About Team Meteor.....

[The Swordsman]

So after playing episode 17 and finishing Pokemon UM it got me thinking, unlike Team Plasma who separated themselves into morally black and white groups or the Aether Foundation who were anti-heroes when their president wasn't influenced by neurotoxins, Team Meteor has successfully stayed as villains without any splits despite the many morally grey members (Taka, ZEL, Aster etc.)  and their original noble goal (protect Arceus's meteor) most likely due to the very powerful iron fist of Lin.  So I am wondering does the Reborn community think that Team Meteor can be redeemed or has the team fallen too far?

 

The points in the game that I think suggest that they can are,

- According to Eclipse, Team Meteor only sought to make people leave Reborn when Solaris was their leader, and only turned to truly evil measures after Lin took charge.

- Solaris originally stayed true to his family's goal after his parents died and Team Meteor's new goal goes against what his parents died to protect.

- Taka seems to think his father isn't too far gone,

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and may be able to influence him if the Zeckrom path is chosen.

- El is apparently a E4 member and has relationship points, suggesting that the player's interactions with him impact him in some way

- Many of their members are desperate people who only want to see something or someone restored to them and constantly question their actions.

-  Randomus's dialogue about not everything being black and white.

- This is a semi common staple in the canon Pokemon games (with Teams Aqua, Magma, Plasma, Skull and the Aether Foundation) but unlike in those games Reborn's characters are more fleshed out, so if they can be redeemed thanks to player it will be more poignant and satisfying.

[BIGJRA]

We still don't really know what Lin's deal is, though judging by the Laura Tanzan Depths path in one timeline/alternate universe/whatever we know that Lin is simply a horrible person, through and through. Whether that's Sigmund's fault or not, I guess we'll have to see still, but I don't really think given what we know/have seen that she can be redeemed.

 

Sirius? Yeah fuck you Sirius. He seems to enjoy his contract -- he says Fiore Mansion would be the second house he's had to burn down like it was some kind of twisted joke. I don't see redemption for him either.

 

Sigmund? Not exactly Meteor, but worth talking about. It seems like he says some twisted sense of righteousness coupled with the death of his... sister? that might almost make us think his heart is in the right place in spite of what he did so wrong to the orphans. IIRC he has ship points unlike the above two aswell so maybe things might be redeemable for Sigmund.

 

Solaris? Sure. I think he's probably the most gray area of them all, being manipulated or worse by Lin, but it seems like he's really just doing what his family has had to for generations without really questioning it too much. I suspect there'll be some kind of Solaris-tries-to-stop-Lin-but-its-too-late-and-he-dies moment but who knows.

 

Taka? I'm on the Zekrom path and heard about the other path, so I can't really comment on that one for apparent reasons. What I do think, and thought by choosing to battle him in WTC, is that he can operate as either the conscientious objector or the saboteur within Meteor, whichever doesn't get him nixed in this path. Obviously everything between the Titania-Taka-Us triangle already asked the question regarding him, but he's certainly redeemable nonetheless.

ZEL? Well, it seems like Zero is a savage and agrees wholly with Meteor, so I guess we'll have to see with him. Lumi is calculating but probably in a similar boat to Flobot morality wise, and Eve is clearly supposed to be good. Are they even still alive? I know we saw Zero come out of "devon" but not those two. 

 

Elias? As you may or may not know, I kinda despise religious fanatics that would use that as their justification for their actions, especially those taking away civil rights, and it seems like Elias is just that at times. Yet, it seems like all he's PERSONALLY done is wanted his daughter back and tried to get his apprentice an elite four position (though likely unethically), so idk. He might have a perfectly sound redemption arc or be controlled by the powers he seeks to possess. Then again he tried to... sacrifice...? Luna, so maybe not. He seems like he is grateful to the lord for his sight and so perhaps obligation drives him, which I could see turning against him and making him see reason again.

