Can you downvote USUM for being a lot like Sun and Moon? And why do you think so?

[Wolfox]

Simple question really. Can you truly say USUM is not a great game for being a lot like Sun and Moon? Before you say "Yes, of course.", please take in mind that I'm talking about USUM on its own.

 

I, personally, would say no. Of course, if you want you are allowed to. But I won't say it's justified. Sun and Moon, with all their issues, are amazing games. USUM fixes quite a bit of the issues Sun and Moon had. A nice example being the Intro and tutorial. USUM are great games, even if they are similar to Sun and Moon, be it in the best or worst parts.

 

But that's just my 2 cents on it. Please let me know what you think

[Commander]

How about we put it this way: can you say a game is bad because it reuses and rehashes old content claiming it is a new game? Reusing elements from old games is important, but there comes a point where it gets old. Pokemon has gotten old for me a long time ago as it's the same game for the past 25 or so years. Are they fun games worth playing? Yes, but I just want to point out one last thing: you said USUM are great/amazing games.

 

Now the best way to describe Pokemon is that it's the CoD of RPGs. It's not THAT bad, but you'll see what I mean. If any other RPG making company tried half the stuff they did, it'd not end well. Simply put, Pokemon is a series that's all about mindless fun. It focuses more on being flashy than actually being good. The overall cast is just hallow shells with a story simply there to fill the role. While mechanics and new gimmicks are fun and usually solid, it feels as if everything we like simply gets thrown away with the next gen (Gym leader rematches, Difficulty modes, contests/movie maker, Battle Frontier) so you can't get that attached to them.

 

Do I even need to go into the two versions and the usual third version mechanic. This is not a continuation but a remake of a game simply because it's easy money. Hell, they even made two versions of it. It's very easy and very cheap to do and is very successful. I get reusing assets when making a sequel game (hell B2/W2 is what I feel should be what a second game in a region should be), but nothing I saw was all that impressive. From what I've seen, this is a supposed enhanced version of a game I didn't like so much I stopped at the tutorial (which is pretty much 1/4th of the game). This is just me crapping on business tactics for them to get more money than they normally would (every person who buys two versions of the game is an extra 40 bucks minus like 2 bucks for the actual game). It's really smart, but not something I agree with.

 

Now I'll merely treat it as a standalone game meaning I won't compare it to anything Pokemon. You have a lot of stuff to collect and mess around with, but the game's overall difficulty doesn't push to learn how to use the system effectively meaning it's designed for non RPG gamers. It's flashy and looks good and is overall fast paced which is a fantastic games for casuals. It doesn't really excel in anything other than a competitive mechanic system. Most gamers are not into that so they won't care so much in that regard. It's a simple and fun experience that lasts 12 to 20 hours on average with a small postgame and a lot of collectibles. It's not a game for people seeking a game with a strong story, while the mechanics are good, the difficulty really doesn't challenge it for skilled RPG players, and due to a handheld the graphics are a bit limited and battle still feel really static despite all the flashiness.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think people can find and really enjoy USUM if they are a Pokemon fan, but we have to not look at this perspective. When you say a game is fantastic, you are saying it's worth picking up and playing MORE than the bulk of the video game library which is countless of games. If you want to try and prove me wrong, by all means try. If you meant fantastic as an addition to the franchise, that's a different topic entirely. But that's not what you are looking for:

 

Just because a game reuses assets doesn't make it automatically bad, but it generally does feel weaker compared to using fresh assets. Reusing assets dampers the experience unless the world is very, and I mean, very well built which Pokemon does not qualify. So I feel it is justified to deduct points because of that and something that should be pointed out. Heck, I deducted points in Trails in the Skies 3rd (probably in my top 10 favorite games of all time) for doing this.

[Candy]

No.

[Chase]

Nope. Not when Game Freak and Nintendo and the Pokémon Company essentially gave enough of a tip off to insinuate the game was going to be much like the Emeralds and Platinums of the past in comparison to something like Black and White 2. Alternate story elements were listed as just that, not a whole new tale.

