E17 Spoilers-Heaven and Hell on Reborn?

[Jess]

Spoiler

Titania's dimension is just similar to Luna's pocket dimension, which is practically the rabbit-hole from "Alice in Wonderland". You forget that Reborn is a Region which conserves massive amounts of energy due to the meteor that lies underneath it. It is possible that this energy isn't only affecting its close surrounding area, since it hadn't been sealed for quite a long time after its landing, but a portion of its magical energy seeped through the land and created different magical areas. If we think about the map of Reborn region, "Titania's dimension" is at North-West, while Luna's in on South-East, which complements the absolute contradictory magical elements of each other (boosting Dark vs boosting Fairy type moves, deep underground vs high in the sky).

 

In every "religion" there is a Heaven-like and a Hell-like place. Many people support the opinion that both Hell and Heaven are located ON the very Earth, created by people and their behaviour/actions towards others. This might be the case for Luna's and Titania's dimensions. Which is a nice interpretation of the Yin-Yang theory as well (dark contains light and vice versa). In Titania's dimension, where everything is SEEMINGLY angelic and fairytale-like, we encounter the dragon's den, a pit of evil, while Titania is sinking in her own hell. This makes obvious that darkness is contained in a world of absolute light. On the other hand, Luna, embraced by darkness, finds her way into comforting Serra's and Radomus' pained souls by offering them what they need. Replacement of their beloved ones, filling the void in their hearts. This makes her an angel in darkness, and shows how light can be found in the darkest Hell. This is amplified by the fact that, in Titania's field it is snowing and Steel type moves are boosted too (both reflect the cold Hell in the whole Fairy warmth of her dimension), while, on the other hand and Luna's field, light-based attacks are also boosted thanks to the crystals located in the caves, showing that we can always follow hope, as long as we make it shine the brightest into the darkest pit of "Hell".

 

Now that I think of it, Titania's hair colour is red, a standard "Hell-ish" colour, while Luna resembles the Heaven-like pattern even more, by bearing and angelic blonde hair colour... And much more timid/calm/polite personality... Also, we arrive to Titania's Gym by passing through a Desert, and we arrive to Luna's Gym by passing through a fully bloomed valley which has a blue river in it. It is like each world was designed to be 100% the opposite of the other. 

 

This is my interpretation of this.  

Since many people have asked "why Titania's world appeared and from where/ or even whether its very existence was necessary or Farfetch'd... I decided to put my thoughts here  

[PokeFailure]

I just assumed Ame was horrible at telling people "No" when it came to their Gym's construction Budget. 

 

Which is why Hardy will no doubt be living in a 4x4 stonehenge building because everyone else used up the budget. Also Adrienn is totally stealing city funds to pay for xer's garden.

 

But in all seriousness, this was a nice read.

[Jess]

@GS BALL Well, I come from a Christian Orthodox background, so red is the colour that is associated to passion, devil and succumbing to desire (no offense to redhead people, whom I absolutely love!). This isn't my opinion, it is the religious aspect of red colour in the background I come from  

 

PS: Quote is broken (again)  

 

Edit: Something I forgot to add was that even Titania's and Luna's life beliefs are the exact opposite. Luna tries to soothe the pain of Radomus and Serra by creating a false reality for them, which will be retained for a while, giving them enough hope to keep surviving, while Titania (in her speech against Taka) supports the opinion that only the cold, crude truth will release you from your suffering.

[Gheist]

Spoiler

 

I always assumed Iolia valley was just a place that was there and Luna decided to use it for her gym but this is the first time I'm hearing the idea that she actually created it.

I mean it's just a cave with crystals at the end of the day whereas Titania's gym is an insane magic tower that clearly isn't naturally occurring. Obviously some of the symbolism is definitely there but I don't necessarily see a contrast between these 2 characters/places. It could just be 2 completely unrelated themes and you're finding links where there are none.

Or I could be wrong, especially if Luna did "Create" the valley itself which would be very interesting if true. At the very least these would be the only 2 gyms that were made using this method.

 

 

[Jess]

@Gheist It's not necessary that Titania created her own Gym. It's possible that she found this ancient Castle and turned it into her Gym. Also, "just a cave with crystals" is a wrong way to describe what Iolia Valey/Luna's Gym are. Luna gave us a crystal key, that interacts with crystals and creates blue crystal bridges, turns bushes to green crystals, turns rock into red crystal doors or even transforms magically the interior of the mountain to fit Luna's Gym leader purposes. All these things sound a bit too well-planned to be "randomly" created by nature. Apart from the obvious magical aspect to them, the crystal key and its design (can see that in key items) show clearly that Luna has created it. So, even if Iolia Valley existed, the whole system was Luna's creation who "tamed" the magical energy and used it according to her desires. 

It is possible that Titania did the same, and "tamed" a pre-existant magic power that was surging through that place to create a magical fairytale castle according to her wishes.

 

Of course all those things are hypotheses. I would love to hear what @Amethyst has to say about my perspective (fantasy ran quite wild here).  

[Gheist]

@Jess

Spoiler

Oh come on, the entire looping flower field with a sky bridge leading to a magic looping tower just happened to be in the middle of a scrapyard?

