Administrators Popular Post Amethyst Posted November 28, 2017 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2017 It was funny for a while. But that was a while ago. This really isn't just about -that- question though. It's about a lot of questions that newcomers tend to show up and ask. They're just wee littles. They didn't know we had an FAQ for the game. They didn't know someone asked the same damn question in the discord chat two hours ago, and they didn't know that was a known bug. Cuz honestly, who's gonna scroll through walls of text and topics if you just want a quick answer so you can keep playing your gosh-darned pocketmans? I'm not saying that it's ideal for users to not look through pre-existing topics, or that we shouldn't encourage them to use pre-existing resources..... but not everyone is going to think to do that in the first place. And so, for those times when someone does end up asking a common or should-be-obvious question, I'd like to ask you all, as veteran/senior/senpai members of the site, a favor: Please be patient with others. It very well may be the seventh person today to show up asking if Mega Evolution is in the game yet. I understand that after so many times of seeing that question, it gets frustrating. It's like how have you managed to not see the answer to this yet when someone probably just said it half an hour ago and also eight times yesterday?? ...But is it really that person's fault? It may be obvious to you but for someone who just found the game two hours ago and has been having fun but was curious and just wants to ask a hopefully-friendly community for a quick answer (and they might even be a bit nervous about speaking up at all)-- getting a snappy reply back can feel really bad. In fact, it can be the difference between them fucking right off, or hey, maybe they like it here and end up being someone who sticks around to help other newcomers too. Whenever I talk about this, I'm reminded of a certain comic. Many of you are probably intimately familiar with it: And if you haven't seen it before, then I guess you're one of-- oh. nevermind. I won't go for the low-hanging fruit. But that's just things that everyone knows-- let alone things no one knows (including me!!) like when is episode 17 going to be out. And when someone is asking something like that, it's usually not out of impatience so much as it is a genuine excitement or curiosity. It's something people can look forward to. After hearing that question so much as regulars around the site, I totally get how it would become grating over a while. But you know what? I've been doing this-- answering those kinds of questions-- a lot longer and a lot more than most of you. And if I can still be patient with those people-- and I can-- then you can too. I would love to lead by example in that regard, and I hope that some of you have seen that when I can, I do. But I definitely can't always be there. I can't always be paying to the chat or all the forum topics-- There's just not enough time, and even more limiting, I only have so much energy to spend towards such things as well. ...Which is also exactly why I need everyone else to step up. And also? I get it-- maybe you don't have the energy to type out a pleasant response to the same question for the 100th time total. It happens. In that case... rather than typing something passive aggressive or that makes you sound annoyed with another person, just-- don't. That's preferable. It's like that old platitude-- if you don't have anything nice to say......... let someone else say it instead. But let's make sure that, whatever we say, we can be proud of it as a community. It would really mean a lot to me to see people come together on this more. Thanks for listening. 20 7 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeFailure Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 When is e17 com- In all seriousness yes to all of this and thank you great overlord ame. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Ah finally , i was hoping for a modo to make a general big topic of this to prevent ( or at least trying to prevent ) newcomers to keep asking the same question and **** us in the same time. Thanks Ame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 usually, when I say that it gets delayed I say that it's just a running gag here because I don't wish to come off as snappy. however, I do take a little issue with the question. because if they don't know when it's getting out, no matter how long they've been playing. Why would we know it and not have it in an obvious place on the forums? maybe I'm just a very stupid person for thinking like that and maybe it's showing how bad my social skills are, but that's just my 2 cents about it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) And there are no questions about it , just one thing to know : ep 17 will be out WHEN IT WILL BE OUT. Maybe things will be more clear now. Edited November 28, 2017 by Zarc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howin Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Interesting to read this, never seen thoughts on this topic before. I think it's a good place to stand on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainlove Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Oh Sweety no rush on anything~ This is your game and you only decide when to release it. The community is just so grateful for your creation it's creating so much hype. Nonetheless, take all the time you need. We'll be waiting here...you know.....making fun of each others! lol ~ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seki108 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) I do have to comment that most people asking repeat questions (not about the release date but other things) seem to not notice the very visible "SEARCH" bar at the top right. I know from experience that it can come up with very inaccurate and random results, but usually simple phrases yield the answer/thread you are looking for. Honestly question for everyone on here: On websites when you are trying to find something do you A) try the search bar