[DDLC] How do the kids start ....w-w...waifu wars....again?

[Chase]

Alright, for a short game that I wish didn't stick with me as much as it does, I have to ask the all important question.

 

How would you rank the girls in "Doki Doki Literature Club?"

 

.....I going to type this as fast as possible and then take a long shower and rethink some of my life decisions. Make sure you play the game before venturing further into this one. It's better to not know what the actual hell is going on with this title. Don't start getting mad...it's free on Steam and for download on its own. Google it.

 

4. The Girl Next Door

Spoiler

Sayori finds herself in the "last but not worst" category. Her portrayal of depression is very real and cared for by Team Salvato. She also (in what I perceive to be a duality with Monika) is destructively selfless, which feeds into her depression in a believable manner, and said selflessness is weaponized against her - which provides with it the lesson of remembering that you too also deserve to be taken care of. The best part about Sayori is that she's incredibly manipulative - touched upon by the scene the MC refuses to pay for her snack ending with Sayori managing to eat Natsuki's cookie. The personality she has is fantastic  - and it works as the "balance" the rest of the literature club needs.

 

That being said - her "bestie" status with the main character is questionable given our insight into the MC's thoughts. Then we get to the nitty-gritty. I, Hunter, don't respond much at all to emotional situations - which are the inspiration for Sayori's poetry (She prefers bittersweet endings and her poetry is extremely good at tugging on the heart.) and the situations that Sayori values the most. Her reliance on emotional support is shown through being so close to the MC that she is mistakenly seen as a romantic partner by the other girls - and it serves as the tether in the friendship in general. One the MC -and- myself clearly didn't reciprocate or even feel in any way.

 

Furthermore, Sayori walks herself into tough situations and traps the protagonist with her questions. Ones that may make people who have a better heart than I fall for her - but those who prefer to analyze and think their way out of everything have a strong possibility of disliking the tight spots Sayori places us in. In short, her performance in Act 1 was strong, but caused too much conflict to be realized in even wanting to play her route. By the time that was a choice I could make, I've heard others were emotionally crushed by it - and that was enough to stop for good.

 

3. She's Not Cute

Spoiler

Natsuki is a charming addition to the Tsundere Tsorority. (double Tau, Sista.)

 

She makes an exceptional match for the main character's personal traits (meaning, the ones he's not borrowing from you, the player) in that she has an appreciation for Japanese media that she feels insecure about, is all about that good banter, and may even be a degree disinterested in most other literature that requires you to write a bit more than usual. In typical Tsun fashion, she does have a heart too. However, she exhibits it in a pleasing show of competitive nature and, again perfect for the main character himself, a small inkling of "Hero Complex". This makes her - despite her incoming flaws - a good target girl for people trying to play the MC to the character as opposed to imposing their own personality upon him. She even bakes...so like......what's her problem, Hunter?

 

Her problem is something Dan Salvato would readily admit. She seems the most "under-developed" (No, that's not a joke about her appearance, you perverts) of all the characters. Where Sayori and Yuri have complex inner turmoil and dramatic turns of event, Natsuki has an easily forgivable external issue in that her home life sucks. Monika is successfully able to make Sayori and Yuri have "wait a minute, maybe she's not healthy to be with" moments, but she really stretches to no avail to incriminate Natsuki.

 

She feels like the "right answer" to the game - without saying too much. That's why I'm only friends with her.

 

2. Just-

Spoiler

Monika. Just Monika. Just....

 

okay, I'm alright.

 

By this point, the physical attraction element of the visual novel game starts to score some points. Monika really -is- pretty. One of my vices is when a girl makes a gesture that indicates she's intelligent. Her "Okay, everyone!" pose is my favorite. She also wears different knee-highs than the other girls. Her bow is gigantic, and her hair is the most complex of the four. On top of that, the "ahaha~" back bend, skirt flip pose is just icing.

 

Then there's the game's presentation of Monika. The MC makes a personal assessment of Monika's perfection that is integrated so well with the gameplay. She's way out of his league, he says. Later that night when he's trying to write his first poem, Monika isn't an option for the player to try and impress. This is brought about even more when Monika starts giving advice when she reads the MC's poetry and shares her own. Monika likes philosophical approaches and has the most esoteric explanations of her work (which is intentional, but also indicates that again, she's smart.) An attractive female that wants to talk about existentialism? I like where this is going...

 

What goes without saying is that she makes a very good redeemable antagonist who "murders" her friends because she believes they aren't real and are only getting in the way of what she wants. Remember when I talked about Sayori being selfless? The crux of this game is that Monika, Ms. No Route, is destructively ALL about herself. When the player turns the tables on her, she shows remorse and reveals that she didn't even have the heart to really off her friends at all.

