Stuff about Amaria

[Zander]

This contains all kinds of spoilers

 

Story Lore

 

After Titania I battled Amaria. I had chosen the Zekrom route. When I went into Amaria's gym I found it simply beautiful. Pretty unpopular opinion but yeah I did not mind the puzzle at all. The calming music plus excellent scenery has me sold. Now Amaria herself was very docile. She knew what her situation was, her relationship with Titania and everything else. She was still suicidal but she didn't want to kill herself on her own which is a definite improvement. That is the character that I prefer for her. After the gym battle Titania decides to stay with her and support her despite saying that it is her hell.

 

Then there's the Reshiram route. Amaria is the complete opposite. She tries to drown you, and is completely crazy. Also refuses to listen to your request of battle type and does the complete opposite. This Amaria seems really whiny and everyone probably hates her. Before the gym battle itself Titania leaves Amaria because she is tired with her and decides that Amaria finally crossed the line by trying to kill your character.

 

I think that people are looking at this the wrong way. Amaria relies heavily on Titania. She truly loves her. In the Zekrom route she is very docile because you talk to her after Titania has already spoken to her. In the Reshiram route you talk to her before Titania even arrives at the house. Amaria's mental stability really depends on Titania's existence. Even if their relationship goes bad, just being there makes Amaria happy. So I don't think she's a whiny person but all she wanted was some love. I would love for her past to actually be revealed so that we can understand why she behaves this way. I also don't understand what Zekrom or Reshiram have to do with any of this. There is nothing about truth and ideals that is being shown here. It's simply Amaria's personality to act like that.

 

Now for the route selection. I think that is pure bs. The route splitting was a horrible choice. I get that Amaria's character is trying to be shown and expanded upon maybe too much, almost like she's the main character instead even though we are just spectators  but it could have definitely been shown differently. Maybe two different scenes, one with Titania and one without just to show how Amaria acts in different situations. That would definitely speak more clearly about her character. A random Taka battle should really not decide how such an important character like Amaria acts. Taka went as fast as he came(at least in the Reshiram route) and his character doesn't have depth at all. He seems to just complain about stuff instead of trying to find a way out while Amaria probably has some kind of past trauma which affects her. So the two characters should not have been interrelated like this. 

 

Gym Battle

 

That gym battle was super tough. Her field is so broken that it makes Titania seem tame. On her field this is what you have to remember:-

1) All water type attacks are doubled

2) Dive and Fly change the field

3) Above water no ground type moves like earthquake work and electric type attacks do more damage

4) Under water all damage from physical attacks are almost halved and electric moves do double damage

5) All water type pokemon have their speed doubled

 

Now you will not understand how frustrating the 5th point is until you face off against Ludicolo that somehow outspeeds a freaking Noivern above water! On top of that her seeds do some insane stuff like sharply boost sp def over water or speed underwater along with a free aqua ring. Had to change my movests so much and had to give Noivern and Nidoking a focus sash just so i could survive attacks. That rotom was annoying too which is why I needed Ndoking with focus sash brick break to remove screens after I fainted rotom. Magnezone took out Rotom at the start with a nice crit(even after 5 resets Magnezone was always finishing rotom with a crit so maybe it just hates rotom that much). Greninja managed Swampert with grass knot. Noivern was using hurricane against Ludicolo after sash(had to reset like 50 times because hurricane kept on missing). Granbull okoed Kingra with play rough after surviving scald. Wishiwashi was taken out with Magnezone after using other pokemon as fodder for healing. The Lapras was just stupid. It kept on ice sharding my Greninja when I thought it would use dive so i basically revived 3 members before deciding that it was time to kill it. Overall bs battle and I did not like using brick break and changing my movesets but it had to be done.

 

 

And that was my overall thoughts about Amaria and her situations. Since you already read so much, you might as well say whether you agree with my points or not. Did I miss something of importance or maybe am I seeing this whole situation in a wrong way? I would really like to know. Thanks for reading!

[SolTheHoeQween]

I watched shofu's playthrough a while back and was surprised that there was a different route for Amaria! I myself got the Zekrom one, I thought the puzzle was the most annoying thing the game had to put me through, personally i would've liked more story instead of focusing on making the puzzles so goddamn strenuous lol. Imo Amaria's personality is quite a bit forced, I don't know why she's so important that she gets all this "screen time"but I guess we'll see, like, in 2018 when E18 comes out Kappa.