to see if you can find what you are looking for or B ) try navigating sub-menus (or the site's equivalent) until you find it (or give up)? (This question is just about how you search something, not particularly about asking questions on a forum). I only answer repeat questions anymore if I can control myself from giving an exasperated answer (Steam Eruption Dendeye), since I know that can scare off newcomers (or at least give them the wrong impression---I don't want to become Insurgence's community). Edited November 28, 2017 by seki108 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @seki108 B But there is one thing i do when i register on a forum for the first time : introduce myself. And not directly create a topic called " any idea when ep 17 came out ??????? please please please " and then vanish when i got my answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @seki108 A. Look it up before asking. Deductive Reasoning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Popular Post Ikaru Posted November 28, 2017 Administrators Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2017 Quote Ah finally , i was hoping for a modo to make a general big topic of this to prevent ( or at least trying to prevent ) newcomers to keep asking the same question and **** us in the same time. - And there are no questions about it , just one thing to know : ep 17 will be out WHEN IT WILL BE OUT. Maybe things will be more clear now. - But there is one thing i do when i register on a forum for the first time : introduce myself. And not directly create a topic called " any idea when ep 17 came out ??????? please please please " and then vanish when i got my answer. You've managed to miss the entire point of the post. This is not to prevent newcomers from asking the same question nor "**** us" (whatever that's supposed to mean...). This is to establish that we are expected to be patient with new users asking questions for the first time. We have the answers and we've seen these questions a thousand times but they do not and they have not. It is incredibly off-putting to be ridiculed or have dumb inside jokes thrown at you instead of an actual answer to the question that you put yourself out there to ask. It's not solely about the game either. Additionally, there's still a negative preconception of new users in your last message which is exactly what we're looking to avoid. The latest person to introduce themselves barely even mentioned the game and when they did it was solely to say they weren't familiar with it. The rest was a perfectly legitimate introduction. Quote usually, when I say that it gets delayed I say that it's just a running gag here because I don't wish to come off as snappy. however, I do take a little issue with the question. because if they don't know when it's getting out, no matter how long they've been playing. Why would we know it and not have it in an obvious place on the forums? maybe I'm just a very stupid person for thinking like that and maybe it's showing how bad my social skills are, but that's just my 2 cents about it Again, the point is not the repeated questions that we may or may not have the answers to, the point is the manner of response. Instead of "It'll be out when it's out" or "everyone time someone asks ame delays it hehe xdddd," direct them to the devblog page on the site. Answer legitimately. "We don't know any better than you do, but you can keep up with it with the rest of us here." "This post details the new testing process; it's currently in the beta phase and should be done with that soon, and after that it will be available to the community as a whole." Quote Oh Sweety no rush on anything~ This is your game and you only decide when to release it. The community is just so grateful for your creation it's creating so much hype. Nonetheless, take all the time you need. We'll be waiting here...you know.....making fun of each others! lol ~ I'm sure Amethyst appreciates the kind words but that is only a fraction of what this post is for. And I don't think making fun of each other is the example she intends for us to lead by. Quote I only answer repeat questions anymore if I can control myself from giving an exasperated answer (Steam Eruption Dendeye), since I know that can scare off newcomers (or at least give them the wrong impression---I don't want to become Insurgence's community). Please don't make it sound difficult as if you have to "control yourself." It isn't. Give an answer they're looking for or say nothing. 5 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seki108 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @Wolfox I was just asking about which search method people used (search query or manual exploration), not about whether you look before creating a topic to ask a question. Edited my post to clarify; sorry if I worded it weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ainz Ooal Gown Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @Ikaru, the point is just be nice to everyone right? Gotcha man, i'm usually can be nice, but i just like @Wolfox mostly, just for fun and giggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @Ikaru i admit i was a little rude on my points here and i'm sorry for this. I understand that we need to be more patient with newcomers ok , but i don't understand when you said that we just need to redirect them on this thread instead . They will see the thread and then what ? Episode will be delayed no matter what , and at the end they will say " oh sorry my bad didn't saw it " whereas it's written in black and white just right here. I personnally think this topic can prevent sort of thing to happen on the future cause this is the first thread they are supposed to see when they come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimikyu Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 This is where I would of put the joke of Whens Episode 18? But in all seriousness I totally agree with the post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Ikaru Posted November 28, 2017 Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2017 Not this thread, I specified