(Spoilers) Gym Leaders/Major Trainers using the same Pokemon

[Zargerth]

Am I the only one bothered by this? I mean, Radomus and Luna both have Malamar, and they're right next to one other in order. Why not give Radomus Beheeyem instead for example?

 

Spoiler

Then there's Blake and Titania, both of whom use A-Sandslash, as well as Solaris, Fern and Titania who all have Scizor, albeit Titania's is a Mega. Oh, and Eustace has Scizor too. At least there are other Gym Leaders between some of these battles.

 

Togekiss is also very common and frequent, since Ciel, Victoria and Adrienn have one. Again, no Gym Leaders between these battles.

 

I guess my point is that it gets boring to see the same mons over and over again, and from what I understand, all of them run similar sets too. Maybe I'm just nitpicking. What are your opinions on this?

[Azeria]

Just now, Zargerth said:

Am I the only one bothered by this? I mean, Radomus and Luna both have Malamar, and they're right next to one other in order. Why not give Radomus Beheeyem instead for example?

 

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Then there's Blake and Titania, both of whom use A-Sandslash, as well as Solaris, Fern and Titania who all have Scizor, albeit Titania's is a Mega. Oh, and Eustace has Scizor too. At least there are other Gym Leaders between some of these battles.

 

Togekiss is also very common and frequent, since Ciel, Victoria and Adrienn have one. Again, no Gym Leaders between these battles.

 

I guess my point is that it gets boring to see the same mons over and over again, and from what I understand, all of them run similar sets too. Maybe I'm just nitpicking. What are your opinions on this?

Spoiler

 

Malamar is pretty nice for Radomus as a check to Dark/Ghost types, and generally very fitting. Luna's team is a mess in and of itself, let's not get into that lol.

 

Alola Slash is especially strange when another Slush Rusher that works better on Blake's field exists; Beartic. 130 attack, slightly superior bulk, better movepool. It'd be more unique as an ace than Alola-Slash being used everywhere..

 

Other notable ones include both Shade and Cain having Mimikyu despite it being Shade's ace...

Sirius, Taka and Ciel all having Minior is also weird but I don't mind it nearly as much as some of the others;

Blake having Gyarados and Fern with Scizor is especially egregious when you realise you fight them right before Solaris, who also has those 2 Pokemon; You're fighting the same 2 Pokemon twice in a row in the exact same way, it gets repetitive and boring.

 

Can't forget about Excadrill and Lucario; The former being on Terra, Solaris and Titania(She and Solaris being the only ones to make good use of it at that) while the latter is on...Victoria, Kiki and Samson.

 

 

 

[Zargerth]

33 minutes ago, Azeria said:

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Malamar is pretty nice for Radomus as a check to Dark/Ghost types, and generally very fitting. Luna's team is a mess in and of itself, let's not get into that lol.

 

Alola Slash is especially strange when another Slush Rusher that works better on Blake's field exists; Beartic. 130 attack, slightly superior bulk, better movepool. It'd be more unique as an ace than Alola-Slash being used everywhere..

 

Other notable ones include both Shade and Cain having Mimikyu despite it being Shade's ace...

Sirius, Taka and Ciel all having Minior is also weird but I don't mind it nearly as much as some of the others;

Blake having Gyarados and Fern with Scizor is especially egregious when you realise you fight them right before Solaris, who also has those 2 Pokemon; You're fighting the same 2 Pokemon twice in a row in the exact same way, it gets repetitive and boring.

 

Can't forget about Excadrill and Lucario; The former being on Terra, Solaris and Titania(She and Solaris being the only ones to make good use of it at that) while the latter is on...Victoria, Kiki and Samson.

 

 

 

Spoiler

If you insist!

 

Beartic seems like a cool idea (I'll show myself out), and it has decent variety in it's movepool. There's the Pokemon Savage Beartic, though. Then again, Shelly has Scolipede despite Scolipede being a part of an event, so it really isn't that big of a problem.

 

Completely forgot Cain's Mimikyu. I wonder why Ciel's Archeops got replaced by Minior?

As for Gyarados, Scizor and Lucario: I know they're really good on their own, but I have to agree with you on that it gets repetitive fighting these same mons, especially twice in a row. I dunno how something like Golisopod works for either Fern or Solaris. In Solaris' case it's Doubles, so I guess Golisopod is kinda meh simply because of Emergency Exit. Vikavolt, Pinsir and Escavalier are other alternatives, if we stick to Bug-types.

 

Kommo-o for Samson would have been so awesome. I know some sound-based moves get buffed in the Big Top field, like Boomburst, so maybe it buffs Clanging Scales, too?

 

You forgot Garchomp: Both Solaris and Terra has one. Kinda makes sense, though. You know what Terra need? TorTerra!

