Every time you ask when E17 is coming out, it gets delayed by another week

[Ethernum]

Well, at least this shows how much people love this game. Btw, I'm checking every day like a fucking maniac, even if I know it won't be out tomorrow or in the week.

 

I think that people should just ask google their fucking question first instead of asking things that are already told. I mean, for example, people love to ask questions about the solution of a puzzle or the location of an item that has already been the subject of countless youtube videos. It's infuriating but people do hate searching things on their own ^^.

 

 We don't really care about the release date, as long the E17 is not buggy. So take your time and MAYBE we'll have a much better christmas thanks to the release .

[Commander]

Ho boy this topic. I'm not going to beat around the bush in saying that I'm not part of the problem. Something I do a bit out of habit is poke fun of when people make either outrageous suggestions or write something which is a bit more of an aggressive or demanding tone. Most of the time I'm not serious at all (seriously, it's not too hard to tell the difference) but I suppose I could see how this could be taken as very offensive to newer users. I'll probably dial it back to a more friendly version (unless I know the person has been around for a while). Simple questions don't bother me as I've seen dozens of times people ask the same question with the best being the search bar confusion.

 

Now the thing about the whole "Episode XX is now delayed a week" I never ever found that funny. Yeah I did make that Fern Pic but that was out of a discussion and mostly for a quick laugh like most shitposts are which of course are very obviously a joke compared to this saying. The first time I saw that, I actually believed it which made me go "wow, that is kind of cruel for a dev to do". In fact, I feel it is more annoying seeing that joke used 5-6 times every single instance it's asked and then the user is confused and then people have to explain it so they understand. It would be so much easier just to not do it, but I know y'all want to have a little fun so I have a solution that will answer the question, but in a more positive less confusing manner:

 

Spoiler

(I love this piece of fan art)

 

 

[mde2001]

7 minutes ago, dotahkin01 said:

For example, its great we know that there's a breakdown in programming the next episode (zero to 100%), but there is no transparancy after this. There are also enough questions regarding testing, tbh I don't even know the procedure.. is there a playthrough for ep 16 too 17? or are there also fresh restarts? For some stages it's understandable that there are no updates on testing (like the first 2 stages), but Alpha and Beta could give us more insight. A mod or dev could get the responsibility to make a tread every other week with found bugs, fixes, complecations, playthroughs and everything. Or expand the "100%" meaning. Even some teasing would be great? Like: a pokeball which could be TM psychic or earthquake or the megastone / bracelet).

 

Anyways what i'm trying to say is: it would be swell for all parties to communicate more after the 100 % programming is done.

 

This is a fair call, and definitely something I see as a good idea for next episode. It wasn't really something that was considered for this episode as the initial planned timing for the testing was a lot shorter than it ended up being. Obviously we don't want to spoil anything major, but a bit of new stuff wouldn't be too big a deal. I'd be down for showing off a few animations or something if the beta takes much longer. Thanks for the maturity in this feedback though! It was very insightful!

 

6 minutes ago, Ethernum said:

I think that people should just ask google their fucking question first instead of asking things that are already told. I mean, for example, people love to ask questions about the solution of a puzzle or the location of an item that has already been the subject of countless youtube videos. It's infuriating but people do hate searching things on their own ^^.

 

No-one is denying that it would be better if people searched for stuff. The issue here is how people respond when people decide to ask rather than researching. Nothing constructive comes from people venting their frustration at people who do this or just make a joke out of their query. If you're aware of youtube videos on a subject, you can leave the people a link, which is a really helpful thing for them, and makes the community more positive as a whole. People asking questions is a huge part of the point of our game related subforums. If you'd rather not give them the links, you're not obliged to, but the option if your not prepared to be productive we'd prefer you not to post anything at all.

By the way, this response isn't accusing you specifically of targeting people. I haven't come across you being unpleasant at any point, the response was more about the principle of how to respond to frustrating questions. 

[Alistair]

That's a lot of discussing to all agree on a very simple thing: don't be jerks to newcomers.

But I suppose this reminder was necessary, so thank you Ame for bringing this up, and thanks in advance to everyone who is willing to be as nice as the community was to them when they were newcomers.

 

In my experience, people are generally welcoming around here, but I did notice one thing when I was a newbie myself (in other words not so long ago): sometimes older members have this kind of arrogant, know-it-all attitude that can make things unpleasant, especially for the more recently registered users. To be clear I'm not targetting anyone in particular; we've almost all been like that at some point, from vets to aces to mods.

 

If I had a little piece of advice to give people who are talking to new (and old) members, it would be: please be patient, respectful, and humble. Even when you disagree with someone. Especially when you disagree with someone.