 

In terms of it being an alternative telling of the events in Sun and Moon with more features - making the games the definitive titles of Generation 7? It doesn't matter if the game put you off by it's similarities. The games were exactly what they were supposed to be.

 

You hit the nail on the head, Wolfox. Sun and Moon were good entries into the series that didn't need a whole lot to be made "better" in terms of playability. That means that the story didn't need to be changed much (and still Game Freak obliged).

 

---

 

I -do- think however, that you can dislike a game from the vantage point you took going in. I feel like players that had gone through Alola before -reasonably- had a right to feel "cheated". The Ultra titles didn't change the graphics much at all, the story was very much similar, and the rest of the additions felt like it could have been downloadable content in a day and age where people don't have to buy the same game over and over and over again as Pokémon has made its fortune from. It really looked like the original Sun and Moon could be patched or given the Ultra content with DLC purchases that cost less at a later date.

 

I didn't feel cheated, because I already know about buying two versions of the same game, and I was aware of the direction Game Freak was going with the Ultra games. That doesn't mean it feels particularly great to not get as much out of playing through the story as you got from playing the previous game.

 

---

 

That being said - the Ultra games did enough of the small changes to keep me looking for them. For example, Prof. Kukui was the master of misdirection from the moment he suddenly owned a Cutiefly to his fake-out at the Pokémon League. On top of that, the extra Pokémon roster, Tutors throughout the game thanks to Mantine Surf, and being able to collect Legendary Pokémon from all generations on one generation's game through the Ultra Wormholes was good enough to maximize playtime when the story felt repetitive.

 

For the player JUST getting to Alola, the Ultra games were probably as good as we thought Sun and Moon were - if not making a better impression.

 

The question really just is - would you pay full price for Ultra Sun after playing Sun?

[Radon]

If I was someone who was just getting into Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, no. But as someone who has already played Sun and Moon, hell yes.

 

On its own, it would seem like a new game at first glance. But if you're someone who played Sun and Moon already, you're going to find 70 percent of USUM a snorefest. The game could've easily passed as DLC. I merely bought it out of curiosity because of what it had to offer via trailers. I truly thought it was going to be a continuation or something, but nah. It wasn't. remember seeing Totem Pokemon in the trailer thinking: "Oh is Lurantis finally going to be good? Will we need something to gain the extra stat boosts?". But no, it was just a regular pokemon with a size change. A Pokemon like Gourgiest had me thinking it'd have a change in stats as well. It was just an alternate version of SM. Everyone you knew was repositioned around Alola--well not everyone. The only thing I honestly enjoyed was the Necrozma fight and final trial. That was pretty much it. Literally..DLC. 

 

..Though I did plan to get another copy of Sun that I wanted to get for some time now, Ultra Moon suited me well when it came to doing just that. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Wolfox]

1 minute ago, Radon said:

If I was someone who was just getting into Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, no. But as someone who has already played Sun and Moon, hell yes.

 

On its own, it would seem like a new game at first glance. But if you're someone who played Sun and Moon already, you're going to find 70 percent of USUM a snorefest. The game could've easily passed as DLC. I merely bought it out of curiosity because of what it had to offer via trailers. I truly thought it was going to be a continuation or something, but nah. It wasn't. remember seeing Totem Pokemon in the trailer thinking: "Oh is Lurantis finally going to be good? Will we need something to gain the extra stat boosts?". But no, it was just a regular pokemon with a size change. A Pokemon like Gourgiest had me thinking it'd have a change in stats as well. It was just an alternate version of SM. Everyone you knew was repositioned around Alola--well not everyone. The only thing I honestly enjoyed was the Necrozma fight and final trial. That was pretty much it. Literally..DLC. 

By that logic Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum are just as much of "DLC". Also, it has literally been stated that it was an alternate story in alola. no continuation. I see your points. But I do want to ask: does it make the game worse than Sun and Moon?

[Radon]

12 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

By that logic Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum are just as much of "DLC". Also, it has literally been stated that it was an alternate story in alola. no continuation. I see your points. But I do want to ask: does it make the game worse than Sun and Moon?