 

[Shia]

To be honest, I didn't like most of the team changes at all. I actually like a lot of the Gen 7 Pokemon, but it seems like they're spread apart haphazardly. Though, that could be because this is the first time I've played Reborn in the middle of a new generation, so it's probably not as haphazard as I think it is. However though, most notably, I was the most off put by Fern having a Rowlet. Decidueye sorta fits him, with the "glasses"-like face of Decidueye, but Serperior's condescending appearance fit Fern to a T. 

 

Victoria having an Incineroar ain't that bad. It still fits a physically-oriented fire type, but I feel Emboar is still close to home for someone like her. Primarina and Cain is honestly really fitting though. I'm also really confused about Shade's ace being a Mimikyu. I feel like it's such a divergence from what his reputation is and how off-putting he really is, that it sort of fits. But at the same time, looking at it at first, it doesn't. At all. But then again, changing Shade's ace from Chandelure to Mimikyu makes Chandelure a more specific Pokemon for Sirius, which is even more fitting.

[GenEric]

7 minutes ago, SHIA II said:

 

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To be honest, I didn't like most of the team changes at all. I actually like a lot of the Gen 7 Pokemon, but it seems like they're spread apart haphazardly. Though, that could be because this is the first time I've played Reborn in the middle of a new generation, so it's probably not as haphazard as I think it is. However though, most notably, I was the most off put by Fern having a Rowlet. Decidueye sorta fits him, with the "glasses"-like face of Decidueye, but Serperior's condescending appearance fit Fern to a T. 

 

Victoria having an Incineroar ain't that bad. It still fits a physically-oriented fire type, but I feel Emboar is still close to home for someone like her. Primarina and Cain is honestly really fitting though. I'm also really confused about Shade's ace being a Mimikyu. I feel like it's such a divergence from what his reputation is and how off-putting he really is, that it sort of fits. But at the same time, looking at it at first, it doesn't. At all. But then again, changing Shade's ace from Chandelure to Mimikyu makes Chandelure a more specific Pokemon for Sirius, which is even more fitting.
 

 

 

i think mimikyu's mystery under the cloth fits shade perfectly since we know almost nothing about shade

[Shia]

Just now, ArcherEric said:

i think mimikyu's mystery under the cloth fits shade perfectly since we know almost nothing about shade

I think its cute appearance is also a nod to Shade's mysterious connection to a certain, precocious character we know. Anna. 

[GenEric]

2 minutes ago, SHIA II said:

I think its cute appearance is also a nod to Shade's mysterious connection to a certain, precocious character we know. Anna. 

who knows 

Spoiler

maybe anna is shade

 

[Blontary]

The thing doesn't bother me so much actually, some mons are just so good that they should fit in every monoteam. I mean, for example, scizor only has one weakness, has a decent bulk and can hit veeery hard, it would be strange if it was not included

[Azeria]

12 minutes ago, Blontary said:

The thing doesn't bother me so much actually, some mons are just so good that they should fit in every monoteam. I mean, for example, scizor only has one weakness, has a decent bulk and can hit veeery hard, it would be strange if it was not included

It's necessary for Titania and Bennett's monos sure, but for Fern and Solaris? It just seems like there's wayy too many of them.

[2awk4u]

I kinda hate that the mono teams were just thrown out the window by the time we entered route 1 in E16 and even more now that they aren't mono, it made rival battles unique in the way that usual rival battles aren't, at least by the time we fight everyone out of their monos in e16, there's a reason( head cannon or not). Fern gave his up because he's an cocky jerk who only appreciates power, which his types don't give a lot of by the time we reach randomus.  Cain ends adopting his oshawott/popplio after saving from being stuck at the lighthouse. many people theorized that Victoria raised a togekiss in order to have an ace against solaris since she's gunning for him after killing kiki

[LordWallace]

My guess as to why thats the case is that most of those Pokemon you listed are pretty damn good, and part of Reborn's difficulty especially later on comes from the quality of opposing teams. Solaris' team is pretty much a BW OU Sand team lol. Idk I never found it too jarring in most cases, a lot of it also has to do with the fact that Ame keeps the leaders' ace Pokemon faithful to what the actual leaders used in the league so thats why for example Terra still has a Garchomp even though we fight Solaris right after her, and why Noel keeps Clefable even after Gen 6 made it Fairy. Good Pokemon just naturally got used a lot on NPC teams to make their teams more of a threat to the player.

[Alaris]

4 hours ago, LordWallace said:

My guess as to why thats the case is that most of those Pokemon you listed are pretty damn good, and part of Reborn's difficulty especially later on comes from the quality of opposing teams. Solaris' team is pretty much a BW OU Sand team lol. Idk I never found it too jarring in most cases, a lot of it also has to do with the fact that Ame keeps the leaders' ace Pokemon faithful to what the actual leaders used in the league so thats why for example Terra still has a Garchomp even though we fight Solaris right after her, and why Noel keeps Clefable even after Gen 6 made it Fairy. Good Pokemon just naturally got used a lot on NPC teams to make their teams more of a threat to the player.