I'm not a very patient person myself, but I'll do my best to live and act by my own advice.

With everyone's efforts, this place can be  -- and remain -- welcoming to everyone, whether they're just here for the games, or to make it their second home. Overall I've had a nice time hanging around here, and I wish all the other members to be as lucky as I've been.

[highonpotenuse]

So when? I kid dont ban me.

Edited November 28, 2017 by highonpotenuse

[ZEL]

Quote

 

also, keep in mind that for people like you, who come on this forum every day, navigating is a breeze. you find everything you would ever want to find, because youre used to the layout, the structure and whatnot. people that just came on here may have never dealt with a forum like this before. they have literally not the slightest clue where to look for what, because theres so much info everywhere and its honestly really overwhelming. and please dont try to tell me that its easy to navigate this place, because even I had trouble to do so after the most recent site update, and that was after knowing this forum for a solid two years and a half. anyway, until they figure out how exactly this forum operates, they settle for the easiest way to find out whether e17 has been released yet- asking the veteran members.

Quote machine broke sorry bibs please have a nice day

But this is very much a thing. More so, I actually often give up on even using the search function and wade through the board index pages manually to find what I'm looking for, because often I find myself in the situation where I know something has been discussed before, but using the search won't give me the results that I know are out there. Maybe because the actual thread doesn't use the keyword I'm searching for despite being about that thing, or whatever.

Some keywords are also so broad that you have to wade through a ton of unhelpful results, and not everyone's good at figuring out how to narrow it down.

 

On another site I'm on, I often get people asking me to help them with finding stuff, because they've been looking for [type of thread] and can't seem to find it, or they're trying to find a thread they already saw before, but can't seem to find again - and from them using the wrong words in the search, to our search function sometimes breaking, to them not searching in the right board because the thread isn't where they expected it to be... there's lots of ways for things to get wrong even if a person actually does try to help themselves.

The other week I've tossed a link to a thread that's been in use for seven years to a user who's been active for nine years. It happens.

 

Some topics are certainly easier to search for than others, but personally I find this forum overall not the easiest to navigate for newcomers. Hell, I still find it annoying to use at times, and the unfortunate bugs that staff are still trying to fight with don't help.

 

For a teensy bit of advice, if a question comes up a lot, something I have done elsewhere is to keep a copy-paste response that covers everything related to said question. Explanation, maybe a few useful links...

Never done this for Reborn because I don't use the forums here often enough / don't usually go around trying to answer questions, but having a bunch of pre-written responses to common questions makes life easier for me elsewhere^^

 

That said, I sign guilty as charged of using the "episode gets delayed" joke in recent history, so I guess this is also me saying I'll lay that to rest. Sorry!

[Leokachu]

This is actually the first time I see a forum's admins talking about the issue of pseudo-elitism of online forum, and for that thank you team Reborn.

It's true that some people think they can just mock or or simply comment violently to new comers because they've been around for a while -- and I find it quite amusing that the first comments of this thread actually misunderstood your point and did exactly what you were denouncing.

 

Anywho, thank you for this thread, looks like Reborn team is not only awesome in making Pokemon Reborn, they are also awesome people.

[Candy]

Idk but I'm an antisocial potato, so my first post ever was asking for a purple flower flabebe xD I don't think I ever made an introduction post or thought about looking for E17 info (since back then I had happened upon E16 just as the community release came about). That said, I rather search using my own ten fingers than ask someone a question, so there's that.

However, I do want to keep this community friendly for everyone, and don't mind answering the million dollar question (by that I mean costly) with a simple "It's probably coming soon, but we don't know". It doesn't take more than 15 seconds to type that, and the person who posted the question should also be satisfied

[Zeros]

I really admire you a lot, @Amethyst, for being able to say things so reasonable and moderate despite all the pressure and stress that I can imagine you could being through, because as far as I know, you develop this game, another game, you are on youtube and on this forum too, and I assume you also have a life and things to do out there, you know, away from the PC screen, from time to time, in the so-called "real world"... yes?

You are truly an amazing person (and heck, I wish I had 1% of your time management ability. I'm terribly terrible at that...). Thank you for sharing your time and work with all of us.

 

Also, I would like to appreciate the xkcd panel. Didn't expect that. You have my respect. xD

[Stealth]

4 hours ago, Alistair said:

That's a lot of discussing to all agree on a very simple thing: don't be jerks to newcomers.

But I suppose this reminder was necessary, so thank you Ame for bringing this up, and thanks in advance to everyone who is willing to be as nice as the community was to them when they were newcomers.

