Pixies Types Hurt & Heal

[Zargerth]

Mew: 11

Jirachi: 11

Manaphy: 12

Victini: 7

[Newt]

Mew: 11

Jirachi: 9

Manaphy: 12

Victini: 8

[Gengar768]

Mew: 12

Jirachi: 7

Manaphy: 12

Victini: 8

 

 

 

[Anime]

Mew: 10

Jirachi: 7

Manaphy: 13

Victini: 8

[Azeria]

Mew: 10

Jirachi: 8

Manaphy: 13

Victini: 6

[Anti_Hero]

Mew: 11

Jirachi: 8

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 6

[Wolfox]

Mew: 12

Jirachi: 6

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 6

[HellBoyOnEarth]

Mew: 12

Jirachi: 4

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 7

[Walpurgis]

Hurt Victini, heal Jirachi 

 

Mew: 12

Jirachi: 5

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 5 

 

I'm sure that most of the people hurting Jirachi does it because how annoying it is in competitive, but design-wise you have to admit that it's the most complex, well thought out and probably the best executed of the list (it's not like the other set the bar very high with their designs, though). 

[Jess]

Mew: 13

Jirachi: 3

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 5

 

@walpurgis Indeed, Jirachi is well-designed. But nothing is cuter than Mew in my eyes. Plus, Serene Grace+Iron Head is a huge crime.

[Walpurgis]

11 minutes ago, Jess said:

Mew: 13

Jirachi: 3

Manaphy: 11

Victini: 5

 

@walpurgis Indeed, Jirachi is well-designed. But nothing is cuter than Mew in my eyes. Plus, Serene Grace+Iron Head is a huge crime.

When it comes to cuteness nobody can compete with a playful pink little kitten. 

[Ojama Yellow]

in my case, I voted for mew continuously because I like its versatility. I dont particularly find it very cute, though.

 

Mew: 14

Jirachi: 3

Manaphy: 9

Victini: 5

 

on the topic of jirachi-

 

[Wolfox]

I personally don't dislike Mew. But I do kinda dislike how people use it. Before it got a Z-move, it was generally a will-o defensive stally set... And then there's me, thinking that of literally everything you can do, you choose that...

[Ojama Yellow]

4 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I personally don't dislike Mew. But I do kinda dislike how people use it. Before it got a Z-move, it was generally a will-o defensive stally set... And then there's me, thinking that of literally everything you can do, you choose that...

not gonna lie, the will-o-wisp mew set was definitely my favorite. though I used to run something really weird. iirc it was wisp, taunt, rocks and roost. it was a fun one, albeit reliant on your opponent not knowing what tf that mew is running.

[Wolfox]

Someone once tried telling me that that wasn't a stall based set.

If your main way of removing your opponents HP is through something like will-o or Toxic and you generally click a move like recover, it's a stall based set.

[Jess]

@Dorcas

Yep, Z-Happy Hour looks balanced. Sweeps almost anything. What it can't OHKO, it just flinches it to death with Iron Head/Zen Headbutt. And recovers HP with Drain Punch too.

@Wolfox

Personally, I like Baton Passing Mew. But Baton Pass was apparently OP (ahahahaha), so they got it banned... Cause it's hard to carry, you know, Taunt, Haze or something like that...

[Zargerth]

Mew: 12
Jirachi: 3
Manaphy: 10
Victini: 5

[Ojama Yellow]

1 hour ago, Jess said:

 

Personally, I like Baton Passing Mew. But Baton Pass was apparently OP (ahahahaha), so they got it banned... Cause it's hard to carry, you know, Taunt, Haze or something like that...

if I recall correctly, a big reason why baton pass got banned was that baton pass chain teams existed. you couldnt whirlwind, roar, toxic or taunt them, because they would just baton pass into espeon, who bounced back whatever you tried to give them. haze is an extremely situational move that usually requires giving up a moveslot for something more suited to the mons role. unless your name is fucking toxapex in which case please get out of my life.

[Gengar768]

@Dorcas*Cough* Clefable *Cough*

[Jess]

25 minutes ago, Dorcas said:

if I recall correctly, a big reason why baton pass got banned was that baton pass chain teams existed. you couldnt whirlwind, roar, toxic or taunt them, because they would just baton pass into espeon, who bounced back whatever you tried to give them. haze is an extremely situational move that usually requires giving up a moveslot for something more suited to the mons role. unless your name is fucking toxapex in which case please get out of my life.

You can do so many things to stop a Baton Pass chain team. I don't know why you can't Roar or Taunt them by the way. Taunt isn't a negative priority move. Also, why not ban the combination of Magic Bounce with Baton Pass if that's the issue? Why ban an entire strategy, instead of the one tiny thing that made it "tough to handle"?

[Ojama Yellow]

1 minute ago, Jess said:

You can do so many things to stop a Baton Pass chain team. I don't know why you can't Roar or Taunt them by the way. Taunt isn't a negative priority move. Also, why not ban the combination of Magic Bounce with Baton Pass if that's the issue? Why ban an entire strategy, instead of the one tiny thing that made it "tough to handle"?

I wasnt entirely wrong, but apparently theres a whole backstory to the baton pass and smogon tale that goes way past chainpassing. which can be read here. theres a whole lot of discussion that went on that barely even looked at chainpassing, but as you can see disagreements still happened.

 

roar was impossible because espeons magic bounce...well, bounced that back. a fast taunter would be able to shut the strategy down early on, provided they didnt baton pass to espeon before or something. outspeeding was definitely hard because the most important stat to pass is usually speed. prankster taunters like sableye, klefki and whimsicott are pretty much the only viable taunters to shut the strategy down, and even of that list only sableye would be able to hit espeon hard.