the development blog. That's where they'll be able to follow progress, if with nothing beyond Ame's occasional comments below the progress bars. If someone doesn't have an answer themselves, they can link that at least. If the answer isn't there it might not be anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojama Yellow Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 pretty much what @Ikaru said. this topic can be helpful to the newer people that would like to know when e17 will be out, considering its explicitly stated here that it isnt yet, but its not meant as a message for the newbies. its moreso meant to change the mentality of the veteran members. @Zarc I see what you meant with 'first post gotta be introducing yourself', I really do. point of the matter is that not everyone is interested in becoming a solid member of this community. they may have just heard about the game, and want to try it for themselves. in the meantime, a lot of people are mentioning this strange new thing known as 'episode 17'. maybe they will look it up a bit. some topics arise, but most of them are either pretty old or dont give a definite answer. so even if the newbie did their research, they may still be stuck with a good amount of questions, the most notable being 'when is e17 going to be out?', considering they 1. want to play the game real badly, 2. want to play the latest version of the game and 3. arent 100% sure whether or not the so-called e17 is already out now or not. also, keep in mind that for people like you, who come on this forum every day, navigating is a breeze. you find everything you would ever want to find, because youre used to the layout, the structure and whatnot. people that just came on here may have never dealt with a forum like this before. they have literally not the slightest clue where to look for what, because theres so much info everywhere and its honestly really overwhelming. and please dont try to tell me that its easy to navigate this place, because even I had trouble to do so after the most recent site update, and that was after knowing this forum for a solid two years and a half. anyway, until they figure out how exactly this forum operates, they settle for the easiest way to find out whether e17 has been released yet- asking the veteran members. its not my intention to go around and steal the fun of you guys, 'specially since im barely around myself anymore, but I do agree with ame that potential new members might get pushed away by this. its not because theyre initially uninterested to join the community that they will continue to be. also again @Zarc double ping whoopsie doodles but id assume ikaru meant this post when he mentioned 'this post details etc etc', rather than literally this topic. or at least something that looks alike to it, cuz I have absolutely no clue where to find the best post that describes what stage e17 is at rn. edit: ikaru2fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) @DemICE yes i understand totally. But what's the point if at the end episode is delayed ? What i'm trying to say is this actual topic can help us to avoid a lot of topics called " any ideas when ep 17 will be out ? ". Cause as Bibs said and i'm totally agree with it , many peoples aren't familiar with forums and it's kinda hard to find the dev blog. So maybe this one will help who knows. Ame is probably receiving a lot of messages asking her when ep will came out and i understand it can be annoying at the end. When i often answer " it will be out when it will be out " , it's not my intention to be rude , just pure logic . Apologizes if i'm annoying about it. Looks like i'm pain in the neck on this one Edited November 28, 2017 by Zarc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Amethyst Posted November 28, 2017 Author Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, Zarc said: Ame is probably receiving a lot of messages asking her when ep will came out and i understand it can be annoying at the end. I do get asked that frequently, and it's possible that I have griped about it in the past. But at this point, it doesn't really phase me at all because like I said in the post I understand that those people-- even the ones who do come off as rude directly to me (not that that's a good thing)-- are just excited to play it too. Even now my tag line on the development blog isn't because I'm annoyed, I'm just poking fun at the fact that I don't know either. So nobody needs to console or defend me here on this ^^ Just like Ikaru said, try to be helpful to those people. That is absolutely the best thing I could ask. That said it has become abundantly clear to me that I need a better way to demonstrate progress and what's going on during testing. It's difficult because there aren't necessarily goals in terms of time or number of fixes... Right now I'm thinking of some kind of "rules are made up and points dont matter" score system. I may give that a try with community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemICE Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 @Zarc No, this topic is not for directing here newcomers who ask information about the game in order to make them not ask again. They just need information, plain and simple. This is for us, older members, to actually give them the info they want instead of shooing them away with our behavior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 "Just like Ikaru said, try to be helpful to those people. That is absolutely the best thing I could ask." Allright I don't needed more ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfox Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I agree with all things said here, yet I will stick to my guns. If anyone here knew when ep 17 would be out, it would be really easy to find on here. Like, even without much browsing. like, Ame is the first who would know the exact date of when it would be released, and I have a feeling that if she would put herself on a timer like that (which I think she should never do. we don't want an Insurgence situation with this game) she would put a timer or the date at let's say the