The battle itself wasn't that challenging for me, I just had Electric field on my magnezone with analyze and a focus sash, set the terrain first turn, so that I would override hers, then revenge kill with discharge, and i swept from there with the rest of my team, it seems to be the easy way out in most of Reborn gyms, just change the field, in my new playthrough I have a Gardevoir with Misty terrain and I do the same strat every time! c:

Edited January 10, 2018 by SolTheHoeQween

[Alistair]

I agree with most of what you said about Amaria and the events surrounding her. I wouldn't judge the story split so harshly though, I kinda like the fact that past choices have real consequences. I do agree however that Amy's fate being decided by an earlier interaction with Taka, of all people, feels a tad odd. But I guess it's meant to showcase a tragic instance of butterfly effect.

I love how E17 made Amy a quite fascinating character, and I liked the battles against both her and Tania. I personally struggled a lot more with Tania than with Amy, but it depends on your team's line-up. Both can be difficult to beat if you don't have the right tool for the right situation (which is true for the majority of leaders in the game after all).

[Zander]

Yeah the Amaria screen time really confuses me too. Seems like she'll be important somehow. 

Changing the field sounds like a  really cool idea but I don't like to do that. The reason is that reborn leaders specialize in types boosted by fields. So it enhances the difficult and makes it different from regular pokemon games. Just changing it back ruins their strategy though I would definitely change a field if I really need to win and nothing else works. 

[SolTheHoeQween]

I also had a harder time with Titania than Amaria, even with changing the field it was more challenging, but then again it depends on your team like you said, but yea I guess deciding the two paths of the interactions with Taka can be taken both ways I guess, overall I don't mind Amy's character at all, I just want to know more of her backstory, in the school in the Onix Ward you can find titania's amaria's julia's and flobot's diaries which give a bit of info but not nearly enough.

[SolTheHoeQween]

@zander

I mean changing the field doesn't make it too easy, it lasts for like 5 turns and by that time your terrain setter is already dead.

[Walpurgis]

11 minutes ago, Zander said:

Now you will not understand how frustrating the 5th point is until you face off against Ludicolo that somehow outspeeds a freaking Noivern above water! Keep in mind that Noivern is a flying type meaning that it should not even be affected by water and it's speed it still halved because that's just how the game is.

Noivern's speed is not halved, is Ludicolo's speed that is doubled: swift swim ability is activated by the field.

 

And no matter what trauma Amaria has, I find her actions unjustifiable. She has Titania trapped in a relationship that is killing her slowly and that keeps her from being happy and complete in any aspect of her life, making one of the few people who truly care about her suffer and waste her life because she can't say no to her, to the point of trying to commit suicide in a moment that surely would make Titania feel guilty the rest of her life. And on top of that: Amaria already knew. She already knew and read the diary just looking for an excuse to end her life, even if that would mean that Titania would have to carry the burden. She shamelessly burdens Titania with all of her problems and insecurities, keeping her trapped and always next to her knowing that she is not happy. I don't think that can be called love.

[SolTheHoeQween]

@walpurgisI mean when someone's dealing with mental illnesses like Amy, all this obvious common sense isn't so common sense to her, she's deep underwater and she can't see the consequences of her actions, she's too busy with her inner demons, but ye I agree, Titania's suffering a whole lot because of her.

[Dragoknight]

Well that's quite the analysis!

TBH I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the whole ordeal. As you said the gym was simply stunning, the underwater parts were cool and the music was soothing (and I'm fairly certain it's the Mirage Tower music just slowed down). I went with the Reshiram route and I must say that going through Amaria's gym was quite the experience. I'd say that the event was quite tragic and emotional. I can't say I dislike her (maybe I'm just a sucker for sad stories) as I can sympathize with her, but her emotional outbreak does seem a bit overboard and comes off as rather forced. Overall, I feel a mix of pity and disappointment for Amaria. Kinda let down actually.

 

As for the split paths, I somewhat find it rather fitting (not that I like it per say). I just find it fitting for Taka's situation. The aspect of Reshiram representing truth (Taka actively aiding the player character and going against Team Meteor) and Zekrom representing virtues (Taka staying with Team Meteor despite being against his true intentions but holding to the virtue that he should help the player character). And although his character did come and go rather quickly, I still think the choice to battle him or not was rather significant given his past interactions with the characters.

 

As for the gym battle, Dive. Blizzard. Win.

[Walpurgis]

9 minutes ago, SolTheHoeQween said:

@walpurgisI mean when someone's dealing with mental illnesses like Amy, all this obvious common sense isn't so common sense to her, she's deep underwater and she can't see the consequences of her actions, she's too busy with her inner demons, but ye I agree, Titania's suffering a whole lot because of her.

What are her demons, though? She states herself that she has everything that anyone could wish, so I don't think she has any kind of trauma strong enough to make her that blind. Sure that different people are affected in different ways by the same things and all that stuff, but in the end, I don't think she can be excused. 

