The Political Soap Box

[Deleted User]

What I hear from you every time I bring up race is: GUYS RACISM ENDED IN 1964, DON'T BE SILLY

I've never ONCE called you specifically a racist, yet here you are defending yourself. I'm well aware that not all white people are racist, but until you understand the vast amount of racism that occurs in this countries social and political structures, there's no point in having a conversation.

Did you forget that convenient little part of the tweet compilation above?

We can have convos about why it's wrong to use 'aspie' or 'autistic' as a slur, or that mistreatment of autistic people is an issue, and there you are rallying, praising the person who started the conversation and contributing something meaningful to it. Now that the lens is turned on a group you're apart of, and its behavior condemned you've got a problem. I get it, I was the same way once. Take the chance and the opportunity to educate yourself on the issue and move forward

I'm well aware that racism is very well indeed still a thing and if you look back on my posts you'd see that quite clearly, but it'd help your case if you didn't generalize so much and make it seem as if ALL white people are racist. Even if that's not the point your trying to make, often times that's the way it comes across.

[Chevaleresse]

I am educated on the topic. I realize that there is still a systemic issue with racism, but I fail to see how bringing up minstrel theater (which ended in 1910, more or less) or other such issues is relevant to the modern treatment of the black community by police forces. It doesn't help anyone and makes it difficult for me to actually have a discussion about how the issue could be solved. Yes, it's good to learn from history, but in this case the issue is not helped by that recollection.

[Deleted User]

I am educated on the topic. I realize that there is still a systemic issue with racism, but I fail to see how bringing up minstrel theater (which ended in 1910, more or less) or other such issues is relevant to the modern treatment of the black community by police forces. It doesn't help anyone and makes it difficult for me to actually have a discussion about how the issue could be solved. Yes, it's good to learn from history, but in this case the issue is not helped by that recollection.

It's not just the police forces to be fair. However I believe that as the years go on and the old crones pass away, the issue will continue to become smaller and smaller. You can't ever expect to completely eliminate racism. It'd be like trying to eliminate the common cold from existence.

[Neo]

I am educated on the topic. I realize that there is still a systemic issue with racism, but I fail to see how bringing up minstrel theater (which ended in 1910, more or less) or other such issues is relevant to the modern treatment of the black community by police forces. It doesn't help anyone and makes it difficult for me to actually have a discussion about how the issue could be solved. Yes, it's good to learn from history, but in this case the issue is not helped by that recollection.

I haven't addressed the current state of police actions against black people since the conversation in the 'That Feel' thread. Even I was talking about that, I could definitely draw lines to Minstrelsy and the current state of the black community in this country.

I'm well aware that racism is very well indeed still a thing and if you look back on my posts you'd see that quite clearly, but it'd help your case if you didn't generalize so much and make it seem as if ALL white people are racist. Even if that's not the point your trying to make, often times that's the way it comes across.

Like I've stated before, I recognize that not all white people are racist. Many aren't. In the same way all men aren't misogynists, but benefit from Patriarchy, all white people benefit from racist power structures and social ideas it's as simple as that. I don't see where the dispute is, just as you don't need to defend men for all the horrible shit that's been done by our gender, there's no need to defend white people when it comes to speaking about race. If it doesn't apply to you, cool, keep doing what you're doing, hell, go out and educate other people on it. If it does, then do some serious introspection and try to educate yourself.

(Sucks to be generalized though, huh? Try getting that shit on the daily)

[Deleted User]

(Sucks to be generalized though, huh? Try getting that shit on the daily)

Always been a firm believer of 'Actions speak louder than words' or in this case heritage. Now if I see a couple of hoodlum looking types, black OR white coming towards me, you'd better believe I'm getting mentally prepared to reach for my Springfield 1911.

[The Fush]

Always been a firm believer of 'Actions speak louder than words' or in this case heritage. Now if I see a couple of hoodlum looking types, black OR white coming towards me, you'd better believe I'm getting mentally prepared to reach for my Springfield 1911.

...in no way did he imply that you were the one making generalizations?

[Chase]

"all white men benefit from racist power structures and social ideas it's as simple as that"

Let's talk about the "idea" of justice. Most of your recent claims have been that the typical American police department generalizes black citizens as suspicious.

> Coming from the daughter of a defense attorney, this is absolutely true. I hear about discrimination in the justice system all the time, from the scene of the arrest to the court of law. The fact of the matter however, is you can holler and pitch a fit on the Twitterverse and the Internet all you so please, it's a social mindset that is continuing to be improved upon. As for your allegation on "white people benefiting from power structures"-...this isn't true at all. A white man who is conclusively found guilty of a crime by the evidence will indeed receive due punishment for said crime.