 

Then Shade should have kept Chandelure as his ace and Tania's ace should be (M-)Scizor instead of Aegislash...

 

I haven't personally fought the leaders with their new teams, but now that I read this I think it's a shame that Ciel lost her Archeops... it was the pokemon that gave me more trouble haha

[Zargerth]

If the reason behind the repetitive use of mons is the fact that Gym Leader and Major Trainers teams are kept (relatively) the same, I can respect that. However, I also have to point out that competitive viability =/= in-game viability. Of course mons like Scizor are good either way, but then (I sound like a broken record by now) there's Silvally: placed in the lowest possible ranking (PU) and yet in Reborn it's easily one of the better mons. 

 

Spoiler

I like to think that with field effects in play some underrated mons could actually be outright terrifying: just think about Escavalier in Titania's field:

• Gets Smart Strike buffs
• Has only one weakness like Scizor, and ties with Excadrill in 135 base Attack
• Gains Defense buff upon entering if it has Shell Armor ability. Overcoat on the other hand prevents Hail damage
• Aurora Veil further supplements its great 105 base Defenses

The only disadvantage Escavalier has is its abysmal Speed. In my opinion, as long as field effects are a thing they also weigh in on the difficulty of the game, not just OU mons.

 

As for Minior - I've been playing through the game again just realised how often you battle one. I know Minior is a meteor, and it matches with Team Meteor's "theme", but enough is enough. Strikes me even more odd for Ciel to have Minior.

 

[Paperblade]

Spoiler

Surprised no one has mentioned Klefki. If you don't fight the few random trainers that exist in the desert and are super easy to miss, it's easy to go from Taka, to Corin, to Titania, all of which have a Klefki in their lineup. At least Adrienn doesn't have one too.

 

One thing that bugged me doing fresh playthroughs in e17 was it felt like there was a higher proportion of gen7 mons and some of them being thrown into teams because they're new and shiny--Rowlet for Fern, Raichu for Victoria, Mimikyu/Marowak for Cain, Exeggutor/Komala for Taka, Sandslash-A for Serra/Blake/Titania, Minior for Ciel AND Sirius AND Taka AND some random grunts.

 

Also, Scizor is a great pokemon, but does Fern really need another pokemon with a Fire weakness on top of his two grass types? His whole team is super fire/fighting weak (coughblazikencough) in general so it always felt weird to me. Might as well just have let him keep Ferrothorn

 

On 12/20/2017 at 3:46 PM, 2awk4u said:

I kinda hate that the mono teams were just thrown out the window by the time we entered route 1 in E16 and even more now that they aren't mono, it made rival battles unique in the way that usual rival battles aren't, at least by the time we fight everyone out of their monos in e16, there's a reason( head cannon or not). Fern gave his up because he's an cocky jerk who only appreciates power, which his types don't give a lot of by the time we reach randomus.  Cain ends adopting his oshawott/popplio after saving from being stuck at the lighthouse. many people theorized that Victoria raised a togekiss in order to have an ace against solaris since she's gunning for him after killing kiki

I disagree here, in a game where you fight a monotype of every team already due to 18 gyms, and two of Poison/Fighting due to the nature of Corey/Kiki, it felt very redundant to fight yet more monotype teams. It made the few fights that weren't monotype teams stand out, but not in a good way since it was more "finally" and not "oh cool", and took away from the feeling of gym leaders being gym leaders. Samson is a lot less interesting as a mono-fighting encounter when I've battled Victoria like 5 times already plus Kiki.

[2awk4u]

@Paperblade we can agree to disagree, maybe if the gym leaders had more theme oriented rather than type oriented, then there could be a compromise between the 2. That or maybe we could have Victoria stop blocking us each time we fight a leader that she decides to be concerned with(jk). The whole thing with monotype rivals is that it's a something new compared to every other rival in the mainstream games except for N since he change his team depending on the mons in the adjacent routes. tbh Samson just isn't a leader to be interested by, he doesn't have anything other than his banter with Ciel and Terra. yeah his battle could be challenging due to the big-top arena field but i don't think Victoria hampers  Samson since i don't they used a lot of the same mons. A batlle can be good despite fighting a similar type multiple times but it depends on the ai and your decisons and the variety of mons in a team.

[HAWmaro]

Spoiler

To be honest the weirdest change was ciel losing her archepos and ESPECIALLY talonflame, made what used to be IMO the hardest Gym into a cake walk in comparison to others. as for Garchomp, he does seem for fit Solaris perfectly but if you remove it from Terra's team and replace with something like TorTERRIBLE you'll make her gym battle much easier which i don't think we want.