 

In my experience, people are generally welcoming around here, but I did notice one thing when I was a newbie myself (in other words not so long ago): sometimes older members have this kind of arrogant, know-it-all attitude that can make things unpleasant, especially for the more recently registered users. To be clear I'm not targetting anyone in particular; we've almost all been like that at some point, from vets to aces to mods.

 

If I had a little piece of advice to give people who are talking to new (and old) members, it would be: please be patient, respectful, and humble. Even when you disagree with someone. Especially when you disagree with someone.

I'm not a very patient person myself, but I'll do my best to live and act by my own advice.

With everyone's efforts, this place can be  -- and remain -- welcoming to everyone, whether they're just here for the games, or to make it their second home. Overall I've had a nice time hanging around here, and I wish all the other members to be as lucky as I've been.

Yo I’m with all of this but can I just expand slightly. Instead of being nice just to newcomers how about we just decide to “be nice.” Period. It really isn’t that difficult to just treat others nicely regardless of how long they have or haven’t been here.  It’s really not that hard I promise.  You guys are dope and I know it can get a little aggressive but I really and truly believe it’s doable. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Stealth

[Alistair]

@Stealth

Ofc. I was just mentioning newcomers in particular because that's what the topic was originally about. But obviously I agree with being nice to everyone, that's why my advice was for when you talk to new and old members alike. Everyone should be treated with respect and open-mindedness by default.

[Ikaru]

Quote

But this is very much a thing. More so, I actually often give up on even using the search function and wade through the board index pages manually to find what I'm looking for, because often I find myself in the situation where I know something has been discussed before, but using the search won't give me the results that I know are out there. Maybe because the actual thread doesn't use the keyword I'm searching for despite being about that thing, or whatever.

Some keywords are also so broad that you have to wade through a ton of unhelpful results, and not everyone's good at figuring out how to narrow it down.

It is ... vaguely associated with this topic what with people potentially being unable to find things that are definitely out there; I believe the reason for this is that archived results aren't displayed. At that point the best we can do is remember which sub-forum it was in and look manually. Which is gross.

As for the rest it looks like everyone else understands it so thank you all.

[NickCrash]

When I became part of this community some years ago, I was treated to that joke, and I didn't really mind, since it was obvious. It will certainly turn away some younger members, but that is not necessary. One's opinion of a forum is not formed by one sarcastic comment (or many similar to each other). The vast majority of the community is nice (with the occasional exceptions), which lets newcomers feel at ease. Everyone is encouraged to ask, and everyone gets their answer. 

 

That said, I have made such jokes before, and I have mixed feelings about it, because I always help the person asking (either on topic, or via pm). I still make the joke tho

Whether one thinks the joke is funny or not, it's irrelevant. The point is for the running gags of the community not to be per se insulting.

I don't think many people would be offended and leave just because of that, but at the same time I can't predict how people take a joke, and reactions vary... a lot.

Naturally, if too many people make the same joke at the expense of a new member, it's definitely discouraging. 

 

I'm just a bit sad, since I have made the joke , and the auth hold such people accountable for negativity in the community.

 

We've been through worse waves of negativity a long time ago. The community still stands strong.

Some examples for those curious enough

 1) some veterans bullying other newer ones calling them "unworthy", 2) a certain mod deleting comments they disagreed with, 3) another locking a topic just because they didn't like it, 4) certain users posting sexually explicit material, 5) one pretended to be me on a PokemonOnline tournament, leading to misunderstandings with the auth which I just recently fixed, 6) people making "what do you hate about yourself"-esque topics, etc

[laggless01]

Is it possible for, when someone registers a new account on the forum, have them automatically and directly receive a message that, for example, says: "Welcome (blah blah)...Introduce yourself at the Grand hall for a warm welcome! Be sure to check out the FAQ for any questions regarding the next episode's release date, forum guidelines etc..." ?
Maybe that might mitigate the amount of people needlessly asking for the release date and guide them better into the community?

(Or maybe that's already the case. I've been here for a while so I wouldn't know.)

[Mynxin]

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, but it's certainly related to the topic at hand. Can a "When the next Episode coming out?" question be added to the FAQ. I remember that was the second place I went, the download page being the first, and it wasn't there. I just checked again now to make sure it hasn't yet been added, too. Honestly, it would save a lot of "When if Episode 17 coming out??" questions to put on the FAQ that nobody knows.

