut of dark types. One downside is that it will struggle during the early game imo. 

 

Decidueye will fare the worst in Reborn imo it's  too slow and it's typing gives it too many weaknesses. 

 

[Maqqy]

Decidueye:

 

- Can be both physical and special attacker with 107/100 offensive stats.

- Has good coverage moves especially with spirit shackle.

- One of the best grass types.

- An okay ability with Long Reach.

- Mediocre speed stat.

- A powerhouse in reborn if you use your cards right.

 

Incineroar:

 

- A great ability with Intimidate.

- Powerful moves like Darkest Lariat, Flare Blitz, Outrage, Trash and Cross Chop. Learns Bulk up for a potential sweeper.

- A great fire type which would fare well in reborn with its advantages in field effects.

- A 60 speed stat...

- Can be an ace with foes like Shade and Radomus.

 

Primarina:

 

- Good typing with water/fairy, a fierce special attacker with 126 stat and also good defensively.

- Some of it's moves are lacking till it evolves to its final stage.

- Good moves with Hydro Pump, Moonblast and Misty Terrain.

- Liquid Voice is meh. Torrent is a better ability.

- A slow mon. May struggle with fast powerful attackers.

- It's typing is a force in Reborn (considering how good Azumarill is) and could be useful in almost all gym challenges.

 

 

Overall, Primarina would be the solid choice among the three. Still depends on your gameplay whichever you choose. Primarina for a bulky attacker, Decidueye for an offensive pivot and Incineroar for a powerful sweeper.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Maqqy
I'm a clutz

[Hymdall]

Honestly?  All 3 will likely be fine overall, with some of them being better in certain parts depending on the situation.  Incineroar, for example, would completely and utterly dunk on everything Shade knows and loves.  Decidueye is never going to be bad, as Ghost types tend to always find some use in Reborn, and Ghost/Grass is an interesting typing.  Primarina, as you mentioned, has the most generically good typing of the three, and good STABs(Surf/Sparkling Aria/Hydro Pump and Moonblast)to spam.  Their major problem is the problem that's gonna plague a loooot of Alola Pokemon: they're slow.  Two base 60s and a base 70(Decidueye) are...not going to doing you any favors.  Anyways, some quick pros/cons I suppose.

 

 

 

Decidueye

Pros

- Ghost/Grass is a nice typing, defensively and offensively.

- Spirit Shackle is a great STAB option, effectively physical Shadow Ball for Decidueye with a trap effect instead of a Sp.Def drop chance.

- Good bulk of 78/75/100

- Mixed offenses AND access to both Nasty Plot(Level up) and Swords Dance(TM, unavailable currently).

 

Cons

- Special movepool doesn't exist without TMs, most of which we don't have(Shadow Ball for people who started E15, Energy Ball as well)

- That speed is still mediocre at best sometimes.

- Whilst its offenses are good, you really want to be able to boost up before you attack.

- Ghost/Grass is an awkward typing sometimes.  Looking at you, bulky Dark types.

 

Incineroar

 

Pros

- Assuming Hidden Abilities of the starters are available, easily has the best of the 3 in Intimidate.

- Darkest Lariat is a strong as hell Dark move that ignores any stat boosts, useful!

- 95/90/90 bulk is QUITE good, and base 115 attack isn't something to snuff at either.

- Natural access(via relearner or level up) to: Flare Blitz, Bulk Up, and Cross Chop alongside nicher moves like Outrage and Swagger.

 

Cons

- Dark/Fire whilst a good offensive typing, leaves a bit to be desired defensively.

- Once again, slooooooow.

- Little bit of a suicide attacker, a la Staraptor.  You're probably going to hit Flare Blitz a lot and that damage racks up.

 

 

Primarina

 

Pros

- Water/Fairy is an AMAZING typing, one of the best around.

- Natural movepool basically has all you need: Hydro Pump, Sparkling Aria, and Moonblast.  Let's hope Ice Beam comes soon.