In the case of the Ferguson Riots, the looters didn't help the "cause" of the riot much at all, because they actually went and did things that would provoke the police to act. This act of "doing one's job" by the police force is not a reflection of the black people in this country as a whole, yet it reflects badly because it "causes" such generalization to occur.

I'm going to -have- to be honest here. Something that black people can do to IMPROVE their standing would be to collectively change the way the community appears in pop culture. There is a size-able number of "music artists" from the community that choose to advocate items that would only cause more negative generalization, such as drugs, sex, objectifying women or pursuing men due to sexual attributes, owning as much money as possible so that it can be spent on "Adult entertainment", relationships without commitment, and so on and so forth. Gang violence is heavily tied -to- the race card, whether any of us "likes" it or not, and is ALSO a part of pop culture via these same entertainers.

In the same token that some white people are living with a Southerner mentality, some people on the other side of the tracks aren't helping the black community's image improve much either.

Also, there -has- been progress here -since- 1964. Some of it which suggests that white people are becoming less and less profound as a whole.

- the introduction of race specific "scholarships" (that Whites are BARRED from, fyi) have helped several colored students escape "typical" socio-economic dregs and earn meaningful college degrees. As a result, you see more prominent African Americans in the workforce -and- even in the government (Herman Cain, President Obama, Thurgood Marshall, athletes, doctors, businessmen, and so on and so forth.)

- The increased awareness for "equality" outside of race is largely fueled by the progressiveness that came with the Civil Rights movement.

I don't understand why one person would be angry about defending one's race here. All of us are people, and all of us individuals experience discrimination at some point in our lives. We also experience progress.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Hilda

[Deleted User]

...in no way did he imply that you were the one making generalizations?

I didn't say he was. I just wanted to make that clear.

[The Fush]

> Coming from the daughter of a defense attorney, this is absolutely true. I hear about discrimination in the justice system all the time, from the scene of the arrest to the court of law. The fact of the matter however, is you can holler and pitch a fit on the Twitterverse and the Internet all you so please, it's a social mindset that is continuing to be improved upon. As for your allegation on "white people benefiting from power structures"-...this isn't true at all. A white man who is conclusively found guilty of a crime by the evidence will indeed receive due punishment for said crime.

I have to disagree; there have been several cases where white men have been given lenient sentences or even discharges having committed rape; though this may have more to do with that specific type of crime in general.

[Chase]

I have to disagree; there have been several cases where white men have been given lenient sentences or even discharges having committed rape; though this may have more to do with that specific type of crime in general.

Your point? There -absolutely- have been cases of reduced sentencing or exoneration for black men as well.

[Neo]

I'm going to -have- to be honest here. Something that black people can do to IMPROVE their standing would be to collectively change the way the community appears in pop culture. There is a size-able number of "music artists" from the community that choose to advocate items that would only cause more negative generalization, such as drugs, sex, objectifying women or pursuing men due to sexual attributes, owning as much money as possible so that it can be spent on "Adult entertainment", relationships without commitment, and so on and so forth. Gang violence is heavily tied -to- the race card, whether any of us "likes" it or not, and is ALSO a part of pop culture via these same entertainers.

You mean like 80% of white musical acts/artists? Why is it an issue when black people do it?

First thing's first, we're not looking for white acceptance. We as a people should not have to conform to white ideals of what is acceptable in order to get the respect we deserve. As I've stated before in this thread, gang violence in black communities arose as a RESULT of the conditions our communities are in and are NOT the cause of it.

- the introduction of race specific "scholarships" (that Whites are BARRED from, fyi) have helped several colored students escape "typical" socio-economic dregs and earn meaningful college degrees. As a result, you see more prominent African Americans in the workforce -and- even in the government (Herman Cain, President Obama, Thurgood Marshall, athletes, doctors, businessmen, and so on and so forth.)

Exceptions =/= The rule

I don't understand why one person would be angry about defending one's race here. All of us are people, and all of us individuals experience discrimination at some point in our lives. We also experience progress.

Because when speaking about black issues, it's very common for people to do exactly this. They want to whitewash them, and in a sense invalidate our struggle by making it seem like our issues are ones that everyone faces. By stating that the struggles the black community faces belong to everyone trivializes what we go through and makes it that much harder to achieve progress.

[Chase]

- So, is it a "black ideal" to go after drugs, sex, violence, money (in the criminal manner) , and so on? -I- wouldn't say so, and if you think that ...I dunno..."not breaking the law" is "too white" for you, I can't really say anything else here except for playing the bitch and telling you to expect negative consequences for those actions. I do recognize musicians that are white contribute to negative pop culture, and I -never- said that it was okay. Flip the coin though. It's not the same gravity as a white person calling someone the "n" word when you can have Eminem and Kanye at the same awards show and they have nearly the same degrading message or promotion of illegal activity in their lyrics. Again, some people are going to be harmful white people, but it's just as regressive when blacks do it too.

