Stuff about Amaria

[seki108]

@Zander  This thread's quoting is now broken on my laptop too.  This has been an annoying problem for quite a while and a fix doesn't seem in site.

[FairFamily]

I took the zekrom route and haven't played the reshiram route yet. So yeah I think that it was a nice touch of character.

 

Combining that with the dairy debacle, I think that Ameria in a sense of self-destruction tries to push Titania to her limits. "How much can Titania take before she breaks and leaves me?" .

 

Yet at the same time (and this is what I think based on what I read here) she expects her to come back, hence why she became hostile when the mc arrives first. 

 

Now on the Titania issue, she knows the similarities between her and Taka. So when Taka dies, she was confronted with the reality of her path. Hence why she opted out.

 

Sorry if I got some things wrong but it took me one month to complete my first run. So I'm basing myself on what was said in this thread.

 

For the gym battle she was easy. Gastrodon walled everything but ludicolo so yeah and venusaur took care of that. It however doesn't have the damage output to get past aqua ring. So wishgwashi got a toxic from toxapex and lapras got pp stalled.

[BRS swag]

1 hour ago, FairFamily said:

I took the zekrom route and haven't played the reshiram route yet. So yeah I think that it was a nice touch of character.

 

Combining that with the dairy debacle, I think that Ameria in a sense of self-destruction tries to push Titania to her limits. "How much can Titania take before she breaks and leaves me?" .

 

Yet at the same time (and this is what I think based on what I read here) she expects her to come back, hence why she became hostile when the mc arrives first. 

 

Now on the Titania issue, she knows the similarities between her and Taka. So when Taka dies, she was confronted with the reality of her path. Hence why she opted out.

 

Sorry if I got some things wrong but it took me one month to complete my first run. So I'm basing myself on what was said in this thread.

 

For the gym battle she was easy. Gastrodon walled everything but ludicolo so yeah and venusaur took care of that. It however doesn't have the damage output to get past aqua ring. So wishgwashi got a toxic from toxapex and lapras got pp stalled.

Oh quote is working. Seems like I'm lucky. Okay, onward.

You are perfectly right about Titania. But Amaria also had the terrible problem of memory loss. Superpower'd from a tyranitar, lucky she aien't dead. She forgot all about us after that medical assistance from Taka and that's also one of the reasons why multiple paths were created for her in E17 based on your past decisions, affecting Titania's story part. What affects Tania, affects Amy too. They are in it like a perfect pair together. Sad that there wasn't an option to not get caught in their fiasco. therewouldbenostorycontenttho.............iloveAmy. Ame, don't do this to Amy.

Truth to say, it was totally the MC's problem here, going and reading the diary and not closing it quick enough, which led to this taurosshit here.

[Zander]

9 hours ago, walpurgis said:

Noivern's speed is not halved, is Ludicolo's speed that is doubled: swift swim ability is activated by the field.

 

And no matter what trauma Amaria has, I find her actions unjustifiable. She has Titania trapped in a relationship that is killing her slowly and that keeps her from being happy and complete in any aspect of her life, making one of the few people who truly care about her suffer and waste her life because she can't say no to her, to the point of trying to commit suicide in a moment that surely would make Titania feel guilty the rest of her life. And on top of that: Amaria already knew. She already knew and read the diary just looking for an excuse to end her life, even if that would mean that Titania would have to carry the burden. She shamelessly burdens Titania with all of her problems and insecurities, keeping her trapped and always next to her knowing that she is not happy. I don't think that can be called love.

Yeah, I guess water type pokemon having their speed doubled makes more sense. I probably just got confused with my greninja because of protean and stuff. Maybe swift swim further boosts the speed so who knows how fast that ludicolo is. Did not have a choice scarf to find out.

Alistair already explained why Amaria isn't at fault. I think that she has had some past trauma which completely changes her sense of morality. Kinda how someone might become a criminal or a serial killer because of their past. Something similar to that. 