[ZEL]

33 minutes ago, Mynxin said:

I'm not sure if this is the place to ask, but it's certainly related to the topic at hand. Can a "When the next Episode coming out?" question be added to the FAQ. I remember that was the second place I went, the download page being the first, and it wasn't there. I just checked again now to make sure it hasn't yet been added, too. Honestly, it would save a lot of "When if Episode 17 coming out??" questions to put on the FAQ that nobody knows.

It's covered under the FAQ for the game, which can be found in the "Pokemon Reborn" part of the menu right below the download link^^

http://www.rebornevo.com/index.php?/pr/gamefaq/

The first question answered is "When can I expect the next release?", which refers to episode releases of all kinds.

[Katabatic]

The first rule of business: you're never going to eliminate people who want to ask questions. That's just a fact for any field where people actually care about what you're working on. And I absolutely agree that new members should be greeted a welcome and an earnest attempt to answer their questions instead of snark and 'pick on the newbie' inside jokes.

 

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the handwringing is brought on because of a lack of transparency. People don't need to know the exactly date/hour/minute the episode is going to drop. But people who have been waiting patiently for however many days/weeks/months would like to know, or at least approximate, how far along they are in the whole process. The developers do a good job of it with the progress bar while the episode is still in development, but then has largely dropped off since.

 

Without giving away too much or trying to toot my own horn here, I work with a team of fairly high credentialed individuals, and we are given a lot of latitude as a result. So while we may not be tasked with grunt work that has a set deadline, we are expected to manage projects and give rough estimates on when content can be delivered. Saying "we're aiming for a release in three weeks" at the very least signifies intent. It doesn't set a date in stone; some breakthrough can still happen that allows us to release early, or something unforeseen can push the date back.

 

For example, take the dev blog, the last proper update came 9/24, and in it, the best estimate for a release came here:

 

Quote

anyway, this all means that if there are no especially time-consuming problems, the episode will publicly release four weeks after the internal testing begins. 

 

Which is great news, and everyone appreciates this. However, what gets people anxious is that now, 9+ weeks after the announcement, we still have yet to have a community release and people are still suggesting "it'll come out when it comes out." Which, I'm sure everyone understands, is not a timeline. It's not even an approximation. It's little more than a "stop asking us, guys." Even a "we're currently in beta" would be very welcome.

 

An update saying "there's been X issues discovered during Internal Testing, we're likely to push back the release Y weeks" is fine. People aren't afraid of 'bad' news. They're afraid of no news. Especially in an online environment where there's so much abandonware and people dropping off the face of the earth with no warning.

 

Now granted, I'm aware that people are volunteering their time for this project, so no one should expect AAA levels of QA and project management (and even they get it wrong a lot more than they like to admit), but people shouldn't be afraid of communicating with the community. If a setback happens, letting people know then is a lot better than letting the expected date pass by without a word. That's when you get more and more confused people come out of the woodwork with, "hey guys, when is the ep coming out?"

Edited November 29, 2017 by Katabatic

[Commander]

Now that I got some free time, I'm actually going to respond to some of this discussion especially because there's a couple things that should be addressed.

 

14 hours ago, Ikaru said:

Again, the point is not the repeated questions that we may or may not have the answers to, the point is the manner of response.  Instead of "It'll be out when it's out" or "everyone time someone asks ame delays it hehe xdddd," direct them to the devblog page on the site. Answer legitimately. "We don't know any better than you do, but you can keep up with it with the rest of us here." "This post details the new testing process; it's currently in the beta phase and should be done with that soon, and after that it will be available to the community as a whole."

I think a point to bring up is that while we can never answer the question truly, some of us have been around long enough to get a general idea when someone should check back to see progress. "I don't know" is always a terrible answer. The previous few episodes due to the huge level of quality improvement have taken roughly 8 months to a year. That is a very, very good answer to give someone as it gives them a time estimate instead of forcing them to check daily to see progress. Ame also said she plans to make more updates about the progress of the episode so you could also link them to that so they can personally keep track if they wanted. (I really only do it to see what Ame says tbh). Sometimes there's hiccups causing delays which you could also tell the person asking (and if they don't like your answer or hate waiting that's on them as Reborn has thousands of other more patient people supporting it). Remember, it's not just the person asking you're answering to as lurkers exist for a reason. Here's just a few ways you could answer it:

 

"I'm a bit new here so I don't know how long it takes, but apparently from other users it seems like it takes quite a while. Ame keeps a dev blog you can follow to see the progress here [hyperlink]. This can also be found by clicking on the Pokemon Reborn tab at the top and selecting the dev blog."

-Someone could also make a useful site tools and features thread people could link now that I'm thinking about it.