- They aren't exceptions -or- the rule. They are making progress and escaping poverty, thus enabling the black community to have a better future without the need to even -hold- protests. Of course, if you are going to answer my question above with "Yes" you might want to have a chat with the NAACP about what -they- think will help the black communities improve here, and if -they- promote breaking the law, times sure have changed since the March on Washington...

- I'm open for a discussion about this one. Name me a struggle the black community faces that whites don't face. I'll provide either a white flag agreement, or a historical example of why you are wrong.

[Jelly]

- I'm open for a discussion about this one. Name me a struggle the black community faces that whites don't face. I'll provide either a white flag agreement, or a historical example of why you are wrong.

facing the fear of being gunned the fuck down on the walk back from work/school/the convenience store

[Neo]

- So, is it a "black ideal" to go after drugs, sex, violence, money (in the criminal manner) , and so on? -I- wouldn't say so, and if you think that ...I dunno..."not breaking the law" is "too white" for you, I can't really say anything else here except for playing the bitch and telling you to expect negative consequences for those actions. I do recognize musicians that are white contribute to negative pop culture, and I -never- said that it was okay. Flip the coin though. It's not the same gravity as a white person calling someone the "n" word when you can have Eminem and Kanye at the same awards show and they have nearly the same degrading message or promotion of illegal activity in their lyrics. Again, some people are going to be harmful white people, but it's just as regressive when blacks do it too.

Here we go in this shit again. Mael jr.

The fact that you even compared Kanye West and Eminem in terms of negative themes in music proves you don't know a god damn thing you're talking about. Kanye's music doesn't endorse crime, drugs, or violence of any sort. Meanwhile Eminem is extremely fucking problematic with the large amount of violence and anti-woman sentiment in his music. The fact of the matter is nobody uses Eminem and other problematic artists as a reason for discrimination against white people, so there's no reason for the same thing to be done on the other foot.

- They aren't exceptions -or- the rule. They are making progress and escaping poverty, thus enabling the black community to have a better future without the need to even -hold- protests. Of course, if you are going to answer my question above with "Yes" you might want to have a chat with the NAACP about what -they- think will help the black communities improve here, and if -they- promote breaking the law, times sure have changed since the March on Washington...

Doesn't negate the existence of the school to prison pipeline, the fact that black people (and minorities in general) are discriminated against for having ethnic names (http://newsone.com/2273717/black-unemployment-2/), etc. etc.

[Chase]

facing the fear of being gunned the fuck down on the walk back from work/school/the convenience store

Judging from the last option given, I assume you are hinting at the Treyvon Martin incident. You didn't specify what time of day the walk was taking place, and I can assure you "facing a fear" of being "assaulted" in any way is a common thread for anyone walking around at night, regardless of race. In broad daylight, it's a little "less" justifiable unless you were living in a mostly white neighborhood in the south as a black person, or vise versa. I've lived in "section 8" my entire life, and even though yes, as Neo mentioned, crime rates go up with poverty rates (and causes gang activity to follow suit) the neighborhood has been "mostly" safe. Obviously though, if you're out at night for some reason, there is reason for a white person to fear being attacked.

[Jelly]

i meant to add "by the people who should be protecting you" to that

[Chase]

i meant to add "by the people who should be protecting you" to that

Ah. I agree that -that- was wrongful. I'm not "condoning" any police brutality here. At ALL.

Here we go in this shit again. Mael jr.

The fact that you even compared Kanye West and Eminem in terms of negative themes in music proves you don't know a god damn thing you're talking about. Kanye's music doesn't endorse crime, drugs, or violence of any sort. Meanwhile Eminem is extremely fucking problematic with the large amount of violence and anti-woman sentiment in his music. The fact of the matter is nobody uses Eminem and other problematic artists as a reason for discrimination against white people, so there's no reason for the same thing to be done on the other foot.

Doesn't negate the existence of the school to prison pipeline, the fact that black people (and minorities in general) are discriminated against for having ethnic names (http://newsone.com/2273717/black-unemployment-2/), etc. etc.

You're right about there being a lack of history to draw from in order to place white people in the same boat as blacks, Neo. That was NOT my intention. My question at the end of the first post I made in response was to find out why white people can't defend their race (because you know, black people do that all the time and I find it hypocritical to be upset about it happening.)

If you are to ask me, Kanye is just as guilty of objectifying women as Eminem is at discriminating against them. That's a moot argument. Both people CONTRIBUTE to the problem of hindering the progress of the black community. I wasn't even TALKING about how Eminem hurts the white community. It's also, EQUALLY WRONG. Again, there isn't much room to complain here though, because complaining about Eminem making "rap" influence black culture negatively ignores the fact that black rappers do the same thing. It's hypocritical.