9 hours ago, Azeria said:

Taka is meant to parallel Titania, not Amaria. Both are in situations where they can't get out due to their loved ones: Taka his father, Titania; Amaria. This is especially clear in the two paths; where Taka's death and the results of his actions; eg splitting from Meteor subsequently resulted in him dying and Titania being put through quite a lot of shock; as seen by her telling you to go to Amaria first. This as you said has a big effect on Amaria as not only does Titania not have her conversation with Amy, but Amaria also sees you with the Sapphire Bracelets; something Titania gave to Amaria. Amaria trying to kill you is the final nail in the coffin and Titania calls it quits, much like refusing to fight Taka was the final nail in the coffin for him in regards to his meteor membership.

 

Personally I don't like everything after Titania in E17. It honestly feels somewhat rushed for such an impactful moment(in Reshiram at least.) I wish it got more time, or if the story splits had you fighting either Titania or Amaria and had each side focus on one or the other.

 

I've ranted enough about the fight vs her, super disappointing coming off of the superb fight vs Titania. 6-0'd her pretty brutally with Excadrill.

Taka paralleling Titania makes sense I guess. I found it pretty confusing though. Taka affects Amaria because Titania gets influenced by him is a pretty roundabout concept to grasp. Definitely agree that the story needs more content than the rushed approach. 

How in the world did you defeat her with an Excadrill? All of her pokemon must have outsped it and it doesn't have that much of an attack to get okos on neutral hits either.

6 hours ago, Absolute Zero said:

If I'm not mistaken there used to be a short preview of Reborn that talked about the four girls that, at least at the beginning of the game, had the four keys: Heather; Ruby, Anna; Amethyst, Amaria; Sapphire and Luna; Emerald. Of course, they weren't referred by their names but the preview gave you a brief description of this four girls, making it easier to identify each of them. Since the beginning, they were meant to be important characters, so I can't agree with a comment that says that Amaria is receiving "too much screen time", and even if you didn't know this fact (because I admit that is really old one and not really known) it's not like she has received thaaat much more screen time than other characters. Let's not count the rivals for obvious reasons. The Circus Trio; we had to battle the three of them, so we were forced to return many times to the circus and, thanks to that, we interacted a lot with them for at least three episodes. Radomus, Luna, and Elias; two episodes were completely related to their family problems.

 

Even if Amaria appeared a lot of times before her gym battle, everything had a purpose. When we met her, she told us to go with her to help clean the mess at the park, then, after we proved our worth, she asked us to help her stop the factory that was polluting the water and gave us the keys to her boat, even though she knew that it would mess it up (and it makes more sense for the water gym leader to have a boat more than anyone else). Later, we have to find Hardy and he is in her house after Titania found him, and we are also offered the TMX (surf) that we needed if we defeat Samson (again, it makes sense for the water gym leader to have it). And then everything goes down the drain when we return~ quite literally. We discovered why the water was not getting cleaned and we have an epic battle against meteor in Amaria's house. And yada yada yada we arrive at E17...

 

It's been quite common in Reborn to "hype" the leader that will be fought in the episode, so we are given a bit of content about them before fighting against said leader and I think that the content given in this episode was quite heavy, that's why this has been one of the most criticized episodes up to date.

 

To sum it up, I don't think that Amaria got screen time that wasn't needed for the plot, so that shouldn't be something to use against her/the episode. And if I'm not mistaken she was one of the most popular leaders in the online league so don't get surprised that she was one of the first important characters to appear.

 

You really saved me a lot of time, I completely agree with this and was thinking to write something deep regarding Amaria but I think that you covered the most important things so I won't have to make this post larger~

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So now that everything is said and done I would like to point out something else regarding Amaria and Titania. As some of you may know, there exists a character page for the reborn characters that was re-done during E15 development due to popular demand, and if you put your cursor on top of the characters you will see a phrase that they said during the game, this is true for all the characters... Except for Amaria and Titania. 

 

 

At that time I remember that I asked about this, I asked something along the lines of "what's up with these phrases? have they been said before?" and Ikaru said that they haven't and that they were for some time later (IIRC, this was like more than two years ago so don't judge me lol), so the possibility of them being added in past content is forfeit.

 

If I'm being honest, I was kind of looking forward to seeing them this episode, but it seems that I will have to wait a bit longer. So what are your thoughts about this? 