 

[DiamondTiaraIsBest]

 

Spoiler

To be fair Talonflame is pretty weak now with the Gale Wings nerf, and it doesn't really help with any of a flying monotype team's weaknesses.

 

[HAWmaro]

Spoiler

True I entirely forgot about that nerf and was in a gen 6 mind set

 

[Zargerth]

@HAWmaro(since quote doesn't seem to work)

 

Spoiler

Yeah, Torterra is pretty bad, but I just thought it would be funny for Terra to use a mon with her name. Flygon could also work, considering that now it gets Dragon Dance - and Draco Meteor (or rather Dragon-type) is physical in Gen I, so even after one DD it can sweep through an entire team.

 

Talonflame has great Speed stat, so even with the nerf to Gale Wings only some mons and priority moves go first. I'm surprised that no one has Skarmory, neither Ciel nor Titania (even though she leaves the manor with her Skarmory, she doesn't use it in battle).

 

[Captain Goat]

I don't particularly mind some 'mons being used by several characters, since most of the time this overlap is not with their aces, just stronger tan average 'mons that can fit in pretty much every team even just filling space. What I do dislike is that E17 in particular has gone a bit overboard with the Gen 7 stuff, even replacing much better fitting 'mons (thematically) like Fern's old Snivy.

 

Also, characters losing their monotypes in this episode (Cain, Victoria, Fern and Sigmund, if I'm not forgetting anyone) is kind of good gameplay-wise, because it makes them more distinct from the regular Gym Leaders and more difficult to battle, but at the same time it's kind of bad for the purposes of the story. As of last episode, all the rivals started the story playing monotype because they were reserve leaders so that's what they were used to, but slowly introduced new types and 'mons as the plot advanced because of things that had happened to them, in other words, them breaking away from their monos was subtle character development, and now that has been erased, because they never played monotype in the first place. Even some in-game dialogues were cut off this episode to accommodate, like Fern mentioning that he lost once to Aya because of the grass vs poison match up or Cain saying that he had specifically prepared a non-pure poison team to use against Radomus. I miss those little things.

[Zane0144]

Spoiler

Yeah, Torterra is pretty bad, but I just thought it would be funny for Terra to use a mon with her name. Flygon could also work, considering that now it gets Dragon Dance - and Draco Meteor (or rather Dragon-type) is physical in Gen I, so even after one DD it can sweep through an entire team.

Please make this a thing. Please!

[Yagami]

Are you sure?

Blizzard has 90% accuracy in the glitch field.Let a pokemon hold wide lens and voila 99% accuracy.So that's 3 pokemon out with 1 move.The torterra,flygon and garchomp.

And I don't think dragon was physical in gen 1.iirc it was special.Hence Terra's garchomp was holding assault vest to increase sp. defense and at the same increasing sp. attack because of the field and was using draco meteor.

Also the scariest pokemon in the glitch field is quagsire.In ep. 17,it holds one of those seeds which makes it a typeless pokemon so no weakness.

 

[Zargerth]

@Yagami

Spoiler

You're right, Dragon was special. My mistake. Makes sense for Garchomp to hold Assault Vest, since Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense are the same stat.

 

Every leader has counters, like Alakazam to Samson's team or Heracross against Luna (even Honchkrow gets KO'd after a Moxie boost). In order to K.O Garchomp (or Flygon) with Blizzard you need something faster than it, which leaves you with A-Ninetales and Froslass. Not all people prepare counter-teams for each leader, so I don't really know what's wrong with weaknesses. I didn't even mean to imply Terra should have all 3: Torterra, Flygon and Garchomp. I was toying with the idea of changing her Garchomp only.

 

Edit: Now that you pointed out that Terra's Garchomp has Assault Vest, I stand corrected: I claimed all of the frequently seen mons run same (kind of) sets. Clearly that's not the case, not with Garchomps at least.

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by Zargerth

[HAWmaro]

So that seed was the cause of the typless bullshit?! i lost my save so replayed the game in ep17 public beta and Terra gave me the msot trouble with quagsire even though i usually beat her relatively easily...

[Maqqy]

50/50 on the team changes. Some fitted and was a great addition (For example, Shade's Mimikyu and Cain's Primarina) while some others just seemed out of place.

 

You're absolutely right about mons being repetitive in teams. It helps in the competitive side of the game, yet the diversity side fells short. For me, there are plenty of mons that can be used that can take advantage of respective fields and items when used right. Mons that are more fitting for those characters.

 

P.S. Minior is actually better than Archeops for Ciel. I could KO Archeops with a single discharge while Minior could actually take a hit and set up with shell smash and it's ability takes the gist.