[SolTheHoeQween]

1 minute ago, walpurgis said:

What her demons are, though? She states herself that she has everything that anyone could wish, so I don't think she has any kind of trauma strong enough to make her that blind. Sure that different people are affected in different ways by the same things and all that stuff, but in the end, I don't think she can be excused. 

Well mental illness is irrational more times than not, it doesn't have to be a strong trauma, maybe a chemical imbalance can make her be down and suicidal, like in real life. And if it was a trauma that set her on this path of self destruction, I'm waiting on E18 so that we can have a look into her past.

[Walpurgis]

1 minute ago, SolTheHoeQween said:

Well mental illness is irrational more times than not, it doesn't have to be a strong trauma, maybe a chemical imbalance can make her be down and suicidal, like in real life. And if it was a trauma that set her on this path of self destruction, I'm waiting on E18 so that we can have a look into her past.

Yeah, I hope she gets some character development. She was actually one of my favorite characters.

[Dragoknight]

@walpurgis I don't feel that's the right way to look at it. Amaria states that when everyone else left, Titania was there. Loneliness is one hell of a curse. It doesn't justify her actions, but at the same time, I can't really blame her for what she does.

 

Quote

Yeah, I hope she gets some character development. She was actually one of my favorite characters.

Yeah, while Titania's my favourite character, I do really like Amaria and I hope we do get more of her (and hopefully a happy ending to their story).

Edited January 10, 2018 by Dragoknight

[Azeria]

Taka is meant to parallel Titania, not Amaria. Both are in situations where they can't get out due to their loved ones: Taka his father, Titania; Amaria. This is especially clear in the two paths; where Taka's death and the results of his actions; eg splitting from Meteor subsequently resulted in him dying and Titania being put through quite a lot of shock; as seen by her telling you to go to Amaria first. This as you said has a big effect on Amaria as not only does Titania not have her conversation with Amy, but Amaria also sees you with the Sapphire Bracelets; something Titania gave to Amaria. Amaria trying to kill you is the final nail in the coffin and Titania calls it quits, much like refusing to fight Taka was the final nail in the coffin for him in regards to his meteor membership.

 

Personally I don't like everything after Titania in E17. It honestly feels somewhat rushed for such an impactful moment(in Reshiram at least.) I wish it got more time, or if the story splits had you fighting either Titania or Amaria and had each side focus on one or the other.

 

I've ranted enough about the fight vs her, super disappointing coming off of the superb fight vs Titania. 6-0'd her pretty brutally with Excadrill.

[Alistair]

@walpurgis While Amy's relationship with Tania is every bit as toxic as you describe, I don't think Tania is the only one trapped here. Amy is too.

As you said, she knows how much of a burden she is to Tania. She always has. Because of this, she's in a situation where being alive hurts Tania, and dying hurts Tania. She's made painfully aware that she's toxic no matter what, which fuels her self-hate more and more, and only makes her depression, her instability and her inner violence worse.

Also remember that all of this didn't happen over mere days. She's been with Tania for months, maybe even years (they both graduated from the OTS 2 years before the events of the game iirc). This kind of situation is a downward spiral; slowly rotting over time and worsening whatever mental illnesses were initially there.

Amy's actions can't really be excused, I agree with you on that, but sometimes, when what you see within you and around you is nothing but pain, it can be easy to be self-destructive. Dangerous to yourself, and to others. Amy's attempt at killing the MC on the Reshiram route is the culmination of years of mental self-abuse. I pity her, more than I am mad at her. When she started going downhill, she should have received professional help, instead of Tania's misguided compassion. In a sense, Tania's decision to put her own needs aside to take care of Amy was the trigger that trapped them both.

So it's not as simple as if it were only one of them hurting the other.

Amy and Tania are such fascinating characters tbh. I like talking about them, and I really hope they're going to be ok eventually especially Amy cuz I may have a soft spot for her.

[Dragoknight]

34 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Amy and Tania are such fascinating characters tbh. I like talking about them, and I really hope they're going to be ok eventually especially Amy cuz I may have a soft spot for her.

Yeah, I love the whole Amy x Tania dynamic the two have. The two of them are great characters and I think I relate to how Amy feels too much right now. Please Ame, make things better in E18! I need closure!

[Waynolt]

It is possible that Amaria has major depression (with episodes of psychotic depression), in which case she needs help.
Titania's presence might help by being her anchor, but she also needs medication to uphold the chemical balance of her brain.
Sigmund might be able to help, both because he is an actual psychiatrist and because this illness is one of the few where the electroconvulsive therapy he's so fond of might actually be helpful.