 

PD: If I sounded too harsh at the beginning and/or made some grammar mistake please excuse me, it's kind of late over here and I didn't want to wait until tomorrow to post this since I know that if I did, I would be too lazy to actually do it.

Amaria is a main character granted but it's like she's putting up a solo show. Usually you would have characters cooperate with each other and integrate the story in the end. But maria seems to be on her own the entire time. It's like dealing with a completely different set of problems. On one hand there is team meteor, then there is Charlotte and the entire orphanage with their family problems but both of those are interrelated. Then there is Amaria who is basically halting the entire story because of her personal problems. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that when Amaria drowns you, Titania leaves her to fight team meteor thus adding more strength to the final team. So it's natural to see Amaria as a burden which is why i said that she was getting too much screen time.

 

The character page is really interesting. I think Amaria already says her dialogue at the earlier part of the game. Titania's I don't remember so maybe she will say it when she is busy defeating team meteor and our character shows up late or something. That is my speculation at least. And no you were not rude so don't worry.

5 hours ago, Maqqy said:

Amaria's gym really is beautiful (not as beautiful as Titania's though) and yes underrated mostly because everyone was dreading that puzzle. Yet I loved it especially with the song of the decade playing in the background. Finding her underwater was more of a pleasure than a hassle for me.

 

I think it represents the Zekrom (Ideal) and Reshiram (Truth) logic clearly in Amaria's case. Like you said, you prefer the actions Amaria does in the Zekrom route. I think that is what Amaria represents ideally. She is calm, collected and understanding in the Zekrom route and of course she is more likeable there. Now in the Reshiram route, her actions and personality are more psychopathic and murderous and I think sadly, that is what represents her truthfully. Let me put it more bluntly, you said that Amaria's actions depended on the conversation between her and Titania but I think that's not the case at all. The fact that that she even DID those actions spoke very much of her character (in the Reshiram route) regardless of her depression.  She tried to drown us and it might be due to mental illness, but it shows that she is CAPABLE of doing that. In other words, the truth is Amaria is not the person we thought of her ideally.

 

For the routes, obviously everyone's opinion of them is 50/50 and I think that depends on their sole viewpoint on how they interpret this turn of events. Bottomline, this episode is short. We got this very vague plotline with no plausible conclusion and that made us a little bit nuts. So I know in E18 or E19 we will have a clear answer for both of these paths. So we will just have to wait and see. 

Seems like I was not the only one who found the gym peaceful. You and Dragoknight both liked it too so that's a relief. It was fun going through it.

 

"The truth is Amaria is not the person we thought of ideally". Well that is an interesting way to put it but I think that it ultimately translates back into a personality problem. A split personality i would say, but it really depends on Titania's existence. She drowns you because she feels like Titania chose you over her which she can't accept. That is probably just another way of her trying to depend more on Titania but in a more violent and unexpected manner. I would be pretty disappointed if that was the explanation of the Zekrom and Reshiram routes.

 

Totally agree that we got a short episode. I guess more pokemon had to be added though and surf and sludge wave have better animations so i'm guessing that moves got re animated too. There had better be a proper explanation for all this in later episodes. Maybe a character explains it or maybe another diary tells us don't kill me so that players can understand and chose for themselves, which route would have been better. The wait shouldn't be long either so that's a relief.

 

 

Thanks for commenting guys. Seems like my points are mostly accepted so now all I can do is wait for the next episode. Hopefully the lore gets cleared up soon and I really want Lin to play a major role in it. Maybe we get to side with her too? Because I would totally go for it. Anyone who uses a Hydreigon to blast of mountains is definitely a friend to me.

[Lost Lore]

1 hour ago, BRS swag said:

Truth to say, it was totally the MC's problem here, going and reading the diary and not closing it quick enough, which led to this taurosshit here.

 

Except the player can also choose NOT to read the diary, in which case blaming them is rather silly. Then you can only blame Titania for making assumptions and flipping her shit over it. And actually leaving the damn thing open on the table in the first place when Amaria can come back at any moment. I don't think she thought that through.