download page. or the banner. or anything like that. That's how we, the community, would learn about the estimated release date and how potential newcomers would learn of it. Now, Ame doesn't work like that. She releases the new EP as it's Combat Ready. due to this, not even She knows when it will be released until the day that it's released (or maybe the day before if she's about to go to bed and put it on her "to do" list for tomorrow). Again. maybe this shows how stupid I am or how bad I am at social stuff. But think carefully. if you were a newcomer and you would skim through the main page of the Game or look at the banner and not see a release date, would you think anyone knows when the next episode is coming out? I know I wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mde2001 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Honestly bless you for this announcement Ame. I've been feeling the need to express something like this for quite a while, and you did so far more eloquently than I would have. Anyway, in reference to the "I do it in a joking manner" thing that's popped up a couple of times in this thread, while this may be case in regards to your intent and members of the community might understand that, to the new member all it does is make them feel like they're doing something wrong. Someone whose never been on the forums before has no real way of knowing that "it gets delayed every time you ask" is a running joke, and even if they do, having 10 people make the same joke about how new and inexperienced you are is never a good feeling. And honestly, laughter by taking cheap shots at new people for not knowing about how our forums work really isn't a great look for the community, and the fact that someone doesn't understand things now or they don't integrate straight away doesn't mean they never will. For example, my first post on the forum was in bug reporting when it should have been in troubleshooting, and was asking for help regarding an issue that had been answered many times. I got a friendly and helpful answer to my question which was a really fantastic first impression and encouraged me to stay. If seven people had jumped on me (even if it was jokingly) for the basic mistakes I made I can promise you I never would have seen this as a place where I could find a group of friends, and Reborn would have stayed as that place with the cool fangame rather than as a community that has had a profound impact on me. And in the end, there isn't that much difference between my first post and a lot the ones people get down on. While bug reporting is a more isolated community, as someone whose done a lot of stuff there I can promise you that people who make posts like the first one I made can be frustrating because once you know how everything works, mistakes seem stupid. But rather than unleashing this frustration onto the person, giving them the help they need and giving some advice on how they can improve in the future is overall a better solution for everyone, and might help some people who currently only are here for episode releases join our community. So by all means, point out the people who make "when is E16 coming out I want it now" threads that we don't have a specified release date yet and that they can check out the development blog for updates. That's being a helpful community member. But to do this, sarcasm and injokes aren't needed, because while they might be amusing to you, they help to contribute to a really negative culture in our community, which to me is one of the main reasons why the number of new active forum users has dropped significantly. Who knows, if we start being nicer to people we might get more people willing to introduce themselves and come out of their shells like so many of us have done before them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRS swag Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Take your time, @Amethyst. December 20th is my birthday just a normal joker here. Edited November 28, 2017 by BRS swag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotahkin01 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 So basically we should be more social to newcomers, I understand that, but for some of us it might be realy frustrating checking everyday for updates resulting in lame jokes. As I see it now, there are 4 issues on this matter which conflict with each other: - Devs do not want to put a date / deadline (which is 100 % understandable, cause deadlines suck); - Community feel like they don't have a lot of insight, which result in jokes and puns and what not (though this is a bit biased on my own reflection); - Newcomers don't have a reference of what "100%" means; - After 100% there's a lot of nothingness, emptiness and insecurities. For example, its great we know that there's a breakdown in programming the next episode (zero to 100%), but there is no transparancy after this. There are also enough questions regarding testing, tbh I don't even know the procedure.. is there a playthrough for ep 16 too 17? or are there also fresh restarts? For some stages it's understandable that there are no updates on testing (like the first 2 stages), but Alpha and Beta could give us more insight. A mod or dev could get the responsibility to make a tread every other week with found bugs, fixes, complecations, playthroughs and everything. Or expand the "100%" meaning. Even some teasing would be great? Like: a pokeball which could be TM psychic or earthquake or the megastone / bracelet). Anyways what i'm trying to say is: it would be swell for all parties to communicate more after the 100 % programming is done. I still love you Ame, for making something amazing possible, setting everyone's mind too it and respect you for pulling it off, .. but this "Every time you ask when E17 is coming out, it gets delayed by another week" as a headline feels a bit weird. Spoiler Might not be the point of this topic or the place to give some criticism, but i still want to mention it, seems like a good time for it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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