The Political Soap Box

[Maelstrom]

I probably just made this as a place to vent my frustration with the political scene, but here it is. A specifically sanctified location for the discussion of political issues, not least being the United States presidential election.

It's just that the idea of Romney having as many supporters as he does is absolutely astounding to me.

Anyways, first things first: rules.

No name-calling. If you think a position is stupid, ignorant, retarded, whatever... that is just an opinion and name-calling is just beneath anyone having an intelligent conversation. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the person with that view is necessarily any of those. They are either simply be unaware of an important factor or unaware of a factor's full impact or have different values or priorities than yourself. If you feel that an idea or position is stupid, ignorant, retarded, etc... well, that's just not proper. An idea or position is simply incorrect or uninformed. You'll just have to support your claim with facts and reason, won't you? The idea is to educate/inform and have an intelligent discussion. There is nothing like opposing opinions to explore the depth of any subject.

Any violation of the above guideline will be quoted and corrected to show how one can argue without being unnecessarily offensive. I will not edit, delete or otherwise alter an original post unless it is clear that there is an utter lack of respect or relevance to what is being discussed.

And well, really that is pretty much the only guideline- respect. No one knows everything, no one is aware of everything. And that is where the education part comes in- learning something you didn't know or looking at something from a perspective you've never seen it from.

[Summer]

Even though I don't live in the US and Romney v Obama election has absolutely no impact where I live, I still believe Romney shouldn't get the spot. It's just my opinion, really.

[Noivy]

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Edited September 14, 2016 by Noivy

[Neo]

I think it's a damn shame that our country allows multiple people to run for the presidential office, then only gives two media coverage, or even a debate for that matter. It's a ridiculous system that needs to stop. I guarantee you that if people could knew they could vote other than Republican or Democrat, they'd pounce on it.

[Amethyst]

If somebody fires a bullet and then passes the gun to someone else who should be blamed for the shooting?

#national debt metaphors

[Voctrode]

Dunno why people think that the President is 100% responsible for every little thing that happens. I'm waiting for really.. interesting people to say that Hurricane Sandy is a message from God to get Obama out of the White House >_>

[Maelstrom]

Ohai.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNzCI_oeCJw&feature=related

[Neo]

You know what's a damn shame?

The fact that the person who is going to win tomorrow is going to continue with business as usual.

The fact that the candidates who might actually do something are going to share between 1-5% of the vote.

The fact that the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) is going to remain a law

The fact that the Patriot Act is going to remain law

The fact that women are limited in what they can do in regards to contraception

The fact that we're one of the few countries who hasn't signed the Ottowa Treaty- meaning that we can still use anti-personnel landmines if we chose

For those of you wondering:

If I could vote, my vote'd go to Jill Stein.

[Maelstrom]

You know what's a damn shame?

1-The fact that the person who is going to win tomorrow is going to continue with business as usual.

2- The fact that the candidates who might actually do something are going to share between 1-5% of the vote.

3- The fact that the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) is going to remain a law

4- The fact that the Patriot Act is going to remain law

5- The fact that women are limited in what they can do in regards to contraception

6- The fact that we're one of the few countries who hasn't signed the Ottowa Treaty- meaning that we can still use anti-personnel landmines if we chose

For those of you wondering:

7-If I could vote, my vote'd go to Jill Stein.

7-Who is Jill Stein?

2- Candidates who might actually do something? Would do something and Could do something are entirely different things. Do you forget that Republicans still rule the legislative branch, Obama's veto power not-withstanding? When people say stuff like "candidate that will do something" it makes me believe that they think they automatically get their way, that policies (new or old) will be changed right away. Obama's presidency is a perfect example of it and it seems like people don't understand how much the Republican Party's campain of Obstructionism has actually done.

5- Yeah, proc-choice isn't pro-abortion. No one likes abortion.

6- We don't deploy anti-personnel mines (such as claymores) really for anything except base defense. String 'em up around the base and keep a watch on the perimeter. Rules of engagement and ethical considerations limit both what we are capable and willing to employ them for out in the field. Anti-personnel mines in the form of IEDs is how the enemy kills us. Attempting to use it against them is ridiculously ludicris. Just because we CAN use 'em doesn't mean we are using 'em. Pretty sure we didn't have any for COP defense on this deployment either.