[Jess]

7 minutes ago, Dorcas said:

I wasnt entirely wrong, but apparently theres a whole backstory to the baton pass and smogon tale that goes way past chainpassing. which can be read here. theres a whole lot of discussion that went on that barely even looked at chainpassing, but as you can see disagreements still happened.

 

roar was impossible because espeons magic bounce...well, bounced that back. a fast taunter would be able to shut the strategy down early on, provided they didnt baton pass to espeon before or something. outspeeding was definitely hard because the most important stat to pass is usually speed. prankster taunters like sableye, klefki and whimsicott are pretty much the only viable taunters to shut the strategy down, and even of that list only sableye would be able to hit espeon hard.

You still didn't answer why they couldn't just ban Espeon and (in general) Magic Bounce mons' combined use with Baton Pass instead of banning the entire strategy. They could ban Speed boost passing and Bagic Bounce, if that made the thing broken. But no, they had to ban the entire strategy, like crybabies. Plus, that discussion is TL;DR and I suspect it will be too salty for my taste too...

Anyways, since they banned evasiveness/accuracy and confusion already, I don't think it would be hard for them to consider illegal the common use of Speed Boost/Quiver Dance/Agility/Magic Bounce with Baton Pass.

[CrimsonDragon21]

Hurt Mew. Heal Jirachi.

 

Mew: 12

Jirachi: 4

Manaphy: 9

Victini: 5

 

[Ojama Yellow]

7 minutes ago, Jess said:

You still didn't answer why they couldn't just ban Espeon and (in general) Magic Bounce mons' combined use with Baton Pass instead of banning the entire strategy. They could ban Speed boost passing and Bagic Bounce, if that made the thing broken. But no, they had to ban the entire strategy, like crybabies. Plus, that discussion is TL;DR and I suspect it will be too salty for my taste too...

Anyways, since they banned evasiveness/accuracy and confusion already, I don't think it would be hard for them to consider illegal the common use of Speed Boost/Quiver Dance/Agility/Magic Bounce with Baton Pass.

to my surprise, there is very little salt going on in that thread, barring a guy calling someone else lowkey dumb for proposing to delete the baton pass clause overall, and allow unlimited baton pass. anyway, the main thing of that thread is the following.

 

"The OU Council believes that Baton Pass, as a move, should be banned from the SM OU metagame. Despite having a clause implemented to hinder Baton Pass teams, there are clearly still effective teams that make use of this strategy. Baton Pass teams are one of the most controversial parts of the metagame currently and this is in large part due to the strategy behind them, passing stat boosts to threatening Pokemon that can take advantage of them without many drawbacks. Common abusers of this strategy, such as Necrozma, Magearna, and Espeon, take advantage of being passed Speed boosts from Scolipede and then set up on their own, proceeding to sweep through a significant portion of the metagame and teams that are used. Therefore, the OU council believes that these teams have no place in the SM OU metagame and we must do something to change this."
 

the reason they didnt ban espeon + magic bounce is apparently partly because it wasnt the main problem at the moment, and partly because smogon has attempted complex bans for baton pass before and the move still managed to be broken. the first clause reportedly was to limit three baton passers on each team, which didnt go too well. after that, it was limited to only one baton passer a team, but apparently iron defense scolipede and geomancy smeargle still kicked asses during that era. the next ban was 'limit to one baton passer a team and disallow baton passing speed alongside other boosts'. from what ive read, some pokemon in the sm ou metagame (especially necrozma and magearna) were able to take those speed passes, and wreck the majority of the metagame without too much trouble. so passing speed + other stats with baton pass had already been considered and banned- but apparently that wasnt enough.

 

the next possibility would be to just ban baton pass in combination with any speed raising move, or just disallow baton pass to pass on boosts overall. the reason the council voted to ban baton pass rather than allow either one of these was that the clause would get overly complicated. the first mentioned possibility, namely baton pass + stats other than speed, would end up in a banlist so overly complicated that they felt it was a better idea to just outright ban the move, rather than compile a list of 50+ moves, abilities...etc. that baton pass couldnt be used with. the latter...the comparison to speed boost + blaziken and double team vs bright powder got brought up. overall it was decided that barely anything would be hurt from the loss of drypassing, and that it wasnt worth implementing a clause for. especially because the clause would be, once again, extremely convoluted.

 

keep in mind that the majority of this information isnt me speaking- rather its shortened version of the thoughts of the council while discussing the baton pass ban. I am in no way knowledgeable enough to come up with all this myself (especially considering ive barely done any competitive in gen VII).

 

also, im pretty confusion hasnt been banned outright- the one getting the boot was swagger due to the move being extremely uncompetitive.

 

either way, should you feel like continuing this discussion, my pm box is open. I feel like this thread has been the plaything of this baton pass discussion for long enough now.

[Jess]

3 minutes ago, Dorcas said:

the next possibility would be to just ban baton pass in combination with any speed raising move, or just disallow baton pass to pass on boosts overall. the reason the council voted to ban baton pass rather than allow either one of these was that the clause would get overly complicated.

This, in my -well-trained in hearing and translating excuses- ear, sounds like "we can't be assed to write a proper clause, so fuck this shit, ban it altogether and let's hit the pub".

 

6 minutes ago, Dorcas said:

overall it was decided that barely anything would be hurt from the loss of drypassing, and that it wasnt worth implementing a clause for. especially because the clause would be, once again, extremely convoluted.

"Why are we still discussing this? I need burger and a beer, just ban it all!!!"

 

7 minutes ago, Dorcas said:

either way, should you feel like continuing this discussion, my pm box is open. I feel like this thread has been the plaything of this baton pass discussion for long enough now.

True, let's get back to crowning Mew the best pixie.