- 126 special attack and 116 special defense.  This thing can sponge a special hit and retaliate HARD.

- No seriously I don't think you understand how hard Primarina hits.  Choice Specs are available now, hop to it people!

 

Cons

- Slow and physically frail, not a great combination.  80/74 is ok, much like Decidueye, but it's still a tad frailer than you'd like.

- Its best single targetting Water attack is Hydro Pump, at best unreliable.  This can be awkward given how many Double Battles we tend to find ourselves in.

- Honestly I'm having a little trouble finding some flaws here.  Primarina is pretty generically good as they come.
 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Hymdall

[Wolfox]

you're quite wrong about decidueye compadre. While it's not the best, it has enough boons to make it a pretty useful mon in reborn. Primarina will most likely be pretty good, however, I think Incineroar will be the best of the 3. It has the best divided natural bulk, it's typing is incredible for both offense and to an extend defense. allow me to explain: dark has 3 weaknesses in fighting, bug, and fairy. slap fire on a dark type, and suddenly only one of them remains. while no fire weaknesses are dropped, it grants a total of 4 weaknesses in fighting, rock, water, and ground. 3 of which are mainly good for physical offense, so Intimidate can help a lot. now to rig on Primarina: it has competition. Primarina is not the only water fairy mon. And if you believe Smogon, not the best either. It has to box up with Azumarill, which is no easy battle. It's a pick your poison kind of scenario: Would you rather have a physical wrecking ball with enough HP to be bulky when needed or a special cannon with enough spdef to tank a few flash cannons. The other 2 also have competition, but not as much BY FAR. Decidueye has Gourgheist and Trevenant to worry about, both of which do more of a stally role, so he's save to pick as an attacker. Incineroar has Houndoom, where you literally choose between physical and special, and Incineriar kinda holds the edge there.

 

But that's just my 2 cents on how they will fare.

Also @Maqqy, he was talking about starters, not gen 7 mons in general.

[Monochrome_Complex]

So far fire in general has fared better than the other two typings, since we've gotten numerous fields to take advantage of such

 

Intimidate is a great ability, and litten has nice bulk. You can also breed it fake out relatively early  if you're willing to settle with a female since meowth is found early in the game. To me it seems best suited for the numerous doubles matches in the game.

[Paperblade]

Decidueye probably the worst but it's still good for a grass starter. Ghost is a good typing and it gets some flying/dark coverage, which immediately puts its movepool above like every other Grass starter

 

Primarina vs. Incineroar is hard to say. Water/Fairy and Fire/Dark are both good typings, Primarina's pure power is better, but Incineroar has coverage options + Intimidate and Bulk Up but takes recoil from its good Fire move and its second best is pretty far behind. Both decently bulky but slow

[dotahkin01]

Well it be unfair to compare them with blaziken, greninja and serperior (IMO). And marshstomp (for me) has the best typing and available STAB-moves. However! A starter is a pokemon you'd use in your main team througout the entire game and primarina to me seems the most interesting and i would use it over the remaining water starters, atleast thats how i feel about starters. 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by dotahkin01

[Maqqy]

@Wolfox I'm sorry I missed that. Thank you for mentioning

[iDunno]

Primarina: with its great special stats and typing, is easily the best of the three. Only problem is, again, speed, and how to fill that fourth move slot (Hydro Pump/Surf + Moonblast + Misty Terrain + ?)

Decidueye: is a little underwhelming performance-wise, because he has average speed, and not the biggest physical movepool. Not to mention that 100 base Special Attack is a waste, since not only no one uses that Special Attack, but Decidueye doesn't learn by lvl up any special moves! Most people who use Decidueye will use the same set (Swords Dance + Spirit Shackle + Leaf Blade + Sucker Punch), and that doesn't cover a lot of Pokemon, not to mention Swords Dance is not yet available in Pokemon Reborn, so you are gonna have to rely on its natural unboosted Attack during most of the game (if not until the post-game), which would not be so bad if it were a little faster.