 

"I can't say for sure but since progress has been going I'd assume it would only be finished around August-October at the earliest, but that's just a wild guess at this point. You can keep track of it yourself in the Dev Blog."

 

"I know it sucks but it takes a very long time to make a very good game so just gotta man up and wait it out. Generally I play other games to pass the time and it makes waiting so much easier. If you really like Reborn, there are some sister fan-games called Pokemon Rejuvenation and Pokemon Desolation found in the Developing Games area. If you want to stick with Reborn, there are some mods you can try that are found in the mod market here [insert link to page]. I heard Hardcore is a great mod and you should try it."

 

"I have no idea how you discovered my codename, but I must not leave this room until I put on these shades.

 

...But I have heard rumors of a mysterious, yet cynical creation called Pokemon Reborn that I've been keeping tabs on. Seems that there's been public leaks of info found here [link to the dev blog]

Agent E18 aka The Plumber"

 

15 hours ago, Zarc said:

Ah finally , i was hoping for a modo to make a general big topic of this to prevent ( or at least trying to prevent ) newcomers to keep asking the same question and **** us in the same time. 

 

 

Thanks Ame  

I'm not actually here to poke fun of you're glorious response which you're probably embarrassed enough about, but you unintentionally brought up a very good point by doing this. Something a lot of people don't do is read things fully or often just skim them so information can be so easily missed. It's actually why I tend to repeat or recap a few things at the end of something so that people don't miss a major point I was trying to make. Hell, I don't even fully reread the posts I make. Point is that users can often miss stuff which ends up having them ask an obvious with an obvious answer that's easy to find. As someone who used to write novels for a hobby, it's kind of ironic when I say "People don't read" but it's kind of true. Can't always blame people as you don't want to spend an hour reading or finding something for an answer when asking is much easier. Would you rather spend 10 minutes having someone answer a question or spend an hour trying to find it yourself? I think the answer is pretty clear for what the common man shall do.

 

14 hours ago, Amethyst said:

That said it has become abundantly clear to me that I need a better way to demonstrate progress and what's going on during testing. It's difficult because there aren't necessarily goals in terms of time or number of fixes... Right now I'm thinking of some kind of "rules are made up and points dont matter" score system. I may give that a try with community.

Well to be honest, I actually felt this episode overall felt more like a drag than E16 in the run simply due to the dev blog being moved to a new section which is finicky and hard to find (let along I get logged out in that area for some reason and can't respond) but the bigger thing was the lack of a whole E17 discussion thread. It was kind of, for lack of a better term, a garbage dump of information and discussion in which all kinds of people entered the discussion and not just Ame or a single auth. I think the page dedicated to updates and progress was a fine idea but now the only real effective way to talk about the episode is on Discord. Sure people can make threads but that's only for a specific topic instead of a talk about anything area.

 

Other than an easy to find post with hotkey links, I really don't think you need to do much other than to just occasionally be vocal to let people know you're still working on the game and it is alive. There doesn't need to be anything specific, but maybe give an update if any hurdles come about. A lot of us were really left in the dark about the long Alpha Stage delay and had no idea what was going on. I kind of would have liked to know about the sheer number of critical bugs that arose (even some specific example...that aren't spoilery) as it's a very understandable delay. Also, I'm still against the percentage bar, but I know that isn't going away.

 

14 hours ago, mde2001 said:

So by all means, point out the people who make "when is E16 coming out I want it now" threads that we don't have a specified release date yet and that they can check out the development blog for updates. That's being a helpful community member. But to do this, sarcasm and injokes aren't needed, because while they might be amusing to you, they help to contribute to a really negative culture in our community, which to me is one of the main reasons why the number of new active forum users has dropped significantly. Who knows, if we start being nicer to people we might get more people willing to introduce themselves and come out of their shells like so many of us have done before them. 

Correlation does not equal causation. I would say that rude vets are a source of the decrease in newer members but I don't feel that is the root of the problem. The biggest reason for the decrease is that the site is centered around the game when the game rarely ever gets updated. That is an issue that cannot and should not be addressed to help the community grow because when the game updates, the updates are now really, really, really good and leaps of improvements. The decrease in forum activity also is a cause for lesser members, but again, no single person can control that and the only thing older members can do is try to make a post each day (you don't need to make essays like I do). After Reborn is completed the new member count likely will come to a crawl which again can't be helped. Being mean or aggressive isn't helping the issue though, but being nice and friendly will. Reborn was regarded for it's really nice and friendly niche community over the fan-game at one point. Heck, the fan-game was kind of a side thing even. On a different note, things will pick up again with the community release so it's probably good this was addressed before that release instead of during.