On an unrelated note:

[Neo]

7-Who is Jill Stein?

http://www.jillstein.org/

2- Candidates who might actually do something? Would do something and Could do something are entirely different things. Do you forget that Republicans still rule the legislative branch, Obama's veto power not-withstanding? When people say stuff like "candidate that will do something" it makes me believe that they think they automatically get their way, that policies (new or old) will be changed right away. Obama's presidency is a perfect example of it and it seems like people don't understand how much the Republican Party's campain of Obstructionism has actually done.

I'm taking that into account. Seeing as how some of the Green parties views line up the both Republicans and Democarts.

5- Yeah, proc-choice isn't pro-abortion. No one likes abortion.

Obviously, but doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to make an informed decision.

6- We don't deploy anti-personnel mines (such as claymores) really for anything except base defense. String 'em up around the base and keep a watch on the perimeter. Rules of engagement and ethical considerations limit both what we are capable and willing to employ them for out in the field. Anti-personnel mines in the form of IEDs is how the enemy kills us. Attempting to use it against them is ridiculously ludicris. Just because we CAN use 'em doesn't mean we are using 'em. Pretty sure we didn't have any for COP defense on this deployment either.

I know that we're not usin' 'em. Point is if we're committed to not using them, why not sign the damn treaty?

[Maelstrom]

Cuz it wants to keep the option open?

Example of obstruction by repbulicans, this time holding up healtcare for 9/11 responders. Just for perspective.

[Neo]

Like all political parties, they agree on some fronts, but disagree on others.

Also, I'm not doubting you. I read the Texas Republican Party's platform, and it said "Return of the traditional filibuster~~~~~~~"

[Kamina]

If I could vote, I would vote for one of the third party candidates (probably gary johnson) since in the state that I live in (illinois), it is apparent that Obama is going to take all of the seats from it. If more people start voting for third party candidates than they might finally get some media attention and not be ignored and to me that vote would be of bigger significance than promoting the two party system. The founding fathers agreed that having political parties was a bad idea and it is because it forces politicians to share the same views as their respective parties even if they do not have the people’s interest at heart. While I doubt we can end the political party system for good, if we allow more political parties equal media attention than we can at least get more representation from the people. I personally do not think Obama has done all that he could have like closing Guantanamo, stop increasing drone strikes in the middle east, stop treating Israel like it is our best ally and not legalizing marijuana which would have greatly decreased the amount of deaths from the failing drug war at home and I could list a bunch more if I had the time. However if I lived in a swing state such as Ohio, I would probably vote Obama just because Romney flip flops on just about every damn thing and I can never really tell where he stands on any issue. He seems like the person who changes position just to get more voters and not what he actually thinks about the issues but I guess that is what happens when you have a two party system.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Berserker

[Huggyboo]

I'm just gonna post what i put on facebook:

"Honestly picking our president is like making a choice between a Ham or Turkey sandwich. Both have good taste, and we tend to crave them at different times. Also what comes with the sandwich can totally change the flavor but the main meat is still important. We also have stuff like roast beef and chicken salad... So all i gotta say is be happy with your choice of Ham or Turkey. Savor that favor and enjoy everything that came on it, whether your order came with it or not.

On my final note, tacos for 2016, who's with me?"

[TheNewEnigma]

I'm just gonna post what i put on facebook:

"Honestly picking our president is like making a choice between a Ham or Turkey sandwich. Both have good taste, and we tend to crave them at different times. Also what comes with the sandwich can totally change the flavor but the main meat is still important. We also have stuff like roast beef and chicken salad... So all i gotta say is be happy with your choice of Ham or Turkey. Savor that favor and enjoy everything that came on it, whether your order came with it or not.

On my final note, tacos for 2016, who's with me?"

What does that make Bush? A Marmite sandwich that noone wants?

[The Fush]

Obama won ok.

[TheNewEnigma]

Obama won ok.

No surprise he did, all these first time voting teenagers voting for him because "He's soo cool and he cares about my problems and so what if he won't get this country out of a economic crisis, he's tah bestest!" And I'm not saying the people on reborn who voted for him are stupid, just the ignorant ones. And yes, I know, I shouldnt be even telling you guys about this since I currently do not reside in the United States, but if I still did, I'd be dissapointed at my generation.

[Maelstrom]

No surprise he did, all these first time voting teenagers voting for him because "He's soo cool and he cares about my problems and so what if he won't get this country out of a economic crisis, he's tah bestest!" And I'm not saying the people on reborn who voted for him are stupid, just the ignorant ones. And yes, I know, I shouldnt be even telling you guys about this since I currently do not reside in the United States, but if I still did, I'd be dissapointed at my generation.