There's a large amount of reasons for the school to prison pipeline that communities admittedly need to work to improve on. Like, for example, RETAINING students instead of having drop outs. Teaching students about why crime would -land- them in prison would probably be beneficial too. It would do wonders if the kids went to class and actually got their work done, graduated, and moved on with life.

Also, because you haven't really shut this down yet, I'm not going to budge on removing parts of our law that are actually used to protect ALL Americans, just because there is a stigma that a person's race provides reasonable suspicion. I'm all for black "CULTURE" to be left alone in the name of progress, as long as it doesn't involve breaching the freedoms and protections of others, and doesn't result in the law being broken.

[Gyaradoskiller]

Can we talk about Latinos and Arabs now?

[Raviel the Phantom]

Can we talk about Latinos and Arabs now?

Well if you are from the United States, like myself, then this is a rather simple issue. Latinos, as well as anyone coming into the country illegally is slight problem that seems to be more blown up by the media than anything else. The threat that they are taking "our jobs" is a flat out lie. This is especially true when legal citizens were given the chance to do the jobs illegals did. They did not do them. Now, is there a problem with those causing crime? Yes. I believe they should be immediately deported the moment they are arrested in that sense. Otherwise give those here illegally a chance to become citizens.

Now for Arabs, or more accurately, Saudi Arabians, there is nothing wrong with them. One of my closest friends in college was from Saudi Arabia, and I am glad I got to know him. I was able to learn much about his culture. Simply put, only the extremists are the problem. Just like with anything like religion or political views, extremists are and always will be a plague on humanity.

[Gyaradoskiller]

Well that was a great summary of all those situations.

Any (big) issues going on lately, maybe pertaining to Halloween?

Edited October 31, 2014 by Gyaradoskiller

[The Fush]

Well that was a great summary of all those situations.

Any (big) issues going on lately, maybe pertaining to Halloween?

America is confirmed to be not spoopy enough for the world

[Maelstrom]

Can we talk about Latinos and Arabs now?

You can have half.

http://www.thewrap.com/the-daily-show-has-white-people-explain-why-latinos-are-so-damn-terrifying-video/

[Chase]

It's official. The Republican Party is now set to wage war with Obama branch-on-branch. The GOP, following Joni Ernst's claiming of the Senate seat for the state of Iowa, now has the majority in the Senate. Republican House reps are projected to remain the majority in the House as well.

We either have ourselves an ideally middle ground government, or a divided government with no real stranglehold to lean back on. President Obama will serve his final two years in office either battling or working together with a Republican legislative branch.

I -hope- this does the country more good than harm. We know from the dvided house situation (Democratic majority in Senate, Republican House) that the Legislative branch was at war with itself for the majority of Obama's tenure, and we know that Republicans have been only fractionally able to check the President as far as checks and balances are concerned.

I don't want to see conflicted government, but I feel the Republican L-Branch will keep things on-kilter, rather than gridlock as we've seen in the past.

I will go ahead and admit it. I voted for ® Greg Abbott over (D) Wendy Davis for Texas, largely because I feel Davis is much too liberal and that Abbott isn't as conservative in kind. I also have a strong dislike for her pro-choice views and her actions in the state legislative branch involving said views, with Abortion being an issue I find more important than the country itself. (Sue me.)

[CURIE]

Remember back in 2012 when everyone was like "Republican Party is gone forever"? Lol fun times. I don't see how anyone could've believed that, since history has shown that the political scene has always been a cycle. One party comes to power for a whole, then another party comes to power for a while, then the first party comes back to power for a while, etc.

[Deleted User]

I used to be one of those people who say 'OH YOU HAVE TO VOTE, IT'S YOUR OBLIGATION TO DO SO'. But then I started looking at it like this. Voting, is choosing who gets to decide many facets of my life for me, I'm not going to choose to be put on a leash and controlled. Republicans? Democrats? Just labels, they both want to force you to live your lives in certain ways and believe they know what's better for you than you do. I want to be free to make my own decisions in life, to do as I please with what I possess. Just because YOU think something is bad, doesn't mean you should ban other people from doing it. You think guns are bad? Don't own guns. You think abortion is bad? Don't have an abortion. You think drugs are bad? Don't do drugs... etc. As much as I think drugs and abortion are terrible things, who am I to tell someone else that they are not allowed to have them? I would even promote reasons as to why people shouldn't have abortions, but trying to make it law is not the right answer.

As for the current political layout, I think it will now be perfect. As much as gridlock is publicly demonized by the media, it's not all that bad. It allows the private sector to continue to develop accordingly without new, often times ridiculous, regulations. It severely reduces the Government's ability to create new ways to control us.

On a separate note, the Grand OLD party, has to adapt to the newly developing social norms if they want to really take back the presidency. There's a far greater turn out in the presidential election and much of the vote of the younger generation depends on it. They don't have to completely be social liberal, but at least find some middle ground, if they hope to win the vote.