Jump to content

We need to implement evasion clause in Ladder!


Kamina

Recommended Posts

Pokemon is most fun when it involves more skill and less hax as possible. Evasion is the epitome of hax in that the user relies on misses to win the game.

Now i know what most of you conservative reborners are thinking

" We have had this since the beginning and it is what separates us from other servers"

Just because you have been using the same clauses from the start does not mean that they are without flaw. Also the argument that we will be going down a slippery slope if we implement evasion into ladder is absurd. Evasion has absolutely nothing to do with swift swim or exadrills for that matter so we will still remain distant from other servers.

Now that i have countered your main talking points, I would like to have a nice discussion about evasion below.

P.S. Might add some of my frustrated logs with crep in the distant future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my starter was typhlosion so i was usually able to one shot all of his pokemon. Also i do understand that hax is part of the game but is not -what most people would agree- enjoyable at all. all i am trying to do is reduce the amount of hax in this server to make laddering more enjoyable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, this is kind of a shaky topic, it seems. As it stands, there's no way evasion clause is going to be implemented on the ladder, mainly because no such clause exists, but for other reasons as well. So...the meta is not going to change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, competitive play is about the joy you get after winning. Hence the competition. To want to make it more "enjoyable" by removing a piece of it takes away from the win, and the experience as a whole. I'd rather know I won against a +6 evasion sand veil Gligar, then sweeping a team because every attack hit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what evasion does to people. :[

Battle between embrace the hax! and crep started!

Tier: OverUsed

Mode: Singles

Variation: +50, -30

Rule: Rated

Rule: Sleep Clause

Rule: Freeze Clause

Rule: Species Clause

embrace the hax! sent out Ninjask!

crep sent out Zapdos!

The foe's Zapdos is exerting its Pressure!

[AO]Kamina is watching the battle.

「AS」Leader Apollo is watching the battle.

「AS」Leader Apollo: hmm

Start of turn 1

Ninjask used Substitute!

Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Zapdos used Agility!

The foe's Zapdos's Speed sharply rose!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 2

Ninjask used Toxic!

The attack of Ninjask missed!

The foe's Zapdos used Roar!

Smeargle was dragged out!

Smeargle's Moody sharply raises its Evasion!

Smeargle's Moody lowers its Sp. Def.!

Start of turn 3

The foe's Zapdos used Baton Pass!

crep called Zapdos back!

crep sent out Espeon!

Smeargle used Spore!

Smeargle's Spore was bounced back by Magic Mirror!

Smeargle fell asleep!

Smeargle's Moody sharply raises its Attack!

Smeargle's Moody lowers its Defense!

[AO]Kamina: bp vs bp

Start of turn 4

embrace the hax! called Smeargle back!

embrace the hax! sent out Drifblim!

The foe's Espeon used Baton Pass!

crep called Espeon back!

crep sent out Drifblim!

Start of turn 5

The foe's Drifblim used Substitute!

The foe's Drifblim made a substitute!

Drifblim used Minimize!

Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6

The foe's Drifblim used Minimize!

The foe's Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

Drifblim used Minimize!

Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7

The foe's Drifblim used Minimize!

The foe's Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

Drifblim used Minimize!

Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8

The foe's Drifblim used Minimize!

The foe's Drifblim's Evasion sharply rose!

Drifblim used Substitute!

Drifblim made a substitute!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9

The foe's Drifblim used Baton Pass!

crep called Drifblim back!

crep sent out Mew!

Drifblim used Amnesia!

Drifblim's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10

The foe's Mew used Amnesia!

The foe's Mew's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Drifblim used Amnesia!

Drifblim's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 11

The foe's Mew used Amnesia!

The foe's Mew's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Drifblim used Amnesia!

Drifblim's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 12

The foe's Mew used Barrier!

The foe's Mew's Defense sharply rose!

Drifblim used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Drifblim back!

embrace the hax! sent out Scizor!

「AS」Leader Apollo: gg

Start of turn 13

The foe's Mew used Baton Pass!

crep called Mew back!

crep sent out Smeargle!

Scizor used Iron Defense!

Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 14

The foe's Smeargle used Ingrain!

The foe's Smeargle planted its roots!

Scizor used Iron Defense!

Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 15

The foe's Smeargle used Baton Pass!

crep called Smeargle back!

crep sent out Zapdos!

Scizor used Iron Defense!

Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 16

Scizor used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Scizor back!

embrace the hax! sent out Espeon!

The foe's Zapdos used Roar!

The attack of the foe's Zapdos missed!

Start of turn 17

The foe's Zapdos used Agility!

The foe's Zapdos's Speed sharply rose!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 18

The foe's Zapdos used Agility!

The foe's Zapdos's Speed sharply rose!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 19

The foe's Zapdos used Baton Pass!

crep called Zapdos back!

crep sent out Mew!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 20

The foe's Mew used Amnesia!

The foe's Mew's Sp. Def. sharply rose!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 21

The foe's Mew used Barrier!

The foe's Mew's Defense sharply rose!

Espeon used Stored Power!

The attack of Espeon missed!

Start of turn 22

The foe's Mew used Baton Pass!

crep called Mew back!

crep sent out Mr. Mime!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 23

The foe's Mr. Mime used Nasty Plot!

The foe's Mr. Mime's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Espeon used Calm Mind!

Espeon's Sp. Att. rose!

Start of turn 24

The foe's Mr. Mime used Nasty Plot!

The foe's Mr. Mime's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Espeon used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Espeon back!

embrace the hax! sent out Ninjask!

Start of turn 25

The foe's Mr. Mime used Baton Pass!

crep called Mr. Mime back!

crep sent out Drifblim!

Ninjask used Toxic!

The attack of Ninjask missed!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 26

Ninjask used Protect!

Ninjask protected itself!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask protected itself!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 27

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask's substitute took the damage!

Ninjask used Toxic!

The foe's Drifblim's substitute blocked Toxic!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 28

Ninjask used Protect!

Ninjask protected itself!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask protected itself!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 29

Ninjask used Toxic!

The attack of Ninjask missed!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask's substitute took the damage!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

embrace the hax!: WHY ARE HIS ATTACKS HITTING

embrace the hax!: this is

embrace the hax!: not supposed to happen

embrace the hax!: :[

Start of turn 30

Ninjask used Protect!

Ninjask protected itself!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask protected itself!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 31

Ninjask used Toxic!

The attack of Ninjask missed!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

A critical hit!

Ninjask's substitute faded!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Start of turn 32

Ninjask used Substitute!

Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Ninjask's substitute took the damage!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!

Start of turn 33

Ninjask used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Ninjask back!

embrace the hax! sent out Espeon!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Espeon's substitute took the damage!

Start of turn 34

Espeon used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Espeon back!

embrace the hax! sent out Mr. Mime!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Mr. Mime's substitute faded!

Start of turn 35

Mr. Mime used Substitute!

Mr. Mime made a substitute!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Mr. Mime's substitute took the damage!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 36

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

The attack of Mr. Mime missed!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Mr. Mime's substitute took the damage!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 37

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

It's super effective!

The foe's Drifblim's substitute faded!

The foe's Drifblim used Baton Pass!

crep called Drifblim back!

crep sent out Mr. Mime!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 38

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

The attack of Mr. Mime missed!

The foe's Mr. Mime used Nasty Plot!

The foe's Mr. Mime's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 39

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

The attack of Mr. Mime missed!

The foe's Mr. Mime used Baton Pass!

crep called Mr. Mime back!

crep sent out Drifblim!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 40

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

It's super effective!

The foe's Drifblim lost 35% of its health!

「AS」Leader Apollo: :o

The foe's Drifblim used Substitute!

The foe's Drifblim made a substitute!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

The foe's Drifblim absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 41

Mr. Mime used Thunderbolt!

The attack of Mr. Mime missed!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Mr. Mime's substitute faded!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

The foe's Drifblim absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 42

Mr. Mime used Substitute!

Mr. Mime made a substitute!

The foe's Drifblim used Clear Smog!

Mr. Mime's substitute took the damage!

Mr. Mime restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

The foe's Drifblim absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 43

Mr. Mime used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Mr. Mime back!

embrace the hax! sent out Scizor!

The foe's Drifblim used Baton Pass!

crep called Drifblim back!

crep sent out Zapdos!

Start of turn 44

Scizor used Baton Pass!

embrace the hax! called Scizor back!

embrace the hax! sent out Espeon!

The foe's Zapdos used Roar!

The attack of the foe's Zapdos missed!

Start of turn 45

Espeon used Stored Power!

A critical hit!

The foe's Zapdos's substitute faded!