Incineroar: has easily the most useful hidden ability of the three, great Attack and lvl up movepool, good bulk, but is also the slowest fire starter. Also, I personally dislike using physical fire types, since their most reliable STAB move gives recoil (at least Emboar and Blaziken have Heat Crash and Blaze Kick). 

 

But honestly, if you know how to use them (or is just stubborn enough), you can make any starter work in Pokemon Reborn. There are arguably more underwhelming starters than those three, and people use them just fine.

[Zqrfmb]

Primarina can wreck Samson with its typing and his terrain.

[Lightp]

Yeah Primarina by a fair margin. Solid SpD and SpA, respectable speed, great typing. Her main downside is her bad HA. 

[Exalted]

If i had to give an analysis without a single room for bias or doubt. I will give this to inceneroar as far as reborn is of the concern.

 Now why you may ask its the following reasons:

 

 

-Intimidate is an amazing utility specially for reborn's boss battles and doubles battles.

-Its Movepool is good without the help of Tms and Move tutors with coverage options that are solid and USUM gives it double kick which if is patched in will give it a better early game matchup.

-It has the best early game type match ups vs the gym leaders among them and for a starter early game matchups matter more than late game.

-Its Typing isnt the best i agree 100% but for reborn it dose not truly suffer up till Samson and terra(against whom Intimidate and vs certain mons he still has utility) as far as matchups are of concern and by that point you should have plenty of mons to cover those guys.

-It actully works very well cause of its change from speed to bulk.If you didnt get what i meant as a litten and torracat it has solid speed and offensive stats for the point in the game it is used in with 85/80/90 speed and offensive stats with intimidate it really helps torracat put some holes in the early game type matchups and mons and later game its bulk allowing it to survive longer helps it provide the utility it which is a role it will likely be left with after it goes late game but you surely will have better mons by that point.

 

Now i will surely address the other starters as well though not in to much detail.

Primarina it is a solid mon but it does suffer early on with with the first few gym leaders shitting on it and really not holding up an advantage uptill the mid game this is made more apparent by its movepool which is normal,water and fairy moves and us not getting good coverage TMs uptill late game and even then thats barely anything though it does perform solid late game but by the point incenroar had the advantage early game this dosent really make primarina a godsend cause by that point you should have plenty more options and Azumarill really outclasses primarina though the special and physical does make a difference Azumarill overall is much better so yeah main evaluation is simple its a solid mon but it suffering early game and being here and there on match ups for reborn its mediocre at best and its HA is worthless and torrent is torrent.

 

and finally Decidueye i will not lie i wanted him to be the best the strongest among these guys but i will be 100% honest he may actually be the worst among all 3 of them this is mainly cause of his added flying type and then ghost he really goes here and there as far as reborn in concerned he does hold advantage against specific battles and story points but again does not excel at any of them an example of why he fails is cause of his flying typing he goes neutral against the first gym but holds an advantage on the second ebside cradilly ofc but suffers again vs poison and bug unless you evolve him where he goes neutral and oh god i am going to be honest Shade wrecks this owl by the mons he has in the current episode lets just ignore the potential mons in the E17 and after this point almost everyone you face has coverage against ghost and grass types and beside specific fights so yeah he is very neutral and dosent really successfully go against much in this game so yeah do ignore this birb as he is probably going to be an ingame event for those who like it but in reborn he is just plain bad.

 

 

Now i will say this is is my opinion specifically regarding reborn and overall as far as starters are concerned Blaziken is still overall the best and Greninja is second.

 

If you want to point out something i missed do point it out and ill try to answer your argument or change my verdict if you do convince me.

 

Also i will point out for everyone that is judging them on competitive basis that in game works far differently and i judged them by the tools they have for reborn at which they all go here and there.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Exalted