That's kind of what happened last time. Not so much this time. So excuse me if I disagree that he isn't/hasn't gotten the country out of its economic crisis.

Honestly, the bailouts did work, as unpopular as it was because we had to prop up the damned money grubbers that got us into so much debt in the first place. And then there was the auto industry bailout. Which Romney wouldn't have done, allowing a rather... HUGE... number of people to become unemployed. We didn't do the bailouts because we wanted too, but because we had to. A lot of livelihoods were saved. Like I've said before, letting Detroit go bankrupt would have been the wrong thing to do. The mass joblessness, so many people who would have been able to afford basic things, and all the other stores and industries that would have gone under because they provided goods and services to all these people, made their living that way. These are Americans we're talking about. Many Republicans view it like cutting off an infected limb. Well you can do that to a limb and almost forget about it. If you just cut off a bunch of people... well, they still have to eat and find a place to sleep and all in all, live. People with nothing to lose and a life to gain have a lot fewer things holding them back. It'd be more like that severed limb would grow some teeth and bite us all in the ass.

As far as the economic crisis is going, it's not really a crisis, exactly anymore. Unemployment rate has decreased, and things are recovering slowly. Maybe it's only in America where you can buy and have shit just like that that a lot of its people feel like it should have all ended and been fixed overnight, or even over just four years. It never got as bad as any of the past depressions and all those past examples all emphasize that recovery takes time.

Oh and did I mention that many/most measures Obama has tried to pass has been blocked and hindered by Republicans looking to regain power for their party? That might have had some sort of effect too. >>

The next enormous even that will shape the future of American and/or global economic recovery is what the entire legislative branch plans on doing about that automatic cutoff that ends a lot of tax cuts as well as government spending.

[Neo]

Adding onto what Mael said,

We haven't truly been in a recession since 2010. We've been digging out tooth and nail, and yeah it's gonna be a while until we're back to where we were before the crash, but in the meantime all we can do is support American industry (those of us who ARE American).

There's also the pretty fact that Obama has the Republicans by the balls this time around. They've got an election to think about 4 years in the future, and if they come out of these four looking like assholes again, there's no way they'll win.

[Maelstrom]

Geh, I hate it when I'm wrong. That sheepish feeling.

Well, that strikes down one issue I had with him. Now what was left... foreign policy, immigration, women's rights and issues, corporations are people (which I can sorta see, but then it's being used for political gain and flaws in the system atm), tax policy.

But it's still odd that he would disagree with Obama, but then maybe he didn't know Obama's stimulus included the mandatory restructuring he was talking about.

[The Fush]

Geh, I hate it when I'm wrong. That sheepish feeling.

Well, that strikes down one issue I had with him. Now what was left... foreign policy, immigration, women's rights and issues, corporations are people (which I can sorta see, but then it's being used for political gain and flaws in the system atm), tax policy.

But it's still odd that he would disagree with Obama, but then maybe he didn't know Obama's stimulus included the mandatory restructuring he was talking about.

It's funny, because after Obama won, Romney gave a speech saying that it was ok for Obama to be in charge and that he would do good.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

[Neo]

It's funny, because after Obama won, Romney gave a speech saying that it was ok for Obama to be in charge and that he would do good.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

It's called being politically correct. The last thing you want to do is look like an even bigger asshole after a loss. Hence his taking the defeat "gracefully".

[Melody]

Let.s be honest, This place isn't getting anywhere but downhill on the political path, The way we're going, US has no chance of survival if we have people in office such as Obama because he wants to make the richer poor, and the poorer rich. I mean maybe if he finds a way to create more jobs other than the minimum wage ones he is creating while destroying business which support jobs with degrees. He so far has done nothing to make the economic situation we have stable but then again...No president has done decent since Clinton.

[Maelstrom]

When the rich pay a smaller portion in taxes than those far poorer than they are, there's a problem. The rich sure as hell aren't getting any poorer anytime soon. They'd rather pad their own pay check than increase wages for the workers they already have or hire new ones.

Obama stabilized the economy and the economy is recovering by all economic reports. It's just not fast. The wealthy's obsessive hoarding and inablity to share or support their nation's lowest who buy their goods and services is rather shocking. The small tax increases would not be enough to destroy anything. If you're making over %200,000 and your taxes go up by as much as 5%, you will not be hurting for anything.

[Maelstrom]

Bump to give props to Abe Lincoln.