 

13 hours ago, dotahkin01 said:

- Devs do not want to put a date / deadline (which is 100 % understandable, cause deadlines suck);

- Community feel like they don't have a lot of insight, which result in jokes and puns and what not (though this is a bit biased on my own reflection);

- Newcomers don't have a reference of what "100%" means;

- After 100% there's a lot of nothingness, emptiness and insecurities.

The first point is self explanatory and not giving one avoids a false promise (especially because it is so easy to underestimate the time it takes to finish something)

The second point I'd change insight with stuff to do...

The third point I disagree with but definitely understand where you're coming from. There really needs to be a better reference to explain testing phases but it kind of really changed drastically (basically the community phase is now the beta phase in terms of duration...but likely alpha and beta testing will take two weeks next time...no promises though)

The fourth point is spot on this release as this eclipses the other episodes in terms of duration for testing phases. Something Beta Testers ie Ace Members aren't supposed to do is talk about the new episode at all and especially avoid teasing. You could lose your ace membership for leaking info. We've got a lot of people sitting around wondering what the heck is going on while we have people who know the answer, but technically aren't supposed to say anything who could easily answer it. A few of us have answered what's going on a few times just to calm people down and give an explanation. This episode has a ton of errors due to the revamping of the AI and the new seed system some which are critical and need addressed. One of which is trying to fix when the opponent randomly does nothing. I've heard stories that the Alpha was much, much worse.

 

A few of us have answered this on discord a couple of times but not on the forums. Kind of hard to make a topic about E17 content when you're a beta tester and you aren't supposed to do that. I'm sure these phases are all going to last 3 weeks for E18 so I suppose it should kind of be addressed better when we get there. I really, really think Ame should have made an additional dev blog update as she did kind of say each phase would only last a week. Too late for that now because the Beta more or less should be wrapping up soon. Don't burn me at the stake if it still take 2 or 3 more weeks

 

15 hours ago, Zarc said:

@Ikaru i admit i was a little rude on my points here and i'm sorry for this. I understand that we need to be more patient with newcomers ok , but i don't understand when you said that we just need to redirect them on this thread instead . They will see the thread and then what ? Episode will be delayed no matter what , and at the end they will say " oh sorry my bad didn't saw it " whereas it's written in black and white just right here. I personnally think this topic can prevent sort of thing to happen on the future cause this is the first thread they are supposed to see when they come here.

I've been here for 4 years and even if you make the answer so obvious in big letter so that people can see it instantly, people will still ask about the episode progress. You can't actually eliminate it and the question is asked literally everyone including fan translations for games. Trying to do that is like trying to prevent your hair from turning gray or falling off if you get older. Besides, it's not you're game so why are you so bothered by it? Not like you have any control over it unless you take Ame hostage and demand to be released from the Reborn Asylum. Just ignore them if it bothers you so much. I do it all the time (I really only visit the Reborn game section like every other week). Stop playing extremist and get over it. It's not a very comforting feeling knowing that users want newbies to shut up for asking questions they heard many times in a newbies perspective.

 

14 hours ago, Wolfox said:

I agree with all things said here, yet I will stick to my guns. If anyone here knew when ep 17 would be out, it would be really easy to find on here. Like, even without much browsing. like, Ame is the first who would know the exact date of when it would be released, and I have a feeling that if she would put herself on a timer like that (which I think she should never do. we don't want an Insurgence situation with this game) she would put a timer or the date at let's say the download page. or the banner. or anything like that. That's how we, the community, would learn about the estimated release date and how potential newcomers would learn of it. Now, Ame doesn't work like that. She releases the new EP as it's Combat Ready. due to this, not even She knows when it will be released until the day that it's released (or maybe the day before if she's about to go to bed and put it on her "to do" list for tomorrow).

 

Again. maybe this shows how stupid I am or how bad I am at social stuff. But think carefully. if you were a newcomer and you would skim through the main page of the Game or look at the banner and not see a release date, would you think anyone knows when the next episode is coming out? I know I wouldn't.

Maybe it's just that you haven't ventured outside of the Reborn haven, but this is not an unusual question to ask. Amethyst actually updates way, way more frequently than some of the games I'm following. Speaking of which...I should look to see what's going on with that Mother 4 game. Yep, it's still alive. Anyways, sometimes people ask to find out about it's progress and if it gets canceled. Very few projects ever make it to the end and rarely even reach the level of Reborn. It's something to really hold your head high on. Other times people are naive or new to computers. Think of it like your grandma learning how to use Windows 10. You just don't know what's going on through that person's head when they're asking. Besides Ame's point is about the one person who doesn't understand the obvious. Sure maybe it's only 1 of every 10 who ask, but maybe it's worth taking the chance on all 10 to find the one.