 

---

 

She falls short because of the things she says in the two-and-a-half-hour Stockholm Syndrome Show she has with you in Act III. Here, Monika has you all to herself, and talks to you in a seemingly taunting, flirty manner about various subjects. She freely mocks her former friends and goes into detail about their death in Sayori's case that seems pretty insensitive, hints that she may lowkey be into vore, doesn't talk at all after bringing up 'the Portrait of Markov' (which is hinted out often enough for fans to want some information), and finally, writes a treatise on the Problem of Evil after asking the player about if they believe in God.

 

Knowing Monika's situation - it's understandable why she would think an existent God has a horrible sense of humor. She alludes to Dan Salvato being -her- creator, but remarks that Sayori and Yuri's fates are probably still a laughing matter to him. She takes exception to believers praising God in the event something -good- happens after all that bad.

 

Monika seemingly hints that she's probably not down on the idea of a God, but is okay with there being one if God is like Dan - lending to only an acceptable measure of Deism.

 

.....Yeah, I believe God is personal. I don't think I can stay in this space classroom with you for eternity if you're going to not let me respond.

 

Petty answer, Hunter? Hey, she's the next best girl. That's a good place to be.

 

1. Knife Wife

Spoiler

Is Yuri a spirit animal?

 

Her trope is the 'Shrinking Violet', and that's one I can appreciate as that was pretty much me in middle school. It wasn't a great trait to have in middle school, and things changed for me. However, women having it when they get older and people grow out of their being a jerk-ass, makes it kind of attractive from afar.

 

She's also the most verbose writer -and- the only one who gives a damn about literature outside of Monika. I personally -do- enjoy reading, and by this point in my post, you probably can guess we use too much words similarly as well. This makes all the staring over the top of her book stuff and the reading the same book together stuff really cute (which also worked for Natsuki, her duality partner.)

 

However, she's the only girl that comes with a "satisfying" twist. Monika takes advantage of her cutting, which she does not out of emotional depression but as a need to release ecstasy. Monika hints at it being a sexual act, and if it is - ....well, I'm not going to kink shame. This is a sick demented mimicry of a visual novel. If a girl is displaying awful behavior because of -me- getting her all hot and bothered, then it's likely she's the one and that I'm playing the game right. Or......a total trap in Doki Doki's case. Either way. It works.

 

So yeah, I do have a particularly carnal approach to these games, and she's relatable. She also is a closet SAVAGE - bowing up to Monika by suggesting she kill herself (which isn't smart because Monika ain't going to let her slide with it.)

 

I like her shyness. I like her interests. I like HER (Crazy face Yuri (not the realistic human eyes Yuri) is WAY too sexy to be legal) because the game makes light of her assets and - because this game is a visual novel it's okay for the player to pursue what attracts him here. I like her ability to counter-punch if she needs to.

 

And given that 'The Portrait of Markov' is a book about a religious human experiment camp....she might be more down to clown with theists.

 

God, Yuri is hot.

 

[PokeFailure]

I don't have much to add to this but reading this was a treat. 

[BandorKitty]

Although I don’t disagree with anything you’ve already discussed, as everyone’s entitled to their opinion, especially on a game like this, I’d like to rank the girls my way now. Bear in mind I’m a girl and I’ve never thought to rank them before I saw your post, so I’m just writing down what comes to mind.

 

4. Pen Freak

 

Spoiler

Yuri Part 1 was probably the most like me personality wise, besides the cutting. I felt a little connection there. However, while her expressions were cute at times, her overall character design (for my tastes anyway) didn’t really draw me in. That’s just my opinion though. Yuri Part 2 however… GET AWAY FROM ME!!!!!!!! OH GOD WHY!!!???

 

Yeah, that kinda killed any like I had for her then.

 

3. Iddy Biddy Tiddy Commiddee Member No.1

 

Spoiler

Natsuki is so precious! XD Must protect! Honestly, Natsuki’s character design was my favourite. I’m a sucker for the cute little ones. I do agree that she kinda got “left out” in respect to the other characters. All we know is that her father is abusive, but we never really get any further than that. But I guess in a game where one character is sentient and rewrites the game according to her wishes, someone’s bound to miss out on some character development.

 

But hey, we get Buffsuki now XD

 

2. The one we like to hang around with

 

Spoiler

Another one I felt a serious connection with. On the outside I’m happy and always trying to solve other’s problems, but on the inside I’m locked in an eternal struggle about whether people really like me or they just pretend to because they don’t want to make me sad, and feel the people closest to me should spend their time elsewhere than with me. It’s like someone looked inside my head and decided to make a character out what they saw, and that character turned into Sayori. That scene, though, was thoroughly shocking even though I was expecting it. Added bonus for playing the game when I was sick in bed running a high fever and trying to keep my mind off the pain. Just like a fever dream.

