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Hurt and Heal: Starter Pokemon Lines (Winner: Piplup with 18(!) points)


Jess

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@Dragoknight I have seen your previous disdain for Chesnaught, and that's one factor I made the list. It's great for setting spikes, leech seed and even recover with Drain Punch. Sometimes you see Synthesis with Spikey Shield, and a few times you come across the belly drum set. Certainly the typing is a double-edged sword; great against certain threats, weak against others, while Tangy and Ferro are consistently good against most threats, but that main problem is up for the rest of the team to alleviate. I'm not really sure how well all of them fare in the recent gen7 ultra offensive metagame, but in an environment without megas and too strong UBs, that's the picture I've made.

edit1: Here's a Chesnaught set I came up with in Gen6. Proved to be quite the fighter (pun intended)



The Juggernaut (Chesnaught) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Bulletproof  
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 148 SpD  
Impish Nature  
- Spikes  
- Spiky Shield  
- Drain Punch  
- Leech Seed

 

@Wolfox About Fairy, I had the following 2 suggestions.

1) Bug no longer resists Fairy

2) Psychic resists Fairy

 

One of them could be enough to balance the type, and no longer have it be the anti-meta type that was introduced just to nerf others (notably Dragon)

I wouldn't go as far as to deem Scizor an insta-kill for most Fairy monos, since i) there have been specific pokemon that destroyed whole monotype teams (see Talonflame against Bug or Grass) and ii) dual-types are there to check the most notable problems. Certainly Fairy, being the new type, is limited in dual choices, but that alone isn't enough to disregard such a possibility. Remember that Scizor defeats the fairies thanks to the Steel STAB Bullet Punch, which is still there, and not because of U-turn or X-Scissor.
A Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy, Electric/Fairy or Steel/Fairy combination with good defense will simply do.

 

edit2: I've seen people propose Fairy becoming weak to Fire. That however would unnecessarily boost Fire more than it actually needs.

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@Thundermaze Hey, it's not the dragon's fault that it happens to be pseudo central. I mean, we got Flygon, which is an awesome 'mon!

5a5bb8edc832a_download(2).jpg.ca6ceb5484f404705a182872ef0cb62c.jpg

And may I guess your favourity pokemon as Sirknight?

 

@HAWmaro Yeah, fairy is a bit OP of a typing. Maybe if GF made it weak to rock and/or fire (since fire already resists it), things would be a bit more balanced.

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5 minutes ago, NickCrash said:

@Dragoknight I have seen your previous disdain for Chesnaught, and that's one factor I made the list. It's great for setting spikes, leech seed and even recover with Drain Punch. Sometimes you see Synthesis with Spikey Shield, and a few times you come across the belly drum set. Certainly the typing is a double-edged sword; great against certain threats, weak against others, while Tangy and Ferro are consistently good against most threats, but that main problem is up for the rest of the team to alleviate. I'm not really sure how well all of them fare in the recent gen7 ultra offensive metagame, but in an environment without megas and too strong UBs, that's the picture I've made.

 

@Wolfox About Fairy, I had the following 2 suggestions.

1) Bug no longer resists Fairy

2) Psychic resists Fairy

 

One of them could be enough to balance the type, and no longer have it be the anti-meta type that was introduced just to nerf others (notably Dragon)

I wouldn't go as far as to deem Scizor an insta-kill for most Fairy monos, since i) there have been specific pokemon that destroyed whole monotype teams (see Talonflame against Bug or Grass) and ii) dual-types are there to check the most notable problems. Certainly Fairy, being the new type, is limited in dual choices, but that alone isn't enough to disregard such a possibility. Remember that Scizor defeats the fairies thanks to the Steel STAB Bullet Punch, which is still there, and not because of U-turn or X-Scissor.
A Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy, Electric/Fairy or Steel/Fairy combination with good defense will simply do.