 

It never said anything like that in the Trailers. Although it did say this in it: "Welcome to an 'All new' adventure". [Lol, far from it.] There was even source spoilers spread on youtube which also had me thinking alot of things. As for its presentation, it was adding fuel to the expectation fire. 

 

As for whether or not it makes the game worse than Sun and Moon. If it was presented first i'd have second thoughts--as a game, i'm going to say yes. While it isn't "worse" as a game, the existence of Sun and Moon make it worse if you see where i'm going with this. Most don't even bother speaking about this topic though, because they wish to expect that the next new game for the Switch will be better and that talking about USUM and how its almost the same in comparison to Sun and Moon isn't worth it. Because people will try to defend the fact that it isn't the same or something along those lines. While Platinum and Emerald and all of that were along the same "DLC" logic, I was but a child. I just wanted Pokemon lol. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Wolfox]

... yes, it was said that it's an alternate story... Multiple times even I think

 

And I get your point, but in general, USUM is a better game than Sun and Moon if you don't look at the story.

[Radon]

2 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

... yes, it was said that it's an alternate story... Multiple times even I think

 

And I get your point, but in general, USUM is a better game than Sun and Moon if you don't look at the story.

Where? On the site? 

Where was it said first at the very beginning before or after the first official trailer shown? Because I didnt see anything. >.>

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Wolfox]

I don't recall the exact trailer, but I do remember that it was said (How else do numerous people believe that it was said in a trailer)

[Radon]

5 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

I don't recall the exact trailer, but I do remember that it was said (How else do numerous people believe that it was said in a trailer)

"numerous people" huh..?

 

If that was true, there wouldnt be so much disappointment. lol

 

Also yeah, in general its the better game simply because its more updated. As a game however, it seems rather dishonest. Like it held things back to me. I mean to add ontop of that, its the final game of a handheld, and you'd expect something pretty big from the final game of the 3DS. The end of an era. But it was just.. an update. =/

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Wolfox]

"Be able to get all legendaries in your game without transferring between generations"

Nah, not big enough of a boom to end it.

[Radon]

3 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

"Be able to get all legendaries in your game without transferring between generations"

Nah, not big enough of a boom to end it.

..Pokemon bank exists and communities exist to give out these mons. Nothing special. 

 

Especially if you have all the games. But lets leave that slightly to the side.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Wolfox]

not everyone uses Pokébank tho~

[Radon]

6 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

not everyone uses Pokébank tho~

While that is true, again GTS or groups such as on Facebook or Discord exist. 

 

I'll admit this much though, for kids or "only childs", that have 1 handheld to themselves or have absolutely no internet.. (That case might sound rare to me, but personally idk.) would benefit mostly from getting those legends. But its not that big at all really..

Edited January 27, 2018 by Radon

[Ice Cream Sand Witch]

I'd say USUM had the most updates from its previous two games out of every third version (not including BW2 which were sequels).

 

USUM added:

-several new features: Mantine Surfing, Alola Photo Club, Battle Agent Sea (not new for the series, but new for Alola), Ultra Ride, the Pokemon in the overworld that play with you, maybe one or two others that aren't coming to mind.

-A ton of new sidequests. Probably at least 20-30.

-Massive changes in lategame story. Not expanded, outright changed (and improved, for me).

-The Ultra Recon Squad and being able to explore more of Ultra Space. (unfortunately no Ultra Megalopolis exploration, but there's still the expansion of Ultra Space).

-new Ultra Beasts

 

For me, it was worth it just for the improved Lusamine. It could've been the exact same game as SM except with a better Lusamine and it would've been worth it for me. 

 

I don't like darkness (I have a hard time even playing Reborn when stuff happens) because I don't believe Earth is our real planet and don't believe Earth darkness like torture exists at home on our real planet, so a less dark Lusamine is a better Lusamine for me. USUM Lusamine's Aether stuff was toned down a lot, her motives are explained in more depth and easier to digest, she gets more redemption and closure, and you can visit her any time in Aether in the postgame. 