 

As it were, though, Reshiram path is exactly what it says on the tin: the bitter truth about what lengths Amaria is willing to go to in order to continue her facade. She's been wearing a mask through the entire game- as evidenced by her diary in the Onyx Trainers School (straight up says she's wearing a false smile and that she's genuinely not happy on the inside) and by what she says if you say you don't trust her in Blacksteam Factory ("Right... Why would you, after all?"). Said mask just finally fractures with the whole fiasco with Titania's diary, and only goes downhill from there.

 

And honestly, I can't say it's that Amaria tries to drown the player that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth (though it certainly does not help her case). It's generally the fact that even though she straight up admits she knows Titania doesn't love her (which she does in both paths), she continues to smother her, despite her suffering. Claiming that's love of any sort is blatantly false, regardless of any mental health issues she has. (Ironically it's Titania that shows more love in this situation- albeit not a romantic sort- in staying with her despite the suffering so she won't kill herself. Though there are certainly better ways she could have handled this, so she's not entirely free of fault, either.)

 

Reshiram path is pretty preferable for me in this case, with both of them going their separate ways. What Amaria actually needs is to seek some professional help. And also probably be relieved that the player is a silent protagonist and can't really go to the police about her attempted murder.

[Walpurgis]

4 hours ago, keltena said:

@Absolute Zero

Wait, those haven't been used? That's a really weird thing to hear, because I clearly remember seeing them when I played; not in perfect detail, but enough that I recognized where they were from when I first saw them on the cast page.

 

From what I recall, the Amaria quote is something she says while fighting Team Meteor, I think while you're teamed up for the Blacksteam Factory? The context is basically her saying she's not about to lose/die there, because she has Titania waiting for her back home. The Titania one is said to the player character sometime pretty soon after you meet her—I think in Amaria's house when she's talking about the news report on Team Meteor's recent actions—and she's basically saying "I have this under control, don't go rushing in like a hero and make a mess of things".

 

I first played with the E14 release, and the script's gotten some pretty heavy edits between then and now, so I guess it's possible that what I'm remembering is from an outdated version and those quotes aren't actually anywhere in the game anymore...? But I'm positive I remember seeing them at some point.

I thought you were totally right about this, but I like to always check this kind of things, so I did and none of those two phrases are actually said. In Blackstream what Amaria says is "Tania is probably waiting for me, too... Ahaha ~", clearly along the lines, but the problem is that the rest of phrases (except for Titania's) are exactly as they are said in the game. And Titania doesn't even say something similar, what she says is more like the less involved you get, the best. In fact, the only piece of dialogue she has that resembles that phrase is when you met her in north aventurine woods. (now I'm intrigued because at this point of the story I don't see any of the two saying those phrases)

[keltena]

5 hours ago, walpurgis said:

I thought you were totally right about this, but I like to always check this kind of things, so I did and none of those two phrases are actually said. In Blackstream what Amaria says is "Tania is probably waiting for me, too... Ahaha ~", clearly along the lines, but the problem is that the rest of phrases (except for Titania's) are exactly as they are said in the game. And Titania doesn't even say something similar, what she says is more like the less involved you get, the best. In fact, the only piece of dialogue she has that resembles that phrase is when you met her in north aventurine woods. (now I'm intrigued because at this point of the story I don't see any of the two saying those phrases)

... Huh, you're right. I went back to check an old playthrough on YouTube, and it looks like they were never there at all. Wow is that a surreal feeling; I honestly thought I'd remembered them, but I guess my mind must have retroactively inserted them in places where I remembered similar lines. (And I think the Titania line in the Aventurine Woods is in fact the one I was thinking of, yeah.) Apologies for the confusion!

[Azeria]

@Zander

Used Sludge Wave with Cradily twice, turning things into Murkwater. Murkwater has all water moves gain additional Poison typing; meaning Exca is IMMUNE to water type moves now. Excadrill set up 3 Swords Dance and Sandstorm with an Air Balloon to avoid to speed dropping effect, and proceeded to one shot everything with Rock Slide or Brick Break. Kingdra was the only thing that could touch it but at that point, it was already too late.