 

Since Psychic is a little lackluster type,i really approve this,it needs a buff like this ~

 

@Dragoknight I just can't love the dragon types,i just can't,i feel like they don't quite fit in the Pokemon universe,well but that's just my opinion ~

 

And yes love me some sanaitoo ~

 

Edit=Only two Dragon type i can stand is Grandpa(you know what i mean~) and a little Dragonite ~

Edited by Thundermaze
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6 minutes ago, NickCrash said:

@Dragoknight I have seen your previous disdain for Chesnaught, and that's one factor I made the list. It's great for setting spikes, leech seed and even recover with Drain Punch. Sometimes you see Synthesis with Spikey Shield, and a few times you come across the belly drum set. Certainly the typing is a double-edged sword; great against certain threats, weak against others, while Tangy and Ferro are consistently good against most threats, but that main problem is up for the rest of the team to alleviate. I'm not really sure how well all of them fare in the recent gen7 ultra offensive metagame, but in an environment without megas and too strong UBs, that's the picture I've made.

 

@Wolfox About Fairy, I had the following 2 suggestions.

1) Bug no longer resists Fairy

2) Psychic resists Fairy

 

One of them could be enough to balance the type, and no longer have it be the anti-meta type that was introduced just to nerf others (notably Dragon)

I wouldn't go as far as to deem Scizor an insta-kill for most Fairy monos, since i) there have been specific pokemon that destroyed whole monotype teams (see Talonflame against Bug or Grass) and ii) dual-types are there to check the most notable problems. Certainly Fairy, being the new type, is limited in dual choices, but that alone isn't enough to disregard such a possibility. Remember that Scizor defeats the fairies thanks to the Steel STAB Bullet Punch, which is still there, and not because of U-turn or X-Scissor.
A Water/Fairy, Fire/Fairy, Electric/Fairy or Steel/Fairy combination with good defense will simply do.

 

*Bug no longer resists fairy* little mix up there.

And while you're correct about scizor killing fairies because of bullet punch, with just that one move it's already dubbed the best fairy killed in any meta, be it OU or mono. the only things fairy can really do to "check" it are Babiri clef with fire blast (as unreliable it tends to be, it's the best pixies have to kill the Red Menace without sacking everything and hoping Azu get's to do a drum solo) and maybe Klefki can do some damage if the scizor user is dumb enough to try and SD on it (just a tip btw, don't do that unless you're 100% sure Klefki doesn't have Foul Play)

 

Also, @Thundermaze, calling Psychic a "lackluster" type is a little inaccurate. It was the top type in the gen 6 mono meta (granted the whole council mained it and tried keeping it on top by favoring it, leading to things like Mega Gallade being banned because that mon with Knock Off hurt psychic quite a bit). on offence, it's pretty good, but for defense, it's pretty shit, I'll give you that

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I honestly don't think that, if Fairy stopped resisting Bug, Scizor would be any better vs Fairy... As @NickCrash said, it never relied on Technician Bug Bite/U-Turn, but on priority Technician Bullet Punch.

I am in doubt about whether that would render the Bugs a bit OP though, since they hit Super Effectively Dark/Psychic and Grass already and have A TON of secondary type coverage... That's why, even though they get resisted by almost everything, they remain relevant.

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11 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Also, @Thundermaze, calling Psychic a "lackluster" type is a little inaccurate. It was the top type in the gen 6 mono meta (granted the whole council mained it and tried keeping it on top by favoring it, leading to things like Mega Gallade being banned because that mon with Knock Off hurt psychic quite a bit). on offence, it's pretty good, but for defense, it's pretty shit, I'll give you that

I meant it defensively~

 

I should've made myself clear~

 

And to me Psychic type being powerful has little to do with it's typing itself,it's just that most of the psychic types has vast movepool and great coverage options makes them viable for most team,err i guess it can be said,they are easy to fit in and use,

 

Hitting just Poison and Fight does hint that types STAB is not that broken imo~

Edited by Thundermaze
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Pasting the scoreboard here for convenience's sake.

 

Bulbasaur: 25

Charmander: 10

Squirtle: 3

Cyndaquil: 26

Totodile: 19

Treecko: 7

Torchic: 5

Mudkip: 24

Turtwig: 22

Chimchar: 16

Piplup: 21

Snivy: 16

Oshawott: 20

Chespin: 18

Fennekin: 21

Froakie: 18

Rowlet: 19

Litten: 16

Popplio: 22

 

@NickCrash Psychic resisting fairy would be a pretty cool idea in order to buff a defensively weak type and nerf a better one. And I feel that bug type moves should have an overall buff when it comes to typing. I mean, 3 strengths and 7 resists? Really?