Iolia valley on the other hand has a bunch of stuff that doesn't seem related to Luna's gym like the path to Sableye and the rock climbable walls. We also have those same magic crystals in Teknite cave so they probably are naturally occurring. I think it's far more likely that those are just there and maybe Luna did create the key which focuses their energy or whatever. Sure it's possible that she created the whole valley but I see nothing to even suggest that other than the convenient placement of it's entrance (right next to the mansion) but again it's possible it just happened to be there so she picked it for her gym or the entrance is a portal that teleports you to the valley.

 

As for the valley being too "well-planned", I think that's just a game element just like the ice puzzles and the Crustle thing on route 2. I doubt you believe humans canonically planted those so that you could solve a puzzle, I mean come on. It's a side effect of Ame wanting to make the game more interesting rather than us just walking through the tree and ending up right at the battle. The Bouffalant fighting in the perfect position so as to ram the tree you need moved after you kill a Tauros is also stupidly convenient but that doesn't mean someone in game actually planned it like that. Not to mention the whole scrapyard train puzzle. All the trains are perfectly placed to destroy the rocks you need and push things out of the way.

And it's completely possible Luna programmed the crystals to do those specific things so that you could reach her gym but that doesn't mean she created the entire space with magic.

Or maybe the crystals are just convenient puzzle elements like we'd assume they are in Teknite cave. I imagine we'll probably be seeing more of them elsewhere too.

 

[Jess]

@GheistI don't plan on arguing about a random thought I had about a game that we both enjoy... So,the whole "oh, come on" irony thing is unnecessary, as I explained my opinion, which will remain my opinion. Now, if you are so fixated on proving me wrong, I don't mind, or care. I didn't say that the castle randomly appeared on end of a scrapyard.But it's funny that you think that finding something out of place is impossible when you can find oasis in the middle of deserts irl. 

[Gheist]

@Jess An oasis is naturally occurring. A stone castle is not. And those magic crystal caves seem to be naturally occurring in Reborn. Ok now I'm done.

[Jess]

@Gheist "Naturally" in Reborn, not really. Due to the meteor that lies underneath it, yes. I never said the castle occured "naturally" *facepalm*. I said it's possible that somebody ages ago constructed it, as it seems to be located in a magical realm, and MAYBE Titania decided to modify it and use it as her Gym. Read first, argue afterwards.  

Anyways, to conclude, my point was that the meteor's energy is responsible for both fields of Luna's and Titania's Gym and they just constructed their Gyms there, as that fitted their opposing personalities. Now, I don't know the extent of modifications each of them did to the natural environment of each area to develop their Gym, if it was minor (e.g. Luna just designing a crystal key or creating the whole path to her Gym as a trial for challengers, Titania finding an ancient abandoned castle and renovating it) or major (e.g Titania building an entire castle).

[Amethyst]

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I just assumed Ame was horrible at telling people "No" when it came to their Gym's construction Budget. 

to be perfectly honest this is incredibly likely.

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How did you know about red hair symbolizing "hellish people"? This is esoteric knowledge, straight from "Malleus Malleficarum", the manual of the Inquisitors of old (now defunct)! 

 

i didnt even know this. glad to know i'm living up to my legacy as a witch by accident...

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Of course all those things are hypotheses. I would love to hear what @Amethyst has to say about my perspective (fantasy ran quite wild here). 

well, who knows... would magic be necessary at all for a place like that? i'm not so sure... if you pay close attention you might see what i mean.

[Gheist]

@Jess  You said

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But it's funny that you think that finding something out of place is impossible when you can find oasis in the middle of deserts irl.

in response to me saying the magic castle with a looping garden and tower wasn't just sitting in the middle of a scrapyard for Titania to find. I'm pretty sure they even say it in the game that her new gym was a recent addition and that she was doing battles in the scrapyard itself before that.

The reason why an oasis in a desert isn't strange is because those are naturally occurring. Castles meanwhile are not. Of course you didn't say they were but this is the reason why your comparison fails. One is absurd while the other is not because one is naturally occurring while the other is not. The meteor could also be seen as a natural phenomena assuming we consider "natural" everything that wasn't built by humans. That's the way I'm using the word.

 

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 Read first, argue afterwards.

 

Comprehend first, argue afterwards.

 

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the meteor's energy is responsible for both fields of Luna's and Titania's Gym and they just constructed their Gyms there

 

Constructed the gym or conjured up Iolia valley as a pocket dimension under a tree in Radomus' yard? If it's the first one I probably agree with you except the crystals were probably there beforehand. I really think there is less disagreement here on the actual topic than it seems. It's mostly your poor attempts at rebuttals and snide remarks that I disagree with at this point. Other than the idea that Luna could have found Iolia valley in a state pretty similar to the current one and maybe made some adjustments but the crystals could have been there, even the water bridge ones just like in Teknite cave. Unless you think she made those as well. Perhaps Luna was the one setting up all the puzzles in the entire region so that we wouldn't get bored during our adventure. Now that would make for an exciting plot twist.

 

 

@Amethyst So was Iolia valley just there and Luna found it or did she conjure the whole area up as a pocket dimension under the tree? Or at least placed all the crystals there (meaning there were no crystals before her). Can you clear it up please?

 

[Amethyst]

The crystals are iolia valley's native thing. She chose it because of how they warped light. It's not a pocket dimension or anything like that

[Gheist]

@Amethyst Thanks, figured as much.

 

@Jess ^.