 

1. Yes

 

Spoiler

 

Did you expect anything else? This woman is crazy and calculated XD and I love it. I like me some horror, and she certainly delivered. Fever dreams can only hope to live up to what she put me through. Plus, I really feel for her plight. Even though I hated her for driving the others to die, I think she redeemed herself by the end. Monika, may you RIP in peace…

 

Until I decide to bring you back with the Monika After Story mod again, you know  

 

 

[Felicity]

Natsuki best girl.

 

Swollsuki best meme.

 

Yuri best trash.

 

These are fighting words.

 

Fight me.

[Dreamy]

all dokis are best dokis

[Walpurgis]

For me Yuri > Monika > Sayori > Natsuki. 

Spoiler

I'll explain my ranking starting from the bottom. 

Natsuki is the last for me because she's too small and the whole loli thing and the sexualization of small girls deeply disgusts me.

Sayori is alright, I just don't find her attactive. 

Monika has a very deep and thoughful personality. I think that what she does in the game is completely understandable, anyone in her situation would probably end up like her in some degree. She is probably not my first because despite her efforts there isn't a route for her and the game doesn't let you know her the same way you get to interact with the other girls. 

Yuri. I find Yuri the overall most atractive. Her personality is probably the closest to mine and the one I like the most. Her issues throw me back a little bit, but she probably wouldn't have been that twisted if Monika hadn't messed her up. 

 

[Eviora]

I'll settle on saying this:

 

If you haven't watched the Game Theory episodes about this game, do.

[Chase]

@Eviora

 

Spoiler

I am a fan of Mr. Patrick's work and his dedication to make YouTube a place with more integrity. He and his wife's playthrough of Doki Doki was an interesting one at points and I was happy he was enough of a fan of the game to theorize on it.

 

For a while, I really did believe Yuri was Libitina too - out of the hope that the cast does come back in another Team Salvato title, but also because MatPat looked at almost everything the game had to offer and didn't hyperextend his theory beyond what the game and its files contained. It was reasonable.

 

However, I don't believe he's correct when it comes to who is the speaker in the Monika.chr data - and that's a pretty heavy part of his theory because of his assertion. In it, he makes the claim that the speaker is Monika because of the assumption that player "already knows her name" and the fact that Monika doesn't really die during the events of the game.....However, she -does- die at the very end of a normal playthrough.

 

If Sayori assumes the role of Club President in Act 4 and decides to trap you forever in the space classroom as Monika did due to having the same self-awareness, Monika, who is indeed somehow still alive after the player deletes her....for now.... will delete Sayori. The textbox that serves as the absent Monika reads "Goodbye, Sayori. Goodbye, [Player], Goodbye, Literature Club." It's here where everything goes dark - and Monika leaves you a note about the club's official disbanding and thanks the player for playing the game. Then Monika plays "Our Reality", Roll Credits.

 

When the screen goes dark, that's supposed to be an indicator that everything in the world was deleted by Monika. Including herself - having realized that there isn't any happiness to be had in the Literature Club, she decides it's time to go down with the ship. We know Monika is for the idea of suicide because in her Act 3 talk she mentions it being an easy out if things didn't go her way. With the player unable to play the dating sim the way they want after she tries to fix things - things officially don't go her way and she intervenes from the shadows by destroying everything that had a file.

 

There is one thing that doesn't have a file though - and they also don't have a character file, despite being a member of the full club. The protagonist.

 

• The protagonist is named by the player, so if HE is the speaker in the Monika.chr file - he would also qualify as someone the player "already knows".
• There are only two people who use regular English without some kind of stammer or girly laugh added in - Monika (who does Ahaha~, but probably wouldn't in this case), and the protagonist. Yuri stammers, Natsuki does that tsundere hesitation thing, and Sayori is all about noises and laughter.
• "Everyone else is dead" is more true if the protagonist is the speaker. If Monika is the speaker, she would be somewhat lying, because the protag can't be deleted. It's important to realize here that the protagonist's presence is restored (and made nicer even) after Monika recreates the game without herself in it in Act 4.
• The "Third Eye" thing could be one of the many references to 'The Portrait of Markov' merely as the redacted "Nothing is real?" poem, Yuri's summaries, and Monika's refusal to elaborate on the book is. It may or may not be a future game, but it was for sure something Dan Salvato worked on in the past. The player - if he were to also be a character in the Human Experiment Prison/Libitina/Portrait of Markov game, could also stand in for a generic protagonist without forcing the other members of the Literature Club to be reused assets. He also would have an understanding of the Third Eye because he is forced to read with Yuri in Act 2, even if pursuing Natsuki instead.
• "Time to be a fucking hero" is likely a reference to his earlier presumption that he "knows" how to fix Sayori's situation and fails her. Then a reference to merely watching Yuri die. Assuredly, it would be some reference to his hero complex. "Together" is probably symbiotic of the player-protagonist relationship in most games.
• His apology is likely for his inability to read the room as well as the player does and thus being insensitive to the girls' issues. It may also be for being a typical VN protagonist that just wants a girlfriend, which ends up giving the player the bad ending should the player also stick to one route. It also may be for failing to save anyone the first time and depriving the player of a good experience.