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The whole situation with Psychic in gen6mono was the attitude the mono-council had to favor it. At first they were against removing Hoopa-U from the monotype (!), only backing down on that decision because of the massive negative feedback (by people constantly beating them, thanks to knowing all of them ran Psychic). I was one of those guys using Bug just to mess with the council a bit more. If we speak by the numbers, it suffers from diversity and ability to play more archetypes than the straightforward offensive ones.
 

On it's own Psychic as a type suffers defensively. Resists Fighting and itself. That's it. It becomes even more ridiculous when you find out Fighting is also resisted by Poison, Flying, Bug, and Fairy. While offensively it's only stopped by itself, Steel and nullified by Dark, having only 0 meaningful resistances for 3 widespread weaknesses is far from being balanced. 

 

Bug is much luckier in that regard, since it actually gets meaningful resists in Ground and Fighting. Sure, the secondary typing usually removes one or two of those, but provides the ability to strike back. While Bug gets the short end of the stick by being an introductory (somewhat secondary) type and a lot of Bug types are early game fodder, the more Bugs created, the better the odds at diversity. That's where it gets more options than Psychic, and that's probably why main Bug STAB makes no real difference (or sense). I think @Jess was making a point about this in a previous discussion.

 

edit1: @Dragoknight Well, for what it's worth, Leech Life received a 60BP buff in gen7, making some pokemon even deadlier.

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8 minutes ago, Jess said:

I honestly don't think that, if Fairy stopped resisting Bug, Scizor would be any better vs Fairy... As @NickCrash said, it never relied on Technician Bug Bite/U-Turn, but on priority Technician Bullet Punch.

I am in doubt about whether that would render the Bugs a bit OP though, since they hit Super Effectively Dark/Psychic and Grass already and have A TON of secondary type coverage... That's why, even though they get resisted by almost everything, they remain relevant.

True. bug, Just like a fairy in that regard, generally relies on its secondary types to hit hard. granted just picture a scizor that can just Uturn with it being resisted by fairy on said fairy. it can beat fairy almost single-handedly (granted it already can)

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Just now, Dragoknight said:

Ehhh, I'll take what I can get. Plus, I like Dragonite as is. It will forever be the greatest dragon dancer in my eyes. Also, what about Mega Grampa?

If they make him even look older,i'll be soo okay with that :D ~

 

By the way voting~

 

Bulbasaur: 25

Charmander: 10

Squirtle: 3

Cyndaquil: 26

Totodile: 19

Treecko: 5

Torchic: 5

Mudkip: 24

Turtwig: 22

Chimchar: 16

Piplup: 21

Snivy: 16

Oshawott: 20

Chespin: 18

Fennekin: 21

Froakie: 18

Rowlet: 19

Litten: 16

Popplio: 23

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I got some free time and saw what dual types there are for each type. We don't count those exclusive to megas or legends. It seems the list is as follows:

 

Flying: 17/17 (full house)

Water: 16/17 (misses Fire)

Grass: 16/17 (misses Fire)

Ground: 15/17 (misses Fairy, Fighting)

Dark: 14/17 (misses Electric, Bug, Fairy)

Electric: 13/17 (misses Fighting, Poison, Dark, Dragon)

Psychic: 13/17 (misses Poison, Bug, Dragon, Ghost)

Rock: 13/17 (misses Fighting, Poison, Normal, Ghost)

Steel: 13/17 (misses Normal, Fire, Poison, Dragon)

Fire: 12/17 (misses Water, Grass, Ice, Fairy, Steel)

Fighting: 12/17 (misses Electric, Ground, Fairy, Rock, Ghost)

Ice: 12/17 (misses Normal, Fire, Poison, Bug, Dragon)

Bug: 12/17 (misses Normal, Ice, Psychic, Dragon, Dark)

Ghost: 12/17 (misses Normal, Rock, Fighting, Dragon, Psychic)

Normal: 11/17 (misses Ice, Poison, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Steel)

Poison: 11/17 (misses Normal, Electric, Ice, Psychic, Steel, Fairy)

Fairy: 11/17 (misses Fire, Fighting, Poison, Ground, Dragon, Dark)

Dragon: 10/17 (misses Electric, Ice, Bug, Fairy, Steel, Ghost, Psychic)

 

 

 

I would love it if everyone used these colours for each type.