[Zander]

1 hour ago, Azeria said:

@Zander

Used Sludge Wave with Cradily twice, turning things into Murkwater. Murkwater has all water moves gain additional Poison typing; meaning Exca is IMMUNE to water type moves now. Excadrill set up 3 Swords Dance and Sandstorm with an Air Balloon to avoid to speed dropping effect, and proceeded to one shot everything with Rock Slide or Brick Break. Kingdra was the only thing that could touch it but at that point, it was already too late.

Oh, that's a really nice strategy. I should have done the same with my Nidoking and Magnezone. It totally cripples her and then I could have tried charge beam stuff. You used the field really nicely so props to you.

[PESH1]

Regarding the gym battle in zekrom route, I chose doubles. I led with Roserade and Meowth. I used fake out with Meowth on Vaporeon so that it does not KO Roserade with Ice Beam, Seismitoad used Surf which knocks out Meowth and does little damage to Roserade. Roserade sets up Grassy Terrain. I send out Leavanny; both Roserade and Leavanny outspeed most of Amaria's team and with Giga Drain by Roserade and Leaf Blade by Leavanny I KO all her remaining mons before the terrain ended.

[Egzample]

@Zander and others: guys, we cannot use mental instability as an excuse for trying to drown someone. Same goes for Tit/Ama relation, we cannot say ''it's cool, she just have a depression or so'' - some people are just toxic, emotional vampires.

 

First of all, meddling Taka's and Amaria's stories in this way isn't working well. As I think of it now, it should be separated: battle or not Taka to get Zekrom/Reshiram paths, confront girls about the diary or not to get different Amaria/Titania stories. I don't know what happens next in Labradorra, so it is hard to say if this could or could not be implemented, it leaves us with 4 different paths. We can get this many options in Belrose House too, tough.

[Alaris]

Amaria is playing with Tania. I have behaved similarly in the past (and not past), much to my regret. She is very well aware that everything she does makes Titania feel more and more miserable. And a part of she does love that: Titania groveling to make her happy! It feels really good, having a person that pays full attention to you, no matter how radical or unstable you are. She thinks she knows Tania's weak spots, so she exploits them (especially, because Tania does love Amy, albeit not in a romantic way). The more effort Tania puts in coping with Amy's whims, the better she feels. But... on the other hand, there's another part of Amy's brain that really sees what's happening. She understands that Tania doesn't love her, and on top of that, Amy is just being deliberately overly-capricious and completely unjust to Tania. So then she hates herself.

 

So, what happens when a part of your brain feels extremely hyped when you do something but another part feels really bad? First, you blame yourself. And the more you do it, the worse it gets. Then you get very selfish and completely ignore the feelings of others. I mean --if I'm going to feel bad no matter what I do (because I will keep doing that thing because I feel awesome), why the need to treat others well? I'll feel bad anyway. Screw them. To the point that you don't care very much about everyone's lives except for the one of the person you love... (not even yours, of course). And... that's how it happens.

 

I don't know if Ame planned the situation with such a remarkable mastery of the psychologic nuances behind it, but my experience can perfectly fit that case. And that's why I love Reborn.

 

As for the battle: I froze the field and then struggled my way through it. I tried to poison it before, but her pokemon would still benefit too much from it. I kinda recall that Cinccino and bulled seed did most of the work.

[Chase]

And -that's- what I was waiting for. Confirmation that in both routes Amy is being DELIBERATE in the way she treats Tania.

 

That's not a good spot for either of them, and honestly, makes the relationship too abusive for both parties to support it existing in the romantic sense.

 

However - this does provide some good appreciation for how well this fiasco is written. Eventually they will have to commiserate or allow Reborn to strike one or both with tragedy. The best one can hope for is a clean break and a fresh start for both.

 

This might be a situation where my opinion changes as more info is known. Titania is a neat character with this relationship issue as a horribly unforgivable albatross - but she doesn't deserve to be haunted for it. Amaria is also a cool character and also does enough wrong to match.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right - but we don't know where the end is. That's compelling.

 

I just don't get where Taka fits with this so much - but hopefully that's reveal when I get there!

[Shia]

I definitely agree that choosing to battle Taka or not shouldn't have been intertwined with Amaria's story. Then again, Taka's story was intertwined with Titania's, though not completely directly. After all, Titania only started to break free from Amaria after she accidentally killed Taka. That at least is somehow plausible.