 

Finally, his advice to the player if he were the Monika.chr speaker - "If you go back and talk to them about what happened here, maybe you can prevent it from happening..."

 

This is the only hint Dan Salvato gives the player who takes the time to look for it in getting the "good" ending of the game. In order to earn that ending, the player has to find a CG art for every girl before the morning of the festival in Act 1 (or before Sayori is found dead.) Doing so makes Act 4 Sayori happy and she doesn't go insane because you did your part in getting to know everyone in the club. It also results in a thank you for playing letter from Dan Salvato rather than Monika's notice of the club ending.

 

As much as I would -love- to see these characters in Team Salvato's next work, and how scary yet attractive it would be for Libitina to be best girl..., the evidence seems to point to this being a one-off.

 

....there is that "2018!" bit at the very end of the speech that is strange. Is it possibly just a self-plug from Dan or does it matter to the rest of the speech?

 

[Eviora]

@Chase

 

Spoiler

Yuri may or may not be Libitina; I don't know. I find most of the fun in speculation. MatPat is almost always wrong in the theories I've watched that focus on future events, but that doesn't make it any less fun to follow his reasoning. To me, it's more about having my mind possibly blown than him being right.

 

That said, there's one strong reason we should expect more from this series that you haven't addressed - a reason that, like the game itself, is most compelling because it goes meta. A really simple reason. Money.

 

Team Salvato released a free game on Steam that gained widespread attention throughout the gaming community. Their ultimate goal is probably to make a profit, and even if it wasn't initially, it's pretty clear now that there's demand for more content like this. In their position, wouldn't you want to capitalize on that success, whether that was your original intention or not? For many people, that sort of thing is "the dream." Any game produced by Team Salvato is now going to receive a lot of attention, whether it's directly connected to DDLC or not, but don't you think it would be most compelling if there were some link? I do. That's why I think this is not the end for at least some of the game's characters. If so many people want more, it's in everyone's interest to satisfy them!

 

[Chase]

@Eviora

 

Spoiler

I absolutely do believe one should make as much money as possible on successful product, and I didn't contest that reason specifically because I don't have access to Team Salvato's drawing board.

---

I do however think that there's another side of the story. MatPat also has a video on the Film Theorists' channel about Star Wars: The Last Jedi and why it's one of the most polarizing Star Wars movies. He accepts responsibility as a theorist for feeding into the expectation game Star Wars fans were playing about various aspects of the plot following Episode 7 and how Rian Johnson, by not meeting the theorists where they wanted, may have taken some unfair criticism for his film.

 

Essentially, if this were to translate to Team Salvato's next game, it wouldn't be as much of a success if they take the risk of -NOT- appealing to fans of Doki Doki. Theorizing some things - such as Yuri being the antagonist of the next game - handcuffs the developers in the creativity aisle where they may have wanted to try something new. Will the game flop because it doesn't make the newly gain fandom happy?

 

If anything - I feel like Doki Doki also already makes Team Salvato money through their online store. (I might have to get that 'Yuri Unhinged' poster as my first act of weebdom outside of the internet.) and I would personally prefer Team Salvato makes the game that they -want- to make rather than one that is saddled with my expectations of having my waifu be the final boss.

---

That being said - I do think it would be the smarter play to find some way to drop DDLC in, either through character traits or easter eggs or if they WANT to putting them into their next game out right - and I personally would love to see it happen. If they do it - GREAT! If not - well, I think I'm a happy customer and I can't wait to see what other........

 

......terrifying experience......they put me through......

 

..............................suddenly, I don't feel so well.

 

[Eviora]

@Chase

 

Spoiler

I'm not saying Team Salvato should bend beneath the fandom's will. Personally, I think they ought to write the story they want to write. If MatPat predicted correctly, they shouldn't back down just because someone stumbled across the truth. Any sufficiently large fandom will produce theories in spades, and some are bound to be right. You can't really write an effective multi-volume story if you back down from your plan every time anyone uncovered something big.

 

If Team Salvato already has another story in mind, they should stick with that, too. I'm eager to see what they'll come up with!

 

If they weren't expecting to have to make a sequel and decided to do that, then I guess they should go with whatever story is most appealing to them, regardless of fan expectations. That's an intrinsic risk one must take when creating a story. People become invested in it, and they may be unhappy if things don't turn out the way they want. It can't be helped. So it's better not to worry about that and write the story you want to write!

 

By the way, I loved The Last Jedi, despite its flaws. Its willingness not to be a carbon copy of ESB was a welcome surprise. If it had mostly been a copy, I bet many people would have lost interest in the next one.