About her battle: she is very strong on her field but also very weak to field variations.
Freezing the field helps, and poisoning it makes the battle much easier (to the point that her team almost suicides by diving).

[Alistair]

8 minutes ago, Waynolt said:

Sigmund might be able to help, both because he is an actual psychiatrist and because this illness is one of the few where the electroconvulsive therapy he's so fond of might actually be helpful.

inb4 Sig redeems himself in E18 and helps Amy

make it real Ame

[Chase]

Wait wait wait. Amy tries the kill the player and THATS what people don't like about her. 

 

 

Amaria is cool my dudes. Main Character needs to stay 50 feet away from diaries that don't belong to them. (Ok- but blame the game. Not Amy.)

 

My issue with the relationship rests squarely on Titania anyway. She's too smart to keep getting into the traps that she does - and everything else about Tania is "yup" city too. 

 

Honesty is ALWAYS better. If Tania didn't lie in the first place - Amy wouldn't have such an attachment built up. If it's a clinical reason Amy loses it on you - that should be excused.

 

Why do I sound haughty about this? I've been pretty close to the situation Tania has been in. My closure for the two would not be as a couple unless Tania learns to actually mean it.

[Dragoknight]

@Waynolt @Alistair That would actually be really interesting. I never really felt like Sigmund was entirely bad (at least not like Sirius) and that would wind up to be a really cool turn of events.

[krim]

I went Reshiram route and ended up getting the single battle with her for my mono-flying run. Swoobat completely swept her up until Lapras, and then Hawlucha dealt with that. Field effect didn't really change anything for me, but that's usually how it goes with flying types.

 

As for the story: I agree, I feel like there should've been a bit more in between the gyms. It felt a little rushed, but I don't think it heavily impacted my opinion on the episode. 

[Enkhidu]

If I'm not mistaken there used to be a short preview of Reborn that talked about the four girls that, at least at the beginning of the game, had the four keys: Heather; Ruby, Anna; Amethyst, Amaria; Sapphire and Luna; Emerald. Of course, they weren't referred by their names but the preview gave you a brief description of this four girls, making it easier to identify each of them. Since the beginning, they were meant to be important characters, so I can't agree with a comment that says that Amaria is receiving "too much screen time", and even if you didn't know this fact (because I admit that is really old one and not really known) it's not like she has received thaaat much more screen time than other characters. Let's not count the rivals for obvious reasons. The Circus Trio; we had to battle the three of them, so we were forced to return many times to the circus and, thanks to that, we interacted a lot with them for at least three episodes. Radomus, Luna, and Elias; two episodes were completely related to their family problems.

 

Even if Amaria appeared a lot of times before her gym battle, everything had a purpose. When we met her, she told us to go with her to help clean the mess at the park, then, after we proved our worth, she asked us to help her stop the factory that was polluting the water and gave us the keys to her boat, even though she knew that it would mess it up (and it makes more sense for the water gym leader to have a boat more than anyone else). Later, we have to find Hardy and he is in her house after Titania found him, and we are also offered the TMX (surf) that we needed if we defeat Samson (again, it makes sense for the water gym leader to have it). And then everything goes down the drain when we return~ quite literally. We discovered why the water was not getting cleaned and we have an epic battle against meteor in Amaria's house. And yada yada yada we arrive at E17...

 

It's been quite common in Reborn to "hype" the leader that will be fought in the episode, so we are given a bit of content about them before fighting against said leader and I think that the content given in this episode was quite heavy, that's why this has been one of the most criticized episodes up to date.

 

To sum it up, I don't think that Amaria got screen time that wasn't needed for the plot, so that shouldn't be something to use against her/the episode. And if I'm not mistaken she was one of the most popular leaders in the online league so don't get surprised that she was one of the first important characters to appear.

 

1 hour ago, Alistair said:

@walpurgis While Amy's relationship with Tania is every bit as toxic as you describe, I don't think Tania is the only one trapped here. Amy is too.

As you said, she knows how much of a burden she is to Tania. She always has. Because of this, she's in a situation where being alive hurts Tania, and dying hurts Tania. She's made painfully aware that she's toxic no matter what, which fuels her self-hate more and more, and only makes her depression, her instability and her inner violence worse.

Also remember that all of this didn't happen over mere days. She's been with Tania for months, maybe even years (they both graduated from the OTS 2 years before the events of the game iirc). This kind of situation is a downward spiral; slowly rotting over time and worsening whatever mental illnesses were initially there.