And why do I feel that Sigmund of all people would be able to do something about Amaria's condition? After all, Electric is super effective against Water.

[T.O.W.A.N.]

Smh, Amaria was easy. Here's what I did: 

 

1) Lead off with a florges holding an amplifield rock. Florges used grassy terrain. 

2) Switch into serperior. 

3) Spam leaf storm. 

4) Win 

 

Didn't even lose a single pokemon.

[Radon]

The Zekrom seems to imply that its the "Ideal" path.

 

While the Reshiram path seems to imply that its the "True" path. 

 

So its almost as though its saying that the Zekrom path is the path you wanna take, otherwise take the Reshiram path and experience the truth.

 

..Probably. 

[Borbland]

Amaria's relationship with Titania is in my opinion more destructive to herself than for Titania.

 

Amaria always feared that the love in the relationship was only one-sided and is probably one of the reason for her mental fragility. When her suspicions got confirmed, she got two equally as bad choices: Either she continued trying to kill herself to emotionally oblige Titania to stay with her, or to not do that and fear that Titania will find her stable enough to leave her. Even with the first choice she'll knows that Titania will not be able to support that relationship indefinitely and eventually leave her, making her even more fragile and desperate.

 

In the Zekrom path, she choose a new strategy to keep Titania, quite openly admitted that she would kill herself if Titania left her but will stop the suicide attempts while she stays with her. This is one step further in the perversion of the relationship between the two, but the best solution for Amaria's desperate logic to guarantee Titania's staying.

 

In the Reshiram path however, the ties between her and Titania have been cut with her trying to drown the main character and it is very likely she will try to end herself. However, if she manages to stay alive, freed from that relationship, she may in time recover since the depature of Titania is no longer the Damocles sword over her head, granted that she'll be helped by her friends while in her nihilistic and destructive phase.

[dragonsbeat]

So after i read all of this stuff and playing the game twice

I think That amaria got a wrong impression about Tania as i was playing she said something like she just stayed there to help her look after her what a friend does not a lover but with amaria's sickness ( a.k.a i think loneliness) she thought that tania loved her because Amy said that the reason she loved tania was because she stayed (i don't think that's enough)

but if we said that amy suffers from loliness then shelly is too because in the character page if you hover on her face it reads "i know this pain it feels. It's lonely" and shelly is not like amaria she's not crazy then what is teh reason of her sickness i think that she was bored of everything because in her diary she saids something like "why am i sad and stuff i have everything a girl dreams (did she say she's with tania here i can't remember)" but when we meet her the first and second time she's not like that why because she's with tania (or still pretending) so i think that tania gave amy a reason to live a new side of life and tania leaving would mean returning to that bored dead life and when she first found out that tania was lying she wanted to die why because she didn't want to return to that dead life

now about taka and tania

i think that the split was reasonable i'm not happy with the outcome (taka was a free pack of exp)

i got zekrom route because i needed exp for ciel but i replayed and got reshiram

so in the scene that you battle taka he asks you or tania to kick his ass but tania didn't want because he's living in a lie if he didn't want to be in meteor then leave. but what she said is litterally her life too tania is living in a lie and she don't want to be with amy but couldn't leave. so they are two faces of the same coin, and when you get reshiram she sees that taka took her advice, left team meteor and did the right choice even though he got killed,she gets shocked and if you think about it tania is actually weak she's strong act strong has an uber mon but she couldn't elave amy despite she wants to but she learns from taka

(i think that stuff i said above are just bull but...)

now i have a theory about Rini x Tania

yes for the people that played ep14 or 15 they might have an idea

i think that theer was a relation between rini and tania and maybe when rini started to see what's happening between tania and amy her heart broke and she started to only think with her mind no heart or emotin no hapinnes or sadnees no LOVE that's why she acts like a robot but tehre's still some human abd emotion part left in her we see that through the whole game specially in the ep15 battle against fern she remembers the love for her brother after he left she wants him back to prtect him then so i really hope that we get the background of the four popular girls (julia,rini,amy,tania) well we got the reason why julia loves booms

sorry for taking your time if you don't get i'm a bit dumb( by that i'm the dummest here)