The foe's Zapdos used Baton Pass!

crep called Zapdos back!

crep sent out Drifblim!

The foe's Drifblim restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

The foe's Drifblim absorbed nutrients with its roots!

Start of turn 46

Espeon used Stored Power!

The foe's Drifblim lost 88% of its health!

The foe's Drifblim fainted!

crep forfeited against embrace the hax!!

The window was disabled due to one of the players closing the battle window.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because by the time I've sent my phazer in he will already be at +2, and then on the turn of the roar/whirlwind/d-tail, etc he will be able to get another one (+4), and from there it's just going to miss practically every time.

Edit: Also, following your logic, I will need to carry a phazer on every single one of my teams in order to "beat" evasion, which can severely limit your teambuilding if you want to go for a more offensive route.

Edited by Rupe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest, competitive play is about the joy you get after winning. Hence the competition. To want to make it more "enjoyable" by removing a piece of it takes away from the win, and the experience as a whole. I'd rather know I won against a +6 evasion sand veil Gligar, then sweeping a team because every attack hit.

You seem to be turning a blind eye to the people that lose from such strategies. Tell me candidly if you would really prefer to lose to someone because you kept missing their pokemon or to someone else who beat you without any hax. Also there is not skill at all if you keep spamming minimize or double team and the opponent is unable to hit the pokemon or more importantly to phaze it. There are really only two moves which counter this and that is haze and parish song and parish song is negated by baton pass teams which usually abuse evasion clause in the first place. Forcing all teams to carry haze or forcing them to win by luck is ludacris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont care about this issue. I've had a habit of putting moves with 100% Acc, Such as Aura Sphere, Aerial Ace, Thunder in Rain etc. The again, a lot of people dont care about those moves so lol.

Aura sphere is learned only by lucario and togakiss and aerial ace base power is laughable. Thunder and Hurricane in the rain and Blizzard in the snow can also counter evasion but why must they be the only options to counter it. also in lower leagues where there is no aurasphere or perma rain, how to you expect to counter?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lucario and Togekiss eh...?

...

Wrong. One other Pokemon gets it that isnt uber. I think. Could be more, but there is most certainly one more.

Check that, make it two. Want a hint? One is a Fighting type, and one is on my favorite sun team

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How on earth can you adapt to a +6 evasion? I don't even understand how magical leaf or swift is going to help you out of that.

The best thing to do is not let it happen in the first place. Adapt and conquer. It's the same guy every time, right? I learned that Weavile and Scrafty counter every Minimize user going save Muk and Qwilfish, who never show up in OU anyway save Monotype teams.

In the spoiler below is the list of Pokemon that are capable of using Minimize:

  • Clefairy
  • Clefable
  • Grimer
  • Muk
  • Chansey (Whoever puts Minimize on Chansey...is an ass.)
  • Blissey
  • Staryu
  • Starmie
  • Qwilfish
  • Drifloon
  • Drifblim (usual perpretrator)
  • Litwick
  • Lampent
  • Chandelure

NOTE: On a side note, Weavile counters that guy's entire team.

Edited by rc52
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aura sphere is learned only by lucario and togakiss

Mew, Mienshao, and Raikou can also learn Aura Sphere, with special attack stats of 100, 95, and 115 respectively. Raikou, though, can't have both it and Volt Absorb.

Edited by rc52
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mianshoo is a physical attacker and raikou almost always carries volt absorb. But really that is all beside the point. What I am tring to get across is that evasion has little to no counters and abusing it takes no skill. I have told this many times already but most teams that abuse evasion also utilize baton pass and unless you have haze or rain with thunder/hurricane you will have to rely on luck to counter or other low base perfect accuracy moves which would never benefit you team unless you played against someone who abuses evasion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it takes no skill, then it should take relatively low skill to beat it. It's like the stall battles of Gen II. Yes it didn't take skills to do it, but it didn't take much skill to beat it. Once you figure out how to deal with evasion, it will never be a problem again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry Kamina, but:

1: As said before, there's no evasion clause on the current PO.

2: Complaining about evasion being to do with luck is basically bashing on crits, added effects (e.g bite's flinch), the list goes on. Plus, evasion, being an "epitome" of luck, bakafires on itself because if YOU use it, there's a chance you're gonna blow it too. The person setting up evasion might be the one in anger over "luck" in the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...