 

 

13 hours ago, mde2001 said:

This is a fair call, and definitely something I see as a good idea for next episode. It wasn't really something that was considered for this episode as the initial planned timing for the testing was a lot shorter than it ended up being. Obviously we don't want to spoil anything major, but a bit of new stuff wouldn't be too big a deal. I'd be down for showing off a few animations or something if the beta takes much longer. Thanks for the maturity in this feedback though! It was very insightful!

So basically...you'd be doing what you've done for E16 then. Joking aside, I'm sure sure there's ways to help pass the time better over the long waiting period. I've got a couple things on my to do list to help pass the time but at least it's something to keep fans looking forward to. 

 

12 hours ago, Alistair said:

In my experience, people are generally welcoming around here, but I did notice one thing when I was a newbie myself (in other words not so long ago): sometimes older members have this kind of arrogant, know-it-all attitude that can make things unpleasant, especially for the more recently registered users. To be clear I'm not targetting anyone in particular; we've almost all been like that at some point, from vets to aces to mods.

 

If I had a little piece of advice to give people who are talking to new (and old) members, it would be: please be patient, respectful, and humble. Even when you disagree with someone. Especially when you disagree with someone.

I'm not a very patient person myself, but I'll do my best to live and act by my own advice.

We've actually only ever had one thread regarding the veteran's changing attitude on things but honestly I think it was always there at least for the past two years I've been around. It's just most stuff happened in the nightclub to release or vent but...the nightclub kind of is now dead due to a bad decision on handling ace membership. Also being around a community for 4 or more years is a very, very, very long time and it does take its toll. We definitely could go into a deep discussion but I'll just cut straight to the point:

 

Old Reborn felt more accepting but most content was short lacking posts and generally a lot of facades outside of the nightclub. Chat was usually a bit more honest, but the big thing was more active members and it was very lively. Newer Reborn is very, very slow compared to the peaks of the league, but interesting enough I feel discussions are a lot deeper and people usually are just more honest. Activity is down but quality is up. Hell, I'd argue the maturity level is actually up. Funny how looking at the big picture things aren't as much different as I thought they were. I guess maybe that kind of shows that maybe somebody else isn't the problem but you are the problem (and by that I mean ourselves).

 

As for patience, I think the best way to accomplish it is to simply not think about it and do other things. Maybe not check the dev blog as much and only check it once a month if it bothers you so much...or just not at all. That was ye old fashion way in ye olden days. I was so good at this that E14 came out of nowhere for me.

 

6 hours ago, NickCrash said:

I'm just a bit sad, since I have made the joke , and the auth hold such people accountable for negativity in the community.

I don't actually agree with this statement. If the auth were really against it, they would have stopped it a long, long time ago instead of letting it run for at least 4 years (probably 5 for all I know). It's more about a respect rule and also this joke went from rather harmless to basically only bringing harm and no humor to the table. There are now chains of discussion about it and people feel the need to explain it now in worries that someone might get offended. Nobody's ever got warning points for it and I doubt anyone will for making it, but this is more to address the issue so that we all can tone it back. Think of this as a self-reflection instead of pointing the finger at anyone. 

 

 

I...can tell I'm tired. Probably repeated some stuff said but repetition ain't a bad thing. One thing I really didn't post anywhere is that who gives a damn that so-and-so is being an ass. One person being a butthead ain't gonna turn away a user from a site for good. This ain't about converting demons into saints or going on a witch hunt. If you're thinking about all the users who have been aggressive lately, just don't think about them. Only they can stop themselves from acting that way. Trying to force them to change is just going to make the matter worse. We've all done a wrong in the past and probably said or done something we shouldn't. If you're willing to accept that and the fact that you can be wrong, it's a good start. Simply making people feel welcome is the best you can do from there. I'm not one to really talk about myself or put myself in the spotlight, but I can't ignore the fact that I'm a very well known user around here especially after creating Hardcore. The things I say and do have an affect on the community whether or not I like it. If I'm an ass, there's a chance people would follow my pattern. Funny that I'm looking at a comment I made yesterday seeing how I went from an okay response to a pretty rude one. If I actually had been nicer, the additional responses could have been completely different. If the second or third responders either called me out or tried to shift the tone, the whole topic could have shifted as well. Am I the cause of the topic turning negative? Most likely. Am I one to blame for the whole thing? No, because someone else could have easily stopped it. A commander has no power without his subordinates....no pun intended. 