 

Lusamine is one of my favorite fictional characters (if not my favorite), and I want the best for her. I want her to be happy, and I want her to be a parent that Lillie and Gladion, as well as all the Pokemon she takes in, can admire. 

 

USUM being DLC instead of a new game would mean I couldn't get it if you had to pay for it, because I'm not capable of or allowed to do online money. I can only do physical money, so it needs to be available in a store to buy for me to get it. 

[Wolfox]

24 minutes ago, Ice Cream Sand Witch said:

I'd say USUM had the most updates from its previous two games out of every third version (not including BW2 which were sequels).

 

USUM added:

-several new features: Mantine Surfing, Alola Photo Club, Battle Agent Sea (not new for the series, but new for Alola), Ultra Ride, the Pokemon in the overworld that play with you, maybe one or two others that aren't coming to mind.

-A ton of new sidequests. Probably at least 20-30.

-Massive changes in lategame story. Not expanded, outright changed (and improved, for me).

-The Ultra Recon Squad and being able to explore more of Ultra Space. (unfortunately no Ultra Megalopolis exploration, but there's still the expansion of Ultra Space).

 

For me, it was worth it just for the improved Lusamine. It could've been the exact same game as SM except with a better Lusamine and it would've been worth it for me. 

 

I don't like darkness (I have a hard time even playing Reborn when stuff happens) because I don't believe Earth is our real planet and don't believe Earth darkness like torture exists at home on our real planet, so a less dark Lusamine is a better Lusamine for me. USUM Lusamine's Aether stuff was toned down a lot, her motives are explained in more depth and easier to digest, she gets more redemption and closure, and you can visit her any time in Aether in the postgame. 

 

Lusamine is one of my favorite fictional characters (if not my faborite), and I want the best for her. I want her to be happy, and I want her to be a parent that Lillie and Gladion, as well as all the Pokemon she takes in, can admire. 

 

USUM being DLC instead of a new game would mean I couldn't get it if you had to pay for it, because I'm not capable of or allowed to do online money. I can only do physical money, so it needs to be available in a store to buy for me to get it. 

another thing they fixed is SoS encounters. The pokémon will now only calls once at most unless you use one of those adrenaline orbs

[Radon]

On 1/27/2018 at 10:18 AM, Ice Cream Sand Witch said:

I'd say USUM had the most updates from its previous two games out of every third version (not including BW2 which were sequels).

 

USUM added:

-several new features: Mantine Surfing, Alola Photo Club, Battle Agent Sea (not new for the series, but new for Alola), Ultra Ride, the Pokemon in the overworld that play with you, maybe one or two others that aren't coming to mind.

-A ton of new sidequests. Probably at least 20-30.

-Massive changes in lategame story. Not expanded, outright changed (and improved, for me).

-The Ultra Recon Squad and being able to explore more of Ultra Space. (unfortunately no Ultra Megalopolis exploration, but there's still the expansion of Ultra Space).

-new Ultra Beasts

 

For me, it was worth it just for the improved Lusamine. It could've been the exact same game as SM except with a better Lusamine and it would've been worth it for me. 

 

I don't like darkness (I have a hard time even playing Reborn when stuff happens) because I don't believe Earth is our real planet and don't believe Earth darkness like torture exists at home on our real planet, so a less dark Lusamine is a better Lusamine for me. USUM Lusamine's Aether stuff was toned down a lot, her motives are explained in more depth and easier to digest, she gets more redemption and closure, and you can visit her any time in Aether in the postgame. 

 

Lusamine is one of my favorite fictional characters (if not my favorite), and I want the best for her. I want her to be happy, and I want her to be a parent that Lillie and Gladion, as well as all the Pokemon she takes in, can admire. 

 

USUM being DLC instead of a new game would mean I couldn't get it if you had to pay for it, because I'm not capable of or allowed to do online money. I can only do physical money, so it needs to be available in a store to buy for me to get it. 

Oh I see. 

That's unfortunate. lol