 

As for the grunts, again, I don't know. Some probably drank Solaris' Kool-Aid and some seek power Lin can bring to the table, others simply want a place in the new world. I don't think the grunts for the most part are evil on their own.

[Shia]

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To be perfectly honest, the concept of Meteor undergoing Redemption in the same style as Team Plasma is kind of off-putting. Team Meteor is a really great evil team because of their sheer determination in their goals. I mean, it took this long for Taka to flinch and finally break free from his ideals. The two head honchos, Solaris and Lin, continue to be ruthless despite the former having some sense of affability. The latter's just a full-blown murder machine. It's been very clear that Team Meteor WILL get those gems, no matter what. Even if the whole world stands against them. Having them redeem themselves really lessens their impact because it's been established from the beginning that they're truly aligned to their goals.

 

The concept of redeeming villains is not a bad idea, but it's not always necessary. Team Meteor is still a great villain despite their lack of pacifism and complete ruthlessness because of they just won't give up. A common trait usually seen in many protagonists. No matter how many times the player thwarts their schemes, Team Meteor just keeps on getting back, and back. That kind of trait humanizes them in some way. And I just personally think that Team Meteor AS a whole has no need for redemption. It's been shown very often in game that even the mere grunts you see are just humans too. Tara, Eclipse, etc etc. All of them show deeper characterization that makes them easier to connect to. Some of the other Meteor members like Simon and Taka undergoing redemption makes perfect sense due to what they've experienced, but having the whole group rebrand and split off like Plasma did is pretty meager.

 

All in all, I think that Team Meteor is a very respectable evil team, not because of their callousness, but as I said, because of their virtue of not giving up. They stand by their goals, even if they know how dangerous and how many times they're damaging the region. They accept that inherent fact that it's evil, and that's why I like them. They're not unsure of their goals and are determined to get what they want. Having them undergo a redemption arc lessens that virtue. The concept of everything not being black and white already makes sense because not everyone in Team Meteor is completely evil. That's been established many times already. And of course, diametrically, not every one of our heroes is completely good either. You can make an argument that Saphira and Titania are just as ruthless as Solaris and Lin, respectively. Their goals might be different, but all of them have blood on their hands.

 

Reborn as a whole is already completely gray. You can't define any of the factions and groups into just one thing, so the concept of redemption is quite hazy since none of them are completely extremist in the first place. That said, I do think that SOME of the Meteor characters could go under some sort of redemption. Taka in particular is already a huge candidate. Cal already went one and is going through one. And I can even see Zero possibly doing that too. But the whole team? The chances are pretty slim. Do take all of this with a grain of salt though. No offense is meant at all to the OP's ideas. 

[The Swordsman]

  On 12/14/2017 at 4:17 AM, BIGJRA said:

Sirius? Yeah fuck you Sirius.

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Yeah I completely agree, I personally consider him to be a worse person than Lin thanks to what he did to Eclipse.

 

  On 12/14/2017 at 4:17 AM, BIGJRA said:

Then again he tried to... sacrifice...? Luna, so maybe not.

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Actually he tried to perform a exorcism, since if I remember right, he doesn't consider Luna's obsession with darkness to be something natural to her, so in his view she must be possessed. While there are cases of ghost pokemon demonically possessing people in the original set of games (I WANT BLOOD!) and the dark type is actually is the evil type in Japan, personally I think her obsession is a form of rebellion against her father.

[BIGJRA]

  On 12/15/2017 at 4:51 AM, The Swordsman said:

Actually he tried to perform a exorcism, since if I remember right, he doesn't consider Luna's obsession with darkness to be something natural to her, so in his view she must be possessed. While there are cases of ghost pokemon demonically possessing people in the original set of games (I WANT BLOOD!) and the dark type is actually is the evil type in Japan, personally I think her obsession is a form of rebellion against her father.

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Good point, almost makes him more sympathetic you'd think. Clearly he's wrong, clearly his methods are wrong, but he's just trying to expunge evil from his daughter.