Amy's actions can't really be excused, I agree with you on that, but sometimes, when what you see within you and around you is nothing but pain, it can be easy to be self-destructive. Dangerous to yourself, and to others. Amy's attempt at killing the MC on the Reshiram route is the culmination of years of mental self-abuse. I pity her, more than I am mad at her. When she started going downhill, she should have received professional help, instead of Tania's misguided compassion. In a sense, Tania's decision to put her own needs aside to take care of Amy was the trigger that trapped them both.

So it's not as simple as if it were only one of them hurting the other.

Amy and Tania are such fascinating characters tbh. I like talking about them, and I really hope they're going to be ok eventually especially Amy cuz I may have a soft spot for her.

You really saved me a lot of time, I completely agree with this and was thinking to write something deep regarding Amaria but I think that you covered the most important things so I won't have to make this post larger~

 

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So now that everything is said and done I would like to point out something else regarding Amaria and Titania. As some of you may know, there exists a character page for the reborn characters that was re-done during E15 development due to popular demand, and if you put your cursor on top of the characters you will see a phrase that they said during the game, this is true for all the characters... Except for Amaria and Titania. 

 

 

At that time I remember that I asked about this, I asked something along the lines of "what's up with these phrases? have they been said before?" and Ikaru said that they haven't and that they were for some time later (IIRC, this was like more than two years ago so don't judge me lol), so the possibility of them being added in past content is forfeit.

 

If I'm being honest, I was kind of looking forward to seeing them this episode, but it seems that I will have to wait a bit longer. So what are your thoughts about this? 

 

PD: If I sounded too harsh at the beginning and/or made some grammar mistake please excuse me, it's kind of late over here and I didn't want to wait until tomorrow to post this since I know that if I did, I would be too lazy to actually do it.

[Maqqy]

Amaria's gym really is beautiful (not as beautiful as Titania's though) and yes underrated mostly because everyone was dreading that puzzle. Yet I loved it especially with the song of the decade playing in the background. Finding her underwater was more of a pleasure than a hassle for me.

 

I think it represents the Zekrom (Ideal) and Reshiram (Truth) logic clearly in Amaria's case. Like you said, you prefer the actions Amaria does in the Zekrom route. I think that is what Amaria represents ideally. She is calm, collected and understanding in the Zekrom route and of course she is more likeable there. Now in the Reshiram route, her actions and personality are more psychopathic and murderous and I think sadly, that is what represents her truthfully. Let me put it more bluntly, you said that Amaria's actions depended on the conversation between her and Titania but I think that's not the case at all. The fact that that she even DID those actions spoke very much of her character (in the Reshiram route) regardless of her depression.  She tried to drown us and it might be due to mental illness, but it shows that she is CAPABLE of doing that. In other words, the truth is Amaria is not the person we thought of her ideally.

 

For the routes, obviously everyone's opinion of them is 50/50 and I think that depends on their sole viewpoint on how they interpret this turn of events. Bottomline, this episode is short. We got this very vague plotline with no plausible conclusion and that made us a little bit nuts. So I know in E18 or E19 we will have a clear answer for both of these paths. So we will just have to wait and see. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Maqqy

[keltena]

@Absolute Zero

Quote

 

So now that everything is said and done I would like to point out something else regarding Amaria and Titania. As some of you may know, there exists a character page for the reborn characters that was re-done during E15 development due to popular demand, and if you put your cursor on top of the characters you will see a phrase that they said during the game, this is true for all the characters... Except for Amaria and Titania. 

 

 

At that time I remember that I asked about this, I asked something along the lines of "what's up with these phrases? have they been said before?" and Ikaru said that they haven't and that they were for some time later (IIRC, this was like more than two years ago so don't judge me lol), so the possibility of them being added in past content is forfeit.

 

Wait, those haven't been used? That's a really weird thing to hear, because I clearly remember seeing them when I played; not in perfect detail, but enough that I recognized where they were from when I first saw them on the cast page.

 

From what I recall, the Amaria quote is something she says while fighting Team Meteor, I think while you're teamed up for the Blacksteam Factory? The context is basically her saying she's not about to lose/die there, because she has Titania waiting for her back home. The Titania one is said to the player character sometime pretty soon after you meet her—I think in Amaria's house when she's talking about the news report on Team Meteor's recent actions—and she's basically saying "I have this under control, don't go rushing in like a hero and make a mess of things".

 

I first played with the E14 release, and the script's gotten some pretty heavy edits between then and now, so I guess it's possible that what I'm remembering is from an outdated version and those quotes aren't actually anywhere in the game anymore...? But I'm positive I remember seeing them at some point.

[Zander]

Seems like my quote button doesn't even work on phone so I'll reply on pc in an hour or two