 

 

 

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I'm saddened by the fact that we still, after 7 generations, don't have any Psychic/Bug or Ice/Bug type Pokemon.

I'd like a Mega Vivillon with its secondary type matching its area of evolution. This way, we could cover the remaining types xD

 

6 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Uhm... doesn't dragon also miss Grass? cuz mega Sceptile is the only one iirc

No, Alolan Exeggutor exists...

Edit: Ninja'ed by @NickCrash

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Butterfree and Vivillon could have been Bug/Psychic but apparently someone thought Flying was a better idea. 

Flygon being Bug/Dragon is also a thing that never happened. 

Ice/Bug is so easy to design, yet nobody has so far.

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Scizor never relies on U-Turn but instead uses it because it synergises well with it's signature Bullet Punch; Come in to revenge kill? They switch out, but you predict that and get off a decently strong stab move and can counter that switch. Bug Bite is just a strong stab move.

 

I'd personally be a bigger fan of Fairy's being weak to/resisted by Psychic though. Would make the Fairy matchup for Dragon bearable what with Latios/Latias actually being able to play on even footing. More over it'd make them all synergise well with Dark/Fighting types on top of the Dark/Fighting/Psychic cores as they can all take care of each other. gib more wuv to jewwy baby reuniclus plox.

 

Mfw you like basically every Dragon type to a degree. Garchomp, Hydreigon, Flygon, Kindra and Salamence remain my top 5 though , got your absurdity and obligatory 'edge' in landsharkdinosaurjetplanedragon(it's absurd and amazing.), weirdly adorable Chubby Hydra and Antlion Dragon, and then majestic Seahorse Dragon and the bogstandard but obligatory European Dragon. Honorable mention goes to Alolan Exeggutor, actual perfection.

Spoiler

garchomp-2.gifhydreigon-2.gifflygon.gifkingdra.gifsalamence-5.gif103a.gif

 

Where's my Flygon and Kingdra Megas, Game Freak >:(

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10 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Vivillon could get Psychic, give Yanmega dragon and... new bug type for ice

Could work!

 

9 minutes ago, NickCrash said:

Butterfree and Vivillon could have been Bug/Psychic but apparently someone thought Flying was a better idea. 

Flygon being Bug/Dragon is also a thing that never happened. 

Ice/Bug is so easy to design, yet nobody has so far.

I still have no clue how a 'mon (Butterfree) that in Gen I had no solid offensive Flying type move (Gust was Normal I think in Gen I) but had a solid offensive Psychic type move ended up being Flying instead of Psychic. I guess that, if Butterfree or Vivillon became Psychic though, they'd lose their niche (CompoundEyes abuse), since they'd have to get Levitate... Or they'd not, but we'd have the common weird thing where a 'mon that can fly gets hit by Ground type moves.

We'd all love a Bug/Dragon Mega Flygon, I think... Losing STAB on Ground attacks would hurt, but it would be freaking awesome.

 

There are actual bugs in nature that only survive in cold climate. Here they are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grylloblattidae

So what, we can have a Fighting/Ice type crab (ffs), but not a replica of a real species?

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I would lay off on bug flying Flygon myself. while I agree that it makes sense, it is called the "Desert Spirit". and to have the desert spirit take damage to sandstorm would not work that well.

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2 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I would lay off on bug flying Flygon myself. while I agree that it makes sense, it is called the "Desert Spirit". and to have the desert spirit take damage to sandstorm would not work that well.

So... Sand Rush?

Edit: We have gotten so much off-topic, jeez... I'ma call it quits here :D 

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