 

And just another piece of advice, I rarely really mean much from what I say (usually I don't even remember half the things I said) but don't go the other way and focus on calling me out either and drive the topic to that. If you have to respond to it, just be subtle like "I don't agree with [insert username here]'s tone, he did bring up an interesting point about [insert topic of interest here], but I only slighty agree due to...[you get the idea]". The thing you don't want to do is say "Just ignore [User] as he's a stuck up elitist." All that's gonna do is piss the user off. Can't say you won't avoid pissing off everyone using that example, but as I said many times to be afraid to call me out should I do it at least. Also, I don't go after people so don't worry about that either. The thing about elitists ie older members is that they are on equal footing with every member, but we gained a few benefits from being a member of this community for a long time. Ace members hold no more power than any other member so don't view it as such.

[mde2001]

18 minutes ago, Commander said:

I don't actually agree with this statement. If the auth were really against it, they would have stopped it a long, long time ago instead of letting it run for at least 4 years (probably 5 for all I know). It's more about a respect rule and also this joke went from rather harmless to basically only bringing harm and no humor to the table. There are now chains of discussion about it and people feel the need to explain it now in worries that someone might get offended. Nobody's ever got warning points for it and I doubt anyone will for making it, but this is more to address the issue so that we all can tone it back. Think of this as a self-reflection instead of pointing the finger at anyone. 

 

One person being a butthead ain't gonna turn away a user from a site for good. This ain't about converting demons into saints or going on a witch hunt. If you're thinking about all the users who have been aggressive lately, just don't think about them. Only they can stop themselves from acting that way. Trying to force them to change is just going to make the matter worse.

I've quoted the stuff I'm going to respond to here. 

I've only been an auth member for just under two years, so obviously can't say what happened before that, but even in my time I certainly don't think we were always opposed to it. At least to me, the shift in opinion on it is mostly to do with the way it was delivered. It used to be more if someone asked a question on when E16 was coming out, someone would give them an answer, and then maybe put the joke in at the end with a  or something like that, then everyone would move on. Now people's sole response is jumping in with the "thanks for delaying it by a month" thing, which others immediately join in on, meaning that we can get five or six responses of people saying effectively the same thing with no-one actually giving the relevant information. So you're absolutely right in saying that we (or at least I) are not labeling anyone who has ever made the joke as being responsible for creating a negative community, as when it was done in the right way it was entirely harmless. However, the way it is expressed currently has become somewhat toxic and therefore unacceptable, and while I probably won't hand out warning points for it, if the negative trend continues we'll have to discuss options at a meeting and come up with a more substantial response, which is something I'd prefer to avoid.

 

In terms of the second thing, I'm not sure if this point is directed towards the community as a whole or the auth team. If its the former, I mostly agree although I'd probably change "ignore it" to bring any major examples of toxic activity to the auth team (pretty similar in principle though). However if this is intended for us (if it isn't just ignore everything from here on), I've got to disagree on this one. A large part of our job is ensuring that the community is safe and enjoyable for everyone, and by ignoring aggression we're not really doing our jobs properly. While we can't convert people entirely, we can and should set standards of behavior when on our forums, and if they refuse to act appropriately then we can at least stop them from taking things out on others via disciplinary measures.

 

 

[Sin Deathscream]

Ame, I love you, really.

 

I am not a very active member of this community but I participate in many communities like this, from many pokémon fan games, and I must say that you are the most amazing admin of them all. I swear I cried reading this topic because it made me think of a particularly good game I play, that has a particularly bad community with the worst admins possible... If they paid half as much respect and attention to the players as you do, that game would be so much better and enjoyable.

 

So even though it's been a while since I actively post anything here (I usually just read the news), I had to stop by and say how much it means to me, and I'm sure to everyone else who loves Reborn, all the work you've been doing here, not only in creating such a great game, but in keeping us all updated the best you can and in managing this community with so much care.

 

So thanks a lot!

[SilverAngelus]

[Arkhi]

If you feel the need to reply with a Best of Epic Pranks Vine Compilation 2017 answer to a question, just don't.

[SilverAngelus]

1 hour ago, Arkhi said:

If you feel the need to reply with a Best of Epic Pranks Vine Compilation 2017 answer to a question, just don't.

Sorry

[5hift]

TL;DR:

Don't be a toxic, arrogant, whiteknight.

 

Just say what needs to be said and move on. That's what a good community does.

[Arkhi]

2 hours ago, SilverHelio said:

Sorry

I don't mean you, my post is a general address to the same audience as the OP.